Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 35
  1. #1
    Forum Regular
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Western Kentucky
    Posts
    151

    Broke Audiophile.......................

    Hello members I have a story for you. I used to manage a car audio shop and was quite fanatical about it. My passion burned even deeper leading me to home audio. So, at the time I got burned out in car audio and getting in to home audio a friend of mine suggested Paradigm speakers. He sold me exactly what I thought I wanted-a very modest home theater. For some reason I ended up buying a set of MTX floor standers as opposed to going all Paradigm. I know one big mistake after another-LOL!!!! Such is the life of an audiophile. Well, let me be the first to say I want better. So hear me out. Before buying what I did from my friend I did get the chance to do some extensive listening to the B&W 602 S3. I was amazed at the clarity and precision this speaker could produce. Nothing was harsh just very detailed and kinda laid-back. The problem is the B&W 602 S3 are $600 a pair. This is a little out of my budget. I also got to listen to the Paradigm line up including the mini v.3, monitor 3 v.3, studio 20 v.3, and the studio 40 v.3. In Particular, I really liked the studio series especially the 20's. However, they are out of my price range just like the B&W were. So, I looked at the monitor series a lil closer. The first thing I noticed was how much better the mini was with respect to the Titan. The monitor 3's were even better. Oh, I also got to listen to the monitor 7's v.3 and the monitor 11's v.3. I was not any more impressed with the towers as compared to the mini and the monitor 3's. Since my preference is a bit more on music than HT, I decided to go with the cc-170 v.3 as my center. The same day I was able to compare the the Polk rti6 against the mini v.3. It was close but did prefer the mini. However, Polks real wood veeneer was a nice touch. Then I read about the Ascend CBM-170. The reviews on this speaker are amazing and the flatness of the response curve is even more amazing. Many have said the CBM-170 is on par with the Studio 20's. At $328 a pair and offering that kind of performance has more than peaked my curiousity. I know I could just order a pair and try them but right now I just don't have that kind of money to throw around. Then the hassle and expense of sending them back if I am not satisfied is just not an option for me. The Ascend CBM-170 is in my price range. I have noticed that KEX and Woocifer have owned some of these products in the past and I am hoping they can share their experiences with the Paradigm vs Ascend products. Some people have mentioned that the Ascend CMT-340m is on par with the Paradigm Studio 40's. Just hope some members here can elaborate on that as well. I am thinking about buying a set of Studio 20's for my fronts, cc-370 since my preference is more on music than HT, and use my Titans v.3 that I already own for my rears. Do any of you feel this set-up will mesh well. Or, how about the Monitor 3's for fronts v.4, cc-370 v.4 for my center, and Titans in rear? Finally, if I go with Ascend maybe the CBM-170 for fronts, CMT-340c center, and use my Titans for my rears. Any thoughts/sugestions with respect to the Ascends. Thank you for your time. Please help if you can.
    Phil
    F: MTX AAL 212B Towers
    C: Paradigm CC-170 v.3
    R: Paradigm Titans v.3
    S: Paradigm PS-1000 v.4
    RCA 27" Widescreen HDTV w/DVI
    Z-Lines TV Stand
    Samsung HD DVD-841 w/DVI
    Yamaha RXV-650 95X7 rms and YPAO
    Esoteric Cables

  2. #2
    Forum Regular
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    Oshkosh, WI
    Posts
    82
    Try listening to a Tannoy Fusion 1 or if you can find one, an Mx-2. Great bang for buck

  3. #3
    Loving This kexodusc's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Location
    Department of Heuristics and Research on Material Applications
    Posts
    9,025
    I've heard only 1 Ascend acoustic system - it was with the small bookshelf speakers (170) and the 340 matching center channel.

    I've got to admit, this is a 3rd example I can think of where another "factory direct" company seems to really be standing out from the crowd. I've always been skeptical of claims like "speaker x sounds better than speaker Y that costs 3 times as much". I'm starting to become a believer...and I'm not typically an easy sell. Ascend keeps it pretty simpe - quality drivers and crosssover components...solid cabients, simple, inexpensive finish, and simple designs with no gimmicks. This is a GOOD thing IMO.

    First thing I noticed was the tweeter wasn't the same...the 170 uses a 1" Audax tweeter with neodymium magnet...pretty decent inexpensive tweeter, not as good as the other 1" tweeter in the 340's which in fact it was considerably different (costing double, and by all accounts I've heard worth every penny). Could be annoying in some situations, but the system sounded good. Ascend uses some very good quality Audax woofers in their speakers. The CMT-340 is a pretty decent center channel, wish I could have heard it in stereo.

