Low-Mid Range Turntable Options

[blackraven]

Both the MH 5.1 and P2 are excellent turntables. Pair either one with a good cartridge and you wont be sorry.

chck out this web site www.audiotools.com/lp2.html

[O'Shag]

JB3838,

Have I found a turntable for you!

Its on ebay - I would buy it myself but have too much already. Its a Tannoy/Micro Seiki table, the top of the line in the series. Besides the fact that its drop deap gorgeous, its also a good table. I mean drop dead gorgeous - I'm so tempted. It's at $249.00 right now, and if you can get it at anywhere near that price, you'll have a bargain - BIG TIME! Let me know what you think...

[jb3838]

Thanks guys, O'Shag the Tannoy/Micro Seiki is beautiful! Unfortunately, the cost has risen to $362. I'd really like to spend around $300 including shipping,txes, etc. However, I'm beginning to wonder if that's realistic. I'd much rather have a P2 or 5.1 than the base models and after a few weeks of monitoring it seems $375 is going to be the minimum. While it is a long term investment, it seems out of line for someone just putting together a starter system with a fledgling vinyl collection. Any ideas? Thanks.

[O'Shag]

Unfortunately, JB, life isn't fair and things don't often make sense to the normally adjusted person. Getting into high quality vinyl reproduction is exceedingly dangerous, because its a drug. I started out 'trying' vinyl with a modest setup, not knowing that what I heard would captivate me so much I now own a $7000 table and $900 cartridge - and that doesn't even include my phonostage; and I won't scare you by how much that cost me. A rega is always a good start on an extreme budget. At least it'll give you a taste - although you won't hear hte absolute magic of a higher end vinyl system - truly mindblowing. Consider this. I don't know if your very young, but if your old enough to remember being in a discoteque or club back in the 80's and 90's, you'll notice that the amazing sound was coming from a turntable. DJs chose tables because they sounded better. I've gone to a few holiday bashes at the large pub/club here locally (The King's Head in Santa Monica). Our previous DJ - DJ Danny (who DJs for stars including David and Victoria Beckham) uses vinyl exclusively. Well, these recent holiday bashes I talked about he was too busy to DJ. Instead, we now have Stubbsy, along with his hi-tech rig with CDs - no analogue vinyl. To cut a long story short, he drove all of us of the 'dance floor', as drunk as we were - because the system sounded like shyte. Save and get a decent $1000 used turntable rig mate - its worth it believe me.

[Luvin Da Blues]

Save and get a decent $1000 used turntable rig mate - its worth it believe me.

Good advice Shaggy, I've got 'bout $1000 into my rig now and I feel I am just staring to get the "magic". I pieced it together from seperate base, arm, cart and tweaks. Of course, one needs to spend the time and effort in the setup phase to get the most out of it.

[jrhymeammo]

Good advice Shaggy, I've got 'bout $1000 into my rig now and I feel I am just staring to get the "magic". I pieced it together from seperate base, arm, cart and tweaks. Of course, one needs to spend the time and effort in the setup phase to get the most out of it.

I have to keep going against this.

If you must have your 2nd hand TT shipped to your home. Then make sure he/she has original box and packing. Do you really want 5~20 pound platter sliding loose inside with some Ebony wood tonearm, motor and pulley?

Everyone promises to pack well. Be sure to have them take pictures of how it's packed... Do I not make sense?

JRA

[Luvin Da Blues]

JRA, Ya got to live on the edge man.

Joking, I found my vintage MS TT online "new in the box". Apparently it was only opened to take pics of it. Judging by the new condition, I would have to agree.

Not sure if I would take the chance w/o the original packing.

[O'Shag]

Thanks LDB. What arm and cartridge are you using. Also what phonostage?

JRy, Your right about the shipping aspect. Tables are a lot harder to ship right. I've read some horror stories. Best to pick up in person if local. But if you deal with someone in the know, they will have the savvy to package it correctly i.e. remove the platter / remove the arm etc.

