Grado Sonata 1 Low Output

I have enjoyed the Grado sound in the past and I am thinking abot the Grado Sonata. I was wondering if anyone had heard this cartridge or had any real experience with one.

I currently own two moving coil cartridges from Benz and AT along with an Ortofon OM20 and a Grado Red. I like the Grado Red but the highs are not what I would like. I have read where the fixed stylus/wood body Grados are a step or two above the other plastic bodied Grados. Since I switched to the Michell Technoweight Grados track well in the RB250 tonearm. Just thinking at this point.

I am going to send the Benz to Soundsmith for the ruby cantilever and line contact diamond upgrade.

I can see how the Sonata would be a good consideration. Someday I figure I'll get one of those. I have too many cartridges at the moment, but I might start trying to sell them.

I've always been interested but have heard they have problems with hums....

When I bought my MMF-5 (as a demo from a dealer) they had put a Grado Red on it. It was the loudest hum of any component that I've ever experienced in my system.

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Originally Posted by 02audionoob

When I bought my MMF-5 (as a demo from a dealer) they had put a Grado Red on it. It was the loudest hum of any component that I've ever experienced in my system.

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Did you have a metal platter?

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Originally Posted by frenchmon

Did you have a metal platter?

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It was a glass platter. The metal platters aren't what makes the Grado cartridges hum on these turntables - it's the motor...120V motors, especially.

So by the 7.1 having the motor where it is....I may be ok with a Grado? I suppose I will. I did read a review with a guy who had a Grado Sonata on his 7.1 but he did not like the cart on his table. he never mentioned a hum...only he said it was not what he wanted. The review is on the Needle Doctor web site.

I would imagine you will not have a problem of any great significance. The position of the motor on the MMF-5 and similar models is indeed a little unfortunate, since the cartridge gets closer and closer to the motor while the record plays. I would think the MMF-7.1's motor location does help.

Also, the MMF-5 was straight 120V with no wall wart. I think the low-voltage wall wart dramatically reduces the field around the motor. Your odds of a problem are probably quite low. AK member Puma Cat said a Sonata hummed on his Rega P5, which does use a low voltage motor (not 120V). But I don't know if it was this issue with AC motors or if he had a ground loop issue.

Grados have a low hum on Rega tables but it is slight and the music easily masks it.

I always loved what Grado cartridges can do for the female voice.

Now that I have done a little research on the Sonata .... JohnMichael, I am now in the Vally of decision concerning a Cart. I was all set for the 2M Balck when the time comes, but now the Grado Reference Sonata 1 has entered the picture. It seem there is a sophistication with that cart...for what reasons I still dont know. They seem to have a large following.

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Originally Posted by frenchmon

Now that I have done a little research on the Sonata .... JohnMichael, I am now in the Vally of decision concerning a Cart. I was all set for the 2M Balck when the time comes, but now the Grado Reference Sonata 1 has entered the picture. It seem there is a sophistication with that cart...for what reasons I still dont know. They seem to have a large following.

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I want the low output version for use with the Graham Slee Fanfare phono preamp. I am in the mood for lush and romantic and if the mood changes I still will have the Ortofon OM20, AT F7 and the Benz Gold. I will say this will be the most I have ever spent on a phono cartridge. Back in the days when I bought my first marble based Kenwood they would throw in a Shure M91ED for a penny. I also do not want to spend a large amount of money on something I might easily break. No $15,000 cartridges for me and I do not have the level of equipment to justify one at that price.

I do get a kick out of one manufacturer who makes a cartridge for almost $1,000 and is has a conical stylus. To me that is insane when you can buy a $100 Ortofon with an elliptical stylus.

Did you get my PM?

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Originally Posted by frenchmon

Did you get my PM?

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I did read it after I read this post.

The Sonata is on it's way. This will be my first wood bodied cartridge. This will be my first Grado without an interchangeable stylus. Rega, Clearaudio, Bang&Olufsen and Soundsmith all build IM or MM cartridges with fixed styli. It has been years since I have used my B&O RX2 so I have no memory as to the sound of the cartridge. This will be my first low output fixed coil cartridge. As an audio/analog geek I am quite excited.

Well this audio/analog geek is very interested in your opinion of that cart....I think I've narrowed it down to the Sonata and the 2M Black. I've seen review describing the Black as being lush and romantic as well. If I can get a deal from my dealer who carries both carts, I may purchase one and then some time later purchase the other. Man I have to purchase a phono amp, speed box, and lastly maybe new speakers as well as the cart(s) and then I am done for a while.

The Grado arrives Monday. I am on vacation until Wednesday so I will have two days to install it and enjoy first listen.

I'll be looking forward to your thoughts on it. I have considered one in recent times.

According to USPS tracking the Grado will be delivered today.

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Originally Posted by JohnMichael

According to USPS tracking the Grado will be delivered today.

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Great...but then I guess you will have break in time.

The Sonata is here and mounted. I was a little nervous installing a cartridge without a replaceable stylus. Since this was the most I had spent on a cartridge I did not want to trash the cantilever. I had paid under $300 for the AT F7 and The Benz MC Gold. The Gold I sent in a trade and received a good discount.

