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  1. #26
    Mutant from table 9
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    No one has mentioned the venerable Klipsch? I know a number of shops in my area that dropped Klipsch as a product line. One salesman claimed it was because they couldn't compete with Paradigm and B&W on the showfloor. I just think they shot themselves in the foot when the put entry level stuff in Best Buy. At least Yamaha is wise enough to maintain two "different" reciever lines for marketing purposes, one for stereo shops, one for Best Buy, ect.

  2. #27
    Forum Regular Florian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SlumpBuster
    No one has mentioned the venerable Klipsch? I know a number of shops in my area that dropped Klipsch as a product line. One salesman claimed it was because they couldn't compete with Paradigm and B&W on the showfloor. I just think they shot themselves in the foot when the put entry level stuff in Best Buy. At least Yamaha is wise enough to maintain two "different" reciever lines for marketing purposes, one for stereo shops, one for Best Buy, ect.
    Klipsch makes some very special loudspeaker which sing beautifully with tubes. But unfortunatly most stores you regualr equipment like Sony, Denon, Onkyo etc.. or B&K which dont match good with them. I like the Cornwalls, which another member owns in the gallery. They are very dynamic.
    Lots of music but not enough time for it all

  3. #28
    Forum Regular Woochifer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Florian
    I understand that and accept that, i just find it unacceptable that a company which made High End and defined the standards of that time is to be tossed in the same thread with BOSE or other speaker companys. Same as Wilson Audio. The next thing will properbly be Genesis and the Infinity IRS too just because they cost an arm and a leg.

    -Flo
    Nah, I don't have anything against classes of speakers just because they cost a lot or have a particular design. I mean, the best speaker I've heard in recent years was the Dynaudio Evidence Master. $80,000 for a pair of speakers, and praised by just about everyone, but IMO not overrated for the sound that they delivered.

    And at one of the audio shows I attended several years ago, I did get a chance to listen to the Infinity IRS -- easily the best of that or any other show from that era. Again, that was a speaker that lived up to its lofty expectations.

    For this thread, I don't think that it's appropriate to include Bose anyway, because outside of Consumer Reports, I don't know anybody who rates them at the top of their class. Hard to be overrated, when not a whole lotta people rate them at the top to begin with.

    Apogee and Wilson Audio get plenty of praise, and I just happened not to agree with it. The Dynaudio Evidence and Infinity IRS also get plenty of praise, and in those cases, I think it's well deserved.

  4. #29
    Forum Regular Florian's Avatar
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    Thats exactly what i find so interesting, in two reviews of the Apogee Scintilla they were compared and voted better than the Infinity IRS. They were more dynamic, better integration and sounded more real than the Infinity. I realy do not understand your comments on the Apogee's in general since they are all quite different than what i have heard. You are the first person to describe the Apogee's in that way that, ever. I realy asume, and believe that the Apogee's you listend to where setup wrong, wrong electonics or something. Because your observation does not match anybody elses. Also the Dynaudio is definetly not woth 80K$!! The integration between the drivers in not seemless and has not the "airy" midrange that or the transient midrange to tweeter response from a Ribbon or electrostatic speaker. In my opinion, that is one of those totally overprized speaker systems of our time. They are awsome, but they dont sound like 80K and this is the reason why i add Dynaudio.

    I think that we all made a mistake in saying "worst brands", we should have said "worst model". Because every company has its totally overpriced speakers.

    -Flo

    PS: As for overprized speakers i would add Apogee "The Grand" for 160K, Dynaudio Master for 130K (german price), Wilson Audio MaxII 180K, AN flagship 130K (i think) and the Martin Logan Statment E2 for 250K i think.

    All of those systems are awsome, but very very expensive and in realtion to what they do "overprized".
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  5. #30
    Forum Regular Woochifer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SlumpBuster
    No one has mentioned the venerable Klipsch? I know a number of shops in my area that dropped Klipsch as a product line. One salesman claimed it was because they couldn't compete with Paradigm and B&W on the showfloor. I just think they shot themselves in the foot when the put entry level stuff in Best Buy. At least Yamaha is wise enough to maintain two "different" reciever lines for marketing purposes, one for stereo shops, one for Best Buy, ect.
    I don't think Klipsch will make too many overrated lists because I think people generally know what their strengths and weaknesses are and freely acknowledge them. Their K-Horns have a huge legion of fans (myself included), but even the most ardent K-Horn fan will acknowledge its imperfections. The speakers that are asking for the "overrated" tag are probably the ones that more frequently get cited as reference speakers or the best in their class.

