Need ultimate TT advice

[royphil345]

If you're just recording to a computer... Why not go the vintage quartz-locked direct-drive route? Should be able to find a heavier model on eBay for less than $100.00. You won't be getting a Technics MKII or Denon at that price, you'll have to look for a "sleeper". I'm getting fantastic results with an old DD. Most of the older, heavier models have very good specs and are only dissed by audiophiles because of some "finer points". You may even be able to find something with a decent cartridge you can still get a stylus for. Or... There's the AT-95, Denon DL-110, Ortofon OM 20 depending on what you want to spend. Only problem is the ability of the average idiot on eBay to ship a table without damaging it. I've received a couple damaged tables before I got the good one. If you e-mail a seller asking if they're willing to pack well, remove or secure the counterweight and platter so they don't come off and smash things during shipping... I've even offered to pay extra... The average answer back is like...duh... maybe... Had one guy promise to do it, then he just threw it in a box with no packing material at all, smashed it, and refused a refund. Very sad. Seems the average idiot thinks they can throw a turntable in a box and expect it get somewhere safely. Or they just don't care... Pretty sure the one guy who broke his promise just scammed me and the table was broken to begin with. My new eBay rules are... Open a PayPal account where they don't have access to your checking account. Insist on insured shipping (UPS has automatic insurance up to $100.00 or something like that, USPS insurance is cheap, FedEx I'm not sure...) or don't buy. Pay by PayPal with a credit card that will reverse PayPal charges if necessary (check with your company, some won't). That way, YOU decide if and when you get a refund...

jrhymeammo...

The easiest way to record on a stand-alone would probably be to just record album sides as tracks on a rewritable disc. Then, rip the disc into your computer as CD quality wave, separate the tracks using software and burn the final disk. Shouldn't be any loss of sound-quality this way. Trying to separate tracks in real-time would probably not be easy and would get old fast. Betting there would be some kind delay or "break" in the music as well. Editing on the computer and burning "disc at once", you can quickly achieve completely seamless track changes.

CD Wave Editor is a program made just for the purpose of splitting tracks. Makes the job very quick and easy compared to using a full-blown editor for just splitting tracks. Also has a built-in recorder for those that do the recording on the PC. Have to adjust the recording level in the Windows Mixer yourself... http://www.filelodge.com/files/room4...3/CDWAV162.zip Click where it says "click here" to download the program. It is for Windows by the way... Have used it in Windows 98 and XP with excellent results. A real time saver!!!

[jrhymeammo]

CD Wave Editor is a program made just for the purpose of splitting tracks. Makes the job very quick and easy compared to using a full-blown editor for just splitting tracks. Also has a built-in recorder for those that do the recording on the PC. Have to adjust the recording level in the Windows Mixer yourself... http://www.filelodge.com/files/room4...3/CDWAV162.zip Click where it says "click here" to download the program. It is for Windows by the way... Have used it in Windows 98 and XP with excellent results. A real time saver!!!

Thanks royphil345, I'll be sure to check it out this weekend.

JRA

[JoeE SP9]

The last thing I want is to get into vinyl. Gads! I've got enough to fussy and worry about with digital. Heaven forbid that I get interested in the former: what I'm trying to do is get rid of it once and for all. (LPs: die, die, die ...)

Get thee behind me, Satan!!!

Come on Feanor you should know old farts like myself will never let vinyl die. Besides, there is a whole slew of vinyl in my collection that will never be sold on CD. Most LP's are black not red anyway.

[Feanor]

Come on Feanor you should know old farts like myself will never let vinyl die. Besides, there is a whole slew of vinyl in my collection that will never be sold on CD. Most LP's are black not red anyway.

Yeah, vinyl will never die. But for me it's on its way out.

Our LP collection is quite small: mine total about 200 and my wife has maybe another 50-60. Of these, maybe 150 are all we care about, so its worth it to record them to digital.

Yes, I have quite a few that are not currently available on CD. This is one reason I want to record them; the other is I'm too cheap to layout $20 a piece for those that are on CD.

[jrhymeammo]

Come on Feanor you should know old farts like myself will never let vinyl die.

Old people do get it right once in a while.

[JoeE SP9]

Old people do get it right once in a while.

The reason we're old is because we do get it right!

[jrhymeammo]

Always appreciate your humor, Joe.

I still think Feanor should get a MMF-5. I stated that they can be pickedup for about $400, but the price of $300 seems to be more common. Old DD TT's are pretty cheap, but I think he would need to get a stobe disc and test TT before he buys them. But that's not possible thru the ebay....

