KEF 104.2: still great after all these years!

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[QUOTE=oplancq]- - my speakers are European version made in 1989. So not the RC biwire version produced quiet later..

How? they stopped production. That makes no sense to have a biwire after production halts.


- Of course KEF people are going to pretend, they have flat speakers...What were you expecting ? I suppose they pretend KEF 107 is flat...go and check measurement from Stereophile...
They meaning we? So, it is revealed your whole purpose here is definately to thread crap. It is to try to slander KEF into saying they are all recessed as you state.

- Rest of my gear (actual): Pre: Atoll PR100, VTL 75, Rega Planet 2000, ART DI/O, Rega P3, Golring 1022, Gram AMP 2, CC89259 à la Jon Risch. What about yours ?

Ah ha! Nice an euphonically colored tubes! So you like distortion! Sounds like a very relaxed and laid back system.

- I'm quiet surprised you have a flat measurement in a concrete room ???

yes. Much better than a wooden room.

Seems to me you are more interested in persuading your self and others that your speakers are perfect than in the truth....
--No, they are just not as flawed as you trolled.


Why don't you just admit the whole reason for you to post here is to crap on my thread, lie about KEF (by painting all of them with your false findings.)

All you are doing is attempting to rain dicredit based upon your findings in your laid back, euphonic system. The kef sounds the way they do because of your obviously colored system.

Let break it down:

VTL 75: not a lot of power here, can sound slow on a lot of speakers. Also can sound bloomy and colored.

REGA p3/RB300/Goldring. nice beginner deck. Lacks tonality, I just set up a deck like that. could really use a better cart. A bit cool and lifeless as is.

Rega planet 2000: nice budget cd player. Does not have ambient recovery like a better cd player. lacks impact, but a nice, polite, pleasent soundling laid back player. it will never offend, because it errs on this side of omission.

So, you are talking about flaws in a speaker...with a flawed system. Not exactly a good reference platform for judging. You should upgrade before making such a call.

[oplancq]

How? they stopped production. That makes no sense to have a biwire after production halts.


.

This is a typical pathetic answer from somebody unable to argue anymore:
KEF stopped production of 104/2 after 1990 ??? Ridiculous. KEF was still selling biwire version of 104/2 in early 90's: R Cook version. Unless KEF website is wrong...
Me trying to slander KEF ? Are you kidding, I said I love them (also have some 104aB). Just said high medium was laid back. This is easily proven with independent review...False findings ??? no just facts !
About my system: I was sure you were going to come with such cheap arguments.
VTL: lacking power? This proves you are not familiar with this amp.... Lacking finesse maybe. Slightly colored in the bass, low medium. Yes. Also had some Audio Analogue Donizetti, Atoll AM100...This laid back high medium is more or less always there.
I think the KUBE was also equalizing the medium ? No ???
Rega Planet: just using this as a drive since I find this too polite. As mentioned, I’m using a DIO as a DAC.
Never said my system was perfectly neutral: gosh I’d hate that. But it’s good enough. The bottleneck is probably the 104/2.
You confirm you have a flat measurement in a concrete room? Well...I don’t believe you unless your room is treated.

Now your time to answer:
-Your system ?
- Reference of your independent reviews?
- If any what are 104/2 weaknesses ?

And stop calling me a troll...this is not the case and I hate that.

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This is a typical pathetic answer from somebody unable to argue anymore:
KEF stopped production of 104/2 after 1990 ??? Ridiculous. KEF was still selling biwire version of 104/2 in early 90's: R Cook version. Unless KEF website is wrong...
Me trying to slander KEF ? Are you kidding, I said I love them (also have some 104aB). Just said high medium was laid back. This is easily proven with independent review...False findings ??? no just facts !
About my system: I was sure you were going to come with such cheap arguments.
VTL: lacking power? This proves you are not familiar with this amp.... Lacking finesse maybe. Slightly colored in the bass, low medium. Yes. Also had some Audio Analogue Donizetti, Atoll AM100...This laid back high medium is more or less always there.
I think the KUBE was also equalizing the medium ? No ???
Rega Planet: just using this as a drive since I find this too polite. As mentioned, I’m using a DIO as a DAC.
Never said my system was perfectly neutral: gosh I’d hate that. But it’s good enough. The bottleneck is probably the 104/2.
You confirm you have a flat measurement in a concrete room? Well...I don’t believe you unless your room is treated.

