Pictures of your dream speakers

[jrhymeammo]

you start to feel something japping your thigh

I have never heard this expression before. Please enlighten me on this one because it sounds hilarious. Seriously.

JRA

[E-Stat]

Have any off you guys heard horn speakers do they sound good what kind of range do they do are they sensitive.

Oh yes, quite a few. It seems that you either like them or you don't - very little middle ground exists. Horns or waveguide designs are extremely efficient and consequently can offer very low distortion. Horn enthusiasts stress their wide dynamic range - translation: they can play LOUDLY! You want 120 db? No problemo. Due to the efficiency, they can be driven by flea sized power amplifiers which are easier and cheaper to sound good than high power amps.

From my perspective, however, all is not well. To one degree or another, all in my experience have some sort of hollow, steely, or honky colorations in the midrange. Proper driver blending requires very long distances. They are NOT for near field use. Decent bass response requires using horns of heroic proportions. Most, however, use conventional dynamic drivers that usually sound like they belong to a different speaker because of their different efficiency, "jump factor" and radiation pattern. That's what I find to be the case with the Avant-Gardes. They are the antithesis to the coherency I value most with full range electrostats. Here's an approach to solve that issue that more closely resembles HVAC ductwork :



I think one's musical preferences help determine their popularity. Rock or jazz is *produced* through large horn based sound reinforcement systems, so the "live" experience includes their sonic signature. Acoustical music fans like me, on the other hand, typically prefer greater neutrality. To each his own! There are many horn fanciers with a special forum over at AA.

rw

[sgt bass08]

I have never heard this expression before. Please enlighten me on this one because it sounds hilarious. Seriously.

JRA

yea i meant to say jabbing

E-stat nice speakers there are really big like the idea of separation of the low ends to the high ends on the horns.I know this as got nothing to do with the speakers but the room needs decorating and a new light bulb and what are them holes at the back of the room it looks like a crack heads house

[basite]

E-stat nice speakers there are really big like the idea of separation of the low ends to the high ends on the horns.I know this as got nothing to do with the speakers but the room needs decorating and a new light bulb and what are them holes at the back of the room it looks like a crack heads house

I figured the small holes are windows, looks like this system is placed in a basement...

[E-Stat]

I figured the small holes are windows, looks like this system is placed in a basement...

That's my guess, too.

rw

[audio amateur]

yea i meant to say jabbing

E-stat nice speakers there are really big like the idea of separation of the low ends to the high ends on the horns.I know this as got nothing to do with the speakers but the room needs decorating and a new light bulb and what are them holes at the back of the room it looks like a crack heads house

looooool!

[Florian]

Well i ordered new bass panels for my Grands, looks like i am back up again in like 8 to 12 weeks with my babys. Yippi!

[johnny p]

well.... My "dream" setup is just that..... a "dream" I want beutiful clean accurate sound with no wires, no panels, no electronics, no cones, no domes, no enclosure........

"invisible sound" if you will!

[O'Shag]

Another one of the Acapella Triolon Excaliburs. the tweeter is Ion Plasma, i.e. zero mass.

[E-Stat]

well.... My "dream" setup is just that..... a "dream" I want beutiful clean accurate sound with no wires, no panels, no electronics, no cones, no domes, no enclosure...

There have been a number of zero mass plasma based tweeters, but I'm aware of only one attempt to make a full range version. Nelson Pass created a full range "ion cloud" speaker but it had some environmental drawbacks, i.e. creation of unhealthy levels of ozone.

Ion Cloud

It will be nice when we can be like Captain Picard and simply ask our computer to play our favorites using an invisible force field sound projector.

rw

[O'Shag]

I heard the Everest at last years High End show in Munich. What a Godawfull speaker! Screetchy, no driver integration, agressive and no tonality. Juck! Seriously, id rather take a Nautilus 801

Florian, it could have been the room at the show, or perhaps the wrong electronics driving the speakers. With a speaker that is so sensitive, even the cables make a difference. Problem with very sensitive speakers is that its easy for them to sound bad.
Sgt Bass - With respect to performance, I do assure you there is not a Cerwin Vega on the planet could come within a country mile of the JBL Everest. Given you likin g for bass, I'm sure you'd love the Everests. They do have excellent bass definition, extension and dynamics.

