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  1. #1
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    KEF 104.2: still great after all these years!

    Kef 104.2 preliminary review



    Description: D’appolito design mid/tweet/mid (MTM) with twin 8” woofers in a coupled chamber. 4th order advanced crossover.

    Frequency response: 55hz-22khz +/- 2db. In room: about 30hz-22khz.

    Efficiency: 92 db 1w/1 meter

    Impedence: 4 ohms

    Built from 1980’s… about 1987

    Dimensions: 35.5” x 11 x 16.4 in 70.5 lbs each.

    Original price 1986: about $2700 USD, extra for exotic finishes

    Technology comments. This speaker is a timeless classic of accurate detail, dynamics and musical ability. The reason behind this is that KEF poured tons of money and engineering into it’s products from the 70’s and 80’s. The 103.x,104.x,105.x and 107.x were factory matched within 1db accuracy of factory reference. The box is miter type, excellently braced and very solid. The designers last product for KEF was the 105/4. After that product, KEF went on a downhill spiral. Even the new reference series are not as well engineered as the 10X.X era was. If these speakers were engineered and built like this now, you’d not be able to touch them for under $8k- $12k.

    Tweeter: they are accurate and flat up to 22khz, matched within 0.5 db of each other. Model: T33 1" Impregnated fabric dome

    Midranges: in MTM configuration they blend perfectly. Very holographic and detailed. The tweeter and mids are mounted on the front of the speaker in their own separate enclosure. Totally isolated from the woofer. 2 x 5" doped bextrene

    Woofers: They are chamber loaded (meaning they are not ported, rather two push-pull drivers firing into a chamber that is open to the front. No coloration or noise is induced. The two woofers are coupled via force restoring rod. The bass is fast, tight, and very deep. 2 x 8" paper

    Crossover: 4th order, built with tight tolerance components mounted on damped legs. This crossover is very complex, and includes baffle step, time and phase adjustments. May work with the Kef Universal Bass Equalizer (KUBE) to optimize bass below 100hz. Not required, but does enhance performance.

    I found these in superior, ultra clean condition. I am the 2nd owner, and they are in a Rosewood finish. I paid $950.

    Are these speakers perfect? Don’t ask that, no speaker is. Do these speakers deliver a huge, holographic, fast, rock-solid image with excellent impact, dynamics and low coloration? YES.

    These speakers have been around, and are sought after and well loved. They do not take a back seat to any comparable sized speaker made now. They are on equal footing, if not less colored and more detailed than the Mighty Proac response 2.5.

    What you can expect is a linear sounding speaker with great punch low enough that for 90% of music a sub isn’t necessary. These speakers like a good amount of solid state current. These speakers are revealing of very fine nuances, but are never sterile or analytical. They carry a tune with articulation and grace.

    I know that Kef’s earlier work in the 70’s could be considered very colored, and polite. These are not like that at all. These could easily be used to master recordings, but they are not dry and lifeless like some monitor speakers can be.

    I can without reservation say that these were made in Kef’s real heyday. They were privately and critically acclaimed, along with the 103.2,3,4 105.2,3,4 and 107. They are deserving of lofty praise indeed. With a competent front end, these will not sound was “romantic” or “slow” or “colored” as Kef has been accused of being. I would attribute those characterizations to the electronics and source of the day.

    These speakers belong in an audio hall of fame, they are among the very best speakers made. They have no glaring faults, and the better the front end, the better they sound. Anyone looking for a great investment for around $1k, get a set of 104/2’s. long term owners will gladly corroborate how excellent these speakers were, and still are.
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    Last edited by Sealed; 03-14-2004 at 04:03 AM.

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sealed
    [U][B]
    These speakers belong in an audio hall of fame, they are among the very best speakers made. They have no glaring faults, and the better the front end, the better they sound. Anyone looking for a great investment for around $1k, get a set of 104/2’s. long term owners will gladly corroborate how excellent these speakers were, and still are.
    Hello,
    I also own some KEF 104/2. Bought those last year for 500 USD. They have a terrific soundstage and they are preety revealing of the rest of the system. Bad records are something to avoid !
    Only fault is the medium 1KHz - 2.5KHz: this region is laid back; But they are terrific for the price I paid.