Now your time to answer:
-Your system ?
- Reference of your independent reviews?
- If any what are 104/2 weaknesses ?

And stop calling me a troll...this is not the case and I hate that.

Thanks for confirming all my assertions. You have a colored, bloomy system with a laid back presentation as I stated. The VTL isn't exactly a passlabs x-350 power wise, now is it? How does listening to transformers sound?

You admitted to me exactly what I suspected. You can cast rocks, at one thing, but when someone points out the obvious flaws in your system, and how colored and slow and bloomy it is then you get mad. I can't help it if you don't have a neutral reference in which to judge flat from. You perspective is obviously tainted by all that time listening to a soggy, bloomy warm and slow system.

My findings stand. The 104/2 are not harsh, rolled off, recessed, or heavily colored. But I have NO DOUBT in your system they sound slow and recessed.

[oplancq]

Thanks for confirming all my assertions. You have a colored, bloomy system with a laid back presentation as I stated. The VTL isn't exactly a passlabs x-350 power wise, now is it? How does listening to transformers sound?

You admitted to me exactly what I suspected. You can cast rocks, at one thing, but when someone points out the obvious flaws in your system, and how colored and slow and bloomy it is then you get mad. I can't help it if you don't have a neutral reference in which to judge flat from. You perspective is obviously tainted by all that time listening to a soggy, bloomy warm and slow system.

My findings stand. The 104/2 are not harsh, rolled off, recessed, or heavily colored. But I have NO DOUBT in your system they sound slow and recessed.

Never said they were harsh, roll off, heavy colored...Only medium from 1Khz to 3KHz was slightly laidback. This is confirmed by measures from independant magazines.
I'm now sure you just have your opinion with you and are just able to make assumptions based on your system (which is probably very good)...But you cannot generalize...
My system is not bloomy warm and slow. Assesing that without listening proves you are just not objective...
Also you cannot compare power from valve and power from solid state amps. You should know that. My amp was measures at 110 W/8ohms and this is quiet enough to drive the KEFs.

I'm not getting mad. I love my system as it is. I just want to give a complete picture on this forum. YOU are mad when I come with facts stating your speakers are not as flat as you wish they should be...You are getting mad, but you have no objective facts with you. It is not possible to discuss with you as I could see in some of your others posts on this forum. You are just able to attack others systems: pathetic...

And don't forget to answer my other questions...

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Never said they were harsh, roll off, heavy colored...Only medium from 1Khz to 3KHz was slightly laidback. This is confirmed by measures from independant magazines.
I'm now sure you just have your opinion with you and are just able to make assumptions based on your system (which is probably very good)...But you cannot generalize...
My system is not bloomy warm and slow. Assesing that without listening proves you are just not objective...
Also you cannot compare power from valve and power from solid state amps. You should know that. My amp was measures at 110 W/8ohms and this is quiet enough to drive the KEFs.

I'm not getting mad. I love my system as it is. I just want to give a complete picture on this forum. YOU are mad when I come with facts stating your speakers are not as flat as you wish they should be...You are getting mad, but you have no objective facts with you. It is not possible to discuss with you as I could see in some of your others posts on this forum. You are just able to attack others systems: pathetic...

And don't forget to answer my other questions...

No, actually your system is pathetic. You have proven again my assertion. You seem to think your system is perfect and beyond reproach. You are no more objective than anyone.

This thread has become irrelevent due to the fact you have not posted the so-called findings of said experts that measured the audible roll off.

The whole of your post in this thread was simply to crap on the idea that the 104/2 is in fact flat from 55hz to 22khz with no audible or measured recession. All the words you post will not change that fact.

My system:

An amp that is much more powerful than yours, faster and more neutral.
A cd player that is much more revealing than yours.
A turntable that is more expensive, revealing and musical than yours.

So what's the point? No matter what is posted at this point, it's all subjective.

