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  1. #1
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    best budget integrated amp?

    Thanks for help on cd player vs amp. Now I am trying to determine the best choice for a integrated amp under 500, or if possible, under 4 or 3. any ideas are great! Thanks.

  2. #2
    Super Moderator Site Moderator JohnMichael's Avatar
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    I own the Cambridge Azur 640A and have been very pleased with the sound and dependability of the unit. I am using it in my main system to replace an old Rotel unit that is now in the bedroom. IMO it sounds better than the Rotel but I do not know if the Rotel is up to original standards. The 640A is very detailed and balanced accross the frequency range. I would recommend the 640A highly. I would also suggest you look at NAD and Rotel for quality int. amps in your price range.
    JohnMichael
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  3. #3
    RGA
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    I have had a bit of a change of heart on my view of this over the last year or so. Budget solid state integrateds generally are not better enough over receivers to justify the price of losing a significant amount of features. I like the Rotel RA-02 as a budget unit but it's not soooo much better than a comprably priced receiver from Yamaha or Denon or Marantz to live without all these units bring to the table.

    I think if I were looking in this price range I would be exploring a number of tube amp options that while not the best examples of tubes can still bring about a better sense of the music.

    Jolida makes a number of tube amps -- the 102b is about $600.00Cad or $500.00US list (it may be less though) the 202a is $750.00Cad but I have seen them significantly cheaper http://www.jolida.com/catalogue/models/jd202a.shtml
    http://www.jolida.com/catalogue/models/jd102b.shtml

    If you have speakers say 89db 8 ohms then those two should have more than enough power to drive them well. Another one that is nice is the ASL http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volum...mp-1-2001.html
    You'd have to go used on this one -- the new models are $1k but you may find one for sale on Audiogon or some other ebay like outfit.

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    For what it's worth, I have seen a lot of Jolida owners sit in silence when their units go down, and a lot of them have.
    Now understand, I have NOT owned a Jolida myself, but know a lot of folks, and a lot more online, that have had dependability issues with Jolida.
    But they DO sound really good, the cdp especially, with the tubes and all.

  5. #5
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    Thanks for the info so far. I have been considering the Cambridge and the NAD 320 BEE, but am confused as reading other forums, people mention the Cambridge as being less than the NAD, but I usually see the NAD for 400, and the Cambridge for around 6. Am I misreading or maybe thinking of other models? Also, preferences between the Cambridge and NAD, I have Paradigm studio 20s. Thanks.

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    More specifically, Cambridge 340 or 540 versus NAD 320 BEE? Thanks

  7. #7
    Super Moderator Site Moderator JohnMichael's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by funnyhat
    More specifically, Cambridge 340 or 540 versus NAD 320 BEE? Thanks
    As far as my 640A I purchased it from www.audioadvisor.com for $499. I do not know the prices of the 340 or 540 but they do sell for less than the price of the 640A.
    JohnMichael
    Vinyl Rega Planar 2, Incognito rewire, Deepgroove subplatter, ceramic bearing, Michell Technoweight, Rega 24V motor, TTPSU, FunkFirm Achroplat platter, Michael Lim top and bottom braces, 2 Rega feet and one RDC cones. Grado Sonata, Moon 110 LP phono.
    Digital
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    Int. Amp Krell S-300i
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  8. #8
    Color me gone... Resident Loser's Avatar
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    Depending...

    ...on a few things, the Marantz PM7200 and the Yamaha AX-497...I think both are MSRPd around $500USD...

    jimHJJ(...FYI...)
    Hello, I'm a misanthrope...don't ask me why, just take a good look around.

    "Men would rather believe than know" -Sociobiology: The New Synthesis by Edward O. Wilson

    "The great masses of the people...will more easily fall victims to a great lie than to a small one" -Adolph Hitler

    "We are never deceived, we deceive ourselves" -Goethe

    If you repeat a lie often enough, some will believe it to be the truth...

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by funnyhat
    Thanks for help on cd player vs amp. Now I am trying to determine the best choice for a integrated amp under 500, or if possible, under 4 or 3. any ideas are great! Thanks.

    The Jolida 1501 is a hybrid integrated with a tube preamp and 100w/ch MOSFET power amp. With he right tubes this amp will perform better than MUCH more expensive equipment. You do need to upgrade the stock Chinese tubes though. I've been using Sovtek12AX7LPS tubes with awesome results. These are inexspensive tubes as well.

    I've had no reliability issues after 3 months of use. I have not heard of any reliability issues with these amps. They have huge/massive toroidal transformers. The unit itself HEAVILY built.

    I have had no experience with the pure tube integrated amps from Jolida. A previous poster implied reliability issues with Jolida amps. I think he may have been refering to the pure tube integrateds by Jolida.

