Grado Sonata 1 Low Output

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Originally Posted by JohnMichael

The Graham Slee Fanfare is only 470 ohms.

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This is good to know. So that spec of 47k is apparently very non-critical.

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Originally Posted by 02audionoob

The Pro-Ject Phono Box SEII has an MC setting with 60 dB gain. That should match up well with the low-output Grado's output of 0.5 mV. However, the Grado specs say input impedance of 47k is recommended. The Phono Box SEII's impedance on the MC input goes up to only 220 Ohm.

Grado Labs | Sonata1 & Platinum1

Pro-Ject Audio Systems

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Could you not select 47K and then press the button for MC?

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Originally Posted by JohnMichael

Could you not select 47K and then press the button for MC?

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I think pushing the button for MC will rule out the option for 47k. Here's the page from the manual.

http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6198/...438673c6_z.jpg

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Originally Posted by 02audionoob

I think pushing the button for MC will rule out the option for 47k. Here's the page from the manual.

http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6198/...438673c6_z.jpg

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Keep in mind the Grado is a fixed coil cartridge so it is a low output MM type cartridge. Or as Grado refers to it as a flux bridger. Others may call it an induced magnet cartridge because the magnet is also fixed. Of course the term moving iron also applies.

I've been in contact with a fellow (Jamie) at Sumiko. He said I would have better results with a high output MC cart. He recommended leaving the switch in MM (40 db gain). He said that the MC setting (60 db gain) would probably overload the input and sound awful. Now the funny part. While I've been researching this the two carts that I was interested in on Audiogon, a Zu Audio Zu/DL-103 and a Sumiko Blue Point Special have both gone to "sale pending" oh well back to the drawing board.

I would agree that a high output MC cartridge (like 2 mV) would be too much output for the MC input's 60 dB gain. But 60 dB would be a good match for a low output cartridge with around 0.5 mV output, like the Grado. The key issue with the Grado would then be its recommended load. If the spec of "2" for its own resistance is correct, I can see why it wouldn't truly need the 47k listed. It seems like it could work with almost any MC setting on the SE II.

I'll have to poke around the interwebs and see what others have done.

Oh damn you Grado. I have only been listening to vinyl but today while preparing for work I turned the cd player back on. I wanted to hear some music I only had on cd. Yikes not the sound of vinyl. I hope it was due to the cd player not having been used since the arrival of the Sonata. I left the cd player on to warm up during the day. I am hoping it will sound better and if not time to covert my cd's to vinyl.

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Originally Posted by JohnMichael

Oh damn you Grado. I have only been listening to vinyl but today while preparing for work I turned the cd player back on. I wanted to hear some music I only had on cd. Yikes not the sound of vinyl. I hope it was due to the cd player not having been used since the arrival of the Sonata. I left the cd player on to warm up during the day. I am hoping it will sound better and if not time to covert my cd's to vinyl.

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WOW!!! Keep me posted on this...and after you've listen can you kindly give us a small detail perspective on the difference in vinyl play back versus CD play back.

to me vinyl is more cohesive...fluid like in its presentation. with a more natural sound......

I've heard a great sounding Grado for $600. It was a moving iron. I bought a Benz MC 3 long ago and have stuck (very happily) with Benz cartridges ever since. I'm currently using a Benz Ruby 3. However, aside from the London moving iron cartridge (in a league of its own), Grado is making the best non-mc cartridges that I have heard.

There's Grado Signature TLZ, unused, listed on Craigslist here. Anyone have any thoughts on that one?

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Originally Posted by tube fan

I've heard a great sounding Grado for $600. It was a moving iron. I bought a Benz MC 3 long ago and have stuck (very happily) with Benz cartridges ever since. I'm currently using a Benz Ruby 3. However, aside from the London moving iron cartridge (in a league of its own), Grado is making the best non-mc cartridges that I have heard.

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I have the Benz MC Gold but of course it is not a Swiss made Benz. I am planning on sending it to Soundsmith for a stylus upgrade. One day I may step up the Benz line. As much as I am enjoying the Statement Sonata it will not be soon. Oh well my watch is Swiss.

I have been very pleased with the Grado. At first it was typically warm but then it opened up in the highs and now we are entering into a more coherent sound with a touch of sweetness. Certainly not syrupy with a loss of details but very engaging.

I would have to say that what I have heard so far makes this $600 cartridge a bargain. When I upgrade tables to something superior I may upgrade cartridges. Now I think the Grado is a good fit for my current analog set-up.

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Originally Posted by 02audionoob

There's Grado Signature TLZ, unused, listed on Craigslist here. Anyone have any thoughts on that one?

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I have never heard that cartridge. I think that is one from the plastic body days with a removable stylus. Grado claims improved sound with the fixed nonreplaceable stylus of their wooden body cartridges. A reduction in resonance is one of the claims.

The Grado continues to please. I am glad I stopped being such a cheap ass about cartridges and bought the Sonata. One thing I should mention is that I never thought Grado's tracked well in a Rega tonearm. Since switching to the Michell Technoweight which is a lowered counterweight the Grado's track very well. Actually I think every cartridge tracks better and with lower surface noise.

I did switch to the heavier weight supplied with the Technoweight. The Sonata's weight is 7g and the small weight is used for cartridges weighing upto 6g and of course the large is for cartridges weighing more than 6g.

