CDs Over Vinyl Any Day

[hifitommy]

yeah, i am thinking the pearl is better dropped in the garbage disposal. figuratively speaking, that cart is no pearl. of course dont destroy it, give it to a needy friend. SERIOUSLY. in its price range, get a grado black and be much happier with music. for a hundred, an AT440ML is the choice or a shure m97xe.

a shure v15Vxmr can be had for $200! up the ladder to the clearaudio aurum beta. moving coil definition for mm prices and output.

the pearl is limiting you to entry level vinyl and cd sound. youve got a good tt, put a decent cart on it.

clicks and pops only detract from the music if you focus on them. focus on the music instead. it works. the 1812 on telarc should only be tried with top cartridges and tonearms. lets face it, its one of the most challenging recordings on vinyl. yeah, cd is more conducive to playing this cut without fault but more musical value comes through with analog.

there are SOME people for whom analog isnt right. for those people, ticks and pops ruin the music. they should not buy vinyl. to maintain the level of musicality of vinyl and still remain digital, go for sacd. dvda MIGHT do but i cant say.

the lowest priced rbcd player ive heard in my system is my sony ns500v ($169 shipped). it is wonderful, better than any i have had in the house, and thats quite a few. good analog or digital doesnt need to be expensive. for $2-500 a good tt can be had, same for cdps. still, at that level, vinyl will sound better overall.

let me say that at the $100 level, a cdp WILL sound better than a tt. at the $200 level, it reverses. from there up, vinyl will sound better for the same money. and the gap widens in favor of vinyl as you go up. at $1k, the difference is laughable. vinyl is hands down the winner there.

at new prices, the mmf5, at about $5-700 is unbeatable. at used pricing, its even nicer.

eleiko, what ever possessed you to unload the denon cart? and how could you base your arguement on the pearl???

dan, my friend had two nad cdps and never a prob with the transport. the dac compared on equal footing to the AA dac in the box, not bad. it worked very well with the cal sigma tubed dac, a NICE unit.

eleiko, being 6 years your senior, i DO hear the diffs and it doesnt take golden ears. it takes educated ones. that can be acquired.

[joeychitwood]

....a shure v15Vxmr can be had for $200! up the ladder to the clearaudio aurum beta. moving coil definition for mm prices and output....

I'd love to find that cartridge for less than $325. Do you have a link where it can be had for $200? Thanks.

[hifitommy]

I'd love to find that cartridge for less than $325. Do you have a link where it can be had for $200? Thanks.

trty here but you have to request it.

http://www.jacksmusicfactory.com/default.asp

[hifitommy]

http://www.jacksmusicfactory.com/default.asp

you may have to ask for it.

[kajguy]

This is a great discussion and, frankly, I appreciate the merit to both arguments. I have very mid-range Turntables and CD Players and there is clearly a difference in sound between the two formats using the same material. On the turntable, there are the irritations of little nicks and pops. However, the sound on the CDs just, to my ears, does not sound as "life like" as the best of my vinyl stuff. Then, there is that "compression" issue.

For day in and day out listening the cleaness, the convenience and programmability of the CDs can't be beat. But, I must confess, when I really want to treat myself to some aural pleasure, I go to one of those few MINT LPs I have lying around. That makes me pretty happy until the neighbor starts pounding on the wall.

[eleiko]

yeah, i am thinking the pearl is better dropped in the garbage disposal. figuratively speaking, that cart is no pearl. of course dont destroy it, give it to a needy friend. SERIOUSLY. in its price range, get a grado black and be much happier with music. for a hundred, an AT440ML is the choice or a shure m97xe.

a shure v15Vxmr can be had for $200! up the ladder to the clearaudio aurum beta. moving coil definition for mm prices and output.

the pearl is limiting you to entry level vinyl and cd sound. youve got a good tt, put a decent cart on it.

clicks and pops only detract from the music if you focus on them. focus on the music instead. it works. the 1812 on telarc should only be tried with top cartridges and tonearms. lets face it, its one of the most challenging recordings on vinyl. yeah, cd is more conducive to playing this cut without fault but more musical value comes through with analog.

there are SOME people for whom analog isnt right. for those people, ticks and pops ruin the music. they should not buy vinyl. to maintain the level of musicality of vinyl and still remain digital, go for sacd. dvda MIGHT do but i cant say.

the lowest priced rbcd player ive heard in my system is my sony ns500v ($169 shipped). it is wonderful, better than any i have had in the house, and thats quite a few. good analog or digital doesnt need to be expensive. for $2-500 a good tt can be had, same for cdps. still, at that level, vinyl will sound better overall.

let me say that at the $100 level, a cdp WILL sound better than a tt. at the $200 level, it reverses. from there up, vinyl will sound better for the same money. and the gap widens in favor of vinyl as you go up. at $1k, the difference is laughable. vinyl is hands down the winner there.

at new prices, the mmf5, at about $5-700 is unbeatable. at used pricing, its even nicer.

eleiko, what ever possessed you to unload the denon cart? and how could you base your arguement on the pearl???

dan, my friend had two nad cdps and never a prob with the transport. the dac compared on equal footing to the AA dac in the box, not bad. it worked very well with the cal sigma tubed dac, a NICE unit.

eleiko, being 6 years your senior, i DO hear the diffs and it doesnt take golden ears. it takes educated ones. that can be acquired.