[Luvin Da Blues]

Thanks LDB. What arm and cartridge are you using. Also what phonostage?

I'm using the Rega RB250 mated to an AT440MLa. According to the reviews and discussions I've had both of these out perform their prices class. I also have added the Expressimo VTA adjuster and the Michell Tecnoweight. The upgraded weight really started to extract a bit of the "magic" from the vinyl that all the waxheads are talkin 'bout.

Next I want to upgrade my systems amp section but after that I'll be looking at acquiring a better TT plinth and cartridge. My friends and coworkers think I'm nuts spending around $1000 on a TT, they all think vinyl is dead, I'm thinkin the $2500 to $3500 range is where I'll probably settle in at.

Right now I'm just using the Denons phono preamp and from what I'm gathering, I would have to spend a bit on an outboard phono stage to improve it. Comments????

And thanks for askin'.

[O'Shag]

Your co-workers are right, we are nuts!

I'm not familiar with the Denon phonostage LDB. Audio Technica makes a good cartridge thats good value for money, and I was just reading that your model has two magnets as opposed to one. I'm sure it sound v. good.

The Rega RB250 does have a very good reputation. It can be upgraded, if you are interested, by a company called Origin Live - out of the UK -. I've read some testimonials and it seems that it brings the performance of the arm to another level. Have you heard of the Alphason HR100S or HR100MCS. These arms are pure titanium and beautifully crafted. I've found these arms are very close in performance to the SME V. The SME V has the edge in absolute bass weight and overall smoothness. But the Alphason is amazingly detailed, quick, and robust sounding. When I had my Mission 775SM with the Alphason, It sounded excellent in every way. The Alphasons are rare, but can be had on the used market for a ridiculously low price considering there performance level (about $500 I've seen them for). But whats really interesting is I've seen these on Townshend's The Rock turntable a few times on the used market for about $1000.
As far as phonstages, check out the Graham Slee Gram Amp 2. New it costs $399.00. For MM i.e. the audio technica, its one of the best sounding/best bargain phonstages on the market. You may even be able to pick one up second hand for $150 or so. It all costs so much money when you add it all up..oh well.

[Luvin Da Blues]

Your co-workers are right, we are nuts!

I'm not familiar with the Denon phonostage LDB. Audio Technica makes a good cartridge, and I was just reading that your model has two magnets as opposed to one.

The Rega RB250 does have a good reputation, and can be upgraded to a cracking good tonearm by a company called Origin Live - out of the UK -. I've read some testimonials and it seems that it brings the performance of the arm to another level. Have you heard of the Alphason HR100S or HR100MCS. These arms are pure titanium and beautifully crafted. I've found these arms are very very close in performance to the SME V. The SME V probably has the edge in absolute bass weight and overall smoothness. But the Alphason is amazingly detailed and robust sounding. They are rare. But whats really interesting is I've seen these on Townshend's The Rock turntable a few times on the used market for about $1000.
It all costs so much money when you add it all up..oh well.

..and well worth it IMO.

Thanks Shag, It'll be next year B4 I get around to the TT upgrades again. I need new power amps first, then a new preamp, then new speakers, then.......

BTW, do you know if anyone makes a preamp with a BI X-overs to run amps for Bi-amping?

[jrhymeammo]

t'll be next year B4 I get around to the TT upgrades again.

But we just got to 2008!! Didnt you make a new year's resolution to be more positive?
But beriously, unless you find your TT to be noisy, I dont see why you would want to get a new TT before other gears. You already got a great arm, so I think you would benefit more with a differnt cart or phono stage. From what I hear, you seem to be very happy with your gears. Enjoy your tunes.

NP: Art Blakey - The Big Beat

[Luvin Da Blues]

But we just got to 2008!! Didnt you make a new year's resolution to be more positive?
But beriously, unless you find your TT to be noisy, I dont see why you would want to get a new TT before other gears. You already got a great arm, so I think you would benefit more with a differnt cart or phono stage. From what I hear, you seem to be very happy with your gears. Enjoy your tunes.

