Paradigm Studio 20 vs B&W 602 S3

[Yeti2003]

I've heard both of these speakers at two separate local dealers and I liked the sound from both of them. I'm going to see if I can audition both sets in home but I'd also like some thoughts from people out there that have either set of speakers.

1. The studios are ~800 retal and the 602s are ~600. I know price doesn't necessarily mean better quality but why are the studios 200 more?

2. Can anyone recommend a stand for either of these speakers? The girlfriend really likes the Bello stands we saw at a dealer.

I can get them online for a lot cheaper here:
http://www.racksandstands.com/cats/A...tands/0C97.htm

3. I watch movies 80% of the time so the center channel is going to be important. Which brand has a better matching center?

Thanks for any input. Hopefully I'll be able to audition them in house soon.

[zonik]

I've looked at these. Both nice sounding. For $800 ish I would audition the Klipsch RB75s. At $600 the B&W are cheaper mainly because B&W does more volume (units) than Paradigm. Paradigm fans will have other reasons. Both of these speakers are not outsourced to asian fab houses. Many folks would contend that you'd need a sub for either pair HOWEVER the B&W have a larger internal volume and it is likely, a more satifying bass note. You might look at the Klipsch, very nice detailed sound. Made in Arkansas still. I was contemplating all of these but went for something else. I am importing these from Germany.
Canton
I think the B&W will be best for you.

[brulaha]

IMHO, the B&W 600 line matches up with the Paradigm Monitor line. The B&W 700 series competes with the Studio series. And the Nautilus series competes with the signature series. Taking this into account I've always viewed Paradigm as a more of a budget option. Their prices seem to be rising, which reduces some of their value, but I think they are still considerably priced under B&W, which has always tended to be fairly expensive. Additionally, the two speaker companies have distinctly different sounds. Make sure to do in an in home audition. I would try some other brands as well.

[RGA]

I agree with Bruhaha mostly except that I always felt the 600 series competed very well with the Studio series for sound quality but not for build quality - the Studio's build quality mtes well with the CDM and 700 series.

I would personally take the 602S3 for sound over the Studio 20V2 (have not heard the V3 but the 100V3 dissapointed me greatly). SOmetimes the 602S3 can sound a bit dry and polite and I get the sense the whole series needs careful positioning.

I can safely say I like the 602S3 more than the 705. I would not buy based off of price.

If you can get your hands on a used CDM 2SE you might be quite pleased - that was one of the better standmount speakers B&W made IMO.

Also try and listen to other companies who have different design approaches - You'd be surprised that many lesser known speakers can IMO easily outperfom these guys for less money.

[bacchanal]

I have Studio40V2s, and I've done a lot of listening to both Paradigm and B&W. I'm more of a music person, so I'm not really used to thinking about sound from a HT perspective. In terms of low end extension I don't think there is a big difference between the Sudio20 and the 602. The really noticable difference between these two is that the Studio series tends to be a bit more "lively", while the 600 series is, as RGA put it, a little "polite". To me, I would think that the Studio20s would suit HT a little better, but that's just me. The B&W 600 line has a nice smooth sound. I once heard a system with 4 602S3s (main and surround) and the LCR60 center, that I thought sounded pretty sweet.

[requiem]

I've looked at these. Both nice sounding. For $800 ish I would audition the Klipsch RB75s. At $600 the B&W are cheaper mainly because B&W does more volume (units) than Paradigm. Paradigm fans will have other reasons. Both of these speakers are not outsourced to asian fab houses. Many folks would contend that you'd need a sub for either pair HOWEVER the B&W have a larger internal volume and it is likely, a more satifying bass note. You might look at the Klipsch, very nice detailed sound. Made in Arkansas still. I was contemplating all of these but went for something else. I am importing these from Germany.
Canton
I think the B&W will be best for you.

Could anyone describe how's the sound of the Cantons compared to the B&W 602?

[Woochifer]

Definitely try them out for yourself at home. The Studio 20 v.3 is one of the best speakers in its price class that I've heard, and has particular strengths in how it images and projects a big soundstage. Very impressive overall speaker.

When I was auditioning speakers a few years, the previous versions of these speakers were among my finalists. The 600 series overall had a more balanced sound, but it was also less involving with home theater sources, which is why I opted for the Studios.

These S3s are voiced somewhat differently than the previous versions that I heard, so that might have changed. However, the 20 v.3 versions are now better balanced than before, but still retain the involving character that I appreciated with the v.2 series (which I own) while adding a noticeable improvement in the imaging and ability to "disappear", which were already strengths to begin with. Like I said, try it for yourself. When I auditioned the two series for myself, the choice was pretty obvious for my preferences.