  10. #10
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    I compared the c320bee vs. the RA01 vs. the 540a and picked the 540a. It really came down to the NAD and Cambridge units as Rotel charges $100(!) for their remote and for my office app., a remote is a neccessity. The speakers are Mission Argonauts (4ohm nom., 95dB/w/m). Here's a summary as to how they compare to each other:

    NAD C320bee:
    Superior bass response, very musical, neutral tone, looks only a mother could love.

    CA Azur 540a:
    Better low level response (i.e. more balanced at all volume levels), slightly warmer tone, very musical, far better aesthetics.

    If you want more bass, the NAD is the way to go. Given enough juice, C320bee plays deeper and with more authority. I use mine in the office so low level ability took precedence and because they are out in the open for my clients to see, aesthetics played a role as well. The Azur runs cool and hasn't had any problems whatsoever driving a 4 ohm load 10 hours a day for the last 2 years, although I doubt the NAD would have encountered any difficulties either. With the Mission's sensitivity, it isn't like I'm pouring power at 'em. NAD has had some previous QC probs, as has CA. In fact, I had to send mine back to replace the volume pot barely 3 months into ownership. Since then however, it has been bulletproof. BTW, I got mine from a dealer for $250, so realize there is room to negotiate.

    Both are very good units. You can't really go wrong with either.

    Hope this helps.

  11. #11
    RGA
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    Yes I have experienced reliability issues with Jolida - my choice would be ASL but it costs more. My dealer recently dropped the Jolida line in favour of the ASL -- they carried both for 2 years as a trial run and ASL has less problems is built better and sounds better -- but Jolida has more options such as hybrids and they look better.

    There other tube amp makers callled Almarro and Cayin that may be worth checking into which may be better. There is a Canadian Tube maker which si supposed to be very good and VERY inexpensive -- easily under $500.00(if you build it yourself) called Mapletree Audio. Their main thing is preamps and headphone amps but one could buy a preamp and power amp combination that would be around the $500.00 range (this would be a separates set-up with monoblock amps.

    The NAD 320 is the worst budget integrated amplifier I have ever heard in this hobby in my entire life. My dealer sells it and was on the phone for hours trying to get NAD to put the designer on the phone to explain the issues all of his 320Bee amps were having. The amplifier does not create a proper soundfield or realistic stereo image when it should, has a dead sounding bottom end. Directly A/B'd to the Rotel RA-02 it was shocking that two budget SS amps could be so polarizing to listen to -- equally shiocking that both get great reviews.

    The Other NAD integrated such as the 370 sounded much better (though the 370 does have a constant transistory sounding etch to the thing -- but it has a ballsy brute force Bryston like presentation for much less coin than a Bryston so there is appeal there.

  12. #12
    Suspended topspeed's Avatar
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    To be fair Rich, you should note that you've heard various 320bee's that have sounded different from one another, so it' entirely possible this one example had something seriously wrong with it. Of course, the fact that there's such variability between samples poses a whole 'nother set of questions .

  13. #13
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    i certainly agree with all of Topspeed's points, owning the 540a and having auditioned the NAD 320BEE. I chose the Cambridge because it sounded way more accurate to me, and because at the price, it was a downright steal (199€, or slightly less of what Topspeed got it for).
    However do realize that if you intend to have room-shaking bass, or if you have speakers with less than 89Dbs of sensitivity, the cambridge (nor the nad, nor any sub-100 watt amp) won't cut it. It struggles BADLY to drive my 84 Db 6-ohm speakers (this was fixed with a fine Adcom power amp).
    So yeah, it is indeed an awesome amp, specially for the money. Rotel might be more detailed, but i didnt find it quite as involving (auditioned this one, too) and its definately overpriced for what you get.
    Cheers!
    I remember the days when I thought 128kbps sounded great and had never spent more than 10 bucks on cables...

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    Does the fact that I have paradigm studio 20's make a difference? One comment about the Cambridge needing a pretty effecient speaker makes me wonder as I don't think the paradigms are that effecient, but I could be wrong. Thanks again!

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by RGA
    Yes I have experienced reliability issues with Jolida - .
    I'm curious! What model Jolida and what kinds of issues? Thanks!

  16. #16
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    The studio 20's are quite efficient. You won't have a problem driving them with any of the amps you're looking at.

  17. #17
    RGA
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    Quote Originally Posted by ECMJazz
    I'm curious! What model Jolida and what kinds of issues? Thanks!
    the 202a -- this was a second hand unit that I wanted to audition and then buy. This was a B&W Reps unit and I booked time to audition it. It didn;t work and all that came out was static. I booked a second audition but got a phone call saying it failed and had to be repaired. Then 3 weeks later I went down to audition it and it didn't even turn on. The dealer was so mad at it that he refuesed to sell it.

    You ask why I was willing to give ti so many chances? The price - they were asking $300.00Cad for it. The reason they had it that cheap to start with was because it had physically caught on fire.

