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  1. #1
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    Recommendations?

    I'm a n00b... here's my back story. Used to be really into guitar and know a bit about live audio, but when it comes to home audio, I'm lost.... my friend and the salesperson I've been talking with laughed right out loud at me for asking something as stupid as if I should worry about overpowering or under powering the speakers I'm looking at with the amp in the receiver.... apparently not something you need to worry about that much with home audio, but a big concern for live audio.


    Anyway, that's neither here nor there. I'm currently looking at B&W's 684's and maybe spending the extra cash for 683's.... so that's my budget. (They're asking for $1200 for the 684's and $1500 for the 683's.... on a side note, is this price fair? It's hard to find MSRP's for B&W)

    I really liked the 684's I listened to... I haven't heard the 683's yet, but I hear they're worth the extra cash so I want to at least hear them before I decide.

    As for the use of the speakers for me: I'm into my music, I listen to a wide variety... jazz to rock to folk to whatever... so the highs and lows as far as music is concerned is important to me. But the end goal is a home theater. Right now I'm in the market for the main speakers and a receiver, but I'm going to get a center and surrounds eventually and possibly a sub woofer, but I don't know how much I'll need one if I get the 683's.


    Are the B&W's a good idea for me for my price range? ($1000-$1500) Any other recommendations? I'm currently looking at the Marantz SR4002 and SR5002 and the Denon AVR-1708 as far as receivers go... any advice would be very much appreciated.


    Sorry for the completely n00b post. I HAVE been reading around and trying to learn without asking questions, but I just moved into a new apartment and I'd like to make my purchases before I put the entertainment center in it's place. Thanks for any and all advice and sorry to people who are irked by this post!

  2. #2
    Forum Regular blackraven's Avatar
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    I just auditioned the B&W 683, 684, 685, and 686's a couple of weeks ago. The 683's sounded much better than the 684's with deeper and fuller bass. The sound was richer and more satisfying to me and my friend. I would definitely go with the 683's if you can and then add the 686's as surrounds later.

    Your eventually going to need a sub if you want to do HT.

    Go with the Marantz receivers if you can. You should also include the Onkyo SR605 in that group. Its a very good budget receiver in the $400 range and competes with some more expensive receivers.
    Pass Labs X250 amp, BAT Vk-51se Preamp,
    Thorens TD-145 TT, Bellari phono preamp, Nagaoka MP-200 Cartridge
    Magnepan QR1.6 speakers
    Luxman DA-06 DAC
    Van Alstine Ultra Plus Hybrid Tube DAC
    Dual Martin Logan Original Dynamo Subs
    Parasound A21 amp
    Vintage Luxman T-110 tuner
    Magnepan MMG's, Grant Fidelity DAC-11, Class D CDA254 amp
    Monitor Audio S1 speakers, PSB B6 speakers
    Vintage Technic's Integrated amp
    Music Hall 25.2 CDP
    Adcom GFR 700 AVR
    Cables- Cardas, Silnote, BJC
    Velodyne CHT 8 sub

  3. #3
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    Thanks for your quick response Raven!

    After a little more research it seems like I should at least look at Paradigm and apparently there's a registered dealer near here so I might go check it out. I've seen a number of people saying Paradigms sound better.... in the end I'm gonna go with what sounds good to me, but does anyone else feel that Paradigms are superior?

  4. #4
    _ Luvin Da Blues's Avatar
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    JimmyDThing, welcome

    The psb line is also a contender here. But then I'm a bit biased, worth checking out if you can find them in your area.
    Back in my day, we had nine planets.

  5. #5
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    Everyone has to start some where, don't be shy about asking any questions. It's better to ask than to go off and make a mistake.

    I personally feel a $1,200 to $1.5k speaker is a bit overkill for a $400 or $500.00 receiver.

    Have you heard Paradigm Studio series? They are slightly above average sensitivity and shouldn't cost as much. The extra sensitivity will have them be an easier load for your receiver. Others may know of different options as well. But if none of them give you the enjoyment of the B&W then you must do what you must do. I just don't think a receiver will ever do them justice. Now that I think of it though there are a couple of guys here that drive B&W with receivers. Speaker companies really don't care who buy their speakers but when they design a speaker at a certain price point they typically have a same level of electronics in mind. I doubt if B&W engineers have Marantz, or any other receiver, in their factory listening room.

