Small Subwoofer?

[Redbeard]

I just put together an entry level audiophile H/T and music system comprising of an NAD T753 receiver and a full set of new Focal JM Labs Chorus S speakers. The system sounds incredible with amazing clarity and suprising bass down to 55hz from the 5" in the speakers. The problem is I would like to have more of a bass presence especially with the range down to around 25hz. The problem is that I live in a duplex and do not want to blow the neighbors sox off and get evicted. I am looking for a sub that will produce super tight, fast hitting bass to match the speakers. After listening to Tone Loc's Wild Thing I heard the speakers bottom out horribly on the bass notes and new I seriously lacked a subwoofer.

Don't get me wrong the speakers sound awesome with almost anything that is thrown at them and sometimes I dont even think they need a sub if you can believe that, to make a long story short I am looking for suggestions for a smaller sub that will provide tight, clean fast hitting bass without blowing the roof off. I looked into the matching focal sub but it only goes down to 40hz.

I have considered the Def Tech Pro sub 80, the Hsu Research STF 1, and several small M&K subs like the VX-7 series II. Someone also suggested the Canton AS22.

Anyhelp is greatly appreciated.

[skeptic]

"The problem is I would like to have more of a bass presence especially with the range down to around 25hz. The problem is that I live in a duplex and do not want to blow the neighbors sox off and get evicted. I am looking for a sub that will produce super tight, fast hitting bass to match the speakers."

That is a contradiction. The kind of bass you are looking for WILL blow the neighbor's socks off and you will sooner or later be looking for a new place to live unless you reach an accomodation with them such as what time they will not be around to get annoyed.

Try Parts Express. The Titanic III looks like a winner. If you can spend an hour building a very simple kit, you can save a couple of hundred bucks.

http://www.partsexpress.com/webpage....ge_ID=242#kits

[Redbeard]

True, what I ment was a sub with a smaller amp like the ones I stated. To rephrase: What is the best small sub for music and H/T based on tightness and musicality? My objective is to play the system when he is not home and keep it lower as to not knock his roof off when he is home. I want something that will simply round out my system.

[Eric Z]

You might have considered this already, but just want to be sure. Try not on buy HT equipment on where you live now (especially if you are renting- not sure if you're renting or not). The reason I mention this is what if you buy a smaller sub just to please your neighbors. Then move to a bigger place in the near future. Just my $.02!

Regarding the smaller subs (around 8"). I checked out the Def Tech PS80 and the Canton AS22. I ended up going with the PS80. The Canton was nice, but inferior to the PS80 IMO. I don't know much about the Hsu, but from what I read, it seems pretty nice! Fyi, the PS80 retails for around $350. Please do not pay that price. I got mine for $275 from an authorized dealer. If you have any questions about bargaining, please let me know.

Good luck and enjoy!
Eric

[Redbeard]

Thanks for the info, I just signed a two year lease and landlord lives next door- I hope to be here for a while, I do not mind selling and upgrading my speakers I am a freqeunt ebayer. I am really interested in the PS80 is the base tight? Some have said it is boomy at higher volumes? I used to own a paradigm PDR10 so that is all I have to compare it to, though I have heard many others.

[Eric Z]

From what I've heard the PS80 is pretty sensitive to placement. I've been remodeling for a little while so my HT equipment has been all over. Mine only sounds a little boomy at very high volumes with songs or movies that have loser bass (i.e some R&B or rap).

Remember that this is an entry level sub, so sometimes it's difficult to compare it to others. Make sure you compare apples to apples. Some reviews are negative because it doesn't sound like this $500 or $600 sub. It shouldn't sound like a $500 or $600 because it's only a $300 sub!!

Are you able to demo one at home? If I were to do it again, I would demo a PS80 and some other subs at home before making a final decision. I don't say this because I think it's not performing well; I say this before I want to ensure I'm making the best decision possible. It's also difficult to listen in the retail "showroom" because the odds are the room size and set up isn't exactly as yours at home.

In addition, I didn't have anything to compare the PS80 to. I only had 2 channel before the sub.

Good luck.

[goatspeed]

Take a look at a SVS 25-31pci. It has the kind of bass you are looking for. You'll have to keep it low...but you'll have that with whatever sub you look at, unless it's not very good.