    As much as I like the Dynaudio Evidence and see how often it's regarded as a near perfect speaker, I'm sure that others will regard them as overrated. Same thing goes for Wilson Audio, Vandersteen, Thiel, B&W, and others. I know people who feel that Vandersteen is the truest representation of sound out there, while others can't stand them. Even frequently cited value performers like Paradigm will have their detractors who will call them overrated.

    And back to Klipsch, they are actually following Yamaha's two-tiered strategy. Basically, the Synergy series goes to Best Buy, while their Reference series and vintage products go to the specialty dealers. It's no different than how Yamaha distributes only the entry level receivers to mass merchants, and reserves their higher midlevel and flagship products for their specialty dealers.

    I don't know if you can say that Klipsch can't compete with B&W and Paradigm, because they do (Klipsch claims to be the best selling specialty speaker brand). In fact, their efficiency puts them at an advantage in A/B comparisons because they will be 5-10 db higher. Retailers are very sensitive about who else carries the products that they sell, and Klipsch is treading a very fine line if they want to keep their dealer network intact. Yamaha's held their network together, but they have lost some stores in recent years. JBL's a case study in what not to do when a decision is made to go after mass market distribution. When they went mass market, they got dropped in droves (just in time for the Canadian companies to emerge and fill that market segment) and now it's pretty much only the mass merchants like BB that carry their products in the U.S.

    Also keep in mind that Klipsch dropped a lot of their dealers last year because they caught those stores reselling speakers to unauthorized mail order/internet vendors.

  6. #31
    Forum Regular Florian's Avatar
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    Not to turn this into a Apogee Scintilla thread, but this is a quote from a Stereophile reivew.

    But, don't think the Scintillas are the speaker that will make every audiophile's life a bed of roses. No speaker is more demanding of the right setup. The Scintillas are the ideal speaker for Indiana Jones: you don't just buy a speaker, you begin an adventure. You must be willing to acquire the right electronics to drive this speaker (at 1-ohm), you must be willing to get the right cables (which last month's issue should make you realize is work), you may have to screw endlessly with VTA-and on top of all that you'll need one hell of a lot of patience, and maybe a new listening room! Few speakers can sound worse in the face of determined ignorance. With the wrong electronics and positioning, the Scintillas can easily degenerate into producing an unnatural sound, ending up as little more than a high end curiosity.

    They also are not going to be easy to audition adequately outside of your home. The speakers weighs 140Ibs each, and they require far more space and care than most dealers can afford to provide. Even in the best dealer showroom I know of - and I cheerfully admit to a horrendous bias and conflict of interest based on the fact that Bobby Taylor of Excalibur Audio is a close personal friend - the Scintillas are demonstrated at a level of performance that only roughly approximates how well they sound in my living room. Most dealers will either have to sell them on their looks (splendid!) or on the pure technology
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  7. #32
    Forum Regular Woochifer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Florian
    Thats exactly what i find so interesting, in two reviews of the Apogee Scintilla they were compared and voted better than the Infinity IRS. They were more dynamic, better integration and sounded more real than the Infinity. I realy do not understand your comments on the Apogee's in general since they are all quite different than what i have heard. You are the first person to describe the Apogee's in that way that, ever. I realy asume, and believe that the Apogee's you listend to where setup wrong, wrong electonics or something. Because your observation does not match anybody elses.
    And I think this is where you are getting off track. You are presuming why I don't like the Apogees (I have not heard the Scintillas, so I cannot comment on that particular model) as if it's impossible not to like them. Sorry, but for the type of listening that I do, they did not fit. And the opinions that you're drawing from are mostly people who own the speakers or are big fans of them. The Apogees have been discontinued since the mid-90s, so not a whole lot of people with a less emotionally attached viewpoint have been able to hear them recently.

    It does not matter if you found a couple of reviews that praised the Scintillas more than the Infinity IRS -- again, those are OPINIONS. I heard the Apogee full range and the IRS at the same audio show (using different electronics and in different rooms), and for my listening, it wasn't even close. The IRS happened to fit my preferences, while the Apogees did not, and consistently left me scratching my head as to what all the hype was about. If you say it's all in the electronics, then how come every Apogee setup at a high end audio show and at the store where my friend worked gave me the same impression?

