Canton Vento 830.2

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Originally Posted by RGA

Frenchmon

I am certainly not saying it is true for all vertical companies or making or even implying anything negative about Canton - I liked the speaker I heard from them.

But I am weary of the generalizations. Largely because IMO Audio Note speakers sound better than "B&W, Paradigm, Revel, Monitor Audio, Dynaudio and Dali" that you listed. I also like Harbeth and Devore more than anything I've heard from any of these as well.

You can't go and buy an AN E or J woofer from SEAS. SEAS makes the woofer for Audio Note per Audio Note's design instructions only for Audio Note. When the woofer is sent to Audio Note they test them - all of them 100% of them The ones that are not quite to AN's highest standard are sold to the Kits division. These would be the ones that are not matched to with 0.2db. The Kits version get the woofers that are not to that standard but no worse than 0.6db. Below that they are sent back to SEAS. .6db is still excellent - Most of the competition is well over 1db off. The B&W N801 in house design are off by 2.9db.

And I don't think we can take B&W out of the discussion or call it foolish to do so as an example because they are very widely viewed as the best "high end" speaker maker on the market. They're certainly the biggest selling "audiophile" speaker maker and they get rave reviews constantly in the press. And they're in a lot of recording studios to boot.

I may not be a big fan of the sound but it's impressive The making of an 800 Series Diamond speaker - YouTube

After watching that video I soooo want to like them more.

What you said was true - Parts express noted that you could buy a kit from them for $300 and you could buy the same speaker with a name brand logo on the front for $3k. But in general that's not the norm.

The better higher end companies are not just slapping stuff together - they have a design and they either make it themselves - like the vertical companies or they have someone else build it for them. Audio Note for example does both. They build the stuff themselves where they feel there is nothing as good on the market - transformers for example. Other high end tube amp makers buy Audio Note transformers and put their own labels on the front. Some buy their cables, caps, resisters, soldering materials etc. Peter liked the Rega 250 tonearm because the type of arm dissipated resonances that matched well with the TT1 and TT2 tables (which are Systemdek turntables with several modifications). But Rega isn't going to supply the Rega tone arm so they looked around for a replacement found none they liked and now build their own tone arm.

It would be like saying - you can build a good amplifier unless you manufacturer your own caps, resisters, wires and circuit boards or you can't be a good CD player maker unless you design your own transport mechanism. Most all of them buy off the shelf stuff for these purposes. Most CD transports come from Sanyo, Sony, Philips and very few others.

An example of this is the very popular Philips L1210 CD mechanism - Bryston uses it, Audio Note and Sim Audio use it. None of the players sound remotely the same - it's technically an "off the shelf" transport mechanism that does the job at a given price. The AN CD player sounds much better even though it is using the same transport mechanism. This illustrates that it is not the actual parts so much as the design and what you do with the parts that counts.

So I am not exactly sure why is it any different with loudspeakers? Two companies can use the exact same tweeters and or woofers and get very different sonic results.

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Oh I know they are not just slapping stuff together. I've listen to some Harbeths and Devore and never came away with that impression. And they are able to get different sonic results....but the opposite can be true as well. But I see your point.

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Originally Posted by texlle

Mmm...high gloss brilliance. Sounds like the new Ventos are a great match for your gear. You say you've also upgraded to the Ortofon 2M Black? What were you using before?

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I used a 2M Red. Thanks for the props...

One thing about the 830.2's is the way it allows the music too swing with certain music. It has a certain clarity and transparency in the core of the music where you hear the rhythm. I would say upper bass and the lower midrange area. Canton seems to have a way of grabbing your attention in this area of the sound. I've notice this with my previous Cantons as well. There is a lot of detail in the back ground that is more noticeable. The rhythmic pace really swings with music, especially Jazz.

I was listening last night to DELIBES - Sylvia/Coppélia Martin West / San Francisco Ballet Orchestra.

http://www.referencerecordings.com/i...25_Cover-s.jpg

The 830.2's displayed a very powerful performance I would not think a stand mount this size could handle. Transient responce was remarkable! Yes the tweeter was remarkable, but what got me was the mid bass response! Not sub bass or lower bass, but that mid bass which I think is between 81-160 Hz. You know it because unlike sub bass and lower bass which can make the ground shake, mid bass you can feel in your chest a bit. And yes I've felt bass in my chest a bit a number of times with this stand mount speaker. really surprised me.