    I've heard other speakers that use the Audax Aerogel woofers..they are quite good and easily on par with my Studio 40's. I honestly believe the CMT-340's could very well be as good or better than my Studio 40's. If not, certainly close, and likely a much better value.

    Putting the 170's on par with the Studio 20's might be a bit of a stretch, but again I think it would be close - too bad it didn't have the better tweeter. It also doesn't have the low bass response but I know that woofer quite well and it's midrange is quite good.

    This being said, I expect it to easily outperform the Mini-Monitors I use to own.

    Competition in the $200-$1200 range is really getting heavy thanks to all these "factory direct" speakers. I'd like to hear more Swan and Rockets too.

    oddeoowphil38: If you don't have $550 for the CMT-340 you could build "clones" of these for considerably less...even if you bought pre-finished (and nicer looking, better quality cabinets) you'd still be up over $100 using the same drivers. If you or someone you know could build your own cabinets, you could finish these for under $300 in parts, less than the price of a pair of 170's.

    Or use the woofer and the better tweeter in instead of the 170's and finish those for under $200.

    You might check with Poneal in the Tweaks, Mods, and DIY forum...he has a few designs using the Audax aerogel woofers with some Morel tweeters that are better than the tweeters in the Ascends.

    Whatever you do, you'll need a subwoofer as the Audax woofers are generally known for the midrange performance and have weaker bass response than some other mid-woofers that size.

  4. #4
    Big science. Hallelujah. noddin0ff's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    X
    Posts
    2,286
    Quote Originally Posted by oddeoowphil38
    I am thinking about buying a set of Studio 20's for my fronts, cc-370 since my preference is more on music than HT, and use my Titans v.3 that I already own for my rears. Do any of you feel this set-up will mesh well. Phil
    You pretty much described my set up (except CC-470). I'm happy with it. my 20's are v.2 and my CC is v.3. I notice a slight slight difference in the high end. Not enough to notice in HT applications. I generally listen to music in 2-channel so again not an issue. Sometimes I wish there was more oomph in the rears, but not wishing enough to shell out for an upgrade. Minimons would be nice in the rear though... It all meshes very well.

  5. #5
    Forum Regular
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Syracuse, NY
    Posts
    36
    Quote Originally Posted by kexodusc
    If you don't have $550 for the CMT-340 you could build "clones" of these for considerably less...even if you bought pre-finished (and nicer looking, better quality cabinets) you'd still be up over $100 using the same drivers.
    .

    The Audex drivers in the the Ascend's are proprietary and not available commercially. There are Audex Aerogel drivers available but they are not the same. I recommend you contact Dave or James at Ascend to get some very useful information.

    custservice@ascendacoustics.com

    and/or stop by the Ascend Forum at:

    http://forum.ascendacoustics.com/

    I auditioned the Studio 40's in my home before I auditioned the 340's. I would have been happy with either but I did prefer the 340's in all aspects except bass extention. With the sub hooked up the bass was similar. My wallet couldn't have been happier with my decision.

    David

  6. #6
    Shostakovich fan Feanor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Location
    London, Ontario
    Posts
    8,127

    One wonders

    Quote Originally Posted by bikeman
    The Audex drivers in the the Ascend's are proprietary and not available commercially. There are Audex Aerogel drivers available but they are not the same. I recommend you contact Dave or James at Ascend to get some very useful information.

    custservice@ascendacoustics.com

    and/or stop by the Ascend Forum at:

    http://forum.ascendacoustics.com/

    ...
    Most speaker makers insist that their OEM provider's product is customized especially for them. While this is presumably true, one wonders how extensively in fact, these customizations really are. In some cases -- my cynical nature suspects -- the changes are purely cosmetic.

  7. #7
    Forum Regular
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Syracuse, NY
    Posts
    36
    Quote Originally Posted by Feanor
    In some cases -- my cynical nature suspects -- the changes are purely cosmetic.
    In some cases, you'd no doubt be right. I've gotten to know Dave Fabrikant over the past year and half and I'd be very surprised if his changes were "purely cosmetic." It's just not his nature.

    David

  8. #8
    IRG
    IRG is offline
    Forum Regular IRG's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Location
    Upstate
    Posts
    379

    Mixing up Ascend and Aperion

    Quote Originally Posted by kexodusc
    I've heard only 1 Ascend acoustic system - it was with the small bookshelf speakers (170) and the 340 matching center channel.

