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  1. #26
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    Recommendations for Mr JimmyDThing

    Hey, you're da guy wif da thing ? (Analyse This), lol, mate you have to watch that.
    So funny when Billy Crystal starts talking Mafia

    Ok, a lot of great advice has been passed throughout this thread, great work guys.

    Well, let's state the obvious so I am not misunderstanding...

    1. You do have a set budget, with a bit of room to work with, but something way over the
    top (price wise), is just not possible.

    2. Lows and Highs when listening to music is a high priority for your listening pleasure.

    3. B&W's are certainly options.

    I was looking around for a new pair of fronts. I spent over 6 months, 30 stores and I lost
    cound how many brands/models I auditioned. I set aside a certain budget, it was not
    planned I could go over that, at least not much over. After painstaking time, effort, many
    brands/models made my ears bleed, some didn't do anything for me, and only three
    brands actually impressed me, B&W, Dali, and Dynaudio. Before I go on, I must let you
    know that I'm in Australia, in a part where number of choices/variety of brands, cannot
    compare to USA or Europe. However my method of reasearch is still sound.

    I took a look on the net for all the models I was interested in, downloaded the operating
    manuals, read lots of reviews, used the positive and negative feedback to bring back to
    the store to get the salesperson to address these. The good sales staff never needed to
    try to convince me, they let my ears judge what is best for me.

    After listening to the Dynaudio Audience 80's, it was pretty good, then the salesperson
    decided to plug in the Dynaudio Contours 1.8's Mark IIs. I could not believe it, it was as if
    someone removed icecream cones away from my ears. I was able to hear additional
    voices, instruments that were not there in every other pair of speakers. The imaging
    was incredible, these speakers were on a totally new level. I was glad I found out about
    these babies. I found out the price, and it was way beyond my budget. A dialemma.

    I found a store which was able to work with my budget, and I was able to get this pair.
    In addition I found a way, to scrape, starve, to get these speakers. That was over 5, 6
    years ago, and to this day, it was the best decision I ever made in a purchase in my
    entire life on this planet. WHY ? I feel you bro, the highs, the lows, the imaging, the
    detail I could hear from the CDs, just incredible, I was able to listen to music, even the
    same song, for hours, and hours, and hours, and not get what we call in this industry,
    "listening fatigue". That basically means, after an hour you have to take a break, and
    stop listening, the music grows tiring, regardless on what it is.

    Remember that some speakers do perform better in certain genres of music better
    than others. I.E. My Dyns are great for classical, opera, great singing voices, jazz etc..
    However the lows can be better in other models, so if you're a heavy metal or rock fan,
    you may find that advantage in other brands. I personally have found no weaknesses
    in my speakers. I can also get sufficient bass each and every time.

    The human body/ear drums are able to listen to the same music, a tune etc, for longer
    than 1 hour, at a time, even continously. If you can be blessed with finding a pair of
    speakers which has great imaging, a good dynamic range, great highs, midrange, and
    lows, then you will actually look forward to listening to the next song on your list because
    you know it already sounds incredible, regardless on how much you're enjoying the
    current track.

    I seriously do not believe you should not let a number (in terms of dollars) stop you
    from auditioning speakers, or other components beyond your budget. You'll never find
    out just how good the best of the best is capable of. Of course it may frustrate you
    because you cannot buy it, but all you can go by is what you brought and tested, and
    have no experience trying out the class-a, or extreme hi-end stuff. I took my close friend
    to a shop, and played one of his favourite prince CDs. I gave him absolutely no advice,
    I let him sit down on a chair and listen to When Doves Cry, on a 21K system.

    He previously argued that there's no advantage of spending anything more $500 on a whole
    system, anything more would be a waste of money. After hearing that song on the 21K
    system, he was so exited, impressed, and told me, he heard so many additional voices,
    and detail that never heard before in the 10+ years of hearing that track.

    I invited a friend over to my place to help me stack my new LCD screen on top of my
    cabinet, and I played a few concerts, and CDs through my speakers. He fell in love with
    them, and wanted to throw his current speakers away. He begged me to tell him where
    he could buy a pair.