NP: Art Blakey - The Big Beat

Hey Kazoo,

Not noisy at all, in fact it's dead silent. I'm luvin every second it's playin sumptin. I want to upgrade my electronics and speakers before I get back to more TT upgrades tho. I'm thinking of a dedicated 2ch setup and keep the Denon/PSB setup for HT. Cheers

[O'Shag]

Hi LDB,

I don't know of any preamp with built in electronic crossovers. An inexpensive solution is to get a Rane electronic Crossover (they're a decent price - especially used - and well-made) You'll have to fork out for two extra pairs of interconnects, and then run the Rane electronic x-over between the preamp and amps. But you could do passive biamping with a preamp that has two sets of main outputs. The trick is finding a preamp with a power supply robust enough to drive to main outputs effectively.

What do you think your budget for gear will be for this year LDB, and what are you looking to speand on amps and preamps?

[jrhymeammo]

Hey Shaggy, you gotta PM.

[Luvin Da Blues]

What do you think your budget for gear will be for this year LDB, and what are you looking to spend on amps and preamps?

What I'm looking to do is raise or build a system to get to the "next" level. Ultimately the goal is to get into a hi-end rig (or close to) but this will have to be done in stages.

With my limited knowledge I thought the next logical step would be to upgrade the power section. Since I listen in Pure Direct mode anyway, I thought the Denon could suffice as a preamp for a while until I can afford a decent preamp. Comments?

Anyway,to answer your question, I would like to keep the budget for a power amp(s) to around $2K this time. Of course if a hot deal came into my world I would have to consider more. I will look at excellent condition used items for the right price. Cheers

[O'Shag]

Hi LDB,

If your more of a 2-channel guy, then the preamp is the first thing to start with. If you want something new, that there may be surplus stock of, check out the Marsh Design P2000T. I've seen them go for as low as $550.00 from a surplus supply. Its a darn good little preamp. A friend of mine has both the pre and amp, and I was suprised how refined they sounded for the money; definitely a taste of the high-end. Can't remember if its got a phono section, but even as just a linestage it competes well with much pricier fare. I've seen the Marsh Design amp that matches (costs about 3k new) go for about $675. If your looking to get a very serious upgrade at a great price LDB this is a way to go. You'll get a first rate preamp and power amp with serious, hi-quality power for 1,300.00 Thats a lot of quality for 1.3k mate. It'll kick the pants off ANY receiver, and in fact will probably best alll but the most expensive multi-channel processor. If I was currently in the market at this budget, this would be my pick, without hesitation.

check out this url: http://www.positive-feedback.com/Issue3/marsh200.htm

[Luvin Da Blues]

O'Shag,

These sound real interesting. There was one review on Audiogon questioning the reliability, have you any thought on this?

I have checked prices online a don't see anything around the $700 each figure. I would seriously consider these for that price if the reliability thing is wrong. Would you have any ideas of the "houses" that are discounting these?

I would need a phono pre to go with this but the money I would save more than makes up for this. Any recommendations for a pre considering my present rig (keep in mind that I will be upgrading the TT setup sometime in the future).

I guess I need to find a Western Canada or NW dealer to audition them.

Cheers, LDB

[O'Shag]

Hi LDB,

I'll do some further checking for you. Sometimes you have to wait for a deal to come up. I cannot comment on reliability, but it stands to reason that the guy who built these - Richard Marsh - supplying many of the high-end mfrs with his capacitors, resistors etc etc, will put a sound component together. I think whats so attractive about the Marsh gear is that it is made from the best parts. The chassis is not nearly as fancy or heavy weight as the 'big boys', but inside it does have an excellent design and terrific components. If you get the right pre w/ phono (I hope this has one), your Micro Seiki /Rega /Audio Technica combo will definitely come to life as you've never heard it. I'll check some more when I get a moment - cheers LDB.

[Luvin Da Blues]

Shagman,

I found a demo power amp unit today for $800. Just waiting to see if he can source the preamp for it.

