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  1. #26
    Loving This kexodusc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Luis31
    Thanks for your reply kexodusc,

    I also have a pair of Studio 20 on 36" stands for rear surrounds. Although, I have plenty of room behind our couch on our dedicated HT/Music room (I can put them back as much as 10ft. as a matter of fact...), I only have them about 5ft. from the listening position. I like to put them further back, but I'm concern the paning effect between the side surrounds and back surrounds could be affected.

    Your thoughts?

    _Luis
    I think you could do what you do with front main speakers. Start at your listening position, and make an equilateral triangle (all sides the same distance) from your head to one speaker, to the next, and back to your head. To in a bit and go from there.
    My manual said to place the rears opposite the front mains...that's what I tried. Paning seemed to work better that way. You can move them closer if desired.
    Experiment, it's fun!!!

  2. #27
    Suspended topspeed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dvjorge
    You say when they make good speakers for your ears... but that isn't important for Paradigm, you might have the worse ears in the world who know? RGA, I don't have any particular problem with you. I am tired to read your posts and probably you my posts during long time here. Lately, when I see some guy posting something that says the world Paradigm, I see you attacking any positive opinion about Paradigm in every possible way. Time before, you were in love with Reference 3M, for you they were the best in this world. Ok, that's right...agree but let other taste other flavors. Now, you don't belive in any other thing than AN. Fabulous! Enjoy. Are the AN better than Paradigm? No, for you maybe.
    Are the Studio Serie good speakers? Yes, they are. Are they hard to beat for their price? Yes, they are. Are they a good value-price? Yes, they are. Are they for HT ? No, they aren't. They are for both, music and home cinema. Are they state of the art? Yes, they are. Are they hi-end? Yes, they are. Can they compete with B&W and other hi-end speaker builders? Yes, they can. Are there many happy people who own them? Yes, there are. Is it an intelligent advice to recommend them? Yes, it is. Are they the best speakers in the world? No, they aren't. Are there other speakers which sound better than the Studio Serie in their price scale? A few that maybe you can count them with your fingers. So, Why to try to confuse people who are focused in them..... this the only thing I don't understand.
    Jorge.
    Look Jorge, I'm as sick of RGA's incessant deification of AN as the next guy. And while I'm in no way trying to stand up for him(he's a big boy, he can do it himself) I find your ranting rather ironic. Here you are chastising a guy for dithering on about AN and yet your Paradigm's are on no less a pedestal. I've got news for you, the Studio's aren't "hi-end", whatever that is. Ask Paradigm and they'll probably agree. That's why they have their Signature line. The Studio's are mid-fi, much in the same way B&W's 700's and Monitor Audio's Gold lines are. Understand that I'm not slighting the 100's in any way, in fact think they are pretty decent speakers.

    I'm glad you like your Studio's, that's what this hobby is all about. However, you need to grow up, put your ego in check, and realize that on a public forum, there are going to be people that will disagree with you. Get over it.

  3. #28
    all around good guy Jim Clark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by topspeed
    Look Jorge, I'm as sick of RGA's incessant deification of AN as the next guy.
    LOL. I guess I am the next guy. j/k of course. Well, kinda. Nah, I am, I suppose...

    Truth be told, he cracks me up for a variety of reasons.

    jc
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  4. #29
    Loving This kexodusc's Avatar
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    Couldn't we all just get along?

  5. #30
    RGA
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    Quote Originally Posted by dvjorge
    You say when they make good speakers for your ears... but that isn't important for Paradigm, you might have the worse ears in the world who know? RGA, I don't have any particular problem with you. I am tired to read your posts and probably you my posts during long time here. Lately, when I see some guy posting something that says the world Paradigm, I see you attacking any positive opinion about Paradigm in every possible way. Time before, you were in love with Reference 3M, for you they were the best in this world. Ok, that's right...agree but let other taste other flavors. Now, you don't belive in any other thing than AN. Fabulous! Enjoy. Are the AN better than Paradigm? No, for you maybe.
    Are the Studio Serie good speakers? Yes, they are. Are they hard to beat for their price? Yes, they are. Are they a good value-price? Yes, they are. Are they for HT ? No, they aren't. They are for both, music and home cinema. Are they state of the art? Yes, they are. Are they hi-end? Yes, they are. Can they compete with B&W and other hi-end speaker builders? Yes, they can. Are there many happy people who own them? Yes, there are. Is it an intelligent advice to recommend them? Yes, it is. Are they the best speakers in the world? No, they aren't. Are there other speakers which sound better than the Studio Serie in their price scale? A few that maybe you can count them with your fingers. So, Why to try to confuse people who are focused in them..... this the only thing I don't understand.
    Jorge.
    I am not too interested in other people's opinion of Paradigm or Audio Note or any other speaker. If you think Paradigm is high end that's fine. If you think they compete with more expensive speakers that's fine too. I don;t think the current paradigm's even compete with their predecessor let alon other speakers.