    It does not matter what type of music you listen to, the fact that you like listening to
    music, you WILL appreciate just what a difference GREAT speakers can give you.
    Great imaging, the detail, it's just so worth it. I would not necessarily recommend that
    most of your funds should go towards speakers, or any particular component. Mr Peabody
    pretty much hit the nail on the head, stating that a 1.5K part would be an overkill to a
    400 receiver. The main reason is that you risk ending up with a receiver that cannot
    efficiently drive a pair of 1.5K speakers. I am currently in that boat, I purchased speakers
    worth 6K, and running them through a 1.7K receiver. Does that mean it was a mistake
    getting the 6K speakers ? Absolutely NOT, like I said, it was the best purchase. My Dyns
    are no longer my weakest component. I do need to get a new receiver/amp to not just
    better drive my speakers, but for other reasons anyway.

    The importance of getting a great pair of speakers, amp/receiver, source are for different
    reasons, so I wouldn't necessarily recommend spending exactly 1/3 of your budget for
    each, but as long as the proportion is not too unbalanced. Don't neglect your
    interconnects, speaker cables etc. I wouldn't use the $2 pairs that came in the box.

    I recently listened to some of my favourite music on a 75K system. Most of the gear
    was McIntosh, and the speakers were 35K B&Ws. I thought I was impressed
    with my system at home, I actually found so much more detail coming through this
    system (well it would make sense wouldn't it ?). One track where I could hear about
    10 background voices, this 75K system felt like it was able to pick up 32 background
    voices. That's where receivers fall over, in comparison to class-A amps, because
    receivers "in general" use algorithms to reprocess, change the dynamics of the sound
    that you finally listen to. Class-A amps, power/pre combos, the best of the best
    invest their research and development on detail, keeping true to obtaining as much
    information out of the original souce, and delivering them through your speakers as
    close to the original as possible. Don't get me wrong, people on this thread will start
    complaining stating that they are very happy with their receivers, and that is fine. I am not
    saying receivers are not good, I have one myself. However I turn off the processing,
    which stays true to the original source as possible, makes my receiver last longer
    because it does less work, and most things are going to sound good through my
    speakers anyway.

    Receivers "normally" provide better dynamics, that is partially why some people end up
    buying a graphic equaliser. Amps, (class-A, and the very best of what you can get),
    provide better detail, stay true to the original source, without coloring in the music.

    Consider using photoshop. If you're given a poor resolution picture, you need to maintain
    the quality, but increase the size. Any knowledgable graphics person, or graphics artist
    will tell you straight away that there's no way that's going to happen no matter how good
    at photoshop you are. However there are many tools you can use to enrich the blacks,
    use a pallet to colour in the areas, enchance the sharpness, or blurness, change the
    hue, etc. Yes you can make it look better, Photoshop is a great touch-up tool.
    However a printing company was going to do a poster for a client, need a 1024 x 768 hi resolution image to do the job, and was given a 800 x 600 image with half the resolution,
    they'd turn back and ask for a higher res, large image from the client. It is always better
    to work with a better original.

    That brings me to the point that the source is very important as well, hence the phrase,
    garbage in, garbage out. A good cd player for example is not something that should be
    overlooked. That is something I will need to get in the future.

    It is a dialemma that many people that have both 2 and 5.1 channel systems have. They
    prefer the 2-channel system over the 5. They know that the 2-channel system provides
    better reproduction of the music as many of those systems are running through good
    amps and good speakers. The 5.1 jobs are usually through receivers, there's a smaller
    proportion of preamps that have 5.1 inputs. When you add rears, surround rears, centre,
    surround rears, and sub woofers, you are most likely to find more weaker links in the
    overall system. Before anyone gets a change to whinge about that last comment, yes I'm
    sure all of you have done an excellent job with the equipment that you have, and that it
    sounds fantastic.

    I'll reiterate, anyone who is seeking for a component, listen to models even beyond
    your budget, you need to know what the very best of the best can do. You're doing
    yourself a disservice if you never get to find out just how much detail exists in your CDs,
    and what some of your other components are capable of. For practical purposes you
    may find out that the weakest component is a different one to what you throught.

