New State of the Art BG Planar Speakers- Coming Soon

Hi All

I just wanted everyone to know that the new BG Radia FS 880 Planar dipole speakers will be arriving soon.

Mt 2 friends who are engineers and speaker builders helped build the prototypes which were the BG Radia LA 800's (in wall design) which were modified as dipoles. (see prototype photo)

I sold them to make way for the new FS 880 model which looks different than the 800 protos. But does still have a total of 12 Neo 10's mids, 32 Neo 3 tweeters but differs vfrom the protos in that they have 4 woofers per side with the included 1200 watt amps.

Please check out Dr. Sakakini's You Tube video key words:

BG Radia Dipole 800/FS880 prototypes

I don't care much for the look of the speakers but I like the Pass gear you have there.

The photo I posted is not the new FS 880
They r the prototypes
If u visit BG 's website click on floorstanders u can view the 420's and the 880's they are gorgeous
Please try to read up on these remarkable drivers neo10 and neo 3
No distortion and unlike magnepan they do not share the same mylar which causes smearing of frequencies

Quick question are you advertising and promoting these speakers? Are you affiliated with BG?

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Originally Posted by Searay328

The photo I posted is not the new FS 880
They r the prototypes
If u visit BG 's website click on floorstanders u can view the 420's and the 880's they are gorgeous
Please try to read up on these remarkable drivers neo10 and neo 3
No distortion and unlike magnepan they do not share the same mylar which causes smearing of frequencies

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So I had a look at the FS 880's, (see pic). I guess they come pretty close to line source given the height and number of drivers. OTOH they seem too narrow to properly reinforce the mid-range (at least the lower portion), in which case you'd get less output and maybe even some cancellation due to the dipole design. Also they aren't cheap but then that may be said of a lot of speakers.

Various BG Radias models have been around for a while but haven't exactly attracted rave reviews -- meanwhile Magneplanars continued to get excellent, not to say adulatory, reviews; (mylar "smear" isn't such a big deal apparently).

http://www.bgcorp.com/bgadmin/wp-con.../09/fs-880.jpg

Not to be too negative about Bohlender Graebener, their RD75 Planar Transducers look very interesting for DIY. See HERE. But I note that if you want to used them down to 400 Hz you ought to have a panel of 17" width for full reinforcement and no dipole cancellation.

Why no frequency response specs?

You really need to hear them
Before passing judgment
I have owned maggies and they are a toy compared to these new speakers
The new models start at 5995 for the 420's
Please watch the you tube video of Dr sakakini
He owned .maggjes for years

Also I forgot to nnention that I do not get any dipole cancellation by having the
Speakers out at least 6 ft from the wall
Bg line array has less distortion does not share the same mylar'diaphram for all competing frequencies and as a result sound cleaner and more transparent due to the fact tgat there is no overlap of frequencues on the sane diaphragm

Also the FS 880 can be ordered for either passive or active the 20.7 does not

Yes but why are the specs not listed? And I have never heard a Maggie smeared or distorted. That's a load of crap! While I own Maggies, they are not the end all in speakers but saying that they are smeared is BS.

Speakers that have to be placed 6 feet from the rear wall will be difficult to accommodate for most people.

This discussion can continue without Searay328. He has not responded to my questions here and will not accept PM. I think he is promoting BG.

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Originally Posted by JohnMichael

This discussion can continue without Searay328. He has not responded to my questions here and will not accept PM. I think he is promoting BG.

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Indeed -- whether or not he's on the BG payroll.

He doesn't seem well informed on speaker characteristics, neither for the BG Radia nor for the Magneplanar. E.g. (a) he believes there is no frequency overlap between drivers in the case of the Radia (which there must be to some extent), and (b) he doesn't understand dipole cancellation. The latter occurs when the 1/2 wave length of the frequency is longer than the speaker baffle (or planar element) is wide -- under those conditions the front and rear sound waves reach around the speaker and partially cancel each other.

I felt he was promoting for the company, that's why I got a little aggressive with my replies.

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Originally Posted by blackraven

I felt he was promoting for the company, that's why I got a little aggressive with my replies.

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I do not think he was honest about why he was here. He did not fill out a profile and his only posts were about BG. Other manufactures pay to advertise and I think BG could afford an add or two. He may have just been a rabid fan boy of BG. On the other hand how much of a member do you want to be if you do not fill out even the basics of the profile.

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Originally Posted by blackraven

Yes but why are the specs not listed? And I have never heard a Maggie smeared or distorted. That's a load of crap! While I own Maggies, they are not the end all in speakers but saying that they are smeared is BS.

Speakers that have to be placed 6 feet from the rear wall will be difficult to accommodate for most people.

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Errr . . . Feanor has Magnepan 1.6QR speakers.

Inmate Systems - Audio Asylum

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Originally Posted by Pat D

Errr . . . Feanor has Magnepan 1.6QR speakers.