My day off and at 10 PM finally have time to spin some vinyl. Enjoying the piano, brushed cymbals and acoustic bass of the jazz music. The Sonata has transported me to a smokey jazz club. Damn this is some good chit.

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Originally Posted by JohnMichael

My day off and at 10 PM finally have time to spin some vinyl. Enjoying the piano, brushed cymbals and acoustic bass of the jazz music. The Sonata has transported me to a smokey jazz club. Damn this is some good chit.

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Dang Boyeee! Now ya talking!...(I assume you are talking about the music being good chit?)

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Originally Posted by frenchmon

Dang Boyeee! Now ya talking!...(I assume you are talking about the music being good chit?)

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Yes the music and the wine. It has been a few decades since I had some good chit. No point going to Amsterdam except for the Rembrandt museum.

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Originally Posted by JohnMichael

Yes the music and the wine. It has been a few decades since I had some good chit. No point going to Amsterdam except for the Rembrandt museum.

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Yeah I feel ya on that one....last time I had some good chit was 1989....so its been a while.

I keep pulling out the vinyl. Last night I was listening to a variety of music. What impressed me last night was Cleo Laine's "Return to Carnegie Hall". At the end of one song she hits a very high note that on some cartridges it was tough to determine if it was her voice or the horns. Last night it was obvious which were her high notes. Her notes were obviously human and distinct from the horns. She hits a high note and then the next note is higher and then she goes even higher. Wow even more impressive through the Grado.

The Grado is still singing sweetly. I removed the 2mm spacer to see how it would sound and I was surprised. Without the spacer I did not notice any great change in balance but a greater depth to the soundstage. The tymapni and bass drums in the Telarc "Rite of Spring" Cleveland Orchestra were both further back and more focused. I would also have to say the bass was a little fuller and more rounded in tone. Of course along with this change was my returning to the Funk Firm Achroplat which also improved the bass power.

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Originally Posted by JohnMichael

The Grado is still singing sweetly. I removed the 2mm spacer to see how it would sound and I was surprised. Without the spacer I did not notice any great change in balance but a greater depth to the soundstage. The tymapni and bass drums in the Telarc "Rite of Spring" Cleveland Orchestra were both further back and more focused. I would also have to say the bass was a little fuller and more rounded in tone. Of course along with this change was my returning to the Funk Firm Achroplat which also improved the bass power.

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John, this is a little off topic but your post reminded me of something I've been meaning to ask about. What has more effect on soundstage depth - source, speakers, speaker placement, amplifier or something else?

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Originally Posted by dean_martin

John, this is a little off topic but your post reminded me of something I've been meaning to ask about. What has more effect on soundstage depth - source, speakers, speaker placement, amplifier or something else?

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I think it can be any component. Speakers have been designed with a slight recess to give the impression of more depth. I think vinyl does depth and ambience much better than cd. VTA helped with depth presentation of the Grado. Too much toe-in can exaggerate depth. I think better electronics have better soundstage presentation. When you are sitting in your chair with eyes closed and the soundfield sounds larger than your room that is the magic of 2 channel.

Oh and a good recording that captures ambiance and depth. Usually one that is minimally miked.

Well it did not take long but I am back to the glass platter and Ringmat mat. The FF Achroplat makes the bass very strong but the highs sounded brittle and harsh. Well as brittle and harsh as the Grado could sound. The Ringmat is still champ for my table, records, cartridge and system. Listening to vinyl is once again sweet and resolved.

The Grado in the Rega arm. Playing with the new macro lens. A picture of my dog in his room and detail of a lamp.

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Originally Posted by JohnMichael

One of the great aspects of this cartridge is the center fill. I have heard some carts that the imaging would not be as solid in the center. The Grado Sonata is solid the full width of the soundstage. Oh and Rage is sounding awesome. I keep hearing things I have not heard before and everything makes more musical sense. Very nice. I need to buy the Sonata some more vinyl.

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Man...I would love to hear this cart with the Vento's. I think I will purchase one some time early next year.

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Originally Posted by frenchmon

Man...I would love to hear this cart with the Vento's. I think I will purchase one some time early next year.

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Come visit and give it a listen. I think I will always have a Grado Sonata in my Rega.

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Originally Posted by JohnMichael

Come visit and give it a listen. I think I will always have a Grado Sonata in my Rega.

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Hey I might just take you up on that some day JM. Not only do I want to hear that cart, but more so, that table! I'm sure that puppy sounds excellent.

When I get a new phono amp, I will send you the Grado phono amp to take a listen with the Sonata....if you are still interested....but it will hopefully be first quarter 2013.

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Originally Posted by frenchmon

Hey I might just take you up on that some day JM. Not only do I want to hear that cart, but more so, that table! I'm sure that puppy sounds excellent.

When I get a new phono amp, I will send you the Grado phono amp to take a listen with the Sonata....if you are still interested....but it will hopefully be first quarter 2013.

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I am always interested in trying new to me audio products. It would be fun to compare the Grado with the Moon.

I will send it to you then.

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Originally Posted by frenchmon

I will send it to you then.

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Or bring it when you visit. I have a spare bedroom with en suite. Queen bed and fresh linens but ignore Corky's looks he thinks it is his room. Your +1 is also welcome. The bad news is I do not cook but I know where the professionals work.

It may be a while before I can vacation. Perhaps next year. Wife has been talking about a family vacation.