    I've got to admit, this is a 3rd example I can think of where another "factory direct" company seems to really be standing out from the crowd. I've always been skeptical of claims like "speaker x sounds better than speaker Y that costs 3 times as much". I'm starting to become a believer...and I'm not typically an easy sell. Ascend keeps it pretty simpe - quality drivers and crosssover components...solid cabients, simple, inexpensive finish, and simple designs with no gimmicks. This is a GOOD thing IMO.

    First thing I noticed was the tweeter wasn't the same...the 170 uses a 1" Audax tweeter with neodymium magnet...pretty decent inexpensive tweeter, not as good as the other 1" tweeter in the 340's which in fact it was considerably different (costing double, and by all accounts I've heard worth every penny). Could be annoying in some situations, but the system sounded good. Ascend uses some very good quality Audax woofers in their speakers. The CMT-340 is a pretty decent center channel, wish I could have heard it in stereo.

    I've heard other speakers that use the Audax Aerogel woofers..they are quite good and easily on par with my Studio 40's. I honestly believe the CMT-340's could very well be as good or better than my Studio 40's. If not, certainly close, and likely a much better value.

    Putting the 170's on par with the Studio 20's might be a bit of a stretch, but again I think it would be close - too bad it didn't have the better tweeter. It also doesn't have the low bass response but I know that woofer quite well and it's midrange is quite good.

    This being said, I expect it to easily outperform the Mini-Monitors I use to own.

    Competition in the $200-$1200 range is really getting heavy thanks to all these "factory direct" speakers. I'd like to hear more Swan and Rockets too.

    oddeoowphil38: If you don't have $550 for the CMT-340 you could build "clones" of these for considerably less...even if you bought pre-finished (and nicer looking, better quality cabinets) you'd still be up over $100 using the same drivers. If you or someone you know could build your own cabinets, you could finish these for under $300 in parts, less than the price of a pair of 170's.

    Or use the woofer and the better tweeter in instead of the 170's and finish those for under $200.

    You might check with Poneal in the Tweaks, Mods, and DIY forum...he has a few designs using the Audax aerogel woofers with some Morel tweeters that are better than the tweeters in the Ascends.

    Whatever you do, you'll need a subwoofer as the Audax woofers are generally known for the midrange performance and have weaker bass response than some other mid-woofers that size.
    Didn't Ascend Acoustics become Aperion? I see they each have their own websites and products now. Maybe I am confusing them and they were never related. Which is supposed to be better the Aperion 632 or the Ascend 340? I like the looks of the 632 - not many reviews compared to their 522 speakers.

    Still, I like the Paradigm Monitor 3's I picked up, and the great thing about them when and if I want to sell them in a year or so, I can easily get back most of my money from them. Not too many speakers can do that, in addition to providing great sound while you keep them! I didn't audition both speakers in my home, but at the dealer, there was some material I prefered the Monitor 3 to over the Ref.20v4. The 20s were better on classical and acoustic music, but they seemed too heavy for rock. Maybe if you didn't have a subwoofer this would be preferred. I wish the classed up the Ref series a little more. I really thought the rubber tops didn't look that great. The Aperion 632 in photos is a sharp looking speaker. Maybe next year (after the sub!).

  9. #9
    Forum Regular
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Syracuse, NY
    Posts
    36
    Quote Originally Posted by IRG
    Didn't Ascend Acoustics become Aperion?
    Never related.

    David

  10. #10
    Silence of the spam Site Moderator Geoffcin's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    NY
    Posts
    3,326

    Two different companies

    Quote Originally Posted by IRG
    Didn't Ascend Acoustics become Aperion? I see they each have their own websites and products now. Maybe I am confusing them and they were never related. Which is supposed to be better the Aperion 632 or the Ascend 340? I like the looks of the 632 - not many reviews compared to their 522 speakers.
    Ascend makes standmount speakers, and sells Hsu subs, while Aperion sells standmounts, towers, and their own subs.

    I got a chance to listen to a 5.1 setup of Aperions new Intimus 6-Series speakers, and I came away impressed enough to want to hear more. A set of them will be here by next week.