    There is a love on for B&W too. And I can count numerous reviews that say soemthing at the end like "This speaker competes with others at double the money" or something along those lines. Of course this is not a lie because Bang and Olluffson makes very expensive garbage so it's easy to say Paradigm makes speakers beating some at doublt the money = I might even agree when you're talking about B&O.

    I make no pretense that I'm right - I state my reviews subjectively and I said that, I tell people before I started the Audio Note reviews to ignore them because I am biased toward their sound(and I also realize people are tired of my one note tone. I laid my bias up-front I stated the reason why I like them.

    I tell no one to buy without hearing (That would be a disaster no matter how good the reviews or even if you think you might have similar tastes to me). The Paradigm Atom is good value for money - better than that and I reviewed them on my 3rd page I think.

    You are more than welcome to read Stereophile magazine which i have no doubt will place the 100 in their recommended componants listing - Hmm - I'm betting Class B - let's see If I'm right. The 705 hmm I'm betting Class B Low frequency limited. We'll find out in November I believe.

    What will be better to you will depend on you. I know what is better for me. I'd continue to recommend Reference 3a's MM De Capo. Daniel Dehay has retired from Reference 3a and new designs have been coming out which I have not heard so I can't say anything about them. They are very musical loudspeakers - but I did buy the AN K over the De Capo because of the midrange voicing. The AN K sounds more accurate(or less warm depending how you look at it).

    By all means Dvorge you are more than welcome to ignore Audio Note and or any recommendation I make - like I have said - it is for people who go out and ACTUALLY listen for several hours, BEFORE they buy, and who are generally unhappy with most of what they're hearing. If people fall into that camp then here is a totally other sound to try out. If you love what you hear in those other usual suspects products then you don't need to be on this forum - you certainly don't need my advice and you certainly don't need Audio Note. But I suspect that people who go out and listen and then hum and haw and feel unsure are probably feeling unsure for a good reason. No harm in trying something different is there Dvorge? It's not like nOhr where you have to buy first and listen second.

    Audio Note has no product literature, they don't talk about specs - They want you to listen against any other brand you can in the same room with the same gear. Now how can this be bad advice.

  6. #31
    Loving This kexodusc's Avatar
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    Guys, couldn't we all get back to picking fights with moderators and administrators again? That was more fun than The World vs. RGA.
    Give the guy a break already...
    Someone please, stop the insanity.

  7. #32
    Forum Regular Woochifer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by N. Abstentia
    Yeah, saying they should sell for FOUR times what they did is probably a bit too much I guess.

    Put it this way, they were $1900 which is the same as the Studio 100's (or was at the time). The Active 40's already had amps and electronic crossovers built in, so by the time I factored in the cost of 2 amps and an electronic crossover the 100's would have cost over $4000. Plus I don't like floorstanders so I would have went with the 40's anyway.

    I think the reason that Paradigm quit selling them is that they were too much speaker for the money, and raising the price on them would have pretty much killed the market for them anyway. Most people in my situation would have probably just taken that $2000 and bought Studio 40's and a $600 amp and had $400 left over. But to me, the active bi-amping and no passive crossovers put the Active 40's over the top.
    Actually, Paradigm quit selling the Active series because they sold poorly (same reason why they quit offering the wood veneer finish with the Studio series), but that's pretty much the story of powered monitors in the North American market in general -- buyers just aren't ready for them. With so many people vested in their amplifier purchases, they're not going to junk them for an active speaker, despite the design's many inherent advantages.

    If there's any room for a breakthrough in the active speaker market, I have a feeling that it will come in the form of digital monitors, where instead of analog interconnects, the speakers will use digital inputs and have the DACs built in.

  8. #33
    Suspended topspeed's Avatar
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    Just for the record, I wasn't slamming RGA. He readily admits he pushes AN too much, so it wasn't like I was letting the cat out of the bag or anything...

