If Romney gets in which country will America start a war with next?

[Feanor]

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All people need to do is stop frivolous driving. Group several trips into one. Don't just drive around cause your bored. If it's all about supply and demand, lets create less demand. How many women do you see driving around every day in a giant SUV by themselves?

Yes, and to incentivize them, our nations need to adopt fossil fuel taxes that will raise the price of gas to a level were includes the "negative externalities", principally harm to the environment, pollution, and urban congestion.

Practically speaking fossil fuel taxes will need to be phased in overtime but the process should start now.

[thekid]

Yes, and to incentivize them, our nations need to adopt fossil fuel taxes that will raise the price of gas to a level were includes the "negative externalities", principally harm to the environment, pollution, and urban congestion.

Practically speaking fossil fuel taxes will need to be phased in overtime but the process should start now.

We are going to have to make a choice regarding the use of gas for fueling automobiles. We are either going to develop alternative methods for fueling cars or we are going to make a cultural shift to mass transportation. I don't see the later occurring because of a variety of factors. The search for an alternative fuel for automobiles is going to have to be a public/private venture in my opinion. The market at the moment makes it too easy to discourage development of alternative fuels. You just have to look at the sales of the Prius when gas was over $4 and what they were once it dropped back down to below $3.

[Feanor]

We are going to have to make a choice regarding the use of gas for fueling automobiles. We are either going to develop alternative methods for fueling cars or we are going to make a cultural shift to mass transportation. I don't see the later occurring because of a variety of factors. The search for an alternative fuel for automobiles is going to have to be a public/private venture in my opinion. The market at the moment makes it too easy to discourage development of alternative fuels. You just have to look at the sales of the Prius when gas was over $4 and what they were once it dropped back down to below $3.

This all true. People would flock to buy Prius if gas were $6/gal. This is exactly the effect a fossil tax would create. By the same token, if producers could get a $5/gal. equivalent for alternative fuels, they would flock to produce them.

Culture can change people especially where there's economic incentive. When Henry Ford produced the $500 Model T, people flocked to buy them which in incentivized road construction and the whole suburban life style & culture of the '50s.

[thekid]

This all true. People would flock to buy Prius if gas were $6/gal. This is exactly the effect a fossil tax would create. By the same token, if producers could get a $5/gal. equivalent for alternative fuels, they would flock to produce them.

Culture can change people especially where there's economic incentive. When Henry Ford produced the $500 Model T, people flocked to buy them which in incentivized road construction and the whole suburban life style & culture of the '50s.

The difference with your analogy on the Model T is the cost of the Model T relative to other forms of transportation at the time was that it was actually cheaper or at least comparable which is why people flocked to it. If you suddenly taxed gasoline it would in the short -term create a fair amount of economic damage and the public perception of taxes would not allow a fuel tax to be politically sustainable.The so-called "sin taxes" which have a similar purpose behind them like what you would look to achieve with a fuel tax are sustainable because it does not affect a large portion of the population.

[Feanor]

The difference with your analogy on the Model T is the cost of the Model T relative to other forms of transportation at the time was that it was actually cheaper or at least comparable which is why people flocked to it. If you suddenly taxed gasoline it would in the short -term create a fair amount of economic damage and the public perception of taxes would not allow a fuel tax to be politically sustainable.The so-called "sin taxes" which have a similar purpose behind them like what you would look to achieve with a fuel tax are sustainable because it does not affect a large portion of the population.

I hear you; and you're likely right about the public refusal. I only wanted to demonstrate that it would be a market-based way to motivate people and businesses to reduce usage.

Basically you're saying that there is no solution until the hurricanes and sea level rises wash away Florida and the Gulf Coast or supply just plain runs out. (I guess the former thanks to the discovery of frackable gas & oil.)

[thekid]

Basically you're saying that there is no solution until the hurricanes and sea level rises wash away Florida and the Gulf Coast or supply just plain runs out. (I guess the former thanks to the discovery of frackable gas & oil.)

No. I think the solution is a public/private partnership. Private industry will not seriously explore alternative fuel/electric vehicles until the market guarantees an immediate return on investment. Governments overseas pick industries they want to support in order to maximize their resources and create markets for their products. If a public/private venture could perfect an affordable vehicle that used alternative fuels (bio?) we could maintain manufacturing jobs here, increase exports and reduce carbon emissions.

My main point is that relying solely on the market or market forces has what has delayed the introduction of alternative fuel vehicles. Instead of innovation we get slogans like "Drill Baby Drill". That is not an energy plan unless the plan ecological extinction.

[Feanor]

No. I think the solution is a public/private partnership. Private industry will not seriously explore alternative fuel/electric vehicles until the market guarantees an immediate return on investment. Governments overseas pick industries they want to support in order to maximize their resources and create markets for their products. If a public/private venture could perfect an affordable vehicle that used alternative fuels (bio?) we could maintain manufacturing jobs here, increase exports and reduce carbon emissions.

My main point is that relying solely on the market or market forces has what has delayed the introduction of alternative fuel vehicles. Instead of innovation we get slogans like "Drill Baby Drill". That is not an energy plan unless the plan ecological extinction.

Well no & yes.

The discovery of "frackable" gas & oil is a huge bananza and has the potential to keep these fossil fuels cheap enough that feasible government subsidies will not make alternatives cheaper than traditional fuels.

Yes, market forces have delayed alternatives fuels -- and will continue to do so: see above. However if the "negative externalities" of coal, oil, and gas were included in the price, alternative energy types would be very competitive. This is why I like the idea of a tax of fossil fuels.

This not to say there is no place for government subsidy of alternative fuels, on the contrary. I also think there is plenty of room for mandating vehicle mileage standards.