    Olivier

  3. #3
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    laid back

    Quote Originally Posted by oplancq
    Hello,
    I also own some KEF 104/2. Bought those last year for 500 USD. They have a terrific soundstage and they are preety revealing of the rest of the system. Bad records are something to avoid !
    Only fault is the medium 1KHz - 2.5KHz: this region is laid back; But they are terrific for the price I paid.


    Olivier
    Mine are of 1985-85 vintage and I am experiancing no such problem. It could be your choice of electronics or cabling.

    My friend has some 103/3's and those are very similar: smooth, flat and even.

    KEF measurments (KEF and independant) measure the 104/2 absolutely ruler flat from 55hz to 22khz, +/- 2 db. Nothing is recessed at all.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sealed
    Mine are of 1985-85 vintage and I am experiancing no such problem. It could be your choice of electronics or cabling.

    My friend has some 103/3's and those are very similar: smooth, flat and even.

    KEF measurments (KEF and independant) measure the 104/2 absolutely ruler flat from 55hz to 22khz, +/- 2 db. Nothing is recessed at all.
    I have tried several electronics, cables..always same result. In room measurement shows this region is slightly laid back. Mine are 1989 vintage.
    Others 104/2 are showing same behaviour.

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    By the way if you have documentation on those speakers I'd be quiet interested...

  6. #6
    Forum Regular Sealed's Avatar
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    Kef

    Quote Originally Posted by oplancq
    By the way if you have documentation on those speakers I'd be quiet interested...
    Suddenly you have many pairs of 104/2's in which you have measured the same thing? I find that dubious at best. Just suddenly you have access to many of them in a group test?

    The kef literature is exact.

    The 104.2 like to be *precisely* 50cm from back walls. Deviations of more than 1/4" are too much. They also must be 1 meter from side walls.

    The speaker cables must not be more than .2ohms...period.

    I have reason to believe that the 104/2 you have (1989) are NOT the same as the 1984-1987 version at all. Different drivers (like uni-q) and a different designer. The designer responsible for the whole batch was no longer at KEF after 1987.

    It is entirely possible that your year 104/2 is totally different from mine.

    It is a 100% certianty that mine do not exhibit any deviations in playback spectrum as you have stated.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sealed
    Suddenly you have many pairs of 104/2's in which you have measured the same thing? I find that dubious at best. Just suddenly you have access to many of them in a group test?

    The kef literature is exact.

    The 104.2 like to be *precisely* 50cm from back walls. Deviations of more than 1/4" are too much. They also must be 1 meter from side walls.

    The speaker cables must not be more than .2ohms...period.

    I have reason to believe that the 104/2 you have (1989) are NOT the same as the 1984-1987 version at all. Different drivers (like uni-q) and a different designer. The designer responsible for the whole batch was no longer at KEF after 1987.

    It is entirely possible that your year 104/2 is totally different from mine.

    It is a 100% certianty that mine do not exhibit any deviations in playback spectrum as you have stated.
    Who said I had several pairs of 104/2 ??? I did not...But I know several people who heard different 104/2 in different rooms, and most agreed that high medium was slightly laid back...
    Don't get me wrong...I love my KEFs but I'm realistic: they are not perfect.
    Mine are from 1989 and are true 104/2 same design: T33/B110/B200 (SP3037). No Uni Q driver..But you migh be right that crossovers from 1984 are different.
    Funny, just measured the distance from the back wall: 52 cms !


    Olivier.

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    committee

    Quote Originally Posted by oplancq
    Who said I had several pairs of 104/2 ??? I did not...But I know several people who heard different 104/2 in different rooms, and most agreed that high medium was slightly laid back...
    Don't get me wrong...I love my KEFs but I'm realistic: they are not perfect.
    Mine are from 1989 and are true 104/2 same design: T33/B110/B200 (SP3037). No Uni Q driver..But you migh be right that crossovers from 1984 are different.
    Funny, just measured the distance from the back wall: 52 cms !


    Olivier.

    It's always funny how people suddenly have a committee consensus when they post something dubious. IE: "I just surveyed six dozen of my local KEF 104/2 owners group and..." not to mention the error I made by providing some setup information beforehand. That taints the thread. Now you can just repeat my setup instructions and claim you have a $100,000 front end and the proper setup with Techtronix and HP sound meters confirming some kind of recessed frequency band. I will not do that again...
    Note to self: ask first... compare second.