    Maybe we should start another ss vs. tube thread or mention the "B" word? Those always provide good kindling for a few flames .

  9. #34
    Forum Regular Woochifer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dvjorge
    Guys,

    I have been reading and participating at this forum during more than two years. Like many of you, I have been spending many hours of my life in this hooby. People, Paradigm Studio are great speakers, more than good. Nobody can say another thing. Forget about RGA's opinion. It is more than clear he has something negative with them. His opinion won't change. Even Paradigm making the best speakers in the world, RGA won't accept it.
    When you want to know which is the right speakers for you, go and listen and you will know. I have to thank Paradigm. I am a happy owner of studio 100 v2 and after many years of my life listening hi-fi staff, I can say the studio serie is one of the best for the money people have to enjoy at this time. IMO
    Thanks,
    Jorge.
    As others have pointed out, speakers are a VERY subjective area here since every speaker out there makes significant compromises of some kind. The speakers that we individually prefer are the ones whose compromises we can live with. IMO, RGA frequently goes overboard with his oft-stated writings on various speaker models, and more often than not, I disagree with him. But, does that make him wrong? Of course not.

    Conversely, I own a set of Paradigm Studio series speakers. Are they the best speakers in their price range? They are at least the speakers in my price range that best fit my preferences and uses, so for ME they are the best ones. Whether or not they are the best for anybody else is an entirely different question. It's fine to like your speakers, I know that I do, but with so much variation between speakers out there, there are bound to be plenty of people out there that don't like Paradigm at all.

  10. #35
    Silence of the spam Site Moderator Geoffcin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kexodusc
    Guys, couldn't we all get back to picking fights with moderators and administrators again? That was more fun than The World vs. RGA.
    Give the guy a break already...
    Someone please, stop the insanity.
    Quote Originally Posted by kexodusc
    (oh man, I'm rushing to RGA's defense?)

    We've already got no DBT rules, do we need no Audio Note rules too?

    Disciplining member's is the Admin/Moderator's job not a poster's.
    I've always like ar.com because compared to so many other boards, it offers (IMO) the best balance of open exchange of all ideas and philosphies without brutal and rediculous flame wars, insults, etc (though we get our share here, just not as bad).
    If we just had rules then a computer program could do all the moderating. Program it to delete all the prases like "Audio Note rules", or "Paradigm sucks", and be done with it.

    AR has real live moderators here now. Enthusiasts just like yourselves.
    There's not ONE post about AN speakers, or any other speaker that I've cut, and I don't think any have been by any of the moderators.

    I would never let a flame war break out here, and I did consider editing the post because of it's direct attack on RGA. After consideration I decided to leave it. What ever your opinions are of RGA, I'm sure he can, and will stick up for his opinions. (in 500 words or more sometimes!) But, if RGA get's upset and yells "stop the insanity" I will be more than happy to moderate in his behalf.
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  11. #36
    Forum Regular Woochifer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by N. Abstentia
    To be honest, I didn't give the 100's a hard, hard look because I knew I didn't have the power to drive them properly, and I knew I didn't want a speaker that big. I wasn't too overly impressed with what I did hear when comparing them to the 40's.

    Now I'm torn on what to do for rear speakers. I WANT Studio 40's, but I just can't justify that $1000. I also thought about getting Monitor 5's since they are the same size as the 40's (would look good as a system) and they can handle lower frequencies better than the Atoms I'm using now (as a temporary solution). However now I'm throwing one more option into the mix...Studio 20's on taller (28") stands. I can probably get a pair of V2 20's used for around $500-ish which is the same ballpark as new Monitor 5's but I'm wondering how much I'll miss the lower end of a speaker like a Monitor 5 or Studio 40, as I would run it large but a Studio 20 would probably need to be 'small'.

    Any thoughts on that? What's more important for rear surrounds..that extra bottom of a Monitor 5 or the slightly better SQ of the Studios? Dillemas!
    The height on those 40s will make it somewhat difficult to properly position them for surround use. Ideally, you want the drivers above ear level (that's what Dolby recommends for systems that will be used for both movies and multichannel music), and the Studio 40's height would make it pretty difficult to balance on a tall stand. I use the Studio 20s as surrounds, and the squatter profile of that model gives you more flexibility with the placement.