You should have made your own thread entitled: "Why Kef 104/2's made after 1987 are audibly flawed"
and stayed out of mine.

[oplancq]

No, actually your system is pathetic.

>> Thanks...You are again proving what I'm saying: you have no arguments..you are just able to base you judgements on stereotypes: tube is colored, expensive is good...

You have proven again my assertion. You seem to think your system is perfect and beyond reproach. You are no more objective than anyone.

>> Ridiculous...please read more carefully previous my previous posts...You are the one to pretend that..

This thread has become irrelevant due to the fact you have not posted the so-called findings of said experts that measured the audible roll off.

>> Yes. I'll find a way to publish the graphs from Revue du Son. Could you publish your doc. No, I'm sure you don't have any.

The whole of your post in this thread was simply to crap on the idea that the 104/2 is in fact flat from 55hz to 22khz with no audible or measured recession. All the words you post will not change that fact.

>>It's a fact. Does not mean they are bad speakers. I love mine. Any flat speaker in an anechoic room is not going to perform flat in one normal room anyway.

My system:

An amp that is much more powerful than yours, faster and more neutral.
A cd player that is much more revealing than yours.
A turntable that is more expensive, revealing and musical than yours.

>> Blablabla...Ridiculous arguments. You never heard my system. Did you already heard one good DIO ? No...More expensive does not mean better. You should know that. It's just a question of synergy of quality pieces.
Even if your system is better than mine. This is not the point of the discussion here

So what's the point? No matter what is posted at this point, it's all subjective.

>> Yes I will continue to enjoy my flawed system. I'm not pretending mine is perfect as you seem to have one: a perfect system in a perfect room. I have my doubts...

You should have made your own thread entitled: "Why Kef 104/2's made after 1987 are audibly flawed"
and stayed out of mine.
>> Could be that post 1987 are different...maybe...Curves from RDS are from 1985 though...
I really think that your place does not belong to a forum... A forum is a place where we try to share information. Not a place to insult people and impose his view.
I find highly suspect somebody who refuses to tell his system and refuses to answer others basic questions:
- weaknesses of the 104/2
- References of independent reviews you mention in the first post...

Text inserted in yours...

Too bad we don't have other inmates to comment on those speakers...On AA, we have more interesting opinions...

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

I have never seen so much ego and so many things get so personal. I know of only one speaker that exibits a ruler flat measurement in a normal room. The KEF isn't it. And in a concrete room, I have tremendous doubts you will get a ruler flat response because these rooms "contain" room resonaces and standing waves much easier than other building materials. 55hz low frequency limit does not make a full range speaker. IMO, and sub is absolutely necessary as this speaker would have a terrible time with the cannon shots of the 1812 overture, or the low bass from works like the Planets, or any organ music.

I cannot comment on the dip between 1-3khz. But the kind of response that you state sealed is usually found only in anechoic chambers.

Oliver, I have to give you props for you honesty. Not many people are very realistic in the assesment of their own speakers.

[oplancq]

You speak for the whole of AA?

I know you are angry because you can't afford a better system that isn't so slow and highly colored.

Your opinion is a waste of bandwidth when you jump into a thread and crap all over it.

Not to mention your sadly euphonic and highly inaccurate budget system.

Sad, when you can't tell the difference between high end, and wanna-be.

Enjoy your distortion, and self righteous claptrap.

Feel free to post again when you have upgraded your electronics to something worthy.

"I know, my system, "...Woah...

I'm not angry, mad or jealous. I can certainly afford more expensive electonics. What is the point if they are not better to my ears. There are certainly better electronics than mine but so far I'm happy. I'm probably going to upgrade: certainly not the amp by the way...
IMHO more expensive does not mean better..I have heard tons of mega bucks systems: some of them were just pathetic: cold, analytical...beeurk.
The way you judge others systems is weird, the way you don't answer questions is suspect, the way you make judgements based on stereotypes is amusing. You seem pretty proud of your system but you are just not able to describe the way it sounds honestly. Looks like a poor listener behaviour...You seem to be able to judge high end just based on the price. Pathetic..This forum is not reserved to zillionaire systems...
The way you act just means you have no idear what a forum is all about.