The Grado Sonata is the largest cartridge in my collection. The wood body weighs more than the others so I used the larger weight of the Michell Technoweight. Even though the body had tapped screw holes, so you did not have to bother with nuts, it was not too easy to mount. When I would tighten a screw it would move in the cartridge slots of the tonearm and throw it out of alignment. Settled on snugging the cartridge and then carefully twisting it to correct alignment.

I set the tracking force at the recommended 1.5 grams. Tracks beautifully and better than the AT F7 which is the most recent cartridge mounted. No sounds of mistracking or distortion at the end of a record. Of course they have all been mounted in the same way using the MoFi Geodisc and a Shure stylus force guage. Anti skate was also set at 1.5. I am currently using the 2mm to set the VTA. I may remove it and listen to the cartridge but it sounds good now so I may leave well enough alone.

Initial impressions are of the cartridge being a refined version of the plastic bodied Grados. Female vocals are incredible. So much so that I have not listened to any male vocalists yet. The AT F7 had a layered soundstage but the layers were cardboard cut-outs caompared to the body the Sonata brings to instruments and singers. If the cartridge gets better as it is broken in great but right now with the limited time and number of records I am pleased. You could listen to this cartridge for hours on end without fatigue.

Great JM...keep us posted!

I have to say that the AntiCables reveal more readily the differences in components. The AT F7 I liked and still like but the AQ cables gave an extra bit of warmth to the sound. The midrange is much more fleshed out with the Grado and I know it is the cartridge and not some artifact of the cables. I am anxious to hear some Rage Against the Machine through the Sonata.

I do not think I have mentioned the hum issue with Grados in a Rega. I do not have it. I think the metal machined subplatter is shielding the cartridge from the motor. Grados are not shielded like other cartridges so apt to hum when close to the motor.

Well that's great you don't have a hum...nice to hear that....and happy for you JM, that you are really enjoying your rig. This hobby really bestows personal happiness.

.I went to YouTube and listened to RATM...sad to say JM....I couldn't hang! Sorry. For some reason, I don't have the patience for the newer rock bands, but I'm all over the classic rock from my youth.


I'm sitting hear listening to some Thelonious Monk now...The mmf-7.1 and the nice subtle sweet sound of the Vincent is just a pleasant sound...and that's all with a cheap $99 2M Red. The Sonata 1 im sure would set it off nicely.

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Originally Posted by frenchmon

Well that's great you don't have a hum...nice to hear that....and happy for you JM, that you are really enjoying your rig. This hobby really bestows personal happiness.

.I went to YouTube and listened to RATM...sad to say JM....I couldn't hang! Sorry. For some reason, I don't have the patience for the newer rock bands, but I'm all over the classic rock from my youth.


I'm sitting hear listening to some Thelonious Monk now...The mmf-7.1 and the nice subtle sweet sound of the Vincent is just a pleasant sound...and that's all with a cheap $99 2M Red. The Sonata 1 im sure would set it off nicely.

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RATM along with Disturbed, Godsmack and several others were good for me at a time I was very angry and raging. Still sounding good tonight but I am in a different place.

One of the great aspects of this cartridge is the center fill. I have heard some carts that the imaging would not be as solid in the center. The Grado Sonata is solid the full width of the soundstage. Oh and Rage is sounding awesome. I keep hearing things I have not heard before and everything makes more musical sense. Very nice. I need to buy the Sonata some more vinyl.

This thread is certainly moving the Sonata higher on my list. It also makes me wonder about a Grado Signature TLZ on my local Craigslist. The seller says it has been sitting unused since new, which I assume is 10 years or so.

I would consider Ortofon carts detailed and lively...some say they are passionless carts...which I have not found the case with the 2M Red. I'm sure the Sonata is very much romantic but would you say its lively like a Ortofon?

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Originally Posted by frenchmon

I would consider Ortofon carts detailed and lively...some say they are passionless carts...which I have not found the case with the 2M Red. I'm sure the Sonata is very much romantic but would you say its lively like a Ortofon?

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The Grado Sonata does passion and instrumental colors much better. Of course this is in comparison with the OM20. While I would consider the OM20 analytical I often thought of it as cold. The Statement Sonata bests any of my cartridges. At first I though the Grado sounded slow but then realized the timing of the music was more accurate. The way complex music is intertwined with counter melodies the Sonata presents it all as it should be. Nothing gets confused or bunched together.

The Grado tracked perfectly through the earthquake.

For grins I pulled out the CA 640P phono pre to see how it might work with the Grado. Just like the AT F7 there was volume but no dynamics. The Slee Fanfare 3 is a better match. The Statement Sonata needs a sensitive phono stage to sound it's best.

I thought since the Grado output is greater than the AT F7's rated output it would be useable with all my phono preamps but that is not the case. I know output of a cartridge can vary depending on the grooves modulations. I am just surprised I need to turn the volume up more with the Grado than with the AT F7 with their outputs going to the Fanfare 3.