    I coudn't tell you which sounds better, only that the Aperion 632 that I heard was pretty darn good in the 5.1 setup that they had at HE2005. I'l post more after they arrive.
    Audio;
    Ming Da MC34-AB 75wpc
    PS Audio Classic 250. 500wpc into 4 ohms.
    PS Audio 4.5 preamp,
    Marantz 6170 TT Shure M97e cart.
    Arcam Alpha 9 CD.- 24 bit dCS Ring DAC.
    Magnepan 3.6r speakers Oak/black,

  11. #11
    Loving This kexodusc's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Location
    Department of Heuristics and Research on Material Applications
    Posts
    9,025
    Quote Originally Posted by bikeman
    The Audex drivers in the the Ascend's are proprietary and not available commercially. There are Audex Aerogel drivers available but they are not the same. I recommend you contact Dave or James at Ascend to get some very useful information.

    custservice@ascendacoustics.com

    and/or stop by the Ascend Forum at:

    http://forum.ascendacoustics.com/

    I auditioned the Studio 40's in my home before I auditioned the 340's. I would have been happy with either but I did prefer the 340's in all aspects except bass extention. With the sub hooked up the bass was similar. My wallet couldn't have been happier with my decision.

    David
    You are correct that the Audax drivers aren't available commercially...Audax is pulling out of that saturated market and selling licenses to their drivers.

    DIY-ers have been comparing these so-called "Proprietary Drivers" manufacturs claim for years now. In some cases there are signficant differences...in others there isn't. Often you'll see a face plate, decal, or magnet shield added to a driver. As has been said (and admitted to by designers and driver manufacturers in many examples) the customizations are often cosmetic. In many cases, the "customized" drivers actually perform poorer than the OEM version, the buyer asking for shortcuts.

    Ascends drivers do have a few slight mods to them, I don't doubt this. They probably enhance the performance or reduce the cost, a benefit either way. Looking at Ascend's own claims about their speakers and the many other Audax designs that use these drivers (okay the carbon copy commercial drivers), I'm lead to believe there aren't many differences. You can buy Audax kits for cheaper that boast superior performance.

  12. #12
    Forum Regular
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Syracuse, NY
    Posts
    36
    Quote Originally Posted by kexodusc
    You are correct that the Audax drivers aren't available commercially...Audax is pulling out of that saturated market and selling licenses to their drivers.

    DIY-ers have been comparing these so-called "Proprietary Drivers" manufacturs claim for years now. In some cases there are signficant differences...in others there isn't. Often you'll see a face plate, decal, or magnet shield added to a driver. As has been said (and admitted to by designers and driver manufacturers in many examples) the customizations are often cosmetic. In many cases, the "customized" drivers actually perform poorer than the OEM version, the buyer asking for shortcuts.

    Ascends drivers do have a few slight mods to them, I don't doubt this. They probably enhance the performance or reduce the cost, a benefit either way. Looking at Ascend's own claims about their speakers and the many other Audax designs that use these drivers (okay the carbon copy commercial drivers), I'm lead to believe there aren't many differences. You can buy Audax kits for cheaper that boast superior performance.
    You're stating a very biasd opinion and it's not one that I find much credibility with. My response has been specifically about Ascend speakers. You have been painting with a very broad brush but you don't know anything about Ascend or Audex's contract with Ascend. That you know nothing about this is a fact, not opinion.
    That you can buy Audax kits cheaper dosen't mean squat. You can't buy the Ascend kits at any price. The crossover, the most important part of all isn't made by Audex so the Audex kit would be useless in making 340 "clones." That's not my opinion either. It's a fact. Have you ever had a conversation with Dave Fabrikant? It would do you a world of good.

    David

  13. #13
    Forum Regular
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Western Kentucky
    Posts
    151
    Thanks for the info. If you dont mind how much did you give for the cc-470? I cant even find an msrp on it. You dont seem to like the Titans in the rear so why do you feel like the mini's would be much better? Have you ever heard the cc-370? If so is the cc-470 really that much better. I am seriously thinking about using the 20's v.4 for my fronts, cc-370 v.4 for my center, and use the Titans v.3 i already own for my rears. How do you feel this would mesh? I am like you my preference in on music so I thought the cc-370 would work fine and to me the rears dont make that much of a difference as long as you use sometthing decent such as the Titans. I may go ahead and get a set of the mini's v.4 and use the Titans for rear surrounds(7.1). That may work for me since my preferences are on music mainly in stereo while using my sub. Anyways, get back to me as soon as you can.
    Phil

  14. #14
    Loving This kexodusc's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Location
    Department of Heuristics and Research on Material Applications
    Posts
    9,025
    Quote Originally Posted by bikeman
    You're stating a very biasd opinion and it's not one that I find much credibility with.
    Geez, someone got pretty defensive here...
    Calm down, I have no intention of having a flame-war here.