Now Canton spec sheet says this little speaker will go down to 27 hz which is sub room shaking bass. That measurement might have been correct when the mike was placed right infront of the speaker at 1 feet during Cantons test time, but by the time it reaches you in your sitting chair at 10 ft its long rolled off. They do have a nice bottom end too but I don't think I've heard it go sub bass....But mid bass...yes I'll tell ya I've felt bass into my chest with certain Jazz notes and symphony passages. Im not talking about rap shaking bass or movie explossions...with mid bass you dont hear that, but you do feel it in you chest at times.

Also, I am not saying Cantons are the best speaker company in the world. But I do think they are in that category and have a certain sound that's very appealing to lots of audiophiles. One guy on another forum said Germans don't know how to make speakers....boy was he wrong. German speakers are in the top speakers in the world. I dont think he even knows what mbl speakers are. And Canton is one of those companies that can make a very good speaker. Just so you know, German speakers are voiced differenctly than British speakers especially in the upper mids and tweeters. They have more sparkle to the sound rather than a British speaker which may have a glorious rich mid section. Is that bad? No not at all, I know countless people who love the BBC speakers for what they can do....we are all different and we all know what we like. For me Canton with what they do is for me....its my cup of tea!

A few more shots...

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[imghttp://img268.imageshack.us/img268/5964/pict0159aa.jpg

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Grills

[img]http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/6166/pict0158a.jpg

[img]http://img440.imageshack.us/img440/5361/pict0160f.jpg

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Originally Posted by RGA

Canton was one of my finalists in my speaker hunt and performed well with tube amplifiers. The Audio Note AX Two ended up winning from my list of finalists.

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RGA...its funny you should say that it performs well with tube gear. I dont know why they allow me to hear more of that tube goodness as opposed to my previous speakers. These speakers seem to respond to electronic changes more so than anything I've heard. After listening to them at the dealers house with his SS for about 2 hours, and then hooking them up to the tubes, the change from SS to tubes was very very much noticeable right off the bat. I guess thats the way its suppose to be. But with my old speakers that simply was not the case. The Vento are so transparent.

Before with my old Cantons, I really could not hear when the tubes where nice and warm....you know when you can listen and hear the tubes when its at its peak and the music sounds so good? Well with the old speakers I did not notice that, but with the Vento's I can tell when the tubes are nice and ripe because the music really takes on that special tone where you feel it....it becomes very romantic and the mids in my opinion becomes outstanding.

Which Canton did you listen too?

I heard a couple of different ones but I did not write down the model numbers - I may go out there today and I can look at them again - or later in the week as I need to get a stereo stand or such platforms anyway.

Late to the party here Frenchmon but wanted to say congrats on the Cantons!

When I upgrade speakers I was thinking Vapor Breeze but these just got added to the list. Glowing review from you and I know you have a discerning ear.

Since Vapor is in your neck of the woods I may have to work an invite from you to hear these if I can find time to make it over there this summer. I'll bring the Jasmine if I do.

And they are lookers too! Love that high gloss cherry. My Energy RC's and all the tables in the Man Cave are all cherry so those would fit right in.

A pair of those and a 2M Black and I could be set for a long time.

Thanks...cool let me know.

Unfortunately the Cantons were sold. Fortunately for the dealer of course - but it is not a Canton dealer - the store is both a second hand shop as well as a new equipment retailer. With 21 floors of dealer some are strictly second hand - some are strictly new and he seems to be both.

Oh well....at least you got too hear a pair.

...has some nice speaker kits it seems at reasonable pricing.

Speaker Kits

Some of the kits seem to good to be true. Like this one. Look at the kit compared to the assembled speakers

Peridot

Hi frenchmon,

what a nice, nice thread...sincere congratulation to Cantons, your comments, impressions, tests reveal you zeal here...