    Also take your sweet time before making the informed decision. Nothing wrong with
    audtioning more and more components. You need to find out which stores you can trust,
    which shops have poor setups, which store staff know what they are talking about, and
    know when someone in the shop is jerking you around.

    One thing that I would hope some people would consider, customer service, or a lack of
    it. I work in a highly focussed customer service environment. I know poor service when
    I get it, same as that Doctors make the worst patients. If I find out for a certain amount
    of time that the sales staff does not welcome my business, or isn't being a professional
    about their job, they have lost my business.

    You can get a good cheap deal from someone who had poor people and business skills.
    That may save you dollars, but if you have to return to them for either repairs, servicing,
    purchase of new products, you may find yourself in a difficult position. It is worth building
    a good business relationship with the store you buy your gear from. They have the interest
    in keeping your business. If they are good enough to help, they can get something that
    they do not necessarily stock, like a higher model that is not in the store.

    Get out a book, or make an electronic document to make notes of each store you have
    been to, what models you have auditioned, and strenghts, weaknesses you have found.
    Go back onto the net and research for other reviews, find out if they have found the
    same strengths, weaknesses, or they have all been happy. If the latter is the case, then
    you may consider a poor set up in the shop, and that it may sound better in your home.
    You could also ask to borrow the component for a day or weekend. It may require you to
    place a deposit, to cover their a$$es. Negotiate terms for that, so that there's no
    misunderstandings, or lawsuits. If you cannot take them home, ask if you can bring in
    your receiver, or other components in, so you can hook it up to theirs which is better
    than nothing.

    Let me know how you go, good luck.

    EG
    Current System :

    Xindak XA8800MNE Mono Block Power Amplifier
    Cambridge Audio 840E Pre Amplifier
    Cambridge Audio 840C CD Player and DAC
    Dynaudio Contour 1.8 MK-II
    Pioneer DVR-640H (250 GB HDD)
    Foxtel Digital
    Samsung LCD 40in LA40M81BDX
    Sony PS 3 (source - CD/SACD/DVD/Blu-Ray)
    XLO Interconnects & speaker cables
    Sonos Wireless Music System

    Upgrade Path :

    1. Power regulation system

  2. #27
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    Whooooo, Ozzie, that was exhausting dude, but I'm with you.

    When you get some current under those 1.8's you won't be wanting any more bass. Do you have Krell down there? What did the Dynaudio dealer use to drive his stock?

  3. #28
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    Wow Ozzie, thanks for the really in depth response. I agree with you about not limiting yourself to a budget... but at the same time, I can't afford McIntosh ANYTHING, haha... on a side note, they're made about an hour and a half from where I live... I could easily drive to the building they hand-craft their awesome equipment. But I don't listen to that stuff because I have a really bad habit of dwelling on how much better something is than what I have.

    So I'm trying to do the "happy medium" thing... this is a perfect example. I went into this with the idea of spending $1000 max and getting bookshelves that I would later move to the back as surrounds when I had a bigger place. Then I figured why not at least listen to the floorstanding speakers the place I was at had to offer and I was blown away by the B&W 684s for their price... and at $1100 they weren't really that far out of what I wanted to spend. Then I figured I'd look at the better model because a lot of people said it was worth the extra cash, and the 683's are just phenomenal in my opinion... and honestly what I'll probably buy. I honestly can't really afford all that I'm buying, but I haven't spent any money on myself in a long time and I just feel I deserve a treat so I'm gonna get what I want. My point is that if I keep looking at more expensive speakers, as you say... I will hear more and more and be more and more blown away by how great they are and I'll want that instead. So I am limiting myself a little bit.

    But so far, nothing I have heard so far has compared to the 683's. The stuff I don't know much about is the inability of cheaper receivers to drive the speakers. Some people tell me that it matters and others tell me it doesn't. B&W recommends something with 25-200 watts and Hi-Fi Choice magazine recommends going nowhere below 50 watts... and the Onkyo I'm looking at provides 90 watts per channel. Can someone explain to me why a more expensive speaker will make a difference with the same power rating?