    Quote Originally Posted by bikeman
    My response has been specifically about Ascend speakers. You have been painting with a very broad brush but you don't know anything about Ascend or Audex's contract with Ascend. That you know nothing about this is a fact, not opinion.
    Dave, I know quite a bit more than "nothing". True I don't know the exact details of Audax's contract with Ascend, by I absolutely don't have to. I've seen more than several examples of "proprietary drivers" and experienced first-hand that sometimes these proprietary drivers share the exact same part number as OEM drivers...Sometimes they are modded heavily sometimes not at all. It doesn't take a genius to put 2 + 2 together, David. Take a look at the specs of the Audax drivers, some of the dozens of highly-praised Audax designs, and then look at Ascend's designs measurements. If these aren't Audax drivers, then it's just a fantastic coincidence or the Audax 6.5" Aerogel and tweeter which look exactly the same in the Ascend design were a heavy inspiration.. A little too close for coincidence if you ask me. Sure there's some variances, but they're pretty darn close. That was my point. I've heard Ascend speakers and other Audax speaker designs. I'm not just shooting my mouth off ignorantly here.

    In fact, if you actually read my post you'll see I mentioned that I fully expected Ascend to have made some improvements to the stock Audax drivers. Geez. Do you own stock or something? Exactly which of us is biased?

    Quote Originally Posted by bikeman
    That you can buy Audax kits cheaper dosen't mean squat. You can't buy the Ascend kits at any price.
    True the price doesn't mean a whole lot on its own, the better performance claims do though.
    Quote Originally Posted by bikeman
    The crossover, the most important part of all isn't made by Audex so the Audex kit would be useless in making 340 "clones." That's not my opinion either. It's a fact.
    Forget the fact that you are ignoring the high possibility that the Ascend crossover could be improved or better, I'll forgive you for your ignorance here. "Cloning" is a rather common term in the DIY community - many commercial designs are "cloned" by either buying the same drivers if available, or the aftermarket equivalents and trying as hard as possible to reproduce the original. You find out the cabinet dimensions, (5/8" MDF), the crossover point if given, etc, and go from there This is done quite a bit. Sometimes the results are better, sometimes the same, sometimes worse. If done with care you should end up with a good speaker regardless of how they compare to the original!

    I don't use the word "clone" to imply you can copy the exact "soul" of the original Ascend speakers...Think of my suggestion as nothing more than another, cheaper option to the original poster that would provide similar sound at a better price for someone who had more time to spare than money...nothing more than an option...what the hell are you so upset about here? Relax, guy.

    Quote Originally Posted by bikeman
    Have you ever had a conversation with Dave Fabrikant? It would do you a world of good.
    David
    As someone who was quick to question my "credibility", let me challenge you on this - why would anyone believe that Ascend's design is superior to that of another design without hearing both? Have you heard other Audax designs? I have.

    Two more words you seem to like to use are "opinion" and "fact".

    Here's a fact for you...I find it hilarious that you won't accept my opinion, the opinion of an unbiased, neutral, 3rd party hobbyist with no vested interest or money whatsoever into another person's decision to buy a speaker system for their personal use -but you'll willingly accept the opinion of Dave Fabrikant, when the fact is he's a person who has an admittedly biased and vested interest in his company and a desire to make a profit by selling the Ascend speaker design.

    If either of us is likely to be biased towards Ascend or not, let me ask you, who do you think it would be?

    Tell me now, you called me biased...towards what exactly? I would point out again, that I had nothing but very good things to say about Ascend in this thread. But the minute I presented the possibility that there could be even the possibility of a slightly better option out there (or at least a cheaper, comparable one) you saw fit to question my credibility?

    Tell me now, which of us needs "a world of good"?

  15. #15
    Loving This kexodusc's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Location
    Department of Heuristics and Research on Material Applications
    Posts
    9,025
    Quote Originally Posted by oddeoowphil38
    Thanks for the info. If you dont mind how much did you give for the cc-470? I cant even find an msrp on it. You dont seem to like the Titans in the rear so why do you feel like the mini's would be much better? Have you ever heard the cc-370? If so is the cc-470 really that much better. I am seriously thinking about using the 20's v.4 for my fronts, cc-370 v.4 for my center, and use the Titans v.3 i already own for my rears. How do you feel this would mesh? I am like you my preference in on music so I thought the cc-370 would work fine and to me the rears dont make that much of a difference as long as you use sometthing decent such as the Titans. I may go ahead and get a set of the mini's v.4 and use the Titans for rear surrounds(7.1). That may work for me since my preferences are on music mainly in stereo while using my sub. Anyways, get back to me as soon as you can.
    Phil
    Phil, whatever you do, I cannot stress strongly enough that the center channel should be as closely matched to the main speakers as possible. I've owned both the CC-370 (although very briefly) and the older Studio CC center channel. The 470 really is a better speaker, but forget that...it's a much better center channel for the Studio 20's than the CC-370!!!
    Phil, why not try to find the Studio 20's and CC-470 or Studio Center Channel used to save some money. If the product hasn't been damaged, it should perform as well as it did brand new.
    If you aren't up for this, I really think you'd be better off running the Studio 20's in Phantom center mode, while saving the extra money for the matching center channel. Mixed speakers can work, but for best results, at the minimum, the front three speakers should be as close as possible.