Inmate Systems - Audio Asylum

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What's your point? Both Feanor and I have the 1.6's. I was not complaining about the 1.6's. I was commenting about the BG speakers needing to be placed 6 feet from the wall. I love my 1.6's but there are better speaker but not at that their price point.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by blackraven

What's your point? Both Feanor and I have the 1.6's. I was not complaining about the 1.6's. I was commenting about the BG speakers needing to be placed 6 feet from the wall. I love my 1.6's but there are better speaker but not at that their price point.

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Sorry! I had not clued to the fact that mylar smearing was Searay's idea and that Feanor's comment was ironic.

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Originally Posted by Pat D

Sorry! I had not clued to the fact that mylar smearing was Searay's idea and that Feanor's comment was ironic.

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I figured there was a misunderstanding there.

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Originally Posted by Feanor

So I had a look at the FS 880's, (see pic). I guess they come pretty close to line source given the height and number of drivers. OTOH they seem too narrow to properly reinforce the mid-range (at least the lower portion), in which case you'd get less output and maybe even some cancellation due to the dipole design. Also they aren't cheap but then that may be said of a lot of speakers.

Various BG Radias models have been around for a while but haven't exactly attracted rave reviews -- meanwhile Magneplanars continued to get excellent, not to say adulatory, reviews; (mylar "smear" isn't such a big deal apparently).

http://www.bgcorp.com/bgadmin/wp-con.../09/fs-880.jpg

Not to be too negative about Bohlender Graebener, their RD75 Planar Transducers look very interesting for DIY. See HERE. But I note that if you want to used them down to 400 Hz you ought to have a panel of 17" width for full reinforcement and no dipole cancellation.

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I STILL like the speaker in the middle.......

That girl standing on it will surely scratch it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Feanor

So I had a look at the FS 880's, (see pic). I guess they come pretty close to line source given the height and number of drivers. OTOH they seem too narrow to properly reinforce the mid-range (at least the lower portion), in which case you'd get less output and maybe even some cancellation due to the dipole design. Also they aren't cheap but then that may be said of a lot of speakers.

Various BG Radias models have been around for a while but haven't exactly attracted rave reviews -- meanwhile Magneplanars continued to get excellent, not to say adulatory, reviews; (mylar "smear" isn't such a big deal apparently).

http://www.bgcorp.com/bgadmin/wp-con.../09/fs-880.jpg

Not to be too negative about Bohlender Graebener, their RD75 Planar Transducers look very interesting for DIY. See HERE. But I note that if you want to used them down to 400 Hz you ought to have a panel of 17" width for full reinforcement and no dipole cancellation.

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Hi, I just joined, so I haven't yet filled out the rest of my profile as I wanted to respond to this thread.

I'm in the process of buying the 880s. I'd like to correct something that being stated about cancellation. BG understands this issue. They have an upgrade for side panels that fit at the outside edges of the panels, but project 90 degrees backwards. Or, you can buy 60"x14" .5" acrylic and mount them yourselves. I just finished adjusting the bass for a friend who is also a dealer. He's got the two sets of the large in wall panels as well, and had problems getting the bass correct. We fixed that.

I bought gasketing for him to mount those acrylic panels with. I'm going to do the same thing for mine. I measured the response from 80 Hz to 20K with my iPad using AudioTools and pink noise. It was very smooth, even with 24th octave and no smoothing.

I was intending to buy Soundlab Millennium 1s, but this changed my mind. I'm going to use my old Carver Amazing Platinums for the bass though.

I am NOT a dealer. But I used to be a partner in a professional audio design and manufacturing company back in the day called Magnum Opus, later changed to Peacetime Communications. We sold to JBL the end of 1982. As I said, some time ago.

The built in woofers go to just below 30Hz, but don't seem to have much output above 80db there. That's not enough for me, as I listen to organ music as well. The Platinums go down to 16 without a problem, with some help from a Behringer. At that freq. they can hit 100 there. Yes, it is amazing.

These speakers use what they're calling their Select drivers. They've got a guy measuring them. As they're made in China, QC isn't what they would like. The ones that don't meet the specs are used for their in wall systems.

I know it seems strange that the extra panels would be add ons, but they describe their speakers as "lifestyle products", and insist that many of their customers don't want the look of the extra panel, which is why it's an option. The panels work quite well, adding another 4to 6 db from the crossover at 130 Hz to about 200 Hz when compared to no panel, which does have, as has been mentioned, a suck out at those frequencies.

If anyone is still interested, after all this time, I'll report back after they are here, in about three weeks, as each model is custom made, and mine has special wiring, as well as a custom powder paint that I sent them (Jollipop Red Metallic).

Ok, the profile is filled out, though I can't seem to add my photo.

Hi, melgross, and welcome to AR Forums.

B&G at least realized the problem even if the solution is optional.

Bohlender Graebener drivers can be bought by DIYs from, e.g. Parts Express. An interesting B&G DIY project website is Projects update and iformation page. An interesting design article is ALSR - The RD75 Dipole Baffle Study - Table of Contents.

