Islam: Our Partners in Peace...

[ForeverAutumn]

Thanks FA for clarifying for me. I should have known if any one here would respect another's belief it would be you.

I try very hard to be a tolerant person. I think that it's an important trait for everyone. If there was more tolerance in the world, there would be a lot less senseless death and less problems in general. I also learned a long time ago that arguing with someone over religion is futile. You have your beliefs and I have mine. It is something that we will never see eye-to-eye on, so what's the sense arguing over it. I'll never change anyone's beliefs just as they will never change mine. So instead of arguing, I accept our differences and instead spend my time trying to understand what makes people of faith feel so strongly about something that is so intangible.

[Feanor]

I try very hard to be a tolerant person. I think that it's an important trait for everyone. If there was more tolerance in the world, there would be a lot less senseless death and less problems in general. I also learned a long time ago that arguing with someone over religion is futile. You have your beliefs and I have mine. It is something that we will never see eye-to-eye on, so what's the sense arguing over it. I'll never change anyone's beliefs just as they will never change mine. So instead of arguing, I accept our differences and instead spend my time trying to understand what makes people of faith feel so strongly about something that is so intangible.

Wise people used to say, "Never argue religion or politics".

Good advice still if you goal is to maintain civility, but it's hard to resist when you know dogmatic religion and right-wing politics are destroying the world.

[JohnMichael]

Good advice still if you goal is to maintain civility, but it's hard to resist when you know dogmatic religion and right-wing politics are destroying the world.

Yes and being used to deny others their rights.

[markw]

Wise people used to say, "Never argue religion or politics".

Good advice still if you goal is to maintain civility, but it's hard to resist when you know dogmatic religion and right-wing politics are destroying the world.

Some might say that left wing politics are bankrupting europe even as we speak. not to mention the dictatorships in the middle east, africa, NK, etc, etc...

[Feanor]

Some might say that left wing politics are bankrupting europe even as we speak. not to mention the dictatorships in the middle east, africa, NK, etc, etc...

The Left-Right discussion is off this particular off-topic discussion. So sufficient to say that some "left wing" countries have gotten into trouble due to continual fiscal deficits, (Greece, Portugal, Ireland, Spain), some have not, e.g. Scandinavian countries, Netherlands, Denmark, Iceland, etc.. The usual reason for fiscal deficits is the failure to tax the middle and, especially, the wealthy classes -- of course, that's true too for the USA which isn't left-wing by any stretch of the imagination.

[markw]

The Left-Right discussion is off this particular off-topic discussion.

Perhaps, but if YOU had not brought it up here,:

Wise people used to say, "Never argue religion or politics".

Good advice still if you goal is to maintain civility, but it's hard to resist when you know dogmatic religion and right-wing politics are destroying the world.

...I would not have had cause to comment, would I? I know, I know... you just want to be able to throw out your little digs and quietly retreat into the distance, eh? A bit cowardly, isn't that? But, considering the source, it's not really surprising. It looks like that inflated ego of yours just won't let you drop an issue, shut up and move on, will it? So much for your show of wisdom, eh?

So sufficient to say that some "left wing" countries have gotten into trouble due to continual fiscal deficits, (Greece, Portugal, Ireland, Spain), some have not anywhere nearly the same extent, e.g. Scandinavian countries, Netherlands, Denmark, France, etc.. The usual reason for fiscal deficits is the failure to tax the middle and, especially, the wealthy classes -- of course, that's true too for the USA which isn't left-wing by any stretch of the imagination.

So, what's your point? Too many entitlements and not enough workers to pay for it. Remember, not all countries have a benevelont big brother directly to their south who they can hide behind. They are creaking under their own weight and can't go on forever.

And, to being this discussion back to it's original intent, you'll notice that the muslim incursion into the fabric of the european nations seems to be centered in the left-leaning nations. Looking at it that way, the more right they are, the less the threat seems to be, at least for now.

So, it looks like the right wing may actually be the salvation of the "free" world and, for the time being, that includes canada if they play ball.