    Also... I agree, I don't like any processing being on either... especially with only 2 speakers, to me it sounds fake and you can tell it's been processed. Honestly when listening to music, all I need are the 2 floorstanding speakers, the surrounds and the center and the sub just distract me and the imaging is good enough to make it seem as though there IS a center channel between them. The only reason I want 5.1 is for movies, which is a big hobby for me in the winter... it's how I get through my cabin fever. In the summer, though, I hate being inside and when I am the last thing I want to be doing is sitting in front of the TV. I'm going to love being able to turn on some tunes and sit out on my balcony and listen to some crisp clear music the way it was meant to be listened to.

    As I've said, the receiver is going to be temporary. I can't afford a good one right now so I'm gonna get the one that provides me with all the inputs I need and can drive my speakers at least somewhat. I know it won't sound as good as what they're using in the store I'm buying from, but it'll have to do. And I was planning on doing exactly what you said... bringing it in to listen before I buy. Plus I found the receiver for about $100 less online, so I'm gonna buy it at a local store, bring it to the speakers store, hook it up and listen, then return it and if I liked it, buy it online.... cheap, I know... but $100 is $100 and I need to save as much as I can.... especially since I'm buying a TV too.

    I haven't been able to audition much because of the limitations of stores near me. As far as I can tell, there's only really 3 stores here that carry anything worth listening to. And one of them, the best they had were Paradigms which in my mind didn't match up to the B&W's that I'm looking at... though they would save me quite a bit of cash, I'll always know I could have had the speakers that really blew my mind. What makes it more difficult is the fact that I refuse to buy from the guy who I originally talked to. As you said, there are good and bad salespeople. This guy is bad. He made me feel as though my knowledge of the products were inferior to his and made me uncomfortable about asking questions. Unfortunately, he's there almost all the time and he's ALWAYS there when it's convenient for me to go in, and the salesperson who I plan on buying from is in graduate school and only works certain hours that don't mesh well with my free time. Part of me wants to inform this guy that he makes it harder for me to go into the store. I work right near the store and I always want to go listen to their stuff on my lunch break, but I know he'll be there and he'll corner me and make me feel uncomfortable, so I don't go.... in my mind, he's losing the company money. The other guy I talked to was very helpful. Explained to me the benefits of floorstanding over bookshelf speakers while still being fair about the cheaper and less lucrative for him bookshelves I was looking at.. basically told me that he can tell me whatever he wants to but what it comes down to is what sounds good to me and what works for me... he happened to like the same speakers I did, but he didn't push them on me... just explained the advantages and disadvantages of everything he had me listen to.

    The other stores.... the paradigm place doens't have anything I really liked that much and they're pretty far away, and the other place isn't convenient and has hours that make it tough for me to get there... I actually haven't gotten there yet (one of the reasons I haven't bought the speakers yet).

    So I guess in essence, what I'm trying to say in this post is:

    1.) I agree, limiting to a budget is exactly what it says... limiting, but that I have to deal with it like an alcoholic... sometimes there's just too much temptation to handle.

    2.) Can someone explain to me better why more expensive receivers are better? Should I be looking at an amp instead of a receiver?

    and 3.) My biggest limitation is beyond my control... and that's exposure of different brands and models for me to audition. Out of 3 places, 1 doesn't have anything I'm really interested in and is far away, 1 has hours that make it difficult for me to get there, and the last has an a$$hole working almost all the time who makes it difficult for me to stay in the store for more than 15 minutes.

  4. #29
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    2. Yes, you should be looking at least for an integrated. A better receiver will offer more features and some give more power, which don't mean a lot, because in the morning it's still a receiver. All watts are not created equal.

    3. There are several online stores that carry higher end gear that will give you a 30 day return option. Do some research and give them a try opposed to not ever hearing your dream speaker to it's potential.

    www.spearitsound.com are very good at steering you in the right direction and carry B&W so have experience with what might match well. Also, they usually have a pretty good selection of "demo/used/close out" list.

    www.amusicdirect.com carry some great brands. Never really received good advice from them.

    www.acousticsounds.com carry some nice brands. The owner is knowledgeable and a nice guy.