My Ventons still wait for a solid amplifier pair...

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Originally Posted by vlastoc

Hi frenchmon,

what a nice, nice thread...sincere congratulation to Cantons, your comments, impressions, tests reveal you zeal here...

My Ventons still wait for a solid amplifier pair...

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Hi vlastoc....long time no see. I posted on the Canton Forum at the other site. Man I have never heard a speaker play such beautiful music...on certain tunes my eyes water up because the sound is so good. The speakers really do get out of the way and disappear.

My Rotel amp does not do good at really low levels with the Vento's. Even though its 200 watts pushing 87d's, its enough for the Rotel to get warmer and not clear at micro levels. I did not have this problem with the Canton 403's which where 89db, but I think the Vento's just out class the Rotel. I have been thinking about a new amp....I know I am going to get a new one soon. I was really thinking about a Forte 3 amp, an old Nelson Pass designed amp, but I passed on it. I really do want a modern amp to push the Vento's so my search continues. Vincent has an amp out that list for $2400 and the first 20 watts are class A. I don't listen at really loud levels...I am pass my loud rock days, and have mellowed out, so that first 20 watts in class A is about all I will ever use....and it is what I need for the low level listening is what I need for those 2am listening sessions while wife is sleep. It will be great for the lows and highs of classical music. So I am really look hard at the Vincent SP-331MK ...dont have the money for a Nelson Pass. And don't know what his line of amps "First Watt" will be like driving 87db speakers in class A....have to talk to Poultry or E-stat about that

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Originally Posted by frenchmon

Hi vlastoc....long time no see. I posted on the Canton Forum at the other site. Man I have never heard a speaker play such beautiful music...on certain tunes my eyes water up because the sound is so good. The speakers really do get out of the way and disappear.

My Rotel amp does not do good at really low levels with the Vento's. Even though its 200 watts pushing 87d's, its enough for the Rotel to get warmer and not clear at micro levels. I did not have this problem with the Canton 403's which where 89db, but I think the Vento's just out class the Rotel. I have been thinking about a new amp....I know I am going to get a new one soon. I was really thinking about a Forte 3 amp, an old Nelson Pass designed amp, but I passed on it. I really do want a modern amp to push the Vento's so my search continues. Vincent has an amp out that list for $2400 and the first 20 watts are class A. I don't listen at really loud levels...I am pass my loud rock days, and have mellowed out, so that first 20 watts in class A is about all I will ever use....and it is what I need for the low level listening is what I need for those 2am listening sessions while wife is sleep. It will be great for the lows and highs of classical music. So I am really look hard at the Vincent SP-331MK ...dont have the money for a Nelson Pass. And don't know what his line of amps "First Watt" will be like driving 87db speakers in class A....have to talk to Poultry or E-stat about that

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yup, I read your comment at that forum, I also contributed and asked you about your amplifiers ...and you answered me here.

I'm a little surprised, about your Rotel, but on the other hand I understand you, I have the same feeling from my NAD's. But anyway, your tip - Vincent seems good partner, I've read about connection with integrated Vincent 234.

You prefer tubes, me Not, I don't mind more live, 'rocky' amplifier, with good dynamics, but not without quality.

I can imagine some AUDIONET SAM V2, or some digital amplifier...or NAD M3 :-P
Btw with Cantons they Japan brands very often, like Accuphase ...sure it's about the preferences...

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Originally Posted by vlastoc

yup, I read your comment at that forum, I also contributed and asked you about your amplifiers ...and you answered me here.

I'm a little surprised, about your Rotel, but on the other hand I understand you, I have the same feeling from my NAD's. But anyway, your tip - Vincent seems good partner, I've read about connection with integrated Vincent 234.

You prefer tubes, me Not, I don't mind more live, 'rocky' amplifier, with good dynamics, but not without quality.

I can imagine some AUDIONET SAM V2, or some digital amplifier...or NAD M3 :-P
Btw with Cantons they Japan brands very often, like Accuphase ...sure it's about the preferences...