    If you're using the 40s up front, the 20s are an excellent timbre match for that model. The Monitor 5 will not give you nearly as good a timbre match, and in a 5.1 configuration, the timbre matching trumps all other considerations. Believe me, when you get a good timbre match and properly align the speakers, the true potential of surround sound really comes out. The stability of the side imaging, the size of the soundstage, and the depth perception really come to life when you use timbre matched speakers. Two-channel playback of any kind simply cannot convey that effect to this degree.

    The only noticeable difference between the 20 and 40 is in the low frequencies, and in a multichannel configuration, you're probably going to want to set the 20s to "Small" anyway and redirect the lows into either the sub or the mains. As Kex said, the surround channels for most movies will not contain a lot of low frequency information. With multichannel music, there might be more in the lows.

  12. #37
    Forum Regular Woochifer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Luis31
    Thanks for your reply kexodusc,

    I also have a pair of Studio 20 on 36" stands for rear surrounds. Although, I have plenty of room behind our couch on our dedicated HT/Music room (I can put them back as much as 10ft. as a matter of fact...), I only have them about 5ft. from the listening position. I like to put them further back, but I'm concern the paning effect between the side surrounds and back surrounds could be affected.

    Your thoughts?

    _Luis
    Ideally, you would have all speakers equidistant from the listening position. The panning effect is best if the speakers are the same distance, and arranged with the surrounds slightly behind the listening position. The ITU multichannel reference placement specifies 30 degrees off-center for the mains and 110 degrees off center for the surrounds in a 5.1 configuration. Dolby's guidelines recommend raising the surround speakers above ear level and pointed directly at one another, if the system will be used for both movies and surround music. This is how I have my system aligned, and it's by far the best sounding arrangement that I've tried. (see pic link below)

    http://gallery.audioreview.com/showp...cat=500&page=1

    If you have the mains and the surrounds setup a different distances from the listening position, then you need to change the delay timing by about 1 ms on your receiver's setup menu for every foot of difference in the distance between the mains and the surrounds (newer receivers let you enter the distance, and will compensate for the delay automatically). Just make sure that you use a SPL meter to check the levels for all speakers.

  13. #38
    Loving This kexodusc's Avatar
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    Ah, geez, Geofficin...I'm just tryin' to lighten things up here. He brings it on himself, but there's usually more exciting topics than RGA and Audio Note bashing.
    Actually, the moderators have been pretty good so far. I was just making fun of the fact the mob here seems to pick a new public enemy to gang up on every week. Bose, DBT's Audio Note, RGA, the Moderators, etc...
    Cut me some slack, I'm all alone in a motel in Boston with my computer and only 3 beer left...

  14. #39
    Silence of the spam Site Moderator Geoffcin's Avatar
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    Your in the right town.

    Quote Originally Posted by kexodusc
    Ah, geez, Geofficin...I'm just tryin' to lighten things up here. He brings it on himself, but there's usually more exciting topics than RGA and Audio Note bashing.
    Actually, the moderators have been pretty good so far. I was just making fun of the fact the mob here seems to pick a new public enemy to gang up on every week. Bose, DBT's Audio Note, RGA, the Moderators, etc...
    Cut me some slack, I'm all alone in a motel in Boston with my computer and only 3 beer left...
    For beer that is. Take a trip over to John Harvard's, or Commonwealth Brewing. If you want to stay in they can fill your growler for you, or pick up a six-pack of Ipswich Ale from one of the local package stores. Best bottled ale this side of the prime meridian.

    Yes, it does seem like we've got a gang of English Soccer fans in here sometimes. (Imagine being banned from whole continents?!)
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  15. #40
    RGA
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    Kex gotta try some Sleeman's Honey Brown.

  16. #41
    Suspended topspeed's Avatar
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    That Ipswich is good stuff indeed. The wife's family is from Bahston so we go there quite often. Cool town, absolute Hell to drive in. The Big Dig has everything so assbackwards that half the time my nav system said I was driving in the middle of the Charles River and those infernal roundabouts should have stayed on the other side of the pond. Great city tho.

    Throw one back for me KC.

  17. #42
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    kexodusc & Geoffcin:

    http://www.victorybeer.com/

    Find a place near you that carries their beer and thank me later.

    Bill

  18. #43
    Loving This kexodusc's Avatar
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    Funny you mentioned soccer, Geoffcin...there were tons of foreign Soccer fans at the airport talking about Honduras upsetting Costa Rica or something...not a follower, but I guess World Cup qualifying is going on? The airport was "very colorful" to say the least.