  16. #16
    Forum Regular
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Syracuse, NY
    Posts
    36
    "Geez, someone got pretty defensive here...
    Calm down, I have no intention of having a flame-war here."

    You responded specifically to my post. You don't know squat about the company or the designer. That's a fact. The rest of this is speculation cloaked in pseudo authority.

    "Dave, I know quite a bit more than "nothing"."

    And that's why you're extrapolating in an area you have no first hand knowledge of.


    "True I don't know the exact details of Audax's contract with Ascend, by I absolutely don't have to."

    Correct. You don't know ANY of the details, let alone exact.

    I've seen more than several examples of "proprietary drivers" and experienced first-hand that sometimes these proprietary drivers share the exact same part number as OEM drivers...Sometimes they are modded heavily sometimes not at all. It doesn't take a genius to put 2 + 2 together, David

    You're not adding 2 + 2. You're adding apples and oranges and getting apples.

    "Take a look at the specs of the Audax drivers, some of the dozens of highly-praised Audax designs, and then look at Ascend's designs measurements. If these aren't Audax drivers, then it's just a fantastic coincidence or the Audax 6.5" Aerogel and tweeter which look exactly the same in the Ascend design were a heavy inspiration."

    Your position is so weak that now you're making stuff up. Find where I said these were not Audex.

    "A little too close for coincidence if you ask me."

    Nobody asked you because it's not a point of contention. Don't make up arguments.

    "Sure there's some variances, but they're pretty darn close. That was my point."

    That is not your point.

    " I've heard Ascend speakers and other Audax speaker designs. I'm not just shooting my mouth off ignorantly here."

    You don't THINK you are. That's different.

    In fact, if you actually read my post you'll see I mentioned that I fully expected Ascend to have made some improvements to the stock Audax drivers. Geez. Do you own stock or something? Exactly which of us is biased?

    Everyone is biased. Netrality only exists in ignorance.

    "True the price doesn't mean a whole lot on its own, the better performance claims do though."

    What claims? Be specific.

    Forget the fact that you are ignoring the high possibility that the Ascend crossover could be improved or better,

    Another argument that's completely made up. Again, please show where I have said that the product can't be improved.

    " I'll forgive you for your ignorance here."

    And I'll forgive you. Now let's get back to reality.

    " "Cloning" is a rather common term in the DIY community - many commercial designs are "cloned" by either buying the same drivers if available, or the aftermarket equivalents and trying as hard as possible to reproduce the original."

    You're not in a DIY forum. It's better to use the English verision that slang. Then everyone is on the same page.

    You find out the cabinet dimensions, (5/8" MDF), the crossover point if given, etc, and go from there This is done quite a bit. Sometimes the results are better, sometimes the same, sometimes worse. If done with care you should end up with a good speaker regardless of how they compare to the original!

    Not a point of contention so I'm not sure why you've added yet another layer to the discussion.

    I don't use the word "clone" to imply you can copy the exact "soul" of the original Ascend speakers...Think of my suggestion as nothing more than another, cheaper option to the original poster that would provide similar sound at a better price for someone who had more time to spare than money...nothing more than an option...what the hell are you so upset about here? Relax, guy.

    "I don't relax when someone takes what I said and makes something completely different out of it. I take that personally. It has nothing to do with the subject. You've made up arguments that I've never expressed. You'd loose a formal debate with that tactic all by itself."

    "As someone who was quick to question my "credibility", let me challenge you on this - why would anyone believe that Ascend's design is superior to that of another design without hearing both?"

    Where did I make this argument? One or both of us has serious comprehension problems.

    "Have you heard other Audax designs? I have."

    What does that have to do with anything?

    Two more words you seem to like to use are "opinion" and "fact".

    "Here's a fact for you...I find it hilarious that you won't accept my opinion, the opinion of an unbiased, neutral, 3rd party hobbyist with no vested interest or money whatsoever into another person's decision to buy a speaker system for their personal use"

    You have a deeply vested interest in your opinion. You're anything but neutral about your opinion.