  6. #6
    Forum Regular blackraven's Avatar
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    They have totally different sounds. I prefer B&W in that price range, they have better bass and a warmer sound compared to the paradigms. You should also listen to the NHT Classic 4's if you like a warmer sound.

    With speakers its not really which is superior, its what sounds good to your ears. it all boils down to your tastes, I prefer a warmer sound over a brighter or neutral sound.

    Think about the sound your prefer and try to find speakers that match it. Also, if you listen to alot of rock you may want a warmer sounding speaker as rock tends to be recorded on the bright side. When you audition speakers bring a variety of music that you like to listen to and take at least 30 min or more to listen to the speakers. Also try to audition them with amps, receivers and CD players in your price range and same brand if possible.


    I tend to disagree with Mr. P about the lower priced receiver and $1500 speaker. Sure you will get a little more out of the speakers with a high end amp but you will get worse sound with cheaper speakers. 90 wpc will drive those B&W's just fine and you will appreciate the better sound of the 683's vs cheaper speakers. I think its worse when you have a higher end amp and cheaper speakers.

    I used to drive my magnepans with a high current 120wpc JVC AVR and it sounded great. Does it sound better with my Adcom sure, but I would have been worse off with cheaper speakers.

    I agree with LDB, give PSB a look!
    Pass Labs X250 amp, BAT Vk-51se Preamp,
    Thorens TD-145 TT, Bellari phono preamp, Nagaoka MP-200 Cartridge
    Magnepan QR1.6 speakers
    Luxman DA-06 DAC
    Van Alstine Ultra Plus Hybrid Tube DAC
    Dual Martin Logan Original Dynamo Subs
    Parasound A21 amp
    Vintage Luxman T-110 tuner
    Magnepan MMG's, Grant Fidelity DAC-11, Class D CDA254 amp
    Monitor Audio S1 speakers, PSB B6 speakers
    Vintage Technic's Integrated amp
    Music Hall 25.2 CDP
    Adcom GFR 700 AVR
    Cables- Cardas, Silnote, BJC
    Velodyne CHT 8 sub

  7. #7
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    Thanks for all of your help! Sounds mostly like what I was thinking.... I need to listen to as much as I can and make my decision based on what I like best.

    Mr. Peabody, do you really think it'd be an issue to try to drive the B&W's with either of the the Marantz receivers I'm looking at? Both salespeople I talked to recommended me the same one. I'd like to hear what the speakers sounded like coming from it... I wonder if they'd do that for me.

    Thanks again for everyones help!

  8. #8
    _ Luvin Da Blues's Avatar
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    We momentarily interrupt this program to bring you an important message.

    Blackraven, clean out your mailbox please so I can PM ya.

    Thanks for your patience. Now back to our regular programing.
    Back in my day, we had nine planets.

  9. #9
    Forum Regular blackraven's Avatar
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    OK, done!
    Pass Labs X250 amp, BAT Vk-51se Preamp,
    Thorens TD-145 TT, Bellari phono preamp, Nagaoka MP-200 Cartridge
    Magnepan QR1.6 speakers
    Luxman DA-06 DAC
    Van Alstine Ultra Plus Hybrid Tube DAC
    Dual Martin Logan Original Dynamo Subs
    Parasound A21 amp
    Vintage Luxman T-110 tuner
    Magnepan MMG's, Grant Fidelity DAC-11, Class D CDA254 amp
    Monitor Audio S1 speakers, PSB B6 speakers
    Vintage Technic's Integrated amp
    Music Hall 25.2 CDP
    Adcom GFR 700 AVR
    Cables- Cardas, Silnote, BJC
    Velodyne CHT 8 sub

  10. #10
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    The store should definitely be willing to hook up what you want if they carry both brands. A really good store allows in home auditions. At a minimum almost any store should allow a return if not satisfied, the online and big box stores typically give 30 days.