    Sleeman's Honey ain't bad....but when I'm back in Canada I'm slamming back my favorite three...Keith's Pale Ale, Kokanee's Glacier Beer, and Moosehead Green...maybe some good ol' Molson while I'm at it...hell, even the Bud tastes better up there.
    When it comes to fried chicken, nobody can touch the USA (and I loves me some good fried chicken), but man oh man, nobody makes beer like they do up north.
    Oh, Canada!

  19. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Woochifer
    If you have the mains and the surrounds setup a different distances from the listening position, then you need to change the delay timing by about 1 ms on your receiver's setup menu for every foot of difference in the distance between the mains and the surrounds (newer receivers let you enter the distance, and will compensate for the delay automatically). Just make sure that you use a SPL meter to check the levels for all speakers.
    Thanks for the advice, Woochifer

    Nice system you got there! I really like your stands for the Studio 20's. My surrounds and mains are not at the same distance from the listening position. Mains are 9ft from the sweet spot, while the surrounds are approximately 5ft. The Denon AVR-5803 allows you to enter the distances of each speaker to the listening position, so I entered the "actual" distances.

    Do I still need to add additional delay or am I OK as it is?

    -Luis

  20. #45
    Loving This kexodusc's Avatar
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    Hey there, Wooch, where did you get those wall hangings behind your speakers in the gallery picture of your system? (I know you've probably talked about this before, but you post so often I couldn't find it). Just saw the room in my new house, I gotta feeling I'm gonna need some rather soon.

    BTW: Whatever happened to the baker's rack?

  21. #46
    Forum Regular Woochifer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Luis31
    Thanks for the advice, Woochifer

    Nice system you got there! I really like your stands for the Studio 20's. My surrounds and mains are not at the same distance from the listening position. Mains are 9ft from the sweet spot, while the surrounds are approximately 5ft. The Denon AVR-5803 allows you to enter the distances of each speaker to the listening position, so I entered the "actual" distances.

    Do I still need to add additional delay or am I OK as it is?

    -Luis
    Thanx! Those stands are probably overkill for most people, but I wanted to elevate my speakers over 40" and there are very few tall stands out there that can support a speaker as heavy as the 20s. You're fine up to about 36", but anything taller than that is not easy to find. Those stands actually weigh 65 lbs. each, so they will break a leg before they accidentally tip over! The first gallery pic has links to the manufacturer's site if you're interested in finding out more about them.

    As far as your receiver settings go, if you enter the actual distances, then the receiver should automatically do the delay timing. If you want to make the surround effect feel more spacious, you can enter a shorter distance for the surrounds and that will increase the delay.

  22. #47
    Forum Regular Woochifer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kexodusc
    Hey there, Wooch, where did you get those wall hangings behind your speakers in the gallery picture of your system? (I know you've probably talked about this before, but you post so often I couldn't find it). Just saw the room in my new house, I gotta feeling I'm gonna need some rather soon.

    BTW: Whatever happened to the baker's rack?
    Baker's rack?! Man, you haven't checked the gallery in a while! I got that Salamander audio rack around the holidays last year because my wife wanted to reclaim that baker's rack that I was using before. So, instead of a HDTV, I wound up with an audio rack! But, I must admit that it looks pretty slick and I especially like the perforated metal door, which conceals the components but still allows you to use a remote.

    As far as the wall hangings go, those are homemade acoustic panels. I just took some acoustic ceiling panels, wrapped them in rag cloth, clamped a couple of wood strips, and then hung them off of a molding. They actually make a decent bit of improvement in the imaging because they eliminate some of the reflections off the backwall, which is close enough to create a time domain distortion. I linked some of my previous posts about those acoustic panels in the gallery comments. Look it up and you can read about it.

    http://gallery.audioreview.com/showp...cat=500&page=1

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    Woochifer,

    Out of curiosity,

    Are you using the brass "gold plated" jumpers that come with the Studio 20's? I did for the longest time until I experimented with a "very short" 4" cut of the same speaker wire I have connected to the speakers and felt it worked better. With the stock, brass jumper the tweeter sounded somewhat "edgy". The wire jumper took the "edginess" away...

  24. #49
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    Here's how I've got my 20's set up:



    Bill

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