    There are only four explanations for your findings.

    1. The Kef you own are different internally than the 84-1987 run

    2. Room placement is off- they are too close to something

    3. The cables and electronics you have are wrong/inadequate. What are they btw? source, amp, preamp, cables?

    4. You have a set that was defective.

    The pair I have (which is indicative of the 84-87 line) is ruler flat, and not recessed at all. What you are experiancing is not the way these KEF sound...at all.
    Last edited by Sealed; 04-09-2004 at 03:11 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sealed
    It's always funny how people suddenly have a committee consensus when they post something dubious. IE: "I just surveyed six dozen of my local KEF 104/2 owners group and..." not to mention the error I made by providing some setup information beforehand. That taints the thread. Now you can just repeat my setup instructions and claim you have a $100,000 front end and the proper setup with Techtronix and HP sound meters confirming some kind of recessed frequency band. I will not do that again...
    Note to self: ask first... compare second.

    There are only four explanations for your findings.

    1. The Kef you own are different internally than the 84-1987 run

    2. Room placement is off- they are too close to something

    3. The cables and electronics you have are wrong/inadequate. What are they btw? source, amp, preamp, cables?

    4. You have a set that was defective.

    The pair I have (which is indicative of the 84-87 line) is ruler flat, and not recessed at all. What you are experiancing is not the way these KEF sound...at all.
    Mine are from1989. I also believe the cross over is different. Mine are certainly not defective !
    I have a review made by a french magazine "Revue du son - 1985". Frequency curves are clearly showing a slightly ascending curve from medium to high frequency....Do you want a copy ?
    Anyway, who cares...if they sound good to you...


    Olivier

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sealed
    It's always funny how people suddenly have a committee consensus when they post something dubious. IE: "I just surveyed six dozen of my local KEF 104/2 owners group and..." not to mention the error I made by providing some setup information beforehand. That taints the thread. Now you can just repeat my setup instructions and claim you have a $100,000 front end and the proper setup with Techtronix and HP sound meters confirming some kind of recessed frequency band. I will not do that again...
    Note to self: ask first... compare second.

    There are only four explanations for your findings.

    1. The Kef you own are different internally than the 84-1987 run

    2. Room placement is off- they are too close to something

    3. The cables and electronics you have are wrong/inadequate. What are they btw? source, amp, preamp, cables?

    4. You have a set that was defective.

    The pair I have (which is indicative of the 84-87 line) is ruler flat, and not recessed at all. What you are experiancing is not the way these KEF sound...at all.
    I also believe crossovers of 1989 versions are different..
    I do have review made by "Revue du Son 1985". The frequency curve is showing a ascending trend from medium to high frequency...Maybe yours are different..
    But who cares...if they sound good to you...

    Olivier

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    Quote Originally Posted by oplancq
    I also believe crossovers of 1989 versions are different..
    I do have review made by "Revue du Son 1985". The frequency curve is showing a ascending trend from medium to high frequency...Maybe yours are different..
    But who cares...if they sound good to you...

    Olivier
    Actually, I note you failed to list your components. What are you afraid of? This is very relevant.

    Just because you thread-crapped by posting a charactaristic that has nothing to do with KEF from 84-87 I wondered how you ascertained this. I have experiance with KEF going back to 1986, and again, I have not heard post-1987 models.

    Seems like you are more interested in trolling, than the truth.

    But again, "revue du son" wasn't exactly a great pub. The KEF that made it to the states could have also been voiced differently. The is no ascencion, as per a KEF tech I just talked to thursday. Maybe you can post this review online.

    I think that you have problems related to your system, the year (possibly the biwire ) version.)

    I am listening in a room that is concrete all the way around. All the spl measurements (swept tone and pink noise) I have taken corroborate KEF's measurements. There is no "decline" to be heard or measured.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sealed
    Actually, I note you failed to list your components. What are you afraid of? This is very relevant.

    Just because you thread-crapped by posting a charactaristic that has nothing to do with KEF from 84-87 I wondered how you ascertained this. I have experiance with KEF going back to 1986, and again, I have not heard post-1987 models.