    I'm not faulting anyone for enjoying the Apogees or any other ribbon speaker for that matter. It's just that in all my listenings, I've only liked one ribbon speaker and that happened to be a hybrid model with a dynamic subwoofer. Other speakers with ribbon tweeters I've also liked.

    Quote Originally Posted by Florian
    Also the Dynaudio is definetly not woth 80K$!! The integration between the drivers in not seemless and has not the "airy" midrange that or the transient midrange to tweeter response from a Ribbon or electrostatic speaker. In my opinion, that is one of those totally overprized speaker systems of our time. They are awsome, but they dont sound like 80K and this is the reason why i add Dynaudio.
    In a large room, the Evidence Master was about as close to a perfect rendering from top to bottom as I have ever heard. It added a new dimension of listening and revealed new details from all of my test discs, with no audible flaws. I cannot say this about any other speaker that I have heard in the last decade. All of the planar and panel speakers that I've heard recently had audible flaws or inconsistencies of some kind, but that applies to all other speakers that I've heard as well.

    I'm not going to spend $80,000 of a pair of speakers, but at least the Evidence Master can make a case for itself IMO.

  8. #33
    Forum Regular Florian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Woochifer
    In a large room, the Evidence Master was about as close to a perfect rendering from top to bottom as I have ever heard. It added a new dimension of listening and revealed new details from all of my test discs, with no audible flaws. I cannot say this about any other speaker that I have heard in the last decade. All of the planar and panel speakers that I've heard recently had audible flaws or inconsistencies of some kind, but that applies to all other speakers that I've heard as well.

    I'm not going to spend $80,000 of a pair of speakers, but at least the Evidence Master can make a case for itself IMO.
    Thats what i disagree on, the Dynaudio does not have a almost perfect integration of the drivers nor does it reveal more information from the source. Nor are they worth the 80000$ that they ask for them, nor do they make a case for themselves being worth 80K. The Dynaudio is not neutral and has a tendency to sound warm and friendly from my experience with them. The Apogee is about as neutral as one can get, wich again brings me to the crossovers and the modular box design of the master. The Master only has one advantage in my book, and that is that they are relatively easy to setup in most rooms as to where the Apogee's, SoundLab's, Magnepan's or other panel speakers are a lot more difficult. There are only a few true reference speakers in my book and that is the Scintilla, FR (not heard yet), MG20.1, Sound Labs Ultimate and the Genesis 1.1 speaker system.

    I think we can agree on the point that we disagree. I seriously dont think that the Master is worth anywhere near the 80000$ asking price, and you think that the Apogee's are overprized. But then again all the Apogee's modells exept the Grand series were affordable, while the Master or Wilson are not.

    -Flo
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  9. #34
    BooBs are elitist jerks shokhead's Avatar
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    Most seems to have the same crap list,what about best bang for the buck speakers?
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  10. #35
    Forum Regular Florian's Avatar
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    This entire thread is absolutly pointless and does not help anyone, no matter how hard we try. Everyone hears different, and what i fnd GODLIKE other people just wont. Lets talk about all the new subscribers that are causing trouble in the forums and gallerys.
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  11. #36
    Forum Regular Woochifer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Florian
    I think we can agree on the point that we disagree. I seriously dont think that the Master is worth anywhere near the 80000$ asking price, and you think that the Apogee's are overprized. But then again all the Apogee's modells exept the Grand series were affordable, while the Master or Wilson are not.o
    I think something's getting lost in the translation. Wasn't this thread about "overrated" speaker brands?

    My comments about Wilson and Apogee were about my listening impressions of those speakers relative to the amount of hype and praise that they receive. The Apogees in their era were some of the most widely acclaimed speakers out there. In my listenings, I simply failed to see the merit of that acclaim, which is why I've long regarded them as overrated. I'm not saying that they're bad speakers, only that in my opinion they don't measure up to the greatness that their proponents claim.

    Wilson Audio currently gets the same kind of praise and attention, and based on my listening of the Sophias, I don't think they warrant all the praise that they get either.

    I've already said my piece about the Dynaudio Evidence. If it lives up to the hype and high expectations, then it's not overrated IMO, not matter how high the price might be. The Evidence Master might well be overpriced, but it's definitely not overrated.

  12. #37
    Forum Regular Florian's Avatar
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    First let me say that you cannot base your decision on the worst brands on 1 or two speakers out of their entire range. Secondly, the Master is overhyped and there is no question about it. In my recent Audiophile magazine they received a 25 point rating which mould make it almost as good as the Apogee Studio Grand 27 points (mid Grand sereis) which many consider infirior to the Fullranges. The Scintilla was 10K and acording to this review is better or equal than the Master for 80K, which makes it in my book overhyped and overprized. There is no loss in translation. If you judge a company by 1 product, than i will do the same and herby consider Dynaudio as a overrated brand.