Thanks,
LDB

[O'Shag]

Blues - As long as its the A400s and not the A200. the 400 is the one to have. I did check on the 2000T preamp, and unfortunately it is only a line stage. So how about this...

Another option you may consider is a bit more expensive, and involves older gear, but incorporates an excellent - I mean excellent phono stage, and will give you a truely magic sound. First the preamp: Audio Research SP6E or SP9MKII (I think). You'll be a little above 1k and are more likely to find the second one. Just to give you an idea of the quality; back in 1980, the SP6E was $3,495.00. That was a lot of dough back then. I do own the SP6E, and it has a truly magical sound. The SP6E uses 6 tubes. It is very similar to the SP10, except that it incorporates the power supply in the same chassis as the audio components - whereas the SP10/SP11 have seperate power supplies. I've heard both extensively, and there is virtually no difference at all between them. The SP10/SP11 is probablty a tad more neutral, with the SP6E leaning very slightly to the warm side.

The Amp. You want a future classic? How about the Audio Research Classic 60. What a honey of an amp. It is a hybrid, with an all-fet input stage but the rest is pure tube running in triode. These can be had for about $1,200. You won't need an extra powercord in either case becuase its built in to both units - and thy're high quality. If you elect to spend around the $2,200 for this pair, mate you will have magic. The Classic series by ARC are so fantastic becuase they have the beauty of the triode tube sound but with excellent control and bass performance. Don't judge the amp by the 'watts' rating. The energy storage or joules rating is very high, meaning they deliver serious current to power-hungry speakers. Do some research on these mate.

[Luvin Da Blues]

O'Shag,

Thanks for this and I will be looking at the AR gear also. Having said that, I do like what I'm reading and hearing about the Marsh gear tho. I don't mind spending a little more if the improvements are worth it.

Cheers, LDB

[O'Shag]

The Marsh is excellent, of that theres no mistake. Its the proverbial wolf in sheeps clothing or 'giant killer' if you will. Again LDB, the amp is the A400 not the A200. If the guy is trying to sell you an A200 for $800, you can do better. If seen the A400 go for $675.00Also important to consider that the preamp is only linestage and you'll need a phonostage whcih'll run another 300-400 for anything decent- thats the only drawback. By the way, if you look closely at the knobs on the preamp, you'll notice that they're the same as the ones used by audio research.

Cheers Mate

[Luvin Da Blues]

The Marsh is excellent, of that theres no mistake. Its the proverbial wolf in sheeps clothing or 'giant killer' if you will. Again LDB, the amp is the A400 not the A200. If the guy is trying to sell you an A200 for $800, you can do better. If seen the A400 go for $675.00Also important to consider that the preamp is only linestage and you'll need a phonostage whcih'll run another 300-400 for anything decent- thats the only drawback. By the way, if you look closely at the knobs on the preamp, you'll notice that they're the same as the ones used by audio research.

Cheers Mate

Howdy Shag,

Just pulled the plug on the Marsh p200b preamp which has balance outputs ($750). I might pick up the a200s (I have him down to $700) to get me going for now and pick up the a400s later and run in biamped mode. He also has a Pro-ject Phono Box and will give me a deal on this also.

Thanks for your time and effort with this mon ami.

Cheers,

LDB

[O'Shag]

My word LDB - that was quick work!! You are in for a treat. The preamp is definitely a very heavy hitter for its price. It is a sound choice to go for the balanced option, because balanced drive usually delivers better sound overall in my experience - there are a few exceptions though. I feel a little unsure abou the A200s because all of the raves I've heard are for the A400S. I've just seen an A400s on audiogon and the asking price for 1350 obo. His price is too high. Mate Ive seen that amp sell for around $700 - granted thats a steal but nevertheless... If you would reach out to the Audiogon seller and offer him $800 or $850 tops - its worth paying $150 more for the big gun. I would urge you not to jump immediately on the A200 even for $700. You can afford to wait a few more weeks to see if you can nab a deal on the real giant killer - the A400s.
Cheers mate. Let me know when it arrives.