[O'Shag]

I deleted the previous message because I got the picture upload wrong. Here is the correct picture. These were my dream speaker for many years and now I do own them. They live up to my expectations. The KEF reference 109 - Maidstone. They are the wierd and wonderful looking ones on the left. They wiegh 247lbs each, are 4ft tall and 2 ft wide. The midrange and tweeter are a co-incident source unit like the TAD Model 1 ie the tweeter sits 'inside' the midrange unit.

[O'Shag]

A bad picture of the backside of The Maidstone. there are 20 terminals/binding posts per side.Gold enough for the Flying Dutchman (24kt Gold-plated). Can be quad-amped with total bypass of internal xovers. In person, The Maidstone has got a real purdy backside, it would be a real toss-up between it and Heather Locklear's. One thing fo' sho' The Maidstone sounds purdier.

[O'Shag]

The Maidstone Supertweeter

[blackraven]

I'll take Heather Locklears backside any day, you can keep the speakers!

[O'Shag]

I'll take Heather Locklears backside any day, you can keep the speakers!

Mate, she is vey fine indeed! LOL I bet though as an MD, you've seen a fair old range of derriere-s. My son btw is studying to be a doctor.

E-Stat,

I heard that Nelson Pass was actually admitted to the hospital with breathing problems when at CES he exposed himself too long near that full-range plasma speaker.

Thing is, if you ever hear the Acapella ION plasma tweeter, it is arresting -not so much for the flash and fireworks, but for the eery naturalness of its reproduction. When you listen to it at length, you begin to realize that other tweeters (possibly with the exception of the best diamond or beryllium tweeters) have some artifacts or sound cues that give them away. The Acapella Ion is sensational with voice - to the point where you can be fooled into believing there is a real person singing in the room. I've heard the Acapella Violon High on many occasions. I would have to agree with the notion that it is the finest tweeter in the world bar none. The rest of the Violon though, is not on the same level as the tweeter. I came close to buying that speaker, but ultimately I felt is wasn't worth the money. The speaker I have now is a better transducer overall, ion tweeter or not.

[bobsticks]

Another one of the Acapella Triolon Excaliburs. the tweeter is Ion Plasma, i.e. zero mass.

I've seen this room with a view before, albeit with a vast array of different speakers. This guy is either a dealer or a SERIOUS hobbyist...and, yes, I'd love to hear those.

[O'Shag]

Bobsticks, I think its the Audio Federation, and he has some incredible stuff there. The Triolon Excaliburs are gone now, poor sods. I guess the manufacturer took them back.

[sgt bass08]

hey guys just thought i show you another picture off the Alexandria X-2 i was just wondering as any one heard this speaker play as the more i see it the more it makes me wanna rob a bank

[basite]

hey guys just thought i show you another picture off the Alexandria X-2 i was just wondering as any one heard this speaker play as the more i see it the more it makes me wanna rob a bank

I've heard it's 'little' brother (the Maxx 2, which is big too )
impressive, big, LOUD (no, wait, make that crazy loud), but yet I've heard much better in it's price range.

Take a pair of Avalon's or so, much better IMO...

Keep them spinning,
Bert.

[O'Shag]

I hear the X2s quite regularly as a friend of mine has them. They are very good indeed. To be honest, The Maidstone sound better though...

[O'Shag]

I've heard it's 'little' brother (the Maxx 2, which is big too )
impressive, big, LOUD (no, wait, make that crazy loud), but yet I've heard much better in it's price range.

Take a pair of Avalon's or so, much better IMO...

Keep them spinning,
Bert.

Bert, I wouldn't say that the Avalon Eidelon or Sentinels are much better. The X2s are very good indeed. I think the best Avalons do sound a bit more pure, with that diamond tweeter. The X2 is more dynamic imo, although can sound a wee bit too hard and a little disjointed at times to my ears. But I can see where your coming from.