As far as the center channels go, definitely take a careful listen and make sure that the levels are matched as closely as possible. And if you plan to add surround speakers, take a good listen to those as well, because the quality of the ancillary speakers can vary a lot from manufacturer to manufacturer. The new Studio v.3 center speakers are a good timbre match for the mains and use identical drivers to the rest of the Studio series. In general, Paradigm has done a good job making center and surround speakers that are up to the quality of their mains, and can voice match them. The surround speakers in particular give you a good option between the dipolar surrounds or going with another set of direct firing bookshelf speakers.

B&W has had some missteps with their ancillary speakers, so I would watch out for which center and surround models you opt for. With the previous 600 series, their lower priced center speaker model was a less than adequate match for the mains, and the dipolar surround speakers were even worse. If you prefer dipolar surrounds, I'm not altogether sure that B&W's current surrounds improved upon the previous versions by much. If you go with B&W, you're probably better off going with another set of direct firing bookshelf speakers.

[Yeti2003]

Thanks for the all the input. Hopefully the local dealers will allow a home audition and the choice will be easier. Speaking of audio dealers, I've heard you should never pay retail at an audio store. How does one go about asking for a discount?

Also can anyone recommend speaker stands for either the B&W or Studio speakers? Should I just go with whatever the dealer uses assuming it sounds good?

[jasmit]

When I was auditioning main speakers, the B&W 602 S3's, the Focal-JM Labs Chorus 707S and the Paradigm Reference Studio 20 v.3's ended up being on my short list among those speakers that I could afford. I agree with brulaha that Paradigm's Studio series matches more closely with B&W's 700 series. In fact, I really liked the B&W 705's; they were the best looking and best sounding speakers I auditioned. But, alas, they were way out of my price range. So, among those three that made my short list, I opted for the 20's. To my ears, they are truly amazing speakers for their price point. They are designed and made in-house by Paradigm and seem to be solidly built. BTW, they are designed to be used with the grills on.

I agree with all of the previous comments though about auditioning them, preferably in your home. It's what sounds best to you that's paramount.

Can't help you with the stands; my 20's rest on bookshelves.

[RGA]

For a deal just ask what the best price you can give me them for. You can of course draw it out by leaving your number - they may call you back after they have talked it over with the owner - ie just like car dealers - and they;ll usually come down - it does depend a bit on what you're buying. B&W and Paradigm should come down 15-20% maybe more.

[nick250]

Thanks for the all the input. Hopefully the local dealers will allow a home audition and the choice will be easier. Speaking of audio dealers, I've heard you should never pay retail at an audio store. How does one go about asking for a discount?

Also can anyone recommend speaker stands for either the B&W or Studio speakers? Should I just go with whatever the dealer uses assuming it sounds good?

I purchased Studio 20s about four years ago and got the matching black Paradigm stands that I believe were around $100 at the time. The only reason that I can think of for not getting the Paradigm stands would be cosmetic IMHO. Also instead of buying the matching Paradigm center I got a third Studio 20 to use as my center. I use Paradigm Mini Monitors for my back speakers. I am very happy with the system which is used 50/50 music/movies.

Nick

[shokhead]

Everybody has fav's that sound right on THERE system. Thats why its important for you to hear them on the same or as close of a system as you are using. Make sure you bring along your music/movie to here. My B&W's sound great on my Denon as they might sould like crap on a Kenwood.

[Woochifer]

Everybody has fav's that sound right on THERE system. Thats why its important for you to hear them on the same or as close of a system as you are using. Make sure you bring along your music/movie to here. My B&W's sound great on my Denon as they might sould like crap on a Kenwood.

And I'm sure that YOU'RE [sic] favorite sound is on YOU'RE system too.

Until you actually hear the B&Ws on a Kenwood, you have no idea if they would sound like "crap." Typically, the characteristics of the speakers are by far the biggest variable, then comes the room acoustics, then further down on the list is the amplification. Most of the differences I've heard, except with difficult to drive speakers, are subtle when the amplification gets switched out. The acoustical variations between demo rooms can be more than enough to negate any differences that you might detect in the amplification, so it's actually more important to make sure the listening comparisons take place in the same room than it is to make sure that the system components are comparable.

[fahertyps]

I've heard both of these speakers at two separate local dealers and I liked the sound from both of them. I'm going to see if I can audition both sets in home but I'd also like some thoughts from people out there that have either set of speakers.

1. The studios are ~800 retal and the 602s are ~600. I know price doesn't necessarily mean better quality but why are the studios 200 more?

2. Can anyone recommend a stand for either of these speakers? The girlfriend really likes the Bello stands we saw at a dealer.