    Which Onkyo were you looking at? If you didn't want surround sound, spend the same amount of money and get the 9555 integrated.

  5. #30
    Forum Regular blackraven's Avatar
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    There are still some very good 2ch receivers that are very good. The outlaw audio RR2150 is a very good buy at about $600. www.outlawaudio.com It has gotten great reviews and has plenty of high current power at 100wpc at 8ohm and 160 at 4ohm (it really puts out more power than what its rated at when its been tested). It has preamp and sub outs as well as bass management so you can use it as a 2.1 system. Its a lot of receiver considering the price since they only sell direct online. If you browse the outlaw forum, you will see that people really like them You should also consider the Onkyo integrated and the cambridge audio integrated amps. www.spearitsound carries the cambridge audio line.
    Pass Labs X250 amp, BAT Vk-51se Preamp,
    Thorens TD-145 TT, Bellari phono preamp, Nagaoka MP-200 Cartridge
    Magnepan QR1.6 speakers
    Luxman DA-06 DAC
    Van Alstine Ultra Plus Hybrid Tube DAC
    Dual Martin Logan Original Dynamo Subs
    Parasound A21 amp
    Vintage Luxman T-110 tuner
    Magnepan MMG's, Grant Fidelity DAC-11, Class D CDA254 amp
    Monitor Audio S1 speakers, PSB B6 speakers
    Vintage Technic's Integrated amp
    Music Hall 25.2 CDP
    Adcom GFR 700 AVR
    Cables- Cardas, Silnote, BJC
    Velodyne CHT 8 sub

  6. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Peabody
    Which Onkyo were you looking at? If you didn't want surround sound, spend the same amount of money and get the 9555 integrated.

    First... thanks for the advice.

    Second, I'm looking at the TX-SR605.

    And I do want to do surround sound... eventually. I also need something to port all my devices through so I figured I'd get a few birds with one stone. Is there any way to do both? Ideally I'd like to be able to use just the 683's when listening to music (I don't think they require a sub and I really do think surround distracts when listening to music... it should come from in front of you, as though the band is right there and you're listening), and then be able to switch to 5.1 for movies.

    I don't know a ton about this type of stuff so I don't even know if that's possible. And if it is, I bet it isn't cheap.

    If any of you have some free time and have AIM or MSN... put me on your buddy list, I'd love to talk to any of you... you're all very friendly and informative.

    AIM: JimDzembo
    MSN: JimDzembo@hotmail.com



    Edit: Maybe I should be looking at an amp and an AV switch instead.

  7. #32
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    The 605 will allow for just stereo listening, I'm not sure if it has a "direct" mode to bypass the internal DAC for stereo but several HT receivers feature that.

    To integrate both an HT and a 2 channel system, your receiver has to have preamp outputs. I believe you have to go up to the 705 or 805 for that. Then you need an integrated or stereo preamp that has a "bypass" or "theater bypass" feature. When this is selected the input goes directly to the power amp bypassing the preamp controls. You hook the front preamp out of the receiver to the "bypass" input. This allows the integrated to be a slave to the receiver when using it for surround sound and the integrated/power amp will drive the front 2 channels. You run your stereo components into the integrated and your video components to the HT receiver. When listening to 2 channel the receiver won't be on. You will need both on though for surround sound because the integrated is driving the front mains.

    You will also need preamp outputs if you want to just add an external power amp. So research which models offer a preamp out.

  8. #33
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    Mr Peabody : Yes I have seen some Krells, but there is a very limited range,
    also I am not entirely sure if they have the top of the Krell range there. I
    will pay close attention if any shop I go to sells them.

    The place I brought the Dynaudio may have old stock, there is one other
    shop I found the Parasound units where they have much of the range
    above of what I have. The Confidence series go for about 16K. Those
    floors are much taller than mine, I guess I could use the 16K ones
    as a centre for our local basketball team (haha would of been funny
    if we were talking about "centre speakers") :P

    Jimmy, thanks for the feedback. I took a look at the TX-SR605 , looks
    impressive. Have you taken a look at the RX-V3800 from Yamaha ?
    Download the manual, take a look at the features, the back panel,
    compare it.