    -Flo
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  13. #38
    M.P.S.E /AES/SMPTE member Sir Terrence the Terrible's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Florian
    First let me say that you cannot base your decision on the worst brands on 1 or two speakers out of their entire range. Secondly, the Master is overhyped and there is no question about it. In my recent Audiophile magazine they received a 25 point rating which mould make it almost as good as the Apogee Studio Grand 27 points (mid Grand sereis) which many consider infirior to the Fullranges. The Scintilla was 10K and acording to this review is better or equal than the Master for 80K, which makes it in my book overhyped and overprized. There is no loss in translation. If you judge a company by 1 product, than i will do the same and herby consider Dynaudio as a overrated brand.

    -Flo
    Don't equipment reviewers in mags have opinions like we do? Comparing reviews that are months apart is not very informational. A side by side comparison with more than one opinion would be more credible to me.

    I do not think any speaker is worth as much as a car, don't care what kind of engineering went into them. Do you really think there is more engineering and parts in a speaker than in a car? These are statement pieces, and I am not sure what statement you are making with a speaker that costs almost as much as a house, and more than a top of the line BMW
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  14. #39
    Forum Regular Woochifer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Florian
    First let me say that you cannot base your decision on the worst brands on 1 or two speakers out of their entire range. Secondly, the Master is overhyped and there is no question about it. In my recent Audiophile magazine they received a 25 point rating which mould make it almost as good as the Apogee Studio Grand 27 points (mid Grand sereis) which many consider infirior to the Fullranges. The Scintilla was 10K and acording to this review is better or equal than the Master for 80K, which makes it in my book overhyped and overprized. There is no loss in translation. If you judge a company by 1 product, than i will do the same and herby consider Dynaudio as a overrated brand.

    -Flo
    Secondly, the Master is overhyped and there is no question about it.

    Hmmm, that's a pretty grandiose statement to make considering that in my listening they were about as good a listening as I have heard in the past 15 years. I've never had a comparably revelatory listening experience with any of the Apogee models I've heard (nor too many other speakers in my lifetime for that matter). "No question about it" -- are you somehow elevating your qualitative assessments into the factual rhelm?

    It doesn't matter what audio magazine reviews you come up with to support your conclusions. If anything, it just adds to my case about Apogee being overrated, since you're just adding to the hype and the insistent voices that don't correspond to what I've heard in my listenings. The full range models and Duettas that I listened to at length in the mid-80s I regarded as overrated back then, and a new set of reviews does nothing to change that now.

    And don't start putting words in my mouth. I've never mentioned Apogee as one of the "worst" brands. I wouldn't even call their speakers bad or mediocre. This thread was about "overrated", and comparing how the Apogees sound in my listenings with how highly they've been rated over the years, that's how I came up with my assessment.

    Seems that you're letting your emotions get the better of yourself. You've placed your faith in the Apogees and will defend them to the very end. That's fine, but just don't expect that everybody will be a convert to your temple.

    If you want to rate Dynaudio as overrated, I don't care either way. I don't own anything from them, and have no attachment to them one way or another. But, since you're all about rating a company based on their entire lineup, is that opinion of Dynaudio based on just the Evidence line, or does it also include their Audience, Contour, and Confidence lines? Or are you just putting Dynaudio on the overrated list because you somehow think that's a tit-for-tat response to my stated opinion? I would hope it's not the latter, because it would be quite childish if that was the case.

  15. #40
    BooBs are elitist jerks shokhead's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Florian
    This entire thread is absolutly pointless and does not help anyone, no matter how hard we try. Everyone hears different, and what i fnd GODLIKE other people just wont. Lets talk about all the new subscribers that are causing trouble in the forums and gallerys.
    Whats up with that? Take a deep breath and calm down.
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  16. #41
    RGA
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    This is a strange thread because overrated and price doesn't necessarily matter or intertwine. The Dynaudio Evidence and B&W Model nautilus are statement products with hefty price tags and sound excellent.

    What is a good value to one person may very well be atrocious to another so this thread is just begging for argument. While I probably like the Wilson Sophia more than Woochifer I also can't help agreeing with them that it is grossly overrated simply because at $16,000Cdn I feel you can do better for ~$3k but that doesn't really make the speaker bad but I suppose it sure doesn't mean it should get the glory it does either. I think what is missed here is that one can LIKE a speaker and still feel it's overrated.