I can get them online for a lot cheaper here:
http://www.racksandstands.com/cats/A...tands/0C97.htm

3. I watch movies 80% of the time so the center channel is going to be important. Which brand has a better matching center?

Thanks for any input. Hopefully I'll be able to audition them in house soon.

I was looking at Paradigm also, I own a Paradigm HT system and really like it. Several folks on this Forum suggested looking at Monitor Audio (MA) Bronze 2. After much research, I went with them and have not regretted the decision one bit. Besides saving several hundred on the price, I love the sound. I also needed a front-ported speaker because of location. I ended up buying them from Saturday Auido (Chicago area) via the phone.

Happy hunting,
SF

[shokhead]

4 -602's with a center to match and a good sub wouldnt be half bad.603's up front would be better.

[sixty9@gmail.com]

Hi,

I'm new to the forum, but i thought i'd jump in and discuss the original topic. Last night i had a chance to compare studio 20's and 602 s3 directly with each other.

I brought my system (Cambridge Audio C500, P500, and B&W 602 s3) over to my friends home to compare my equipment with his (Krell 300i, NHT ?? full size speakers). Of course it was no comparison, his blew mine right out of the water, but he has studio 20's for his ht, so we compared the studio 20's with my 602's. I think the studio 20's were s2.

Before i get into this, to let you know, we took turns placing the speakers on the speaker stands, and positioned the speakers for their optimal sound. It seemed the studio 20's perferred toe in (to make it more bright) while the 602's did better parallel.

First we hooked up the studio 20's to my cambridge audio system, it was slow, boxy, very lifeless. After switching the studio 20's to the krell, it was a night and day difference... a lot more dynamic and smoother. When we switched my 602's from the cambridge audio's to the krell, there was a definite improvement, but not as big a difference as with the studio 20's. Studio 20's definitely need a bright amp to power them, while the 602's in this limited experiment seem more forgiving.

In my personal opinion, the studio 20's have a warm sound, but seems to have a narrow range, and even on the krell, still sounded boxy, i think this is due to it's unnaturally inflated bass. When listening to the NHT's, it felt like i was listening to a live performance, when listening to the 602's, it felt like i was listening to a wall of sound, but with the studio 20's, i was very aware that the music was emanating from 2 points in front of me.

The 602's are very bright compared to the studio 20's, but have a wider dynamic range, definitely more detail, and a more natural defined bass. Another thing i'd like to point out is that the 602's are very effecient, sounded bigger than they are (definitely not boxy at all), and easily filled the large room we were in with music.

My friend liked the warmth of the studio 20's, but admitted the studio 20's did sound more boxy and had a unnaturally inflated bass.

Before this experiment, i was curious to how my 602's stacked up against the studio 20's. I can tell you that i have no regrets getting the 602's.. i find the studio 20's inflated bass and boxy sound unforgivable.

[kexodusc]

My friend liked the warmth of the studio 20's, but admitted the studio 20's did sound more boxy and had a unnaturally inflated bass.

Before this experiment, i was curious to how my 602's stacked up against the studio 20's. I can tell you that i have no regrets getting the 602's.. i find the studio 20's inflated bass and boxy sound unforgivable.

You and your friend are the first people I've met that could listen to the 20's compared to the 602's and call them "warm". Mine sizzle.

[RGA]

I'm a bit surprised by the listening as well - the 602 is usually described as being a bit polite while the 20 to me is pretty hard - the whole series was but given the competition the V2 was a good series. I prefer the sound of the 600 series against the Studios but I certainly understand why people prefer the V2 series paradigms. Incidentally I like the 600 series much more than 700 series which I feel is pretyt pathetic all across the board.

Quite simply the 600 series is less refined but it's more engaging to listen to. Dynamically BAD speakers may have the smoothest tweeters, best imaging impecable soundstage - but none of that is worth beans if the lifeblood of the music is shot before you even start. Some people might call it PRAT. A kind of misnomer term - but it's a guit reaction when listening - the 600 series knows the business better than many others in its price despite a few issues - others have less issues but seem to me to get it wrong.

The DM 302 for example was quite entertaining and involving which is why I bought em - still regret trading them.

[Yeti2003]

Thanks for all the input! I tried out both speakers at home with the same equipment and I found that I liked the Studios better (just my personal preference). It's hard for me to describe sound but I thought they were more "detailed". Anyway, now I'm in a bind because the speakers are sitting on my old towers which is probably less than optimal.

The speakers are 15 inches tall and I was told I should get a 29-30 inch stand for them. The Sanus stands seem to be all over the place. I was looking at the Sanus SF30 (30 inches) which is about $150 but I was wondering if there's other "stand" brands I should be looking at. Personally I don't want to spend $300 for the matching J-Premier stands from Paradigm.

Suggestions?