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

So, it looks like the right wing may actually be the salvation of the "free" world and, for the time being, that includes canada if they play ball.

I guess if you look at the world through very tinted glasses, this would be true. I can't see clearly through those things, so I have no use for them.

[Feanor]

...
And, to being this discussion back to it's original intent, you'll notice that the muslim incursion into the fabric of the european nations seems to be centered in the left-leaning nations. Looking at it that way, the more right they are, the less the threat seems to be, at least for now.
...

I guess your concerns about Muslims in the the US are unfounded then?

...
So, it looks like the right wing may actually be the salvation of the "free" world and, for the time being, that includes canada if they play ball.

This is a non sequitur. Conditions in western nations, especially but not exclusively the USA, have become more and more right-wing since the late '70s at least. Here by "right-wing" I mean more perfectly capitalist, viz.

• More competitive, domestic and international
• More legally & financially consistent internationally, i.e. "free trade" treaties
• More innovative in terms of products & services
• More innovative in terms of production, logistic, and marketing technologies
• Less commercial regulation
• Less powerful labor unions
• Lower, (much lower), taxes on the wealthy.

Yet despite this "progress", the incomes of the poor and most of the middle class have declined. Their standards of living has been sustained only by (1) working spouses and working longer hours, (2) borrowing, and (3) cheap goods manufactured off-shore. Meanwhile the incomes of top 1% have increased exponentially.

During this 35 year interval, it's ironic but ultimately not surprising that deficits have increased most rapidly in the during conservative Republic administrations.

If you ideas were't so dominated by ideology, mythology, and religious bigotry, you might recognize these facts.

[markw]

I love how you flit back and forth between "right-wing" in a Chriatian based cou ntry and then, wbhen it suits your purposes, switch to an economic slant. I guess you can't stick to the subject at hand, can you?

It's funny that you try to jump all over me when you think I changes the subject, though.

In any case, I'm pretty sure we'll pull out of our problems but it may mean a bit of "tough love, which this administration doesn't seem to want to do. We're letting in too many freeloaders, mostly from the south who, after lowering the working wage, then take the entry-level jobs, live liks paupers off the map and depend on social services, send most of the money back to their home countries, mostly without paying taxes, and eventually go back there. We're slowly being bled to death.

So, what's our "leftist" president doing about all this? Ignoring it and, even more strange, is refusing to enforce existing laws against this.

Now, I would like to see the employeers on the hook and I do believe that in time we will but first, we must seal our borders. And, we should go after the financial sector for their abuses over the past which, BTW started under Clinton, a liberal if there ever was one.

And, as for offshoring our workforce, I believe we should penalize/tax the bejeezus out of the American companies that do this instead of giving them tax breaks, but lobbysts money speaks louder than their constituents words.

As for the "religious" threat that seems to worry you, at least on some of your posts here, don't fret it. The constitution and the populace won't allow that to happen. But, since I see numbers of "other" beliefs slowly exerting political influence here, (Dearborn) I wouldn't be surprised if we don't see some refinement to keep it that way. England, France, Germany are already in the throes of these issues and if we don't tighten it up, so will we. In fact, I just read today where a muslim group wants their religious symbol incorporatd into Russia's national crest. This should be interesting.

In a way you're lucky. Due to your countries benign impact on the world, both economically and politically, you're relatively immune to this kind of stuff.

[bobsticks]

Pe
So, what's your point? Too many entitlements and not enough workers to pay for it...

Too bad y'all didn't think of that when you invented social security...are those entitlements part of the "tough love"?


Ooops, I went off topic in the Off Topic...

[markw]

Too bad y'all didn't think of that when you invented social security...are those entitlements part of the "tough love"?


Ooops, I went off topic in the Off Topic...

Actually, SS started out as a good idea where workers paid into the system all their working lives and it generated interest. It got diluted when it was "raided" for other projects, interest went down, and the workforce shrunk, by natural and un-natural causes.