how do you rate these floorstanders? this is my demo list...

[RGA]

IDoes Audio Note offer a free trial with a money back guarantee? Why not? At least Magnapan is willing to meet the public part way with the free shipping to the customer. Since it's been an ongoing thing for morethan a few years, I'd say it's a good bet that more people keep 'em (or upgrade) than send them back.

It all depends on how you look at this. One could look at that as a gimmick which is similar to nOhr and Axiom's offers. Most people with no frame of reference will get the speaker at home and with nothing to compare to the speaker will sound pretty good - against nothing - so Joe Shmo will keep the speaker because of the hassle involved with returning them. Plus it's a great way to prevent non buyers from reviewing them - since owners like me are not going to buy the speaker - it prevents casual audiophile/reivewers from ever hearing their speaker - so it can be viewed as a way to stack their deck on several fronts. Furthermore, every high end dealer here will allow you to take the demo for a free trial to see if you like them. The Maggie dealer in Vancouver would likely let me take home the 1.6/3.6 etc for a free home trial. The 3.6 despite the measurements will be on my audition list when I move to that level.

Doesn't your Audio Note want to take that gamble? Again, why not? I'm sure if they are that great a bang for the buck they would noit lose money on the deal.

Audio Note prefers that people auditioning their system listen with their all Audio Note system so that you can hear what it is supposed to sound like...that has a two-fold rationale. 1) The system is designed as a unit not single entities - the idea being that when you go audition if you don't like what you heard at least they can burn in flames knowing it was an Audio note product that let them down and not somebody elses piece of crap. 2) The other being that it is quite helpful to the consumer and Audio Note that if you were utterly blown away by the system you know the componants you need to buy to get the system...not try and remember that it was X brand speaker D brand cd player, Z brand turntable and S brand amp. Naturally that helps Audio Note sell more units or packaged systems. Audio Note does not need a gimmick to sell speakers or any other product - they don't make to sell looks, they don't advertise, ... they actually let you hear them against other brands...and high end stores that have the bucks to carry Audio Note proabably will. I think it's telling that one of the biggest dealers in North America removed the N801/N802 - gorgeous looking will sell on reputation and reviews and advertising alone and replaced them with Butt ugly plain Jane Audio note no name non advertised speakers. They dumped ML incidentally because they were embarrassed.

I'd expect a LOT for a 20 grand speaker. Making excuses for it's weakness is NOT the way to convince me that it's a good deal. Funny you mention soundstage. That's one of the strong points of maggies... all of 'em from the lowly MMG's to the 20.1.

Soundstage is a weakness in positioning not the speaker (And in fact the difference in the sound from one recording to another seems to show more nuance in recordings than most speakers that shove everything to the center so people can be "blown away" by the precise imiging and soundstage...when in fact it is the speaker pressing the stuff to the center when the recording ACTUALLY has the singer left or well right of center)

I've heard a number of very expensive speakers in this price band from Panels, Ribbons and many more "up to date" designs that also lack certain things that the AN E/SEC does so well which is maintaining a cohesive sound from top to bottom better than the statement speakers from ML and B&W such as the Model Nautilus or JM Labs Utopia's. None of these are perfect speakers and neither is the AN E Sec. The difference is the AN E Sec IMO only lacks the very bottom impact bass(Sub 20hz)...which you can add via a sub. You can't add dynamics, you can't add treble smoothness if it isn't there at the start. In fact the AN E/D which is a mere ~2500US has the same "Rated" frequency response and both will hit 12hz in a corner placement likely at -10db but that is still impressive for a 2 way 2 drive unit and better the $11k B&W Nautilus 801 or most all multi-driver slim line floorstanders. In fact the very fact that people would take the speaker over the big Khorn or Quads and is owned by reviewers at Hi Fi Choice and Stereophile and enjoythemusic.com who ALSO give good reviews to Magnepan may not mean it's the best speaker for all people but at the least should tell you it's a higly liveable long term speaker. And that is all you can ask for at the end of the day. And obviously Magnepan falls into this camp.

One thing I LIKE about Magnepan is the fact that anybody who can keep selling the same design for 30+years(even though it's been improved now and again) means they have something...One reason I like the Sugden amps, Audio Note, Quads, among other speakers is because the designs are 30+ years old but new better materials - if you get it right the first time you only need to tweak...not re-invent every few years.

Again, please keep in mind we're talking < $1000 here but then again, as you've proven many times in the past, you're fond of comparing apples to oranges.

I'm not comparing anything...the B&W 602S3 is around $500.00US. You can't compare a boxed speaker and a panel anyway in most cases - even not counting price. The Audio Note AZ Two is ~$800.00 and is not totally out of this price band and has been compared to Quad...Stats and planars are similar and so apparently is the AZ Two and so this would seem a fair comparison...having not heard the AZ Two and having no way to hear the MMG(why would I I have speakers) then I can only go off the review.

Bringuing up professionals well most recording studios use Senn HD580/600s or B&W Matrix/Nautilus speakers - I'm aware of no studio using any planar designs.

