Paradigm Studio 20 vs B&W 602 S3

[Woochifer]

Definitely try them out for yourself at home. The Studio 20 v.3 is one of the best speakers in its price class that I've heard, and has particular strengths in how it images and projects a big soundstage. Very impressive overall speaker.

When I was auditioning speakers a few years, the previous versions of these speakers were among my finalists. The 600 series overall had a more balanced sound, but it was also less involving with home theater sources, which is why I opted for the Studios.

These S3s are voiced somewhat differently than the previous versions that I heard, so that might have changed. However, the 20 v.3 versions are now better balanced than before, but still retain the involving character that I appreciated with the v.2 series (which I own) while adding a noticeable improvement in the imaging and ability to "disappear", which were already strengths to begin with. Like I said, try it for yourself. When I auditioned the two series for myself, the choice was pretty obvious for my preferences.

As far as the center channels go, definitely take a careful listen and make sure that the levels are matched as closely as possible. And if you plan to add surround speakers, take a good listen to those as well, because the quality of the ancillary speakers can vary a lot from manufacturer to manufacturer. The new Studio v.3 center speakers are a good timbre match for the mains and use identical drivers to the rest of the Studio series. In general, Paradigm has done a good job making center and surround speakers that are up to the quality of their mains, and can voice match them. The surround speakers in particular give you a good option between the dipolar surrounds or going with another set of direct firing bookshelf speakers.

B&W has had some missteps with their ancillary speakers, so I would watch out for which center and surround models you opt for. With the previous 600 series, their lower priced center speaker model was a less than adequate match for the mains, and the dipolar surround speakers were even worse. If you prefer dipolar surrounds, I'm not altogether sure that B&W's current surrounds improved upon the previous versions by much. If you go with B&W, you're probably better off going with another set of direct firing bookshelf speakers.

[Yeti2003]

Thanks for the all the input. Hopefully the local dealers will allow a home audition and the choice will be easier. Speaking of audio dealers, I've heard you should never pay retail at an audio store. How does one go about asking for a discount?

Also can anyone recommend speaker stands for either the B&W or Studio speakers? Should I just go with whatever the dealer uses assuming it sounds good?

[jasmit]

When I was auditioning main speakers, the B&W 602 S3's, the Focal-JM Labs Chorus 707S and the Paradigm Reference Studio 20 v.3's ended up being on my short list among those speakers that I could afford. I agree with brulaha that Paradigm's Studio series matches more closely with B&W's 700 series. In fact, I really liked the B&W 705's; they were the best looking and best sounding speakers I auditioned. But, alas, they were way out of my price range. So, among those three that made my short list, I opted for the 20's. To my ears, they are truly amazing speakers for their price point. They are designed and made in-house by Paradigm and seem to be solidly built. BTW, they are designed to be used with the grills on.

I agree with all of the previous comments though about auditioning them, preferably in your home. It's what sounds best to you that's paramount.

Can't help you with the stands; my 20's rest on bookshelves.

[RGA]

For a deal just ask what the best price you can give me them for. You can of course draw it out by leaving your number - they may call you back after they have talked it over with the owner - ie just like car dealers - and they;ll usually come down - it does depend a bit on what you're buying. B&W and Paradigm should come down 15-20% maybe more.

[nick250]

Thanks for the all the input. Hopefully the local dealers will allow a home audition and the choice will be easier. Speaking of audio dealers, I've heard you should never pay retail at an audio store. How does one go about asking for a discount?

Also can anyone recommend speaker stands for either the B&W or Studio speakers? Should I just go with whatever the dealer uses assuming it sounds good?

I purchased Studio 20s about four years ago and got the matching black Paradigm stands that I believe were around $100 at the time. The only reason that I can think of for not getting the Paradigm stands would be cosmetic IMHO. Also instead of buying the matching Paradigm center I got a third Studio 20 to use as my center. I use Paradigm Mini Monitors for my back speakers. I am very happy with the system which is used 50/50 music/movies.

Nick

[shokhead]

Everybody has fav's that sound right on THERE system. Thats why its important for you to hear them on the same or as close of a system as you are using. Make sure you bring along your music/movie to here. My B&W's sound great on my Denon as they might sould like crap on a Kenwood.

[Woochifer]

Everybody has fav's that sound right on THERE system. Thats why its important for you to hear them on the same or as close of a system as you are using. Make sure you bring along your music/movie to here. My B&W's sound great on my Denon as they might sould like crap on a Kenwood.

And I'm sure that YOU'RE [sic] favorite sound is on YOU'RE system too.

Until you actually hear the B&Ws on a Kenwood, you have no idea if they would sound like "crap." Typically, the characteristics of the speakers are by far the biggest variable, then comes the room acoustics, then further down on the list is the amplification. Most of the differences I've heard, except with difficult to drive speakers, are subtle when the amplification gets switched out. The acoustical variations between demo rooms can be more than enough to negate any differences that you might detect in the amplification, so it's actually more important to make sure the listening comparisons take place in the same room than it is to make sure that the system components are comparable.