JRA

[JoeE SP9]

Two of my audio buddies have MMF's a 5 and a 3.1. Both of them are very happy with their choices.

[Feanor]

Yes, I'm look for the ultimate TT; my ultimate TT, that is.

My old linear tracking Realistic, (model number is POS, I believe), has audible flutter most of the time, so it's useless. What I want to do is record my whole vinyl collection to computer files, but the Realistic won't do it unfortunately.

What I'd like to do is get a used, eBay-special, good enough to play my LPs to a minimal standard for recording, then sell it. Any advice on TTs of this calibre?

Pictured below, my vinylphile buddies, a vintage Technics SL-2D, for which I paid a wooping $86 on eBay.

Yes, yes, I know: it is the antithesis of all your wlll-intentioned advice, but if it works at all, it will probably suffice for me. The cartridge is a Realistic R1000EDT which I probably swap for something a little better; I have my eye on Sonus Blue currently on auction. The Sonus is NOS, probably dating back from era of the Technics itself, say the late 70's.

Having sold my old Apt Holman somewhat prematurely as it turns out, I had to get a phono preamp. Grudgingly, I laid out $100 for a brand-new Cambridge 540P.
...

[Dusty Chalk]

On the bright side, you will probably succeed in avoiding getting addicted to analog.

[royphil345]

Congrats!!! Hope the seller gets it to you safely. If you convinced him to remove or secure the platter, your chances are pretty good... Some people just won't listen though... The USPS seems particularly hard on packages. I've had better luck with UPS or Fed Ex.

I think it should be all you need to get decent recordings on a computer. The Cambridge phono stage seems to be very well liked by those who've heard it.

I probably wouldn't buy a NOS cartridge and stylus. Cartridge... maybe. The suspensions on styli tend to harden and deteriorate over time causing tracking problems. I would only buy an older cartridge if I could get a brand new stylus for it.

There's nothing wrong with these...

http://www.lpgear.com/Merchant2/merc...ct_Code=ATC95E

http://www.needledoctor.com/Denon-DL...&category=1110

http://www.lpgear.com/Merchant2/merc...t_Code=OROM20S

[jrhymeammo]

Way to go Feanor!!!! I think you've made a right choice. I've never owned any technics, but mate it with a good cart you will fall in love with analog again.

And how do you plan to clean your LPs?
Do you plan on listening to records thru your system, or straight to your PC?

jra

edit: One question in general. What's the point of having strobe function if you can't adjust it? I ssay this.cuz that SL doesnt look like it has pitch control/

[royphil345]

The pitch control is the black wheel towards the left. Just the edge sticks out. He'll need it because that table isn't quartz-locked. Some direct drives without it tend to drift in speed or be load sensitive. Think the Technics were pretty good in that respect due to robust motors. Drift wouldn't be as bad as flutter anyway... The Technics always had decent wow and flutter specs.

My table is quartz-locked and has a strobe with no pitch control. The strobe is just there so you can look at it every once in awhile and say... perfect... LOL

[Feanor]

...
I probably wouldn't buy a NOS cartridge and stylus. Cartridge... maybe. The suspensions on styli tend to harden and deteriorate over time causing tracking problems. I would only buy an older cartridge if I could get a brand new stylus for it.

...

Roy, I dare say you're right about old styli. You suggestions look good.

[Feanor]

On the bright side, you will probably succeed in avoiding getting addicted to analog.

Nope -- I don't want to become addicted to vinyl. Bear in mind my hi-fi days date way back to before digital. I have no very fond memories of setting up turntables or fiddling with LPs. I know some people love those rituals, but it ain't me, Dusty.

[jrhymeammo]

What made you want to spend $110 on a Grado cart? I'm pretty sure you can do better. I would like to hear this if you care to comment.

Your Buddy,

JRA

[royphil345]

Hey Feanor...

Don't skimp on the cable to the sound card. I finally got my analog rig performing pretty well. Been starting to mess around with recording on the computer. I've been using a stereo 1/8" to RCAs cable that looked a little better than "in the box" cables. Figured I wouldn't be getting the best recordings on the computer anyway, so I've been slow to replace it. Made a cable out of a Radio Shack plug and extra Monster 100 interconnects today. HUGE difference. Much fuller / more open sound. Old cable was obviously anemic, compressed, lacked bass in comparison. Think the computer recordings are a little better than what I could do with my cassette deck now. Not very neat looking with those big cables connected to the little plug though. Couldn't use the cover for the plug. Was able to get a few wraps of tape around the positive terminals and a big piece of heat-shrink over the whole thing.