Now i'm not saying this is required to be a good speaker - I'm the one who argues it does not mean much...but in this case i'm illustrating that a LOT of professional musicians and Recording Engineers in the know didn't choose ML, Quad or Magnepan for their studios

[Jimmy C]

...RGA, why bring Quad into the "everything is good because it has been around a long time" thing? Didn't you (somewhat) recently say your last Quad demo (whenever that was) was VERY bad for X type of music? IIRC, you want a speaker to sound good with all music... (which I do NOT subscribe to, but in a perfect world... that's a different argument :*)

Next week, my friend and I have a tentative listening appointment with a bunch of good speakers, including the ANs... right here on Long Island! For him, not me - BUT if they're REALLY good...

Hopefully this is not a double post... I think I screwed up on my first submission...

[RGA]

...RGA, why bring Quad into the "everything is good because it has been around a long time" thing? Didn't you (somewhat) recently say your last Quad demo (whenever that was) was VERY bad for X type of music? IIRC, you want a speaker to sound good with all music... (which I do NOT subscribe to, but in a perfect world... that's a different argument :*)

Next week, my friend and I have a tentative listening appointment with a bunch of good speakers, including the ANs... right here on Long Island! For him, not me - BUT if they're REALLY good...

Hopefully this is not a double post... I think I screwed up on my first submission...

Dear Jimmy C.

Yes The Quad 63 I was not a fan of and I'm still not largely because it cannot perform adequately dynamically for rock...but this is just my opinion...lots of people are quite happy and I did note that this is a used model...which I should have said right at the beginning...so it is also plausable the speaker was not in top form.

Of course this is hardly my complaint as a stand alone complaint of planars and stats. As you get BIGGER panels the sound gets bigger - moe air as it were is moved and dynamics are vastly increased.

I guess what I'm saying is that I love panels I just like the BIG panels. In other words the increased detail in the mid band of say a 3k ML Aerius i is lot on me if the speaker is so dynamically and bass weak. Both issues are fixed up a LOT as you get to bigger panels.

That of course is no different than with a boxed speaker...as you move from the N805 to the N801 or the AN K to the AN E you are getting more bass, impact etc.

I heard the AN E a long time ago(~2 years) when I posted on this forum a review of the 9NT and Studio 100 V2 and Reference 3a MM De Capo. The AN E was the most expensive and left me totally cold - did not like what I heard.

Fast forward 2 years, proper positioning better room(the one's the others were in) and totally different reaction when about 8 months ago I posted my reviews of the 40V2, Decapo, Wharfedale 8.2, CDM 1NT(and informal N805), and AN K...the latter made me want to listen to the AN E - in this case the SEC version.

My regard here is the organic presentation of the speakers...I'm not going to say YOU will love them or want them or anything else. Speaker buying is a personal preference. My goal is for people to make the most informed decision possible. Frankly listening to 11 slim line designs all using a metal tweeter and 3-4 or 5 stacked 6 inch drivers all sound pretty much the same. Yes some will be a bit tighter in the bass a bit smoother in the treble etc but they sound largely the same.

SO go out and listen to Magnepan, Vandersteen, the big fat Tannoys, Audio Note, ML, and the Avante Gaurdes or other notble horns, Legacy(and other backless boxless speakers, crossoverless De Capo's, and even weird stuff like Cabasse or omni-polars from Mirage.

I get on Mirage and Thiel as speakers I simply don't like - they get the reviews and more importantly people RAVE about Thiel as much as I rave about Audio Note - and frankly It would not surprise me if the guy that has Thiels and loves them would feel as negatively toward Audio Note as I feel about the pair of Thiel's I heard. Neither is right or wrong their designer designs out of a passion for the music and the two see it differently....as a buyer all that matter is you attempt to give them due listening and decide for yourself.

I have very picky things I look for that others could care less about and other aspects of the sound that I'm not AS concerned about that others simply MUST have.

People who follow the certain TYPE of sound I like will value my advice and many others won't. I tend to forget this and sort of assume everyone is on my page of listening. Perhaps it's the movie critic in me - I would go toe to toe with Roger Ebert any day on a lot of movies. These film Critics look at a film and have VERY strong opinions that the Y movie is the BEST and everyone else is a nimrod for not seeing it the same way they did.

Hell I know people who hate Pulp Fiction, Monster's Ball, The War Zone, American, Beauty, Goodfellas, Schindler's List, In the Bedroom --- and I try and defend these as some of the best films ever made - all are in my top 100. Then They would get upset with me and try and defend their view that the LOTR trilogy or The Godfather or Citizen Kane or Casablanca should be on my list - and they're not.(Though I'd recommend them).

We can all pull out the countless critics who LOVED all of these films but in the end if I had to watch a movie tonight to entertain and PLEASE ME...I would pull out Pulp Fiction over any LOTR movie or Citizen Kane.

It's about what you like. Since all speakers - ALL OF THEM!! make trade-offs of some kid the individual has to determine what they can and can't live with. The Hi-Fi CHoice review of the AN E D mentions some weaknesses and so does the stereotimes review. Yes they got high marks and many reviewers have bought them...that however does not mean I can't find speakers for the same and even less money that in certain areas won't better Audio Note speakers...I personally feel they're beaten in more pyrotechnic areas rather than the entire musical whole - which is why I went with them - and I still had a budget to deal with like anyone else - If I had 5k I would not have bought the AN K Spe.