[RGA]

Actually I disagree - my Wharfedales are 95db snesitive horn speakers 8ohm - adding a Bryston Power amp - and nothing else no changing rooms no repositioning.

This made more of a substantial change to the sound than moving the speakers around a bit. But then there is a reason Bryston has been selling so long - it's not the everyone is delusional or that they're running impossible to drive loudspeakers - it's because receivers suck donkey balls.

Interestingly Arcam made the 600 series sound a lot better than the Denon flagship 5200?? it's been a while.

Then there is the OTO SE I recently heard again - they carry some nice SS amps from MF and Bryston among many others. I thank Bryston for getting me interested in better gear - the OTO unfortunately makes the Bryston unlistenable with those speakers anyway.

[NickWH]

Well, back to the subject at hand...

I was wondering if anyone here has compared the Paradigm Studio 20 and the B&W DM602S3 with the Monitor Audio Silver S2? Could be a contender for the original poster.

http://www.monitoraudio.com/products.../series/s2.htm

[Woochifer]

Actually I disagree - my Wharfedales are 95db snesitive horn speakers 8ohm - adding a Bryston Power amp - and nothing else no changing rooms no repositioning.

This made more of a substantial change to the sound than moving the speakers around a bit. But then there is a reason Bryston has been selling so long - it's not the everyone is delusional or that they're running impossible to drive loudspeakers - it's because receivers suck donkey balls.

And the post that I was responding to had to do with comparing a Denon and a Kenwood. I'm simply pointing out that doing comparisons in the same room is more important than making sure that the amplification is comparable to what you got at home. Given a choice between auditioning speakers in different rooms with the same amp versus auditioning speakers in the same room using a different amp than you use at home, sorry but the most meaningful comparison will be in the same room because the tonal variations between rooms are much larger and more audible.

Besides, in your view, they would both "suck donkey balls" so therefore ANY speakers would sound like crap on ANY receivers, right? As I've pointed out before, many manufacturers make both integrated amps and receivers. The only difference is the presence of the tuner in the receiver. So, Yamaha, Rotel, and Arcam's receivers "suck donkey balls" and the integrated amp versions (with otherwise identical transformers, preamp electronics, and controls) would not. Nice bit of nonsensical generalizing.

If you want to suggest that someone add a $2,000+ amp to a $500 receiver, fine. I'll go along with it making an audible improvement, but you still cannot generalize that these improvements will have the same effect from room to room because a bad room will result in bad sound regardless of what's playing.

A Bryston amp making a pair of speakers "unlistenable"? Well, whatever your want to believe for yourself.

[46minaudio]

it's because receivers suck donkey balls..

I reckon everyone that owns a receiver should now chuck it because YOU (RGA god of all audio) say it sucks DONKEY BALLS..Maybe you ought to do a poll to see if all these receiver owners think there unit sucks DONKEY BALLS.I Myself dont think receivers suck DONKEY BALLS.I however think you do though...

[shokhead]

And I'm sure that YOU'RE [sic] favorite sound is on YOU'RE system too.

Until you actually hear the B&Ws on a Kenwood, you have no idea if they would sound like "crap." Typically, the characteristics of the speakers are by far the biggest variable, then comes the room acoustics, then further down on the list is the amplification. Most of the differences I've heard, except with difficult to drive speakers, are subtle when the amplification gets switched out. The acoustical variations between demo rooms can be more than enough to negate any differences that you might detect in the amplification, so it's actually more important to make sure the listening comparisons take place in the same room than it is to make sure that the system components are comparable.

I said they might and i was just throwing kenwood out as an example,could have used emerson. Hard to judge on demo room setups. There is a high end place by me that has 3 or 4 rooms set up like a living room,its nice.

[kexodusc]

Here's another option, do what I just did...

Buy the Studio 20's for $800, then buy the EFE AR.com DIY kit by Ed Frias from Madisound or Speaker city for $300 (pre-built, cheaper if you DIY) and compare them in your room.

The Studio's look a bit better than my humble woodworking skills, butmy DIY's have a much nicer, real veneer.
Sound wise it isn't even close. I've already sold a pair of 20's, when I've got the other 4 built, the othe pair of Studio 20's and 40's are going too.

I don't care if they the Studio 20 v.3's, B&W 700's or 600's sound a wee bitbetter than the Studio 20 v.2's at this point, the EFE DIY's destroy my Studio 40's v2's, especially in the midrange, and are dirt cheap!!!

Once I figure out my new digital camera and build the next pair, I'll snap some pics and post a more thorough review of the head-to-head...

Geez, I can build a whole 7 speaker HT system for what I paid for my Studio 40's...I feel hosed now.