    "-but you'll willingly accept the opinion of Dave Fabrikant, when the fact is he's a person who has an admittedly biased and vested interest in his company and a desire to make a profit by selling the Ascend speaker design."

    As I've asked earlier. Why don't you give him a call. Compare resumes, experience and methods and get back to us. Or don't get back to us. Just do it for your own education.


    "If either of us is likely to be biased towards Ascend or not, let me ask you, who do you think it would be?"

    Who cares. We're all biased.

    "Tell me now, you called me biased...towards what exactly?"

    Everything. Take a psychology course. We all have experience.. That creates bias whether we're conscious of it or not.

    " I would point out again, that I had nothing but very good things to say about Ascend in this thread."

    So what? If you hadn't used my post to respond to and just posted your opinion, we wouldn't be here. The subject is my post. It's personal.

    " But the minute I presented the possibility that there could be even the possibility of a slightly better option out there (or at least a cheaper, comparable one)"

    Again, where did I present this argument?

    " you saw fit to question my credibility?"

    Correct. You have treated me very poorly in this debate. Credible people don't make things up and ascribe it to others.

    "Tell me now, which of us needs "a world of good"?"

    Not which of us. Both of us.

    David

  17. #17
    Loving This kexodusc's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Location
    Department of Heuristics and Research on Material Applications
    Posts
    9,025
    Dave, I politely ask you to re-read this thread again. I've seen your hundreds of posts at the Ascend forum and I appreciate your passion of the speakers, but not once did I ever personally attack you or your precious speakers.

    Your following comments worry me:
    Quote Originally Posted by bikeman
    You responded specifically to my post.
    And
    Quote Originally Posted by bikeman
    So what? If you hadn't used my post to respond to and just posted your opinion, we wouldn't be here. The subject is my post. It's personal.
    I don't know how the forum works at Ascend, but the forum rules here are such that once you post, the post becomes public and anyone may respond. Replying to you and using quotations are not by themselves a personal attack. Replying to your post without the intent to insult is not an attack against you personally, and for you to think so is quite honestly, a bit paranoid. I use paranoid to insult, but to describe.

    Quote Originally Posted by bikeman
    What claims? Be specific.
    Since you asked:
    If you really want to know, you PM me and I'll send you a few links to Audax kits designed by Joe D'Appolito - the designer credited with the alignment Ascend is ripping-off with the 340's - not to mention eerily similar looking designs using eerily similar drivers (again speculation on my part, but looks are looks - coincidence? maybe) that can be built for under $700. These have been available for over 4 years. Specs: +1.6/-0 dB 100 Hz to 20KHz, with bass extension to 55 Hz...not opinion...fact. That's 1/3 the variance of a more expensive Ascend system and more bass response. A VERY impressive speaker for the money, and in my opinion much better sounding than the Ascends I've heard.

    Quote Originally Posted by bikeman
    You'd loose a formal debate with that tactic all by itself."
    I don't care...Reality check: this isn't a formal debate, this isn't some university debating circuit. It's an internet forum. And what the hell are you debating about? I haven't attacked you or your beloved speakers at all yet.
    Quote Originally Posted by bikeman
    As I've asked earlier. Why don't you give him a call. Compare resumes, experience and methods and get back to us. Or don't get back to us. Just do it for your own education.
    I have e-mailed him and if I receive a reply with any useful information I'll be sure to share it. Thanks. Perhaps you can help with some specific questions I should be asking?
    Quote Originally Posted by bikeman
    Correct. You have treated me very poorly in this debate. Credible people don't make things up and ascribe it to others.
    I consider myself a responsible poster here. I've reviewed this thread, and absolutely nowhere did I attack you personally without prior provocation on your part (ie: questioning my credibility among others) or in direct refutation to your comments. I respectfully ask you to show me one example where I have.
    Your doing so will result in my formal apology to you here in the forums.
    Your failure to do so will result in my asking you for a similar public apology for what will turn out to be lies on your part.

    Thanks,

  18. #18
    Silence of the spam Site Moderator Geoffcin's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    NY
    Posts
    3,326

    Break time!

