Reference Speakers - what does this mean ?

[gonefishin]

I've seen this in many speaker specs, I see it mentioned here often and was wondering just what this really means.


Thanks,
Mikey

Reference speakers are different from person to person. Not only because of what they may have been exposed to and what their preferences are...but also how the system in question was set up at the time they heard them.

This reference speaker is what the person compares all other speakers he/she listens to to.

As for "reference" being in the name of the speaker or model name...well, that's just marketing hype.

I suppose there can also be a number of "reference" standards within one industry (recording or playback) that are adopted for a group of people. It seems things like that have been tried or adopted in the past...but companies always seem to end up skewing the numbers and falsely representing their speaker "also" as reference.

Further, many things can make up a "reference" speaker. Not one characteristic of this reference speaker will make another speaker of reference quality. Having the same frequency response as one speaker which may be of "reference" quality does not alone make it ALSO reference quality. There are obviously other factors.

Tho I can find enjoyment from almost any system or from any speaker. The speaker that I compare others I listen to are the EdgarHorn TiTan System. Like I've said, along the way I've heard many good speakers...but the TiTans seem to get many things right, to me


enjoy your reference!

[johndonline]

Allright, let me give you a couple of examples, and as far as prices go, we're not all the same area so prices could vary.

Let me then give you 4 different sets of speakers with flat response that are considered reference speakers:

*M-Audio Studiophile BX8

http://www.m-audio.com/index.php?do=...ab268ac27abac8

*Yamaha MSP10

http://www.yamaha.ca/show_model.asp?...e=MSP10+STUDIO

*Mackie PM3

http://www.mackie.com/products/hr824/index.html

*Yorkville YSM1p

http://www.yorkville.com/products_ma...&type=33&show=


Like I said for prices, because of currencies and different regions, I won't risk it. And again, these are not to use with your tv, these are active profesionnal speakers used in non smoke environnment for mixing and mastering purposes.

I hope my examples can help some of you guys

Just trying to drop my two cents !

Enjoy

[johndonline]

I wanted to add this but I clicked too fast..

True reference speakers won't sound very good to your "regular joe" because the wave length of the frequency response is not going to extremes to reproduce sound. It's ideal for mixing as there is no "color" to the sound. What you mix is going to sound good everywhere ( car, home, walkman, 2.1, 4.1, 5.1, etc.. ) and then you rely on the listener to ajust the EQ to personal preferences.

Johnd

[RGA]

Rga, read http://http://www.audionote.co.uk/anp1.htm this to see one of the instances I was talking about when I said AN's site looked like marketing gobbally goop. Hey, I think it's effective...I just think the speakers sound good enough they don't need to use this type of marketing.

Do you blah blah...
Do you blah blah...

if you answered yes to either or both of these blah blah, then do not pass go.

come on...it's kinda cheesy. lol But I guess they have to get peoples attention somehow.


back to the sound...yes, they do sound pretty good.


take care>>>>>>>>>>>>

I could not open that link but if it is the Article on "Are You on the Road to Audio Hell" it was not marketing...it was an essay written over several issues in Positive Feedback Magazine and nowehre in the article does it advertise Audio Note speakers or products - other than to let you know who wrote it. There is quite a lot in that article that makes more sense to me than anything else. For a start the way people should be conducting their listening via compare by contrast, the false notion of detail versus resolution etc. That article is referenced by many people...even those who don't own Audio Note speakers. At least they take the time to write a passionate article about musical reproduction and their beliefs. It's long - but highly useful for auditioning - and best of all ANYONE can do it and have success doing it. Audiophiles may not like it because they can't feel superior like they have a better ear...but tough.

[gonefishin]

Allright, let me give you a couple of examples, and as far as prices go, we're not all the same area so prices could vary.