Hi Tommy: I got rid of the Denon because it had over 500 hours of play time. If it was designed to play for much longer, I wasn't aware of it. I don't think the Sumiko Pearl is bad, but it can't compete with the Denon I had in extracting detail. If there's some way I could A/B the Pearl and Blue Point - there isn't - I'd do it and then buy the latter if the sound differences warranted it.

[kajguy]

I just picked up a Sony Turntable with a Bio-Tracer Tonearm on E-bay and was wondering if anyone here knows anything about this. It is supposedly "origianal owner" and I like the looks......but, soundwise, I know not to get too excited about it.

[BRANDONH]

I vave have a reissue of the
Tchaikovsky - 1812 Overture (4 disc set) 45 rpm, 12-inch, Single-sided Collectors Ser. 200g vinyl and it is extremely quiet and my Shure V15VXMR cartridge tracks it beautifully..
http://www.classicrecords.com/catalo...ku=LSC-2241-45.
As far as Vinyl vs. Digital I have a Pioneer Elite PD-65 CD Player and a Pro-ject 1.2 turntable which I upgraded the Sumiko Oyster it came with to the Shure V15VXMR and (in my opinion) the natural sound of vinyl wins over the artificial sound of digital hands down.

[jbangelfish]

The Telarc digital master is extremely difficult to track, some consider it impossible. It's one of those rare recordings that was made with no compression or compromise. Not my favorite music by any means but the actual cannon blasts on the recording are quite a test for any system and there are warnings on the jacket that damage could occur to your equipment. My system will not track it flawlessly but nearly so and I track at 2g with a fairly pricey MC cartridge. I can get through all but about two of the cannon blasts without a problem and the violence and air movement of the actual cannons is very impressive. But that's about it, impressive but not particularly enjoyable.
I choose to listen to vinyl for nearly every listening session because I get a lot more from it, in my system. Maybe a 4k or 10k cd player would make me enjoy them more but I may never find that out. My Denon cd player was around 2k new and I bought it used for less than $200. It does sound better than the 200 disc Sony that it replaced even though it is older. Maybe someday I'll find a true high end cd player for a reasonable price used but I have so much vinyl that I'll never run out of LP's to enjoy.
For me, I have a fair amount of money in my turntable and analog setup and this does make a difference. Even so, I've heard much more from vinyl with old, inexpensive turntables, (Pioneer, Marantz, Yamaha) and reasonably good cartridges (Shure V15's, GradoF1, AT440ML) than I've ever heard from any cd player that I or any of my friends have ever owned. I cannot say I've ever heard a 5k or 10k cd player but I suppose I'd at least like to hear one.
I am also in my 50's (52) as it appears that many of us here are. My hearing is not what it used to be either but I am able to hear far more music from vinyl than from cd. It just sounds more complete and natural. There is a very noticeable blackness or dead silence to cd's which is pleasant. If they would only figure out how to get the music part of it right, a lot of us would be happier with them. Much of the highs (especially cymbals and high pitched percussion) seems distorted, sometimes beyond recognition. Some of it is completely eliminated on cd. Call it poor engineering, call it whatever you like. Maybe it's my 2k cd player, who knows?
I also have many LP's that are very silent. They have to be extremely clean and in excellent condition. The tiniest speck of dust will make noise and the tiniest scratch or imperfection will also. CD's have the advantage here but in my experience, convenience and ease of care have not been enough to convert me. I have around 200 cd's and 4,000 LP's and the vinyl collection is growing much faster than the cd collection.
OK, enough rambling from this old vinyl nut.
Bill

[jbangelfish]

I've purchased a couple of items on Audiogon with no problems. There is more equipment available on ebay but you need to be careful. I bought a perfectly mint appearing AR turntable that had a bad motor and missing stylus. There is more of an audiophile crowd at Audiogon, higher end equipment and maybe a better chance at getting what you pay for.
I thought you had a nice European tt to work on. Did you give up? There are plenty of well made, old tt's out there, ebay or Audiogon, that would probably make a bigger improvement in your system than a $500 cd player. Thorens, Micro Seiki, AR, to name a few. Some can be had for as little as $50 or so but usually the better tt's will bring $150 to $350. Maybe not world beaters but many would outperform the newer tt's that are going to cost $500 to 1k. Maybe the best deal for new is the RM4 by Project?, I think. Get's pretty high praise for a reasonable price.
I can't say about the MMF5 or the Goldring cartridge but I don't see a lot of people bragging about them. There are many out there and they may be a good intro to vinyl, I don't really know. The Shure V15 might be the best MM cartridge out there. Even the high end vinyl nuts have nothing but good things to say about it. I know that I always enjoyed my V15III back in the 70's.
Anyway, good luck and I would strongly urge you to pursue the turntable. With the right setup, you'll never regret it.
Bill

[jbangelfish]

Nobody seems to like the Blue Point Special, anywhere. The AT440ML is a bargain at under $100 but you'd be most likely to appreciate the finer points of vinyl with the Shure V15. I don't think I've ever read anything negative about it and as I said in an earlier post, even the high end big money boys have respect for it.
Bill

[jbangelfish]

There is an MMF5 with Goldring 1012?, I think on Audiogon for $350. The seller says it has about 20 hours on it, if I remember correctly. Just check under analog classifieds. There were several decent tt's from $250 to $500.
Bill