[mtrycraft]

Thanks for the info, I just signed a two year lease and landlord lives next door- I hope to be here for a while, I do not mind selling and upgrading my speakers I am a freqeunt ebayer. I am really interested in the PS80 is the base tight? Some have said it is boomy at higher volumes? I used to own a paradigm PDR10 so that is all I have to compare it to, though I have heard many others.

You have a problem: you want good bass and you live in an apartment.

Buying a small sub with a small amp will not serve you much. It woun't go down to low frequencies that is audible and won't give you the punch you are looking for.

You could get a good sub and just throttle it back. When the complex is empty, you turn it up. You move and you already have a good sub

[chimera128]

That's why you use that sub for a bedroom system and upgrade when the time comes =). It's amazing how many times people recommend SVS subs when someone says they are looking for a small subwoofer. Not all of us want a refrigerator-sized (even a beer fridge sized ) subwoofer in our living rooms. Now I could understand it if the guy says he wants a good performing cheap subwoofer, but he clearly stated something small that goes to the 25hz range. In terms of blowing out the neighbors, that is when we ellicit the little knob commonly known as "volume". I have no experience with Athena subs, but I would definitely listen to it before you buy it if at all possible. Though reviews can be helpful at best and give you a direction in terms of which subs you might want to add to your list, remember that it is your list and your ears that will have to live with that sub. $300 is $300 and I don't know anyone that would want to have a $300 piece of crap in their living room. If you do decide to go with a Definitive Technology model I would at least get the ProSub 100TL. You should be able to get it for around $350 or so. M.S.R.P. is just a suggestion and I'm sure most of us have never bought our equipment at retail (at least I hope so or I owe the salesperson an apology () =)). Don't be afraid to ask for 20% off, although I would try to find an ad at a local store offering at least 10% or so before you do it. Ultimate Electronics usually runs an ad of at least 10% off Definitive Technology products, and I have been able to negotiate prices down on most other brands of speakers as well. I just haven't bought them. Whatever you end up getting I hope that it fits your needs and brings a smile to your face. Good luck!

[Woochifer]

As others have pointed out, getting down to 25 Hz and keeping things quiet for next door neighbors is a contradiction in terms. The wavelengths for notes that low are such that they easily travel through walls and interact in unpredictable ways both within your room and as they pass through walls into adjoining areas. A bass note that sounds normal from your listening position could actually sound louder and unbearably boomy next door. That's just the way that room acoustics work. In my house, I use a parametric equalizer to eliminate the room induced peaks at my listening position, but that doesn't stop the bass from sounding much boomier in the kitchen.

As far as which model to go with, there are plenty of very small subwoofers (cubes less than 12") that can still belt out notes that go way deep. REL, Velodyne, and Sunfire among others make tiny subwoofers that can go past 25 Hz. But, these models are very expensive (the Velodynes and Sunfires I believe start around $1,500), and therein lies the rub. In order to get that kind of extension from a small cabinet size, they rely on drivers with very long throws and require very powerful amps to get that decent output. Components that meet those requirements aren't cheap. It's easier to go with a larger cabinet and driver. It will give you the same extension, not require as powerful an amp, and cost less, but you got that large cabinet to deal with.

If you want a "tighter" sounding sub, then you'll probably want to go with a sealed sub because of their generally quicker transient response. Their advantages are that tighter sound, and more extended lows. Their disadvantages are that they are less efficient, the bass begins to drop off sooner than with a ported sub (but declines slower), and they can have higher distortion as the driver excursion increases in the lower frequencies. Those smaller high output subs that I mentioned are all sealed designs. If you're looking for something less expensive, then your range of options is very limited since your price point appears to be around $500. I have one of Adire's $400 Rava subs, which is a 12" sealed sub that has serviceable output well below 25 Hz. However, it is 18" on the outside, which might be too big for what you're looking for.