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Its funny you should meantion Audionet. I was speaking with Canton and they use many amps in their test stations with their speakers and one brand they mentioned was the German brand Audionet! I would love to get that brand, but im afraid they are out of my range The one you speak of cost $4400 and that was a few years ago. I have not did any digging around to see if there is a dealer here in the states I cant afford it any way. Where are you located Germany?

What is it about tubes you dont like?

about tubes, sorry, wrong written, that I don't like them...I never owned tube amp, think they are expensive and also I don't prefer only mellow, smooth sound...that's just simply my felling

regarding the Audionet, now the price is not so high, I mean from second-hand and for run out models, but sure, still out of my price range...at this moment I can't buy any amp for more than 1000 €. Anyway, audionet products have a very high evaluations...at local forums or tests.
I live in small country Slovakia (not Slovenia :- )

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Originally Posted by vlastoc

about tubes, sorry, wrong written, that I don't like them...I never owned tube amp, think they are expensive and also I don't prefer only mellow, smooth sound...that's just simply my felling

regarding the Audionet, now the price is not so high, I mean from second-hand and for run out models, but sure, still out of my price range...at this moment I can't buy any amp for more than 1000 €. Anyway, audionet products have a very high evaluations...at local forums or tests.
I live in small country Slovakia (not Slovenia :- )

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Oh ok...Dont think tubes cant rock...because I have heard tubes rock. What you need is a hybrid amp. Those will rock as much as you need. How much is 1000 € in USD? You may need tubes...you have the old tweeter in your Vento 807 DC's which had a livelier tweeter than mine. Tubes would sound good with those speakers. Your speakers where released in 2005 at $3500 a pair. You would do good to get a better amp than the NAD which retails for 749.

Slavakia....wow that a long way from me. I bet you have some good audio shops there?

that's fine, they can rock, and sounds interesting about hybrids, I might consider that. I have one experience with Classe CAP 151 and Classe CD/DVD-1 and the sound was very smooth and very mellow, I lacked the dynamic, but detailed and controlled. I thought the reason is the amplifier, but later on found the big part of that sound is CD/DVD.
So I might ask friend to lend me his amp. again or one other friend has Classe 2100 integrated, I plan to demo my ventos with this amp., then I will really see, but you are totally right, my NAD's are not that quality partners (except of NAD masters).

I reconsidered the price mentioned before, pity, I can handle only with about 800eur, what is aprox. 1000$.

We have some shops and there are more in neighbor country Checz republic, but sometimes it's quite far for me to travel and you know they always pair Denons, Onkyo or Yamahas with Cantons...

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Originally Posted by vlastoc

that's fine, they can rock, and sounds interesting about hybrids, I might consider that. I have one experience with Classe CAP 151 and Classe CD/DVD-1 and the sound was very smooth and very mellow, I lacked the dynamic, but detailed and controlled. I thought the reason is the amplifier, but later on found the big part of that sound is CD/DVD.
So I might ask friend to lend me his amp. again or one other friend has Classe 2100 integrated, I plan to demo my ventos with this amp., then I will really see, but you are totally right, my NAD's are not that quality partners (except of NAD masters).

I reconsidered the price mentioned before, pity, I can handle only with about 800eur, what is aprox. 1000$.

We have some shops and there are more in neighbor country Checz republic, but sometimes it's quite far for me to travel and you know they always pair Denons, Onkyo or Yamahas with Cantons...

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Classe is a warm amp. But I don't think it lacks dynamic. You may want to speak to GlenB. He has Classe and likes them very much. As with all gear system matching is very important. But I would think the Vento you have would be good with Classe amps...the Classe Ca 200 which can be had now for about $1000-1500 should be a very good match for your speakers. I too looked at Classe, but decided on a hybrid amp.

Canton in general is the closest thing I've heard in a box speaker approach the openness of a planar. The new Vento is quite improved from prior models I've heard. Instruments are well defined and have a presence like you are there.

Hi frenchmon, pls, recommend some music/albums, which sound great through you Cantons ...

Everything...classics, Jazz, R&B, Blues, Trance....everything I've thrown at them sounds great..

Forgot you had those Cantons frenchmon. Lookin' really sharp.