To sub, or not to sub. That is the question.

[GMichael]

Thanks GM. I plan on setting the eq manually as well. I don't know....I just don't trust the auto eq. I guess I'd have to do measurements eventually to see if there are any improvements or not. I will say that the Audyssey on the Onkyo 805 was sweet. VERY good for music but soso for HT. The response was sooo smooth, but at the same time it seemed like it took some of the dynamics away from HT.

That's good news about the memory settings. I will have to take the time to experiment now.

Anytime LJ. I found about the same thing. The auto EQ seemed to make everything sound a little softer. But it was too agressive and rolled off the highs too much for me.
You'll like those settings. Lot's of tweeking can be done. Just keep the volume low when running that set-up CD.

[GMichael]

The question should be:
"Does your system sound good to you however you have it set up?"
Whether you have a sub or not is not really the issue rather that you are happy with what you have.
You may like the addition of a sub due to your requirement of that extra octave, or half an octave, that they can provide and no amount of convincing will alter that desire.
Conversely, you may not have a sub and do not like the way they sound and therefore no amount of convincing will alter that perception.
I do not have a sub and I doubt that I ever will have one, but that is the way I like it. My speakers and amp have plenty of bass grunt for my requirements.
Having said all of the above, I have listended to a variety of sub installations and find that they are generally not implemented very well. Some tracks may sound ok or very good whereas others the bass is boomy and/or overpowering, disjointed, sloppy and very unnatural. It would need to be a very well set up sub to seemlessly work with my current full range speaker set up and this is a notoriously difficult thing to achieve. Realistically, a sub needs to be designed in conjuction with the full range speakers and room acoustics combined.

Thanks for your input Lance. Many people feel the same way you do about subs. Some want no part of them. Others just want to turn them on, and turn them up. Nothing wrong with that if that's what they like. But they could sound so much better if a little time and effort was put in to setting them up corectly.
I think that if more people with subs were to take that time, then there would be fewer people who want no part of them.
Does any of this make sense, or am I just rambling again?

In any rate, I've found that I don't need a sub when listening to music. My speakers do a good job of getting down to 27 htz on their own. But for HT? There's no sub for a sub IMO.

[Lance B]

Thanks for your input Lance. Many people feel the same way you do about subs. Some want no part of them. Others just want to turn them on, and turn them up. Nothing wrong with that if that's what they like. But they could sound so much better if a little time and effort was put in to setting them up corectly.
I think that if more people with subs were to take that time, then there would be fewer people who want no part of them.
Does any of this make sense, or am I just rambling again?

In any rate, I've found that I don't need a sub when listening to music. My speakers do a good job of getting down to 27 htz on their own. But for HT? There's no sub for a sub IMO.

No, you're not rambling at all! :-)

Correct speaker placement is VERY undervalued by many people.

In years past, I have used a sine wave generator and a sound level meter to ascertain how a room can play havoc with the frequency response ESPECIALLY the bass region. High frequecies are not as affected as they are directional and it is only really the reflected sound that is affected here, which of course is important in itself, but obviously in a different way.

With these instruments, I plugged the generator into the line level input of my amp and I set it to various bass frequency and measured the resultant output with the sound level meter at various points in the room. It is amazing to see how low frequencies like say 60Hz can double up in one spot and then I move 2 feet to the left and it completely disappears!!!

Interestingly, I have used two different sets of speakers in my home Hi Fi and they both sound the best when situated in the same position. It took me many hours of listening to achieve the best speaker placement and I am talking about moving them only inches to achieve what I consider the best sound.

In some situations subs are beneficial, like with bookshelf speakers which require the augmentation in the bass region. If set up well, they can sound excellent and can be a good compromise when a large floor standing speaker is not possible due to the room sixe/decor or not condoned by the partner. The best set up requires a sub that does not sound disjointed from the rest of the system, nor is over powering, muddy or boomy, IMO. Of course, there are some that like the "larger than life" bass sound as you say.

I am not a real HT afficionado, but I must say that when listening to the right movie sound tracks, a good sub is very beneficial.

[GMichael]

I remember years ago, back when subs were not a household word. It seemed that getting a speaker to hit really low was one of the hardest things to get right. You'd have to spend a good chunk of change to get real base. Somehow, that became the mark of a good stereo to many people. Somewhere along the way, that got exagerated. First in cars, and then in homes. Now most average people expect a "good" system to crank out 110+ db at 60 htz. Nevermind what the rest of the system sounds like.