Suck-out due to front<>back cancellation should, in concept, begin much higher than 200 Hz. Presumably a "baffle shelf compensation" approach could be used to compensate for suck-out but at the price of efficiency. I'd still say the a wider baffle is the preferred method, e.g. this rather handsome one that uses transparent acrylic for the side extensions ...

Attachment 9627

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Originally Posted by Feanor

Hi, melgross, and welcome to AR Forums.

B&G at least realized the problem even if the solution is optional.

Bohlender Graebener drivers can be bought by DIYs from, e.g. Parts Express. An interesting B&G DIY project website is Projects update and iformation page. An interesting design article is ALSR - The RD75 Dipole Baffle Study - Table of Contents.

Suck-out due to front<>back cancellation should, in concept, begin much higher than 200 Hz. Presumably a "baffle shelf compensation" approach could be used to compensate for suck-out but at the price of efficiency. I'd still say the a wider baffle is the preferred method, e.g. this rather handsome one that uses transparent acrylic for the side extensions ...

Attachment 9627

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The way dipoles work is that the average width of the panel needs to be the quarter wavelength of the lowest frequency needed. That will give a flat panel response to that frequency. Driver rolloff in free air is another factor. 200Hz has a quarter wavelength of 1.4 ft, and 133, where its crossed over, has one of 2.1 ft.

So at 200Hz we're perfectly fine. Well within the tolerances. at 133Hz, we just make it, as the 11" front, plus the 14" side panel is just about 2.1 ft. I know it seems odd to have the panel at a 90 degree angle from the front, but it works well. Without it, there is a big suckout.

My Platinums are a bit wider than that on average, but go all the way down in the bass. Of course, Carver compensated with very high Q drivers.

In theory, there should be a slight angle for the side panel. That is, it should be slightly narrower at the top, and about 3" wider at the bottom. Without that, there should be noticeable bumps in the frequency response below the frequency of the quarter wavelength. but at these high frequencies the bumping is to small to bother with.

it's odd that only Apogee and Carver took this into account. Every other dipole I've measured has had this in spades at the low frequencies.

I don't like their regular drivers. Frankly, I don't think they're very good. The QC isn't what I think is wonderful. You never know why you're going to get, like Tatung - great designs, but variable. I've resisted getting anything from them because of that. But these selected drivers are much better, and match level and frequency response pretty well. I've spoken to them about this.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by melgross

The way dipoles work is that the average width of the panel needs to be the quarter wavelength of the lowest frequency needed. That will give a flat panel response to that frequency. Driver rolloff in free air is another factor. 200Hz has a quarter wavelength of 1.4 ft, and 133, where its crossed over, has one of 2.1 ft.

So at 200Hz we're perfectly fine. Well within the tolerances. at 133Hz, we just make it, as the 11" front, plus the 14" side panel is just about 2.1 ft. I know it seems odd to have the panel at a 90 degree angle from the front, but it works well. Without it, there is a big suckout.

My Platinums are a bit wider than that on average, but go all the way down in the bass. Of course, Carver compensated with very high Q drivers.

In theory, there should be a slight angle for the side panel. That is, it should be slightly narrower at the top, and about 3" wider at the bottom. Without that, there should be noticeable bumps in the frequency response below the frequency of the quarter wavelength. but at these high frequencies the bumping is to small to bother with.

it's odd that only Apogee and Carver took this into account. Every other dipole I've measured has had this in spades at the low frequencies.
...

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Humm ... OK. I thought it was 1/2 wavelength rather than 1/4. Or maybe the 1/2 applies to monopoles in cabinets.

Is it really feasible to run the even the longest RD75 as low as 133 Hz? I seem to recall when a read the B&G DIY forums a few years ago the recommended crossover ought to be 400+ Hz.

Most of the DIY experimenters at the websites I linked have concluded that a tapered baffle is best, as you suggest. E.g. ...

http://home.comcast.net/~thomasw_2/McNutt1.jpg

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Originally Posted by Feanor

Humm ... OK. I thought it was 1/2 wavelength rather than 1/4. Or maybe the 1/2 applies to monopoles in cabinets.

Is it really feasible to run the even the longest RD75 as low as 133 Hz? I seem to recall when a read the B&G DIY forums a few years ago the recommended crossover ought to be 400+ Hz.

Most of the DIY experimenters at the websites I linked have concluded that a tapered baffle is best, as you suggest. E.g. ...

http://home.comcast.net/~thomasw_2/McNutt1.jpg

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133 is their crossover point. I would prefer going to 80, but not with these. It was one reason i was thinking about the Soundlabs.

Without the proper amount of taper, you get combing, which can give bumps of plus minus 3 db. It's a problem the Maggies, and other dipole speakers, have in the upper though the low bass..

I finally received a delivery date of next Tuesday for these. Apparently the custom wiring and painting took a few extra days, and the driver testing took longer than expected. Oh well, at least they will get here. BG Radia posted a picture of them on their Facebook page. I'll see if I can get that pic and post it here.

https://www.facebook.com/93453844450...type=3&theater

That might be the best for now.