    Seems like you are more interested in trolling, than the truth.

    But again, "revue du son" wasn't exactly a great pub. The KEF that made it to the states could have also been voiced differently. The is no ascencion, as per a KEF tech I just talked to thursday. Maybe you can post this review online.

    I think that you have problems related to your system, the year (possibly the biwire ) version.)


    I am listening in a room that is concrete all the way around. All the spl measurements (swept tone and pink noise) I have taken corroborate KEF's measurements. There is no "decline" to be heard or measured.

    - "revue du son" is a French mag (by the way I don't believe it's allowed to post publications). The mag of this period was excellent. And the report is based on 1985 version where this characteristic is obvious on the curve..
    - my speakers are European version made in 1989. So not the RC biwire version produced quiet later..
    - Of course KEF people are going to pretend, they have flat speakers...What were you expecting ? I suppose they pretend KEF 107 is flat...go and check measurement from Stereophile...
    - Rest of my gear (actual): Pre: Atoll PR100, VTL 75, Rega Planet 2000, ART DI/O, Rega P3, Golring 1022, Gram AMP 2, CC89259 à la Jon Risch. What about yours ?
    - I'm quiet surprised you have a flat measurement in a concrete room ???

    Seems to me you are more interested in persuading your self and others that your speakers are perfect than in the truth....
    By the way in you first post, you mention those were not perfect speakers...so according to you what are the weaknesses ???
    You also mentioned some independant measurment, can you share those ??

    But as you mention, your speakers might be different...Just wanted to share my findings on "others" 104/2. This is what a forum is made for.

    Thanks

    By the way, did I mention I just love my KEFs but I try to stay realistic. And I also believe it's pretty hard to find a better pair of speakers below 1K...
    Last edited by oplancq; 04-11-2004 at 04:52 AM.

  13. #13
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    [QUOTE=oplancq]- - my speakers are European version made in 1989. So not the RC biwire version produced quiet later..

    How? they stopped production. That makes no sense to have a biwire after production halts.


    - Of course KEF people are going to pretend, they have flat speakers...What were you expecting ? I suppose they pretend KEF 107 is flat...go and check measurement from Stereophile...
    They meaning we? So, it is revealed your whole purpose here is definately to thread crap. It is to try to slander KEF into saying they are all recessed as you state.

    - Rest of my gear (actual): Pre: Atoll PR100, VTL 75, Rega Planet 2000, ART DI/O, Rega P3, Golring 1022, Gram AMP 2, CC89259 à la Jon Risch. What about yours ?

    Ah ha! Nice an euphonically colored tubes! So you like distortion! Sounds like a very relaxed and laid back system.

    - I'm quiet surprised you have a flat measurement in a concrete room ???

    yes.
    Much better than a wooden room.

    Seems to me you are more interested in persuading your self and others that your speakers are perfect than in the truth....
    --No, they are just not as flawed as you trolled.


    Why don't you just admit the whole reason for you to post here is to crap on my thread, lie about KEF (by painting all of them with your false findings.)

    All you are doing is attempting to rain dicredit based upon your findings in your laid back, euphonic system. The kef sounds the way they do because of your obviously colored system.

    Let break it down:

    VTL 75: not a lot of power here, can sound slow on a lot of speakers. Also can sound bloomy and colored.

    REGA p3/RB300/Goldring. nice beginner deck. Lacks tonality, I just set up a deck like that. could really use a better cart. A bit cool and lifeless as is.

    Rega planet 2000: nice budget cd player. Does not have ambient recovery like a better cd player. lacks impact, but a nice, polite, pleasent soundling laid back player. it will never offend, because it errs on this side of omission.

    So, you are talking about flaws in a speaker...with a flawed system. Not exactly a good reference platform for judging. You should upgrade before making such a call.
    Last edited by Sealed; 04-11-2004 at 06:02 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sealed

    How? they stopped production. That makes no sense to have a biwire after production halts.


