Islam: Our Partners in Peace...

[markw]

Mark, I have stayed clear of this argument, but your Neanderthal like perspective is pretty troubling. Marriage has been going on since the beginning of time, but so has rape, racism, and several other things. Considering the fact that the divorce rate sit firmly at 50%, one has to doubt whether this model is all that successful. All of my siblings have gone through a divorce, and I am the only one that didn't. We have 6 billion folks on this planet, so procreation has done its job, and is pretty much through as an excuse for keep things "as it is". Straight folks have done wonderful things with marriage(turns sarcasm button off). The institution is truly in a state of dysfunction, and at this point, it is not a beacon of light you are trying to make it.

Marriage is a commitment that the couple needs to work at. It ain't always easy. It sometimes takes work, lots of it, and a lack of selfishness on both parts. That doesn't mean the institution is flawed, just that those involved aren't treating it with the respect that's due and are opting for the easy way out when it becomes too much work.

[here are legal ramifications in any divorce, so that is a flimsy excuse for not allowing same sex marriage.

True, but the "same sex" thing has caused confusion in several states already.

If even one person dies from a abortion clinic bombing, that is too many.

Seriously Terry ,you want to try to blame all religions for this? C'mon, I gave you more ctedit than that.

Most prison rapes are done by those who consider themselves straight in society. Rape in prison is not about sexuality, it is about control. Unfortunately gays are victims of prison rapes far more than the are perpetrators.

Whatever you say. I'd say it's ore to do with using what one has available.

If it is such an aberration of nature, then why can you find it in nature so much? How many gays have to be created by God(man is his creation) and put on this earth before it becomes acceptable?

When they are capable of reproducing on their own.

There are millions of gays all over the world, and that is a lot of aberrations - is nature becoming dysfunctional? More and more are being born each day, so why does God let this happen if it is an aberration? Nobody on this planet who is gay wants to waste their time trying to convince you of anything, they have their lives to live.

There's also more incidints of cancer, hepatitis and other healh issues over the past few years. They also perscribe drugs for childrens behavioural problems more and more lately. Are you going to try to tell me that's the new normal?

Since you are not God, no one really has to accept anything just because you state it. Your proclamations are just your opinion, and that should be taken with a bag of salt. No where in the Bible does God or Jesus mention anything about homosexuality, so this is nothing more than the opinion of man, or laws created by man to control man.

I never claim to be God, nor will say he doesn't exist. Nobody has to accept my opinions as the truth, but outside of this collection of social misfits, many do. And, I don't go making fun of others beliefs or actions, either. That's more than I can say about this place.

[JohnMichael]

When they are capable of reproducing on their own.

Now we must limit marriage to couples who will and are capable of reproducing. A young man returning from war without his testicles will not be allowed to marry because he cannot reproduce. A young woman who is infertile will need to remain a spinster. A person born with both genders who is always sterile cannot marry the opposite of whatever gender they choose for themselves. If a man due to prostate cancer has his testicles removed to lengthen his life will his marriage be annulled?

[markw]

Now we must limit marriage to couples who will and are capable of reproducing. A young man returning from war without his testicles will not be allowed to marry because he cannot reproduce. A young woman who is infertile will need to remain a spinster. A person born with both genders who is always sterile cannot marry the opposite of whatever gender they choose for themselves. If a man due to prostate cancer has his testicles removed to lengthen his life will his marriage be annulled?

It's logic like that that makes gays look stupid. They are the exception to the rule and don't skew the equation. It still maintains the natural ways of couples.

Now, when two people of the same sex can generate a child on their own, get back to me.
.

[JohnMichael]

It's logic like that that makes gays look stupid. They are the exception to the rule and don't skew the equation. It still maintains the natural ways of couples.

Now, when two people of the same sex can generate a child on their own, get back to me.
.

Be very careful who you are calling stupid. I was just following your logic.

[markw]

Be very careful who you are calling stupid. I was just following your logic.

Not very well, apparantly.

[ForeverAutumn]

It's logic like that that makes gays look stupid. They are the exception to the rule and don't skew the equation. It still maintains the natural ways of couples.

Now, when two people of the same sex can generate a child on their own, get back to me.
.

So it's all about reproduction Mark? My husband and I made a concious decision, before we got married, not to have children. As far as I know we are both perfectly capable of having children, we just choose not to. Do you think that we shouldn't have been allowed to marry?

I think that marriage is about love and commitment. If two people love each other and want to make a commitment to each other why shouldn't they be allowed to do so? The ability or desire to reproduce shouldn't have any bearing on it.

[markw]

So it's all about reproduction Mark? My husband and I made a concious decision, before we got married, not to have children. As far as I know we are both perfectly capable of having children, we just choose not to. Do you think that we shouldn't have been allowed to marry?

I think that marriage is about love and commitment. If two people love each other and want to make a commitment to each other why shouldn't they be allowed to do so? The ability or desire to reproduce shouldn't have any bearing on it.