    Now this may just be a lemon but Jolida has had some issues mentioned on a lot of forums and that is why I lean a little stronger to Antique Sound Labs which has not been free of problems either. Generally though ASL has been sightedmore for fit and finish issues which are less important. My headphone amp has been perfect for 6 years (still on the stock tubes).

    One big reason I prefer AN or SET amps is that you never have to bias the tubes -- incorrect biasing can lead the inexperienced user into some problems. But Audio Note's entry level integrated is the OTO SE at $2,600.00 with phono another $500.00.

    The ASL AQ 1003DT would be my first choice in the $1k US range -- the SS Audio Refinement Complete is also quite excellent for the money as is the Jolida 302B which has a more classic valvey sound than the ASL.

  18. #18
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    Is a sale on the cambridge 540 for 275 a good deal? Not sure what they go for right now. It seems the overall opinion is that this and the NAD 320 BEE are comparable? I would be interested to know if one of the other has major flaws, or at this price range is it just nit picking. Thanks for all help.

  19. #19
    Super Moderator Site Moderator JohnMichael's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by funnyhat
    Is a sale on the cambridge 540 for 275 a good deal? Not sure what they go for right now. It seems the overall opinion is that this and the NAD 320 BEE are comparable? I would be interested to know if one of the other has major flaws, or at this price range is it just nit picking. Thanks for all help.
    www.audioadvisor.com has the 540 on sale for $269.22 and depending where you live they will ship it for free.
    JohnMichael
    Vinyl Rega Planar 2, Incognito rewire, Deepgroove subplatter, ceramic bearing, Michell Technoweight, Rega 24V motor, TTPSU, FunkFirm Achroplat platter, Michael Lim top and bottom braces, 2 Rega feet and one RDC cones. Grado Sonata, Moon 110 LP phono.
    Digital
    Sony SCD-XA5400ES SACD/cd SID mat, Marantz SA 8001
    Int. Amp Krell S-300i
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  20. #20
    nightflier
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    My vote goes to the C320BEE.

    Quote Originally Posted by funnyhat
    Is a sale on the cambridge 540 for 275 a good deal? Not sure what they go for right now. It seems the overall opinion is that this and the NAD 320 BEE are comparable? I would be interested to know if one of the other has major flaws, or at this price range is it just nit picking. Thanks for all help.
    My vote goes to the NAD. I've auditioned both in my home and I have to say that the NAD has deeper bass and more authority. Also doesn't have a problem driving 4 ohm speakers. The two things that bothered me most about the NAD are cosmetic:

    - ridiculoously laid out remote: can never tell which way is up & it has more buttons than are needed (to control other NAD components).
    - It looks like somebody smeared poop all over it instead of using paint. It won't match black or silver components, but if you have all NAD gear, I suppose it matches.

    On the other hand, I was willing to overlook these issues because of the sound and several features that were important to me: 12v trigger (to power external devices), spartan front layout (great WAF), better sounding headphone amp, plenty of inputs (including video & Tape2), smoother volume control, and preamp outputs (it can do double duty as a very decent preamp).

    Other components you should definitely consider: HK3480 (also ugly but so good that I bought one) and the Outlaw RR2150 (which I intend to audition as soon as it comes out). Both of these are receivers, but they have a ton of useful features.

  21. #21
    Suspended topspeed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nightflier
    - It looks like somebody smeared poop all over it instead of using paint.
    LOL!!! Now there's a visual for ya!

    Oh man, you just made my day...

  22. #22
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    Thanks for all the tips, one more question, once I am set up with the integrated amp and cd player, what are my best options for cables (types and/or brands)? I don't know much about this, any ideas are great!

  23. #23
    test the blind blindly emorphien's Avatar
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    hey, my NADs resemble the fact that they look like poo was smeared on them

  24. #24
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    I'd highly recommend the Cambridge Audio 640A if you can swing it. They just released the Version 2 of the 640A so you can probably find a V1 for less than $400 from SpearitSound.com or avhifi.com

    As for the Cambridge units not being able to push inefficient speakers - I've got the 640A running 86db NHT SB-3's without a hitch.

    Cables - go with AudioQuest and the best ones you can afford. The Sidewinders are nice and won't run you much more than around $40/meter pair.

  25. #25
    Suspended topspeed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by funnyhat
    Thanks for all the tips, one more question, once I am set up with the integrated amp and cd player, what are my best options for cables (types and/or brands)? I don't know much about this, any ideas are great!
    Anything better than the supplied cables will be fine. You're likely to have an extremely short run for the IC's so I'd think a .5m pair will be fine. As for brands, start with the cheapest brand you can find, such as AR from RatShack and then compare them to a pair of boutique brands IC's (AQ, Monster, Valhalla, HarmonicTech, etc.) and see if you can hear the difference. Go with what you think sounds best.

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