[E-Stat]

Bert, I wouldn't say that the Avalon Eidelon or Sentinels are much better. The X2s are very good indeed. I think the best Avalons do sound a bit more pure, with that diamond tweeter. The X2 is more dynamic imo, although can sound a wee bit too hard and a little disjointed at times to my ears. But I can see where your coming from.

Speaker choice is highly personalized based upon one's priorities. There really isn't a single best or set of criteria and every one has trade offs of one sort or another. I find all multi-way speakers a bit *disjointed* as you put it as compared to full range single driver systems.

rw

[O'Shag]

Good point.... Some will prefer a certain type of presentation, or as you say, consider an aspect of performance more important than someone else might. Well you do have the advantage of a single 'driver' . The Soundlabs U-1 is an excellent speaker . Yeah, but that disjointedness can sure sound good!!

[E-Stat]

Good point.... Some will prefer a certain type of presentation, or as you say, consider an aspect of performance more important than someone else might.

Exactly. I did some research on your KEFs and found a review by Tony Cordesman. I am intrigued by the coincidental tweeter/midrange arrangement. I would think that would be a great approach to better blend dissimilar drivers.

I've been a fan of dipolar line array planars since I first heard Tympani Is driven by an all Audio Research system when I was 17. And that was a loooonnnng time ago. I can tell you the piece of music I first heard - Paul Simon's Kodachrome - not a favorite at all but I immediately heard a kind of realism I had never heard before. A couple years later ('76), I was invited over to hear Dr. Cooledge's Dayton-Wright electrostats. Similarly, I can tell you (one of) the first pieces of music I heard on them - an EMI pressing of Prokofiev's 2nd Piano Concerto by Michel Beroff. The piano sounded so natural and realistic. There was absolutely no notion of "The Bass" or "The Midrange" or "The Top". I have been seduced by that harmonic integrity and coherency ever since.

The first time I heard the Sea Cliff system was back in '80 when Harry had the Infinity IRS sourced by Koetsu - Goldmund T-3 / Goldmund Table / Denneson JC-80 / Conrad-Johnson Premier One. The resolution and image size / specificity redefined my point of reference, but... while the bass was spectacular with all those servo driven woofers and kilowatts driving them, they sounded like they belonged to a different speaker. There was a decided discontinuity between the dipolar EMIMs and the monopole woofer towers.

Fast forward twenty years to when he had the Nola Grand References. I will never forget the first time I heard that system (circa '01 or so). Once again, my point of reference was completely recalibrated with levels of resolution and "make the walls completely disappear" imaging I had never heard before. I heard things on familiar music I had never heard before. Yet, while the ribbon top was super sweet and the mids well defined, the bass still had a different character. Maybe I'm just hyper-sensitive to that aspect of the reproduction.

Given my particular penchant for coherency, I am dumbfounded by Apogee's statement product. Here is a company that produced the finest full range dipolar ribbon speakers on the planet. Incredible. Then they added some monopole dynamic woofers. Huh? By contrast, Ray Kimber chose to augment the output of Sound Lab Majestics by creating a multiple speaker array for demonstrating his Iso Mike multi-channel recording method. The Majestics, BTW are Dr. West's experiment with entering the pro sound reinforcement market. They were specifically designed for creating large arrays. He did a proof-of-concept in Utah's largest auditorium by stacking six pair of nine foot tall 922s (nine foot tall, 22 degree radiation angle) in an 18 foot by 20 foot array per side. Now, that would be my approach to maintain coherency and open up the dynamics and power handling a bit!

Also, I value my hearing and listen at lower levels than many audiophiles. Average levels run in the 70s and peak in the low 90s. I plumb dynamic range at the bottom rather than the top - which is why I appreciate the lower noise floor afforded by better cabling and throwing the preamp out of the loop for my digital source. I've found that the better the system gets, the lower the output level required to sound realistic. I'm over wearing earplugs for "live" amplified concerts.

rw