One option that seems to fit all of your requirements is the $600 Rocket UFW-10. It is a sealed 10" sub with an exterior dimension of 13" and available in a gloss rosewood or maple finish. From what I've read, it has decent extension (not quite as deep as the SVS, Hsu, or Adire options, but still very good) and it looks good.

http://www.av123.com/products_produc...rs&product=1.1

If you're looking at DIY options and looks are a priority, then I suggest that you contact some other sources as well. Acoustic Visions is one of Adire's major resellers and they offer a wide variety of finishes with their cabinets. Of course, the cost escalates once you opt for fancy veneers and better looking finishes.

http://www.acoustic-visions.com/~aco...painting.shtml

And as for why Hsu subs have ugly finishes. The answer is simple -- the majority of people who opt for one of their lower level subs would rather save a few extra bucks than pay more for a fancier finish. The Hsus have a great reputation for how they sound, and for around $350, their performance is what people are looking for. If you want the option for a better looking cabinet, then their $800 VTF-3 model is available in a piano black finish or rosewood veneer. Of course, that will cost you extra.

[bobhaze]

Check out the Cambridge SoundWorks P500.
http://www.cambridgesoundworks.com/s...zzz&type=store
It's a sealed box with dual 8" woofers on opposing sides. As a result, it doesn't transmit mechanical vibrations into the floor, which can be a great help in an apartment. I don't have this model, but my brother-in law does so I've had lots of opportunities to listen. It's one of the cleanest sounding woofers I've heard and IMHO is more than competitive with a lot of the well known and highly reviewed woofers in just about every area except maximum SPL capability. CSW has an in-home trial period so you can audition it at home where it counts instead of in a store with unknown acoustics and the wrong electronics.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...sPageName=WDVW

[Redbeard]

One thing I find interesting here is that no one has metioned one of the small M&K subs (VX-7, VX100. K-9, k-10 etc ) which is quite a surprise to me...

Also I love the rocket sub but the price is a bit high at $600- I am leaning toward the Parts Express kit as it seems very good and is cheaper.

[goatspeed]

t's amazing how many times people recommend SVS subs when someone says they are looking for a small subwoofer.

Hehe, well I thought 16" wide and 30" tall was small. Mine is 16" wide and 39" tall and hides behind a chair nicely. 30 inches tall is just a baby SVS.

[This Guy]

If you go with the Partsexpress kit, only get the 12" or higher. The 10" isn't a very good value when you compare it to the Rava at similar prices. The 12" will go about as loud as the Rava, if not a little louder. But the Partsexpress kit does have the Parametric equalizer in it, which I hear is pretty much a necessity in most rooms. With the kits you do obivously get more for your money, because if Velodyne or someone made the sub it would retail for close to a grand. PE also has a discussion board ("ask the pros") and many of them built subs that use that driver that's in the kit.

-Joey

[Woochifer]

If you go with the Partsexpress kit, only get the 12" or higher. The 10" isn't a very good value when you compare it to the Rava at similar prices. The 12" will go about as loud as the Rava, if not a little louder. But the Partsexpress kit does have the Parametric equalizer in it, which I hear is pretty much a necessity in most rooms. With the kits you do obivously get more for your money, because if Velodyne or someone made the sub it would retail for close to a grand. PE also has a discussion board ("ask the pros") and many of them built subs that use that driver that's in the kit.

-Joey

I noticed that the Parts Express 12" Titanic kit sells for $580, while the Rava sells for $400. A Rava plus an outboard parametric EQ would actually cost less than the Titanic kit, and the Rava doesn't need assembly. Unfortunately, both options and other decent ones in the same price range have exterior dimensions larger than 12". That Rocket sub seems to be one of the only options that meets all of the original poster's needs (tight sound, small exterior dimensions, attractive finish).

[Redbeard]

My sentiments exactly woochifer.... Most of the Hsu subs have no condiseration to size even the smallest is quite large. I am really turned on by the Velodyn DD12 but then again I don't have $2500 either. Hsu and SVS are both larger than life, you know this when Hsu sugests using it (VF2) as a coffee table or end table. The Rockit is as close to good as I can come up with but the $600 is almost the same price as the $700 JM Labs Chorus S that I am trying to avoid spending.

My point of haveing a smaller sub was that I have a small 12x15 room with hardwood floors and a close neighbor. I just want the sub to fill in low notes on music. My ceiling for a sub would probably be $400 and size wise would be 13x13x13. I had a PDR 10 which I thought was a bit large.

I have considered the sub below based on reading the many positive reviews here and from stereophile, AV guide and others, so anyone with any experience with this sub please let me know as I will have to buy it without hearing it. Also thanks for all the great suggestions

http://www.store.yahoo.com/rav/atp2such.html