    Overrated is being mixed up with price and material cost when really it is completely subjective. I always laugh when people say Julia Roberts is overrated -- but not really -- there are actresses and there are stars -- her Star calibur is mixed up with her acting talent -- I happen to like her but I think there are better actresses who are less well known out there...so her stardom rises above her ability. Thus, perhaps Wilson stardom in the Audio press rises above the musicality of the speaker.

    Of course try telling that to a Wilson Lover. There are tones of popular speakers I think are overrated - maybe one of the biggest two examples in recent memory are the Snell B-Minor and the Castle Eden and the Martin Logan Aerius i. The latter I actually liked but not for the money the first one to me was a mess and the Eden was overly polite. They all got rave reviews (what doesn't).

    The problem here is that since everything gets raves by someone then all we need to fdo is find anything we don;t care for and then "well item A is overrated". I for insance have never been thrilled with Mirage or Vandersteen, Legacy, or the Thiel I heard -- they have huge supporters -- I can't call them overrated because people love them - they're overrated to me because they get lots of praise and they don't generally agree with my tastes -- so I would not put even 1/4 the asking price out for these. Other people would think they're the steals of the century.

  17. #42
    Forum Regular Florian's Avatar
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    RGA said exactly what i ment.
    I consider these brands as overrated to my ears.

    1. BOSE
    2. Martin Logan
    3. B&W
    4. Dynaudio
    5. Kef
    6. AN-K (older model, and may have had the wrong setup)

    -----...well pretty much every box exept

    1. VMPS (incredibly fast, dynamic, neutral, transparency) thats why i bought it
    2. Avalon
    3. Kharma
    4. Thiehl
    5. Genesis
    6. Infinity IRS or the old Prelude MTS

    The below stated loudspeakers i like, because they are neutral, have a huge soundstage and sound not like a box.

    -Flo
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  18. #43
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    B&W- Never really cared for their sound much but some people seem to enjoy them. I think they are overpriced for what you get (i think the least expensive nautilus speaker is $1000 for a bookshelf). I do like the way their mid drivers look though.
    BOSE- I dont' like anything that rhymes with blows.
    DefTech Mythos- They didn't have the soundstage their bipolars have so I was disappointed with the way they sounded. I guess they would work if you wanted a sleek looking speaker to go with a plasma, but i think plasmas just give you more room for bigger speakers =).
    I also agree about the Martin Logans though the bass drivers aren't really meant for low bass reproduction. If they reproduced really low frequencies the driver would probably have a problem keeping up with the stat portion. Most people probably buy them for looks.
    Definitive Technology Fan, Owner and Advocate!!!!! never paying retail IS half the fun of buying audio products!!!! Good shopping!

  19. #44
    RGA
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    Quote Originally Posted by Florian
    RGA said exactly what i ment.
    I consider these brands as overrated to my ears.

    1. BOSE
    2. Martin Logan
    3. B&W
    4. Dynaudio
    5. Kef
    6. AN-K (older model, and may have had the wrong setup)

    -----...well pretty much every box exept

    1. VMPS (incredibly fast, dynamic, neutral, transparency) thats why i bought it
    2. Avalon
    3. Kharma
    4. Thiehl
    5. Genesis
    6. Infinity IRS or the old Prelude MTS

    The below stated loudspeakers i like, because they are neutral, have a huge soundstage and sound not like a box.

    -Flo

    Of course I don;t feel you can really put the AN K on the list -- Unless you can point to the piles of ga-ga reviews for it. To be overrated people have to Rate-It if you will. AN generally is not a mainstream product and does not actively seek out reviews. The AN K has been selling since 1990 in relative obscurity -- but selling nevertheless.

    Bose -- well I don't think they can be on the list for the simple reason that no one overrates them (other than people on forums perhaps).

    I might be inclined to agree with ML and Totem not that they;re bad but overpriced IMO for the sonic results you get -- but in both cases sonics isn;t the only or perhaps even the main reason you buy those speakers -- they have striking visual appeal and to many that counts a lot. In fact I'd have to take Castle back because they are not really mainstream in the press either nor did the Eden get universal praise.

    And i don;t think you can go after entire companies anyway -- I can find certain B&W and Paradigm products overrated and then in the same breath find some that could be underrated -- the Monitor 3 doesn;t seem to get the notoriaty it perhaps deserves -- at least to me it's a better value than some more touted models.

