Best Amplifier Choices under $3000 for AV123 LS6 speakers.

[devuonoste]

Thanks Mr. P. I have a couple of questions for you regarding the CJ. When in HT bypass and the Emo and Yammy would be working to produce the sound, does the CJ have any effect and are the tubes working when in HT mode? I don't have any experience with any of this but you mention above about the possible difference in sound between the center and the mains and I'm wondering if there is an effect or were you mistaken. I would think that current would not flow through the tubes unless the CJ is in 2ch mode and working with the Emo but I'm not sure. If the tubes are active during HT it is not a huge deal, as I don't use HT that much but my 2ch vs HT listening does vary and it would be nice not to have to worry about putting time on the tubes in HT. Also, I know I should do some more research, but I'm wondering if you can give me a ball park figure on how often I need to change the tubes and the availability of tubes and how hard is the process of changing the tubes. Also, if and when I buy, should I buy a supply of tubes in case they will no longer be available and where is the best place to buy tubes? Finally, can the tubes be changed to different types so as to modify the sound?

[Mr Peabody]

Thanks Mr. P. I have a couple of questions for you regarding the CJ. When in HT bypass and the Emo and Yammy would be working to produce the sound, does the CJ have any effect and are the tubes working when in HT mode? I don't have any experience with any of this but you mention above about the possible difference in sound between the center and the mains and I'm wondering if there is an effect or were you mistaken. I would think that current would not flow through the tubes unless the CJ is in 2ch mode and working with the Emo but I'm not sure.

* Me? make a mistake, surely you gest. The preamp would have to be on and needlessly putting time on the tubes is a real concern. Passing through the preamp could effect the sound, how much, I'm not sure.

If the tubes are active during HT it is not a huge deal, as I don't use HT that much but my 2ch vs HT listening does vary and it would be nice not to have to worry about putting time on the tubes in HT. Also, I know I should do some more research, but I'm wondering if you can give me a ball park figure on how often I need to change the tubes and the availability of tubes and how hard is the process of changing the tubes.

* Unless a 6H30, a tube averages about 5,000 hours of use. I've had my gear for a couple years now and haven't had to change one yet. Knock on wood. I haven't had my preamp open, tubes just plug in though and shouldn't be hard.

Also, if and when I buy, should I buy a supply of tubes in case they will no longer be available and where is the best place to buy tubes? Finally, can the tubes be changed to different types so as to modify the sound?

* CJ stocks the tubes they use in their gear and recommend not changing from what they used originally. However, many people who use tubes seem to enjoy replacing them with various brands and possibly other types if compatible. When changing the brand of tube used it often times does change the sound.

Really, in the type of set up you are looking to do, solid state would probably be better, or at least easier and lower maintenance.

[Mr Peabody]

P.S.: How often tubes are changed depends on how many hours of listening you log in during a period of time. Tubes are readily available, mostly online. We've got some experienced tube guys here if and when you get to these points. I'm still basically a novice and not really into "tube rolling". Tube rolling is what it's called when you experiment with changing out tubes in a piece of gear.

[devuonoste]

Thanks for the info Mr. P. I agree that SS would be the simplest method; however, I am looking for the best possible sound I can get. If I have to fiddle around with the gear a bit I don't mind. As long as parts are readily available and as long as the device is reliable and the only work I have to do is maintenance type work like changing tubes or cleaning. I still need to wait a while before I puchase something and I will try to accumulate as much info as possible before I do. With my statement above I'm not trying to say that I wouldn't purchase SS gear or that SS gear is inferior, but I just want to establish that sound quality is my #1 priority and I don't mind doing some extra work for that if it means the sound quality will be better. Who knows, I may end up with SS gear if there's something out there that is the best bang for my buck in my price range. There's a lot of interesting combos out there and I hope to find the best I can for the budget I have set. I know almost everyone is in the same boat with respect to this challenge.

[Mr Peabody]

As far as the CJ preamp you can't tell any difference between it and solid state functionally. I just know some day down the road a tube will need to be replaced. I thought it was an exceptional preamp performance wise.

Mine is a PV14LS2, not sure what the difference is between L & LS2 except the LS2 was $2500.00 retail. http://www.conradjohnson.com/It_just...ts/a-pv14.html

[Mr Peabody]

Also, CJ does offer solid state preamps, you'd have to check the CJ website to make sure whatever you considered had the bypass. www.conradjohnson.com If the bypass wasn't an issue Audiogon usually has some older CJ preamps for well under $1k.

[devuonoste]

Mr. P. and frenchmon,

Thanks for the great review of the MF xray. I hope I will be able to purchase one in the near future. It's nice to see members getting together to compare audio gear, as it certainly helps those who are looking to purchase.

[frenchmon]

Mr. P. and frenchmon,

Thanks for the great review of the MF xray. I hope I will be able to purchase one in the near future. It's nice to see members getting together to compare audio gear, as it certainly helps those who are looking to purchase.