Let me then give you 4 different sets of speakers with flat response that are considered reference speakers:

*M-Audio Studiophile BX8

http://www.m-audio.com/index.php?do=...ab268ac27abac8

*Yamaha MSP10

http://www.yamaha.ca/show_model.asp?...e=MSP10+STUDIO

*Mackie PM3

http://www.mackie.com/products/hr824/index.html

*Yorkville YSM1p

http://www.yorkville.com/products_ma...&type=33&show=


Like I said for prices, because of currencies and different regions, I won't risk it. And again, these are not to use with your tv, these are active profesionnal speakers used in non smoke environnment for mixing and mastering purposes.

I hope my examples can help some of you guys

Just trying to drop my two cents !

Enjoy


Flat response speakers

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I wanted to add this but I clicked too fast..

True reference speakers won't sound very good to your "regular joe" because the wave length of the frequency response is not going to extremes to reproduce sound. It's ideal for mixing as there is no "color" to the sound. What you mix is going to sound good everywhere ( car, home, walkman, 2.1, 4.1, 5.1, etc.. ) and then you rely on the listener to ajust the EQ to personal preferences.

Hey, thanks for the response. I do have a better idea where your coming from now.

You know, even tho my speakers do use some pro drivers...and I've heard a number of other speakers that use pro drivers in their design...I really haven't given studio monitors a fair shake. I'll try to keep this in mind in the future and have a listen when I'm given the opportunity.

Not talking about any of the monitors you've mentioned, because I haven't heard them. But speakers (commercial and DIY) are certainly effected by more than just a flat response. You can certainly have speakers which have a similar frequency response, yet sound very different from one another. To me...one of the areas that set some speakers apart are preserving good tone while maintaining low distortion and a wide dynamic range at both low and high volumes. I'm not saying that maintaining a somewhat flat (ish) in room frequency response is not important...but that this alone is far from making a reference speaker...at least what I view a reference speaker as. Of course, ask me my subjective opinion tomorrow, and I may give you a different answer


thanks..take care>>>>>>>>>

[elances]

Sorry to resurrect an older thread, but I wanted to mention one company's use of the term "reference." KEF has a Reference line. This is what they mean when they use the term:

The continuing evolution of KEF's legendary Reference Series has always been based on the concept of benchmark precision.

Every time a new generation of models is developed to incorporate more sophisticated technologies, we build prototypes that are as close to perfection as possible. These then become the ‘Reference’ to which every single production version must conform, each set assembled by a skilled craftsman who matches their performance to a tolerance of just 0.5dB.

When you buy a set of KEF's Reference speakers, they are guaranteeing that they are matched to the prototypes within 0.5dB across the frequency range, which also guarantees that the pair you buy match each other. I would say that this is a little better than mere marketing hype using a word like "monitor" or "reference." They also maintain records on every set of Reference speakers they sell, so if one of your speakers gets damaged, you can get a replacement that will sound virtually identical.

Regards,
Erick
(No, I do not work for KEF, otherwise I would own KEF Maidstones or Raymond Cooke Signature Edition Reference 107's, instead of my little KEF Q's! )

[RGA]

elances

While what Kef is saying is all very nice it is only useful to the customer of the speakers - and not that Kef can be considered any sort of reference against other brands.

Audio Note matches their speakers, by hand, to within .2db and to .1db on their best models. All this really does is mean that all their speakers are consistant so if one is damaged you can order another and know that they will match each other - and that they are careful with regards to quality control. Audio Note does that with all their speakers though not just their best models.

Every company must have their own reference sound I suppose. Audio Note uses the Snell Type AII as their base speaker to build their other speakers from. So that Snell is probably their reference(as are the other original Snell models).

There is no such thing as "The" reference speaker - and if the reference changes what good is it?

For instance amplifier and cd player makers who don't sell speakers must use a speaker to hear their amp and cd player creations. Some Audio Magazines use reference speakers but different people have different references to judge others against. So if you don't love that magazine's reference then you may or even should view their evaluations of other speakers differently. UHF magazine uses Reference 3a speakers to judge other speakers - and they may view some speaker as bright - but if you perceive Reference 3a as laid back rather than being neutral then that bright spekaer may sound quite natural to you.

One mastering studio may use B&W another may use Audio Note another Kef another PMC - none of which sound much alike.