    The key features you are looking for in a new receiver :

    1. One which has an actual Master HD, Dolby Pro Logic, and True HD decoders.

    2. DTS-HD High resolution Audio decoder. Dolby Digital, DD EX decoders.

    3. HDMI 1.3a , at least 2, ideally 3 HDMI inputs.

    4. Analog video up-scaling from 480i or 480p/576p to 720p, 1080i/1080p.

    The latter must do this via HDMI cable, so whatever HDMI cable you buy,
    make sure the data transfer is at a very high speed. They will likely be
    more expensive than you're willing to pay.

    With receivers you will want to buy something that is as "future proof" as
    possible. HDMI 1.3 is most likely to be released on HD media by 2009.
    The current format that's on HD media today is HDMI 1.1

    Make sure the speakers which have a power rating, end up with a
    receiver that can drive the speakers very well. I.e. you will need probably
    30 to 50 percent more power per channel than what the speakers
    demand. Why ? That is because you are most likely to be plugging in
    much more than just speakers into the back of your receiver. It is more
    likely you will like me and plug everything that has a composite out, even
    my kitchen sink if it had it haha. It helps a lot to have a lot of reserve
    power IF you can have it. Unfortunately receivers never had the
    trait of offering as much power per channel. Power amps have that
    advantage (in general).

    The back of the receiver is most important, it's what other possibilities
    you have 2 to 5 years down the track. It must be something you know
    you won't need to uprade again in 4 years time. If you feel that's
    possible, then better consider the power-pre option, as some media
    centres do allow for multi-channel input, plus you can actually buy
    7.1 channel power amps. Just take a look around at the major
    brands, see what they can offer feature wise, then check the price.

    Like me, it may be worth holding back saving up 2 to 5 more months
    down the track if you can get something that you will end up being
    much more happy about.

    If you end up getting bookshelf speakers, then most receivers will
    be able to provide enough juice to them (SHOULD, not a guarrantee).
    I was most impressed with the way Dynaudio speakers imaging,
    regardless of type, size, shelves or floorstanders etc. At least check
    out as many brands as you can. Can't do harm. At least you will
    be able to find out for yourself which reviews you read apply to you,
    and are true, and which ones are porky-pies.

    EG.
    Current System :

    Xindak XA8800MNE Mono Block Power Amplifier
    Cambridge Audio 840E Pre Amplifier
    Cambridge Audio 840C CD Player and DAC
    Dynaudio Contour 1.8 MK-II
    Pioneer DVR-640H (250 GB HDD)
    Foxtel Digital
    Samsung LCD 40in LA40M81BDX
    Sony PS 3 (source - CD/SACD/DVD/Blu-Ray)
    XLO Interconnects & speaker cables
    Sonos Wireless Music System

    Upgrade Path :

    1. Power regulation system

  9. #34
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    With Krell their entry level will kill most of anything you can afford and I doubt you really want to see or hear further up as it is attached to hefty price tags.

    I personally wouldn't get caught up in upscaling video with your receiver. Most DVD or BR will upscale and as I understand it, HDTV's will upscale the incoming signal to it's native resolution anyway. So further upscaling could actually degrade the picture and in the least be unnecessary.

  10. #35
    Forum Regular blackraven's Avatar
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    Your better off letting the TV handle any upscaling. Every thing that I have read states this is the way to go.
    Pass Labs X250 amp, BAT Vk-51se Preamp,
    Thorens TD-145 TT, Bellari phono preamp, Nagaoka MP-200 Cartridge
    Magnepan QR1.6 speakers
    Luxman DA-06 DAC
    Van Alstine Ultra Plus Hybrid Tube DAC
    Dual Martin Logan Original Dynamo Subs
    Parasound A21 amp
    Vintage Luxman T-110 tuner
    Magnepan MMG's, Grant Fidelity DAC-11, Class D CDA254 amp
    Monitor Audio S1 speakers, PSB B6 speakers
    Vintage Technic's Integrated amp
    Music Hall 25.2 CDP
    Adcom GFR 700 AVR
    Cables- Cardas, Silnote, BJC
    Velodyne CHT 8 sub

  11. #36
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    As long as there IS an upscaler somewhere in your system, it is better having
    it somewhere than nowhere. If your screen cannot do this, then get a player
    which can do that, if not, then receiver is the last option.