    .
    This is a typical pathetic answer from somebody unable to argue anymore:
    KEF stopped production of 104/2 after 1990 ??? Ridiculous. KEF was still selling biwire version of 104/2 in early 90's: R Cook version. Unless KEF website is wrong...
    Me trying to slander KEF ? Are you kidding, I said I love them (also have some 104aB). Just said high medium was laid back. This is easily proven with independent review...False findings ??? no just facts !
    About my system: I was sure you were going to come with such cheap arguments.
    VTL: lacking power? This proves you are not familiar with this amp.... Lacking finesse maybe. Slightly colored in the bass, low medium. Yes. Also had some Audio Analogue Donizetti, Atoll AM100...This laid back high medium is more or less always there.
    I think the KUBE was also equalizing the medium ? No ???
    Rega Planet: just using this as a drive since I find this too polite. As mentioned, I’m using a DIO as a DAC.
    Never said my system was perfectly neutral: gosh I’d hate that. But it’s good enough. The bottleneck is probably the 104/2.
    You confirm you have a flat measurement in a concrete room? Well...I don’t believe you unless your room is treated.

    Now your time to answer:
    -Your system ?
    - Reference of your independent reviews?
    - If any what are 104/2 weaknesses ?

    And stop calling me a troll...this is not the case and I hate that.
    Last edited by oplancq; 04-11-2004 at 02:51 PM.

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    confirmation

    Quote Originally Posted by oplancq
    This is a typical pathetic answer from somebody unable to argue anymore:
    KEF stopped production of 104/2 after 1990 ??? Ridiculous. KEF was still selling biwire version of 104/2 in early 90's: R Cook version. Unless KEF website is wrong...
    Me trying to slander KEF ? Are you kidding, I said I love them (also have some 104aB). Just said high medium was laid back. This is easily proven with independent review...False findings ??? no just facts !
    About my system: I was sure you were going to come with such cheap arguments.
    VTL: lacking power? This proves you are not familiar with this amp.... Lacking finesse maybe. Slightly colored in the bass, low medium. Yes. Also had some Audio Analogue Donizetti, Atoll AM100...This laid back high medium is more or less always there.
    I think the KUBE was also equalizing the medium ? No ???
    Rega Planet: just using this as a drive since I find this too polite. As mentioned, I’m using a DIO as a DAC.
    Never said my system was perfectly neutral: gosh I’d hate that. But it’s good enough. The bottleneck is probably the 104/2.
    You confirm you have a flat measurement in a concrete room? Well...I don’t believe you unless your room is treated.

    Now your time to answer:
    -Your system ?
    - Reference of your independent reviews?
    - If any what are 104/2 weaknesses ?

    And stop calling me a troll...this is not the case and I hate that.
    Thanks for confirming all my assertions. You have a colored, bloomy system with a laid back presentation as I stated. The VTL isn't exactly a passlabs x-350 power wise, now is it? How does listening to transformers sound?

    You admitted to me exactly what I suspected. You can cast rocks, at one thing, but when someone points out the obvious flaws in your system, and how colored and slow and bloomy it is then you get mad. I can't help it if you don't have a neutral reference in which to judge flat from. You perspective is obviously tainted by all that time listening to a soggy, bloomy warm and slow system.

    My findings stand. The 104/2 are not harsh, rolled off, recessed, or heavily colored. But I have NO DOUBT in your system they sound slow and recessed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sealed
    Thanks for confirming all my assertions. You have a colored, bloomy system with a laid back presentation as I stated. The VTL isn't exactly a passlabs x-350 power wise, now is it? How does listening to transformers sound?

    You admitted to me exactly what I suspected. You can cast rocks, at one thing, but when someone points out the obvious flaws in your system, and how colored and slow and bloomy it is then you get mad. I can't help it if you don't have a neutral reference in which to judge flat from. You perspective is obviously tainted by all that time listening to a soggy, bloomy warm and slow system.

    My findings stand. The 104/2 are not harsh, rolled off, recessed, or heavily colored. But I have NO DOUBT in your system they sound slow and recessed.
    Never said they were harsh, roll off, heavy colored...Only medium from 1Khz to 3KHz was slightly laidback. This is confirmed by measures from independant magazines.
    I'm now sure you just have your opinion with you and are just able to make assumptions based on your system (which is probably very good)...But you cannot generalize...
    My system is not bloomy warm and slow. Assesing that without listening proves you are just not objective...
    Also you cannot compare power from valve and power from solid state amps. You should know that. My amp was measures at 110 W/8ohms and this is quiet enough to drive the KEFs.