The Monster 200 1/8" to RCAs cable looks decent, a little pricey. I've tried the Monster 400 cables and thought they sounded horrible. Would avoid the one made from the 400 cables.

...Ignore all this if you're lucky enough to have RCA connectors on your sound card... LOL

[Feanor]

What made you want to spend $110 on a Grado cart? I'm pretty sure you can do better. I would like to hear this if you care to comment.

Your Buddy,

JRA

I own the Grado already; it is a P-mount attached to my old Rat Shack that quit. I have ordered a P to 1/2 inch adaptor, ($3), from Needle Doctor. If that doesn't work, I'll be looking for other options, but I'm a cheapskate when it comes to vinyl.

Another option is a Signet, (by Audio Technica), TK7E I own with a usable stylus. Replacement stylii are available for it from LP Gear supposedly, although they might be pretty old stock.

[Feanor]

Hey Feanor...

Don't skimp on the cable. ...

...Ignore all this if you're lucky enough to have RCA connectors on your sound card... LOL

I agree that very cheap interconnects need to be replaced, even though I don't believe in spending a fortune; (recently I've been buying Blue Jeans Cable interconnects when I need more).

Yes, I'm lucky: my sound card, an external M-Audio Audiophile USB, has RCA inputs and I'll be running some pretty good Kimber cables to it from my Cambride phono preamp. The turntable leads, on the other hand, are real crap but unfortunately they are not disconectable and I don't foresee modifying the TT. See my system at the link below; it shows the phono pre connected to the Adcom preamp, but I'll change this for recording.

[royphil345]

You are lucky to be able to use standard interconnects!!!

I spend even less on them than you... Although, the "basic" ones seem too thin to be of any use at all these days. "Upgrade" to the lowly Monster 100 made a dramatic difference in the quality of recordings. Replaced the hard-wired interconnects on my turntable awhile back with the same Monster 100s. Did open things up slightly, but the interconnects on the old Sony weren't that bad (thicker conductors than I expected), so the difference wasn't as dramatic. Just figured I'd give you a "heads up" in case you had to do the 1/8" plug to RCAs thing... Good cables of this type are pricey and hard to come by. Alot of people probably settle on using garbage ones like I did for TOO long and get poor results without knowing why...

I've just been recording from a tape out on my preamp for the sake of convenience (never have to switch connections around). Perfect recording levels and good results. Not sure if going straight from the phono stage to the computer would work out better or worse (I may have to try it now... LOL). I guess since you use a laptop, something has to be plugged in each time you do your recording anyway. Wouldn't matter which way you go unless one way sounds better...

All your new stuff should be arriving and coming together... Have fun!!! Hope it all works out well for you!!!

[jrhymeammo]

Cool beans. It doesnt sound like you have changed you mind about vinyl. I think you'll make someone else very happy once you recorded all of your vinyl.

JRA

[Feanor]

Cool beans. It doesnt sound like you have changed you mind about vinyl. I think you'll make someone else very happy once you recorded all of your vinyl.

JRA

You know I'm not trying to change other people's opinion, but mine is that my digitized LP content will sound essentially indentical to the original. That being the case, I'd like to release the space now occupied by my equipment and the LPs themselves.


Maybe that will make some others happy. Bonus!!

Here's a deal: I have maybe 200 LPs. Most are in very good to excellant condition; a few could do with cleaning. If someone will agree to buy at least 100 LPs from me, s/he can have them for $2 a piece plus shipping.

[royphil345]

You know I'm not trying to change other people's opinion, but mine is that my digitized LP content will sound essentially indentical to the original.

Ehhhhh.... not quite there yet... I'm working on it...

I think even with a stand-alone CD recorder you'd end up losing some of vinyl's benefits while capturing some of it's weaknesses. The results I'm getting are very acceptable though. Still not quite done tweaking...

Haven't burned anything do a disk and played it back yet after my recent improvements. Just playing test recordings back with Windows Media Player. It's been my experience that sound cards generally record better than they play back, and that the recordings sound a little better when burned to disk and played back on a standard CD player. Have made some pretty nice CDs from vinyl using the computer in the past, but nothing that sounds quite as good as the original vinyl... YET... LOL Could only do better with my new cable...

[jrhymeammo]

Bill, if you can project me some good idea to what you have, and if i like it, I will defitnetlyu consider it,.

[Feanor]

Bill, if you can project me some good idea to what you have, and if i like it, I will defitnetlyu consider it,.

I have many hours of recording ahead of me before I'll be parting with them.

2/3 of the collection is classical; the rest mainly '70's folk and folk rock, (Baez, etc.).