  20. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by topspeed
    The "B" word, obviously.



    Vandersteen simply baffles me. Here is a company that has serious cred in the hi-end arena and yet their speakers leave me completely cold. Same with Sonus Faber. Both are the epitome of "laid back" with the SF's throwing in a good deal of color for good measure. The SF's are beautiful to be sure, but it seems like the considerable coin that you have to shell out pays more for the cabinetry and lineage than the sound quality.

    .
    And I really like the Vandersteen sound. I guess that's why there are so many speaker brands out there.

  21. #46
    Forum Regular Florian's Avatar
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    Well thats exactly what i mean. I did not want to put AN on here, but other members judge entire companys based on one or two speakers. I respect AN electronics a lot for instance eventough they are picky when it comes to matching but nonetheless the turntables and preamps are outstanding regardless of price. I really dont like that Apogee was put there, since they never were a mainstream product and they made High End. But if i have to judge a company by one product, then i have to put AN on there eventough i do not agree with it.

    -Flo
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  22. #47
    RGA
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    Apogee did get universal press reviews however -- and it should ALWAYS be about the specific product not the whole company based off one product. I can;t speak to the specific Apogee but it is not right to knock the Scintilla based say onan audition of a lower model. There is a But here though. For instance if the lower panel is the same house sound and uses similar design and IF most people who have heard say several agree that they sound very much the same but one has more bass then it's fair to say you might not or you might like others in the line.

    The distinction though is important -- you don't judge magnepan off the MMG but if you heard the 3.6 and someone who's owned both tells you the MMG is basically a stripped down version with less bass etc and you're not a bass hound to start with then you would probably have a pretty decent idea what you're in for.

    For instance if someone listened to the AN J I feel they would probably have a fair idea of what the E would be like since both speakers are designed similarly and use the same exact drivers and are both ported designs. The K is a sealed box uses a smaller tweeter by a different company, a different woofer by a different company, different surround materials etc. It has an entirely different bass character and isn't nearly as open in the treble - OTOH it isn't nearly as expensive.

    Now if you listen to the 100V2 and the 40V2 other than bass there isn;t a whole lot of real difference between the two -- same drivers, same cabinet material, same design concept etc. I heard every speaker in the line.

    To save time this go around I listened to the 100V3 and once again the lower models use the same design drivers cabinet materials etc -- so i feel pretty confident I'll know with pretty good accuracy how the lower models will sound - ditto for Energy C series, PSB Stratus Energy etc - basically they add a woofer/crossover point and more immitation wood.

    I know of exactly 2 reviews of the AN K that have ever been done -- and one of those was mine (which really doesn't count beyond a few hundred forumers who MIGHT MAYBE bothered to read it). The other review I know of was done in 1992 by Hi-fi Choice which you can't get anywhere now. That is very different from a company that when you type a google search you can get 20 reviews by major magazines with pages of stuff on them.

    There are speakers I think are not very good and way overpriced but they are not necessarily overrated...and it's the height of arrogance to think that what I think is overrated actually is overated -- just overrated to me...but then in some ways if you are looking at 10 highly reviewed and hyped $3k speakers and you pick one over the others and you really only liked 3 of them then the other 7 would be overrated to you.

    I find nothing in Vandersteen or Thiel that excited me -- they are hyped heavily and to be frank I don't get the praise over Quad panels I've heard over the years.

  23. #48
    AR "Wisdom of Yoda"Member LEAFS264's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Florian
    This entire thread is absolutly pointless and does not help anyone, no matter how hard we try. Everyone hears different, and what i fnd GODLIKE other people just wont. Lets talk about all the new subscribers that are causing trouble in the forums and gallerys.



    Who did you mean?? What kind of trouble??

  24. #49
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    i would say
    B&W- the 805s are appalling (!!!)
    Bang and Olufsen
    Bose
    Jamo with exception of D8/Concert series
    Cerwin Vega
    PMC

  25. #50
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    The Quads are not overrated

    The Quads are definitely not overrated, for less than ~800USD for a working pair of Quad 57s and suitable amplification it will knock the spots off many loudspeakers, the midrange of this ancient speaker is thoroughly superb, I can see why it has remained popular over the years, it has limitations such as the absence of very deep bass (subwoofer required), limited positioning options (the source of bad sound in many dealer showrooms) and limited loudness capability, but get past those issues and you will be rewarded with superb sound.

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