    I've heard a lot of B&W but I haven't been in a situation where I could test the limits. I've seen many driven with Denon. Rich, here, drives his with a Yamaha. I didn't mean to imply the Marantz wouldn't drive them more like they are in different leagues. If you like the combo though there's no law agin them being together

  11. #11
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    Mr. Peabody... I currently live in an apartment and will be living here for some time (probably at least 2 years... more than likely more if I go to grad school)... so I can only push the speakers so far. A lot of people are telling me then there's no reason for buying speakers this size, but to that I say.... I'm 23, I could be in an apartment for 7 more years or I could end up buying a house in 2. The point is I have some extra cash and I'd rather spend it on something that will last me a while....

    This is also why when looking at receivers I'm looking at something very "future proof." But it seems like the receivers with all the capabilities I'd like are just too far out of my price range! So I'm debating buying on the lower end with a receiver right now and having THAT be my replacement piece later on down the road when I have the means to "push," as you say, my speakers as much as I want. The logic being... I'd rather replace 1 receiver than a receiver and speakers. Is my logic flawed?! I'm going to take a stop in again and see if they'll hook up the speakers I'm looking at to the receivers I'm looking at. I think they will, they are a small business, commission based.

    It sucks because every time it's convenient for me to go there, I have to deal with a guy I refuse to buy from... he's demeaning and has an attitude of "I know better than you" about him. When I do buy, if I buy from this store, I'm making it a point to go buy it from a kid who helped me once who only works nights.... he treated me right and gave me what seemed like fair advice. Hell, at first I was looking at bookshelves and it was the sales guy telling me the pro's of it and the friend I took putting the pressure on the more expensive floorstanding!

  12. #12
    _ Luvin Da Blues's Avatar
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    If any salesman laugh at me instead of edumacating would NOT get any of my business. All he would get is a big fat F!!ck Off. Is there not any other shops in your area?
    Back in my day, we had nine planets.

  13. #13
    Ajani
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    In addition to the B&W, Paradigm, NHT and PSB speakers mentioned, in the $1K to $1.5K price range, I'd audition the following:

    Monitor Audio Silver RS6 $1K and RS8 $1.5K
    Revel Converta F12 $1.5K
    Focal Chorus 716V $1.3K & maybe 726V $1.6K
    Kef IQ7 approx $1K and IQ9 $1.3K

    Even though you won't get the most out of any of these speakers with a $400 - $500 receiver, you should still be able to setup a satisfying combo & you can always upgrade the Receiver later on, if you so desire.

  14. #14
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    Unfortunately there's not a ton around me... maybe 3 stores that I've found so far. I found a Paradigm dealer that I'm going to check out today, not sure what else they carry. The one I went to and will probably buy from has B&W, Boston, KEF, Klipsch, and JBL... And the last store I can check out has these guys that I don't know ANYTHING about:

    Wharfedale
    Legacy
    JM-LABS
    Monitor Audio
    Tru Audio
    Velodyne
    Gallo Acoustics
    StereoStone
    Morel

  15. #15
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    Haha... apparently I won't be able to test drive Paradigm. The dealer here is a car audio dealer!

  16. #16
    Ajani
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    Quote Originally Posted by JimmyDThing
    Unfortunately there's not a ton around me... maybe 3 stores that I've found so far. I found a Paradigm dealer that I'm going to check out today, not sure what else they carry. The one I went to and will probably buy from has B&W, Boston, KEF, Klipsch, and JBL... And the last store I can check out has these guys that I don't know ANYTHING about:

    Wharfedale
    Legacy
    JM-LABS
    Monitor Audio
    Tru Audio
    Velodyne
    Gallo Acoustics
    StereoStone
    Morel
    JM-LABS is Focal.... so on that list I'd check out Monitor Audio, Focal JM-Labs & Wharfedale (Diamond series)...

  17. #17
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    Jimmy, your reasoning makes sense. You might also buy a receiver with preamp outputs so if you wish you can add a power amp to the front mains at some point to give some extra ummmf. I believe some one mentioned earlier the Onkyo receivers, you should give them a listen. Onkyo has the best high current amp section of the mass market brands. You should notice better bass response, control and better capable of dealing with a difficult speaker load,. Some of the Denon units, which are more expensive, boast "high current" but I haven't heard any of them to see if they rock with Onkyo. The 605 and up are up to date with features. For not a lot more money but maybe forgoing some bells & whistles you might also look for a NAD or Cambridge receiver for better than average music playback.