The X-ray really is a very good machine. It performed better than I expected. I've got it pared with the Rotel 1090 preamp and 1080 amp and there is a nice synergy to the system. But I believe the X-ray will give synergy to just about any good gear. At some point I will be upgrading the remaining gear I have to take better advantage of the X-ray.

After listening to the ERC-1 last night in MrPeabody's two channel room, the ERC-1 had a chance to shine and that it did. We switched the ERC-1 between the tube DAC by Audio Note and the DAC's of the ERC-1 depending on the music and the ERC-1 just sounded better and better no matter what we put in. MrPeabody went old school and played some Stylistics, Ohio Players and some Led Zepplin...all from the 70's and the ERC-1 never missed a beat. He then played Vannesa Williams new CD, and some Chick Corea. We also listened to a little YoYo Ma and some other tunes and the combination of the ERC-1, Rotel 1090 preamp and the ADCOM amp was a nice midfi combination. Any one would be pleased to have that system as their main system. The Emotiva ERC-1 really is a good solid state player connected to the right gear. You wont find a better player at the $399 price point. I think Cambridge has a player in this price range. I would love to do a shootout with it and the ERC-1.

But I do believe the main attraction of the night was the Dynaudio speakers. I mean, those things are incredible. They are so neutral and yet so dynamic at the same time. I mean we just crank those things up loud and they just continue to sound fabulous. For a two way speaker the sound is just awesome. I wish I had other speakers to do a shootout with those bad boys. I may have to just drag my Paradigm monitor 7v3 over to see if they can even come close to what the Dynaudio can do, but I dont want to look to foolish. I would love to do a shootout with the Paradigm Studio Series or the Signature Series, or some of the Canton Reference Series...or even the PSB speakers.

frenchmon

[devuonoste]

I totally agree a shootout with the speakers you mentioned would be interesting, also, the Emo vs Cambridge shootout would be interesting. Sounds like you guys had a great time. I wish there was someone close by that I could do the same thing with. I'll have to talk some of my buddies into starting up the hobby.

[frenchmon]

Well the funny thing is I lived in North Carolina all those years and I had not one buddy who was into hifi. I met Mr.Peabody while I was still in North Carolina on these very boards. Then My wife decides she wants to transfer , tired of North Carolina... we moved to St. Charles which is a suburb of St. Louis thirty miles out. I just got lucky I suppose.

frenchmon

[Mr Peabody]

I think in order for Cambridge to have a chance we'd have to get our hands on at least a 740. When I was shopping CDP's a couple online retailers who sold both Cambridge and NAD both told me the c545 was better than the 640, the ERC hammered the c545 pretty good in my book. Their rec could be based on me telling them I didn't want a laid back sound too. The X-ray was better but we have to keep in mind the X-ray's original retail price. Based on the way Emo markets their gear it's more realistic to put the ERC against more expensive players.

[devuonoste]

Does anyone have any experience with Conrad Johnson MF2500A amp? The reviews I've read have all been positive. I know many have said to purchase new from a place where you can return if you're not happy with the product; however, I am still open to purchasing used if a good deal arises on something that most people say is a good product. Also, if anyone has any thoughts on what pre-amp would work well with that amp I would appreciate that as well. I wonder if the Conrad Johnson PV14 LS2 and the MF xray cd player would make a good combo with this amp?

[devuonoste]

Mr.P and frenchmon,

I read your thoughts on the Monoprice cables and I'm glad I purchased the BJC RCA interconnects for my Emo/Yammy. I know that there's a lot better out there, but I'm glad I chose BJC over Monoprice. It's amazing how many people say to go with Monoprice though; however, I can see your point about not knowing any better until they have been compared to other cables. It is nice to see you guys are doing these comparisons with gear and sharing it with the members of this forum. Great job and Thanks for the info.

P.S. - any thoughts on the CJ MF2500A amp and possible combo with the MFxray and CJ PV14 LS2?

[frenchmon]

devuonoste...from the limited reading I have done on the CJ MF2500A it sounds like it would have great synergy with the X-Ray. Some say it has a tubby sound. You may want to check out this thread where some talk about the CJ MF2500A http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr...openflup&2&4#2

[Mr Peabody]

I have not heard the MF-2500 but a friend of mine had one, it is a very good amp. It's MOSFET, as the 5500 is. So it will have more of an earthy dark sound but I doubt if it sounds tubby. If CJ tube amps aren't tubby I can't imagine the solid state being that way. Herman also has a good ear and I doubt he would live with an amp that sounded like that. I'd love to hear one in my system, the combo of CJ tube & their solid state.

[Mr Peabody]

Check this MF2500 info

http://www.soundstage.com/revequip/c...son_mf2500.htm

http://www.stereophile.com/solidpoweramps/1299cj/

There are user reviews here at AR as well but I haven't read them

[devuonoste]

Thanks for the info frenchmon and Mr. P. I appreciate your input.