    I'm not getting mad. I love my system as it is. I just want to give a complete picture on this forum. YOU are mad when I come with facts stating your speakers are not as flat as you wish they should be...You are getting mad, but you have no objective facts with you. It is not possible to discuss with you as I could see in some of your others posts on this forum. You are just able to attack others systems: pathetic...

    And don't forget to answer my other questions...

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    system

    Quote Originally Posted by oplancq
    Never said they were harsh, roll off, heavy colored...Only medium from 1Khz to 3KHz was slightly laidback. This is confirmed by measures from independant magazines.
    I'm now sure you just have your opinion with you and are just able to make assumptions based on your system (which is probably very good)...But you cannot generalize...
    My system is not bloomy warm and slow. Assesing that without listening proves you are just not objective...
    Also you cannot compare power from valve and power from solid state amps. You should know that. My amp was measures at 110 W/8ohms and this is quiet enough to drive the KEFs.

    I'm not getting mad. I love my system as it is. I just want to give a complete picture on this forum. YOU are mad when I come with facts stating your speakers are not as flat as you wish they should be...You are getting mad, but you have no objective facts with you. It is not possible to discuss with you as I could see in some of your others posts on this forum. You are just able to attack others systems: pathetic...

    And don't forget to answer my other questions...
    No, actually your system is pathetic. You have proven again my assertion. You seem to think your system is perfect and beyond reproach. You are no more objective than anyone.

    This thread has become irrelevent due to the fact you have not posted the so-called findings of said experts that measured the audible roll off.

    The whole of your post in this thread was simply to crap on the idea that the 104/2 is in fact flat from 55hz to 22khz with no audible or measured recession. All the words you post will not change that fact.

    My system:

    An amp that is much more powerful than yours, faster and more neutral.
    A cd player that is much more revealing than yours.
    A turntable that is more expensive, revealing and musical than yours.

    So what's the point? No matter what is posted at this point, it's all subjective.

    You should have made your own thread entitled: "Why Kef 104/2's made after 1987 are audibly flawed"
    and stayed out of mine.
    Last edited by Sealed; 04-12-2004 at 01:52 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sealed
    No, actually your system is pathetic.

    >> Thanks...You are again proving what I'm saying: you have no arguments..you are just able to base you judgements on stereotypes: tube is colored, expensive is good...

    You have proven again my assertion. You seem to think your system is perfect and beyond reproach. You are no more objective than anyone.

    >> Ridiculous...please read more carefully previous my previous posts...You are the one to pretend that..

    This thread has become irrelevant due to the fact you have not posted the so-called findings of said experts that measured the audible roll off.

    >> Yes. I'll find a way to publish the graphs from Revue du Son. Could you publish your doc. No, I'm sure you don't have any.

    The whole of your post in this thread was simply to crap on the idea that the 104/2 is in fact flat from 55hz to 22khz with no audible or measured recession. All the words you post will not change that fact.

    >>It's a fact. Does not mean they are bad speakers. I love mine. Any flat speaker in an anechoic room is not going to perform flat in one normal room anyway.

    My system:

    An amp that is much more powerful than yours, faster and more neutral.
    A cd player that is much more revealing than yours.
    A turntable that is more expensive, revealing and musical than yours.

    >> Blablabla...Ridiculous arguments. You never heard my system. Did you already heard one good DIO ? No...More expensive does not mean better. You should know that. It's just a question of synergy of quality pieces.
    Even if your system is better than mine. This is not the point of the discussion here

    So what's the point? No matter what is posted at this point, it's all subjective.

    >> Yes I will continue to enjoy my flawed system. I'm not pretending mine is perfect as you seem to have one: a perfect system in a perfect room. I have my doubts...

    You should have made your own thread entitled: "Why Kef 104/2's made after 1987 are audibly flawed"
    and stayed out of mine.
    >> Could be that post 1987 are different...maybe...Curves from RDS are from 1985 though...
    I really think that your place does not belong to a forum... A forum is a place where we try to share information. Not a place to insult people and impose his view.
    I find highly suspect somebody who refuses to tell his system and refuses to answer others basic questions:
    - weaknesses of the 104/2
    - References of independent reviews you mention in the first post...