That's a part of it but it's more of a "mating" of two bloodlines to pass the best of their genes, and possibly beliefs, on to another generation, not to mention financial /political continuity. That's why marriage has traditionally been between a man and a woman, for all societies, since the beginning of time. That's the reason for the male/female pairing, not raw sex per se.

As for your "conscious decision", that's your choice but you don't know what you're missing, or missed. I'm glad to have raised three boys into fine men and now they are working on six grandkids, so far. Yes, it took a bit of sacrifice and a lot of work but it was worth it. There's more to life than money.

[JohnMichael]

That's why marriage has traditionally been between a man and a woman, for all societies, since the beginning of time. That's the reason for the male/female pairing, not raw sex per se.





In classical antiquity, writers such as Herodotus,[1] Plato,[2] Xenophon,[3] Athenaeus[4] and many others explored aspects of same-sex love in ancient Greece. The most widespread and socially significant form of same-sex sexual relations in ancient Greece was between adult men and adolescent boys, known as pederasty. (However, marriages in Ancient Greece between men and women were also age structured, with men in their 30s commonly taking wives in their early teens.) Though homosexual relationships between adult men did exist, at least one member of each of these relationships flouted social conventions by assuming a passive sexual role. It is unclear how such relations between women were regarded in the general society, but examples do exist as far back as the time of Sappho.[5]

The ancient Greeks did not conceive of sexual orientation as a social identifier, as Western societies have done for the past century. Greek society did not distinguish sexual desire or behavior by the gender of the participants, but rather by the role that each participant played in the sex act, that of active penetrator or passive penetrated.[5] This active/passive polarization corresponded with dominant and submissive social roles: the active (penetrative) role was associated with masculinity, higher social status, and adulthood, while the passive role was associated with femininity, lower social status, and youth.[5


Homosexuality was not frowned upon in Greece. The Theban army was composed of a Sacred Band, battalions of men with male lovers on the battlefield with them. The thought was they would fight harder to save and impress the one they loved.

Remember, Alexander had male lovers.

Lucius Cornelius Sulla, Roman general and dictator, had many relationships with other males.

Julius Caesar was called the Queen of Bithnyia by his political enemies in Rome because of the time he spent in Anatolia with the King of Bithnyia when he was younger.

Believe it. Also, Alexander and Julius Caesar are two of the most worshiped men in history.



Shall I post more?

[markw]

And, where is Greece today?

[Hyfi]

That's a part of it but it's more of a "mating" of two bloodlines to pass the best of their genes, and possibly beliefs, on to another generation, not to mention financial /political continuity. That's why marriage has traditionally been between a man and a woman, for all societies, since the beginning of time. That's the reason for the male/female pairing, not raw sex per se.

Did you ever stop to think why religions preach male/female marriage to have children as you say? Maybe it's the same reason they frown upon suicide.

If you pump out babies, and don't kill yourself, more money goes into the collection plate. And lately, lots of that money is going to lawyers defending priests who have homosexually raped the male youth of their own churches.

[JohnMichael]

Did you ever stop to think why religions preach male/female marriage to have children as you say? Maybe it's the same reason they frown upon suicide.

If you pump out babies, and don't kill yourself, more money goes into the collection plate. And lately, lots of that money is going to lawyers defending priests who have homosexually raped the male youth of their own churches.

HebephiliaFrom Wikipedia, the free encyclopediaJump to: navigation, search
Hebephilia refers to the sexual preference for individuals in the early years of puberty (generally ages 11–14, though onset of puberty may vary). Girls typically begin the process of puberty at age 10 or 11; boys at age 12 or 13. Hebephilia differs from ephebophilia, which refers to the sexual preference for individuals in later adolescence,[1] and from pedophilia, which refers to the sexual preference for prepubescent children.[2] While individuals with a sexual preference for adults (i.e., teleiophiles) may have some sexual interest in pubescent-aged individuals,[3] the term hebephilia is reserved for those who prefer pubescent-aged individuals over adults. The term was introduced by Glueck (1955),[4] who later credited it, without citation, to Paul Benedict.[5]

Debate is ongoing over whether hebephilia is a mental disorder, with Ray Blanchard and a number of his colleagues from CAMH arguing for its inclusion in the DSM-5.[6] The proposal has been criticized by Richard Green,[7] Allen Frances,[8] Michael First (DSM-IV editor),[8][9] Karen Franklin,[10] Charles Allen Moser,[11] William O'Donohue,[12] and other mental health professionals on various grounds. The current draft of the DSM-5, on which Blanchard serves as as Chair of the Paraphilias Sub-Work Group,[13] includes Blanchard's proposal.[14]






I think we need to be accurate on our terms. Homosexuals do not rape male youth. They are busy looking for a consenting adult who would love to have a loving relationship. There are many same sex couples who have loving, committed, supportive relationships. They have the same hopes and dreams as their straight counterparts.

Please do not confuse homosexuals with pedophiles or hebephiles.