    As for dismissing anything above your budget, I disagree. There is
    nothing wrong getting something very nice, within reason. It is definately
    worth audtioning as much as you can. You need to find out just how good
    some brands and models actually are. Many people just won't stop advising
    don't audition anything above your budget, that's is not helpful at all.

    If you never end up auditioning the best, you will never have a real
    experience idea on just how good sound can be reproduced, processed,
    what your ears can pick up in the better systems that the low end
    systems cannot. Ok you cannot buy this or that, but you gain experience
    for yourself by finding out new features and new technologies of components.
    I got shown a 50K projector, then saw a HD DVD movie run through it.
    Absolutely incredible experience. It was a real eye opener to see just how
    great some systems actually are. It was totally worth it. I now know with
    my own eyes and ears just what full HD is, the Master HD sound, on a
    large screen etc.

    You gain no disadvantage of testing out equipment beyond what you can
    spend. Look at it this way, if you end up finding out about a specific
    system that you absolutely loved, but never gave yourself the chance to
    audition it before, then you'll be kicking yourself. Saying no I won't buy
    it is free. It is in your best interest to pester the sales staff and audition
    what you can. It is their job to show you, you have all of the power to
    buy in their shop or simply walk out. Let them earn their money, don't
    let them push you into buying only something you can afford, and
    never having a chance to try out what are their best sellers, what their
    expensive clientel buy, you need to find out how they service those
    people. If you are NOT impressed with their best stuff, perhaps their
    mid-low end stuff are unlikely to be that good either.
    Current System :

    Xindak XA8800MNE Mono Block Power Amplifier
    Cambridge Audio 840E Pre Amplifier
    Cambridge Audio 840C CD Player and DAC
    Dynaudio Contour 1.8 MK-II
    Pioneer DVR-640H (250 GB HDD)
    Foxtel Digital
    Samsung LCD 40in LA40M81BDX
    Sony PS 3 (source - CD/SACD/DVD/Blu-Ray)
    XLO Interconnects & speaker cables
    Sonos Wireless Music System

    Upgrade Path :

    1. Power regulation system

  12. #37
    Suspended
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Location
    St. Louis, MO, USA
    Posts
    10,176
    I have to agree with you Ozzie. I've heard a lot of gear that I can't afford and the gear I currently own is more than what I should have spent. Like you said though the experience and knowing what high quality gear can do is well worth the effort. My passion for audio is what drove me to go and listen. When I heard something new was in I didn't hesitate to go listen, it's like a new exhibit at the art museum. I may not have bought the $100k speakers but I bought the best I could afford and no harm was done by checking the flagships. I mean no offense but more people on this board need that experience, too many want big amps and speakers but fail to see, or have heard, the importance of a good source component. Some argue the mega dollar gear isn't worth it and you only gain a little for the lot spent, some still argue all amps are the same, or CD players, I think if they had more experience in the upper end of things these arguments would fall off drastically.

    When I was talking about the Krell, it was tongue in cheek. We may not be able to afford the $15k monoblocks but by all means one should experience it. It might sound odd but by listening to the larger Krell it helped me to better understand the sound of my integrated.

    The only draw back is sometimes ignorance is bliss, you are sitting in your listening chair with a smile and thinking, "I don't see how it could get any better than this", then when you check out some of the higher end gear your bubble gets burst. Some keep chasing, some say, "yes, it's better but I'm satisfied for now". I'm fortunately at that point now, there is better and I could probably upgrade some where but I really am afraid to change anything because I like what I am hearing now. I try not to sell my choices too hard, but I've owned Arcam, Krell and heard several other brands, when I heard Conrad Johnson though, it was, "yeah, that's, what I'm talking about". There are a few trade offs when compared to powerful gear like Krell but CJ's strengths are much stronger than the weaknesses are weak.

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