    Text inserted in yours...

    Too bad we don't have other inmates to comment on those speakers...On AA, we have more interesting opinions...
    Last edited by oplancq; 04-12-2004 at 06:41 AM.

  19. #19
    M.P.S.E /AES/SMPTE member Sir Terrence the Terrible's Avatar
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    I have never seen so much ego and so many things get so personal. I know of only one speaker that exibits a ruler flat measurement in a normal room. The KEF isn't it. And in a concrete room, I have tremendous doubts you will get a ruler flat response because these rooms "contain" room resonaces and standing waves much easier than other building materials. 55hz low frequency limit does not make a full range speaker. IMO, and sub is absolutely necessary as this speaker would have a terrible time with the cannon shots of the 1812 overture, or the low bass from works like the Planets, or any organ music.

    I cannot comment on the dip between 1-3khz. But the kind of response that you state sealed is usually found only in anechoic chambers.

    Oliver, I have to give you props for you honesty. Not many people are very realistic in the assesment of their own speakers.
    Sir Terrence

    Titan Reference 3D 1080p projector
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    2 custom 15" sealed FFEC servo subs
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  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sealed
    You speak for the whole of AA?

    I know you are angry because you can't afford a better system that isn't so slow and highly colored.

    Your opinion is a waste of bandwidth when you jump into a thread and crap all over it.

    Not to mention your sadly euphonic and highly inaccurate budget system.

    Sad, when you can't tell the difference between high end, and wanna-be.

    Enjoy your distortion, and self righteous claptrap.

    Feel free to post again when you have upgraded your electronics to something worthy.
    "I know, my system, "...Woah...

    I'm not angry, mad or jealous. I can certainly afford more expensive electonics. What is the point if they are not better to my ears. There are certainly better electronics than mine but so far I'm happy. I'm probably going to upgrade: certainly not the amp by the way...
    IMHO more expensive does not mean better..I have heard tons of mega bucks systems: some of them were just pathetic: cold, analytical...beeurk.
    The way you judge others systems is weird, the way you don't answer questions is suspect, the way you make judgements based on stereotypes is amusing. You seem pretty proud of your system but you are just not able to describe the way it sounds honestly. Looks like a poor listener behaviour...You seem to be able to judge high end just based on the price. Pathetic..This forum is not reserved to zillionaire systems...
    The way you act just means you have no idear what a forum is all about.
    Last edited by oplancq; 04-12-2004 at 11:15 PM.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sealed
    no, poor listener behaviour is someone like you that buys second-rate crap that is heavily colored , slow and highly inaccurate and you think you are making accuracy calls.

    It also sounds like you are proud of your cheap crap, and try to justify it thinking that it's huge flaws are high fidelity. That is very poor listener behaviour.

    I have an "idear" this forum is about real hifi, not hyper-colored midfi trying to pass as high end.

    Having a nice, slow, rolled off system that is obviously veiled and lacks details is a very poor reference.

    Try to get some real gear, won't you? the cheap stuff you have is barely a notch over circuit city dreck.

    ROTFLMAO!
    VTL ? Second rate crap ? Arguments please; why it would not be appropriate to drive KEF 104/2 ! Cheap ? if you say so.....and who cares ? You continue to discuss price...That's your only argument ??? Pretty poor... When do you plan to answer the questions ? You seem pretty sure my system is colored (without listening!) but you are just not able to describe yours...Oh yes probably you have not decided yet which exceptional system you were owning...Sweet dreams...
    Too bad this post is going nowhere since I agree with some of what you were saying: "104/2 still great after all this years..."

    By the way, what means: "ROTFLMAO" ?
    Last edited by oplancq; 04-13-2004 at 12:23 AM.

  22. #22
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    "The 104/2 bass extends easily into the middle of the 1st octave.": you must have a smallish listening room.
    You still do not tell us more about your system ? Nor give reference of the independent reviews you mentioned.
    Are you ashamed of your MF A3.2 (I was expecting something more expensive, more much powerful, apparently not the most neutral around...but never heard it), LP12, Meridian 508.24 (I heard this one. Well, not the most neutral around either, but nice..better than my Planet but than a modified DIO: not sure !) ?
    Congrats: you probably also have a nicely colored, flawed system..!