  18. #18
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    Sweet... OK, I'm glad it makes sense. Does anyone think it a poor idea to go with the Onkyo 605 and the B&W 683's? Unfortunately, no store here carries both so I can't audition them together unless I buy and return.... this worries me.

  19. #19
    Forum Regular blackraven's Avatar
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    The onkyo should be fine with the B&W's. The onkyo has a nice amp section, with a nice relatively high current amp which you will appreciate. If you want to go with a Denon you have to go with a 3000 series denon to get their good high current amps with Torroidal transformers.
    Pass Labs X250 amp, BAT Vk-51se Preamp,
    Thorens TD-145 TT, Bellari phono preamp, Nagaoka MP-200 Cartridge
    Magnepan QR1.6 speakers
    Luxman DA-06 DAC
    Van Alstine Ultra Plus Hybrid Tube DAC
    Dual Martin Logan Original Dynamo Subs
    Parasound A21 amp
    Vintage Luxman T-110 tuner
    Magnepan MMG's, Grant Fidelity DAC-11, Class D CDA254 amp
    Monitor Audio S1 speakers, PSB B6 speakers
    Vintage Technic's Integrated amp
    Music Hall 25.2 CDP
    Adcom GFR 700 AVR
    Cables- Cardas, Silnote, BJC
    Velodyne CHT 8 sub

  20. #20
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    Thanks guys for all the help. Now that I'm about ready to go out and buy it... my TV crapped the bed. It's a horrible old TV and I was going to replace it before next winter anyway because I don't really watch too much TV in the summer anyway... but I need SOME TV and it seems a waste not to buy the TV I really want.


    So now I'm debating getting a good TV and downgrading my speakers to bookshelves (B&W 685's) for now and still getting the Onkyo 605 receiver... maybe in a month or two when I have some extra cash grabbing a sub. Not exactly what I wanted, but I can't get the 683's AND a TV... just not in my budget.


    Seem like a good idea? Sorry, I promise I'll stop! hahaha Thanks again, seriously, to those who've helped me out.

  21. #21
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    Sounds logical to me. It's odd how we couldn't go without TV. You take most of our TV's out and we'd be lost. Even though I mostly watch news in the morning getting ready for work and an occasional movie, some one always has the thing on.

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    Yeah.... that's true. And I ended up saying "screw it" and I'm gonna get the 683's and a larger TV than I had planned on getting in the first place! Why? Because I don't have a financial problem yet, and I figured I should get one.

  23. #23
    Forum Regular captjamo's Avatar
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    OK, Jimmy: Here is (just for fun) my money saving killer system recommendation. Are you state side? If so, here goes...

    Sam's club--47" Vizio 1080p LCD HDTV 1374.00 best price vs quality.
    dependableaudiovideo.com--Yamaha RX-V663 415.00 cheaper than the Onkyo & decodes latest HD audio formats, also 5 more watts per ch.

    By all means, get the 683's if you can and you like their bright sound. Best quality speaker in it's price range. I strongly recommend a sub when you own B & W speakers so for that I recommend going back to dependable for a Velodyne DLS-3750R 10" 350w sub. Comes with a remote which is incredibly handy for volume control (no reaching behind sub feeling for volume knob). 345.00 buys a lot of bass. I have this sub. It blends with my 703's very well. I sometimes wish I had gotten the 12" (for movies) but not very often because the 10" produces so much good warm reasonably fast bass.

    Tell us what you end up with. I think your on the right track. Cheers

  24. #24
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    I prefer plasma over LCD and I'm either gonna go with the Panasonic TH-50PX77U or Hitachi P50V701. I'm gonna go with the 683's and the Onkyo 605.

    Subs... maybe in the future!

  25. #25
    Forum Regular captjamo's Avatar
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    Right, all excellent equipment. Didn't know how sharp your pencil needed to be when crunching numbers to fit your budget. Knew where some deals were and wanted to share them. Did you or anyone get a chance to check dependableaudiovideo.com out? They have Onkyo too including the 605. Enjoy! I tested those speakers, they are great.

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