[frenchmon]

Mr.Peabody...I personally have no experience with the CJ MF2500A. But there is an earlier model to which you may be referencing. There was the model CJ MF2500 as well.

The reviews that I read where for the 2500A which was a later model that was pointed out by those who owned it. It was they that said it had a tube sound.

Now when I say tubby, I did not mean that in a negative way. Iwas just stating the sound of tubes. I would say your CJ gear sounds tubby meaning your system has the sound of tubes. I hope I did not affend you by that remark.

frenchmon

[Mr Peabody]

Oh, you said "tubby" which is a bad thing in most books, you mean "tubey" or "tubie" which ever, as in "tube like". Tubey is a good thing generally. I guess that would depend on the sound you are looking for and how one views the sound of tubes though.

[devuonoste]

I agree with your assessment based on the reviews that are out there. It seems like the vast majority of people that have or have heard CJ gear have the same opinion about their sound characteristics. Judging from their explanations I take it that the CJ house sound is basically what I'm looking for. I'm sure there are other choices out there that may be just as good and maybe even better in some respects but I'm not sure that there are many that would be better for my tastes in the price range I am looking for. So for now I am really interested in trying some CJ amps. I'll probably have to wait until early next year but CJ has found a top spot on my list so far. I'll have to do some more research to see what CJ amp/pre amp combo I should go for and also do more research to ensure I want to go the CJ route.

[Mr Peabody]

Were you interested in tube or solid state CJ power amps?

It's funny I used to run Krell and still have a 500i integrated. Krell is great at what it does but after about reaching my limits of what I could afford I still wasn't satisfied. I began to wonder about tubes, and added my first piece which was my Audio Note 1.1x DAC. I liked the result. I started looking for some tube gear and auditioned some Audio Research which is well respected and I heard some older gear before of theirs I liked but the gear I brought home I didn't care for at all. No other tube gear was in town so I was like you hitting the internet and researching. I can't remember how I found out about www.spearitsound.com but they were a CJ dealer and since no one in my area carried it they were willing to work with me. I picked out the PV-14LS2 and a MV60 tube amp. Once I got it set up and listened I knew those pieces were here to stay. What got me thinking about CJ was buying one of their solid state DAC's from a friend and I liked the sound a lot. Remember I was used to Krell, the MV60 rated at about 50x2 pushed my Dyn's well enough but I occasionally found myself wanting a bit more horse power. I found another MV60 on Audiogon and bought it. Coincidently, the amp was right here in town. I sent both back to CJ's factory to have them converted to mono and output of 100 watts each. CJ was a trade off, it doesn't go as low as Krell or have the iron grip control but not much out there does, but I really enjoy my CJ system. The MV60 uses EL-34's in the output stage which is known for excellent midrange, the MV60se and some of their other tube amps use 6550's which have a bit more punch and control over the bass but gives up a bit of midrange sensation.

Any way keep me in mind if you decide on CJ and my preamp might work for you.

[devuonoste]

Hi Mr. P.

I am not 100% sure what I will go for but for now the CJ MF2500A sounds interesting, because the information that I gathered from reading the reviews is that it has the tubey sound I'm looking for and also the power needed for good dynamics. I think your pre-amp would work well with that amp as well as the MF xray v8. I hope to be able to purchase early next year. I will definitely let you know when I am able to purchase some audio gear because I'll most likely be interested in your preamp.

[frenchmon]

IF you get the CJ gear and the X-ray, and if it sounds like MrPeabodys CJ pushing my X-ray, then I'm sure you will fall in love with the sound.

frenchmon

[Feanor]

Forgot to add another couple of amps that caught my eye

-Xindak A600E ($3495 at the high end palace & +/- $2500 used)
-LFD integrated Zero MKIII (+phono stage) - approx. $4000 new and would purchase used

Also, I will definitely scratch the Phase Linear 700B.

If anyone can give me their experience with one or more of the amps I've listed I would appreciate the info. Thanks.

Yep, scratch the PL 700B. For years I lived with a Phase Linear 400 -- years wasted until I learned how much better sounding stuff was out there.

Lots of choices in amps. One more comment re. integrated vs. separates. There a great integrateds out there that offer much better value than separates. On the other hand, RGA is totally correct that a pre/power combination offers a lot more flexibility for fine-tuning your system and upgrading. It's a trade off -- you have to make your personal decission.

A 4-5 years ago, I bought and integrated and regretted it for the reasons above. However I'll be retiring in a few months and with a bit less income to play with, I'd go integrated if I need a new amp. If I had $4000 to "invest" I'd check out his Pass Labs INT-150 on Audiogon. The INT-150 is a stellar amp by all accounts.

[frenchmon]

Another audio buddy retiring? Must be nice. Road Runner is also retiring, Could be audio bliss.