    Did not know BBC designed 104/2.
    Your posts are sterile and quiet aggresive, each time somebody does not agree with you, you become close to the limit: See
    http://www.audioasylum.com/audio/spe...es/158754.html


    So go back in your free of resonance concrete room, listening to your perfect system.....
    Last edited by oplancq; 04-13-2004 at 03:30 AM.

  23. #23
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    Ah, ah, ah.....

    Quote Originally Posted by Sealed
    First off, you are an idiot. I never listed what "MY" system is, it is in fact far superior to your pretender setup. It's nothing you have ever heard, could buy or have seen tested. My whole system (which I have not posted) has been reengineered from any stock form, so no, you have not heard any of it.

    >>
    Yes right. Why do you say on AA that you own MF A3.2, Meridian 508.24 ???? Let's say it's for a scond system...

    Your main is the most hilarious system I ever heard...
    Blablabla...Your system is from Mars made from unknown materials...Nuclear CDP ? I believe the radiation went to your brains and ears..


    Second: you cannot hear 1st octave cleanly in a small room, bass wavelengths require space. So you made another false and asinine assumption.

    >> That's what I thought...you have a room full of resonances and just do not get clean low bass


    Fourth: you have no proof of a damn thing. There are not charts, reviews, postings, nothing whatsoever except your word. You have proof of NOTHING you claim.

    >> Yes I have. But what about the references you mentioned in your fist post ?? nothing, nothing, nothing...



    Sixth: This thread stopped going anywhere the moment you posted your unfounded lies. See fourth.

    >> no, just facts. See 4.

    Seventh: whether here or on AA if a retard like you (or anyone else) makes asinine, unproved, and retarded false claims with no proof at all blanketing and generalizing then expect to get flamed. You haven't seen "aggressive" yet, those threads have been deleted. But, I wasn't wrong in what I stated, just very pointed about it.

    >> Looks like only you has the truth...Amen.


    Eighth: You can stop any time. You and an entire army of morons and unreliable French reviewers can say anything you want. Doesn't change reality.

    >> Really, stop surfing forums. You are useless to the community. And you are also racist ?


    Ninth: I live a short drive from KEF...don't presume to tell me who designed them, or anything else.

    >> Oh yeah. You don't even know some 104/2 were made in the 90's.

    Tenth: Shove all of it up your A$$.

    >> No comment
    I forgive you: you are contaminated.
    Last edited by oplancq; 04-13-2004 at 05:01 AM.

  24. #24
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    104/2 - need help with overall

    it seems like this forum is a bit spiked up.

    i hope you are as willing to help other 104/2 owners in need as well as arguing on who's ego is larger (0:

    i recently bought the 104/2 with the ONKYO INTEGRA 939 and a SONY CDP-XE330.

    I KNOW !!! i should buy better stuff... but i don't have the money, i will upgrade soon.

    the problem with the KEF's i bought is a torched tweeter and the 8" drivers are crumbling on the inner edges.

    i want to bring them to life, but... KEF doesn't make any of the driver units, so i have to repair the tweeter and the 8" drivers.
    if i could, i would buy the whole drivers again.

    If anybody has a thought about how i can give them old pair the treatment they deserve, i would greatly apreciate it.

    truly yours
    amit

    "he who fights with dragons, in time would become a dragon himself" - Lord Byron

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by amitius
    i want to bring them to life, but... KEF doesn't make any of the driver units, so i have to repair the tweeter and the 8" drivers.
    if i could, i would buy the whole drivers again.
    Hello,
    I cannot help for the tweeter. Maybe on ebay ?? Wilmslow is selling Peerless 811528 as a replacement (https://secure.wilmslow-audio.co.uk/...e_Units_8.html)...Probably the same size, but the Xover probably does not match anymore...Might be worth to try...
    For the woofers, are you talking of the anti dust seal ? If yes, it's a known problem, KEF still has spare parts. You just need to glue the news ones. No need to replace the woofers. You should write a mail to KEF support. They are really helpfull.

    Olivier

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