The highs are opening up more then past Grados' in my experience. Good recordings are obviously wonderful but nothing I have listened to has been bad. It seems the Grado can show off the good and flatter the less than perfect. I need that is a camera.

I may one day power up the cd player again.

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Originally Posted by JohnMichael

The Grado tracked perfectly through the earthquake.

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I had just finished listening to Who's Next on vinyl and had swiched over to my CD player for some vintage Cream when I felt my chair shaking. I looked at the lamp and it has one of those leaded glass shades on it and it was just vibrating. I thought the washing machine had gone out of balance or something.

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Originally Posted by JohnMichael

The Grado Sonata does passion and instrumental colors much better. Of course this is in comparison with the OM20. While I would consider the OM20 analytical I often thought of it as cold. The Statement Sonata bests any of my cartridges. At first I though the Grado sounded slow but then realized the timing of the music was more accurate. The way complex music is intertwined with counter melodies the Sonata presents it all as it should be. Nothing gets confused or bunched together.

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Boy...thats some cart!

The Grado is one of the more interesting cartridges I have owned. I am curious if the cartridge has settled in or will it continue to change? The cartridge is sounding more neutral than I have ever heard from a Grado. The bass is strong and detailed. The midrange is beautiful. I love how piano and acoustic guitar sounds through the Grado. The high frequencies are detailed and not what I have heard from less expensive Grados.

I am waiting on the extended nut for the Rega tonarm. The only advantage of using one that I can think of is with the 2mm spacer I use with the Grado that central collar will better center the arm in the mounting hole. The collar extends up from the nut into the plinth and around the center pillar of the tonearm bass. I will recheck my overhang and offset after instalation.

My next purchase is an electronic stylus force gauge. My Shure is not as accurate as I would like. Since the Michell Technoweight locks to the end stub it is not easy to tweak the tracking force. The Shure will sometimes give me different readings at different times even though nothing has changed.

First day back from vacation and I am looking forward to being home and playing some vinyl.

Your experience is why I love this hobby. Its just really fun.

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Originally Posted by frenchmon

Your experience is why I love this hobby. Its just really fun.

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Hey Frenchie, I'm sort of having a brain cramp here. What are you using as a phono pre on the 7.1? I have been following JM's journey with his new Grado cartridge and it got me thinking about a new cart, as it has for you also. Now I'm wondering if my phono pre can handle a low output cart.

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Originally Posted by Jack in Wilmington

Hey Frenchie, I'm sort of having a brain cramp here. What are you using as a phono pre on the 7.1? I have been following JM's journey with his new Grado cartridge and it got me thinking about a new cart, as it has for you also. Now I'm wondering if my phono pre can handle a low output cart.

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Well right now I dont have a dedicated phono pre. And the SA-T1 does not have a phono stage. So I run the 7.1 into the Rotel preamp which has a mc/mm phono stage and then out into the SA-T1.

But the wonderful thing about Grado carts, is they make the exact same cart for MC and MM. So JM has the Grado Statement Sonata1 Wood Body Phono Cartridge which is MC...and you would need the Grado Reference Sonata1 Wood Body Phono Cartridge for MM.

Check out the link.

Grado Sonata1 Wood Body Phono Cartridge -specially selected species of mahogany; an intricate procedure of curing is done between production steps to achieve optimal sonic quality.

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Originally Posted by frenchmon

Well right now I dont have a dedicated phono pre. And the SA-T1 does not have a phono stage. So I run the 7.1 into the Rotel preamp which has a mc/mm phono stage and then out into the SA-T1.

But the wonderful thing about Grado carts, is they make the exact same cart for MC and MM. So JM has the Grado Statement Sonata1 Wood Body Phono Cartridge which is MC...and you would need the Grado Reference Sonata1 Wood Body Phono Cartridge for MM.

Check out the link.

Grado Sonata1 Wood Body Phono Cartridge -specially selected species of mahogany; an intricate procedure of curing is done between production steps to achieve optimal sonic quality.

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I guess I was just a little confused because of the low output cart. that JM got and if I got one would my phono pre be able to handle it. I sent Pro-ject an E-mail to see what there opinion was but have yet to hear from them.

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Originally Posted by Jack in Wilmington

I guess I was just a little confused because of the low output cart. that JM got and if I got one would my phono pre be able to handle it. I sent Pro-ject an E-mail to see what there opinion was but have yet to hear from them.

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The Pro-Ject Phono Box SEII has an MC setting with 60 dB gain. That should match up well with the low-output Grado's output of 0.5 mV. However, the Grado specs say input impedance of 47k is recommended. The Phono Box SEII's impedance on the MC input goes up to only 220 Ohm.

Grado Labs | Sonata1 & Platinum1

Pro-Ject Audio Systems

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Originally Posted by 02audionoob

The Pro-Ject Phono Box SEII has an MC setting with 60 dB gain. That should match up well with the low-output Grado's output of 0.5 mV. However, the Grado specs say input impedance of 47k is recommended. The Phono Box SEII's impedance on the MC input goes up to only 220 Ohm.

Grado Labs | Sonata1 & Platinum1

Pro-Ject Audio Systems

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The Graham Slee Fanfare is only 470 ohms.