    I really don't see where this thread went off, but I think we should get back to the question at hand.

    oddeoowphil38 is trying to make an informed decision on what he's going to do with his HT setup, specifially regarding his unique problem with matching these speakers. Anyone got some constructive advice?
    Audio;
    Ming Da MC34-AB 75wpc
    PS Audio Classic 250. 500wpc into 4 ohms.
    PS Audio 4.5 preamp,
    Marantz 6170 TT Shure M97e cart.
    Arcam Alpha 9 CD.- 24 bit dCS Ring DAC.
    Magnepan 3.6r speakers Oak/black,

  19. #19
    Forum Regular
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Western Kentucky
    Posts
    151
    Thanks Geoffcin I could not have said it better myself. Come on people surely there are others out there with some thoughts. Take a few minutes and speak it. I am surprised woocifer has not voiced his opinion. His advice like many others has been helpful in the past.

  20. #20
    Forum Regular thepogue's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Location
    Hayes, Va
    Posts
    490

    I think anytime anyone thinks....

    one particular component or speaker is the "end all"...they become overly defensive and lose perspective.... even after 35 posts..oh..sorry..did I say that?


    Peace, Pogue
    • Mark Levinson No. 27
    • Musical Fidelity 308cr
    • Martin Logan Prodigy's
    • Ariel Acoustics 10-T
    • Rega Planet CD
    • CJ Premier 9 DAC
    • Linn LP12 - Basik Plus - Valhalla
    • Benz Micro Cart.
    • Akai GX 747 Reel to Reel
    • Straight Wire Virtuoso Interconnects

  21. #21
    Forum Regular
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Syracuse, NY
    Posts
    36
    Quote Originally Posted by thepogue
    one particular component or speaker is the "end all"...they become overly defensive and lose perspective.... even after 35 posts..oh..sorry..did I say that?
    Peace, Pogue

    I apologize for this. I've never made the premise. kexodusc has made so many misrepresntations that it's become difficult to answer all of them. I've asked that he address earlier misrepresentations and all he's done is add more. Again, I apologize.

    David

  22. #22
    Forum Regular
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Posts
    55
    I owned the CBM-170's for about a year, and i personally think they are overrated. Sure, they are a good speaker for the $328.00 you pay for a new pair, but they are nowhere near quality 1k speakers.

    PSB Stratus Mini's ( not that much more used than Ascends new) are the speakers i replaced the Ascends with, and they absolutely STOMP them in everyway, much more musical, more ambience, better decay and overall just more enjoyable.

    With the Ascends I always had the feeling that i was listening to the speakers rather than the music. They were too "analytical" for me and just never let me enjoy the music.

    Dont get me wrong, they are good speakers for the money but I think reviewers are out place when they compare them with 1k-2k speakers.

    If you get a pair at home for audition id suggest getting a couple pairs of other speakers, maybe whatever else your interested in , or even some Audio Note's ( they have a $550.00 model that is suppose to be very good, and if i were to try out any speaker company right now this is what id like to hear).

  23. #23
    Forum Regular
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Western Kentucky
    Posts
    151
    Dave, no problem. I am still giving Ascend a very good consideration and you have been very helpful in answering my Ascend questions. No apology really needed. Have a good evening.
    Phil
    F: MTX AAL 212B Towers
    C: Paradigm CC-170 v.3
    R: Paradigm Titans v.3
    S: Paradigm PS-1000 v.4
    RCA 27" Widescreen HDTV w/DVI
    Z-Lines TV Stand
    Samsung HD DVD-841 w/DVI
    Yamaha RXV-650 95X7 rms and YPAO
    Esoteric Cables

  24. #24
    Forum Regular
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Western Kentucky
    Posts
    151
    Thanks Dave for the info but have you ever heard the Paradigm Studio 20's? How do you feel the 170's compared to the 20's? I am not concerned about the 170's lacking in bass extension but rather more concerned with the SIZE of the sound stage the 170 put out. That is, is it a wide and airy as the Studio 20's? This is what I really need to know. I also understand the 20's have a better tweeter and image a little better but once again I am not overly concerned there as well. If you know of any other speakers the 170's are more comparable to please let me know because I have no experience with PSB---although I have heard nothing but good things. Thanks once again.
    Phil

  25. #25
    Forum Regular
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Posts
    55
    Hey Phil,

    Sorry, no I haven't heard the Studio 20's, but from what Iv'e read they are similiar to the Stratus Mini, although they might be on the brighter side.

    Another member of this site, Pat D, who also owns the PSB's has heard the Studio 20's and could help you more than I could.

    As far as soundstage is concerned, this is another thing the PSB's were better at. However, the Ascends did put out a good stage and image, it just wasnt as wide. When listening to music this doesnt really make that much of a difference, id be more concerned about how musically enjoyable a speaker is and whether or not its bright , boomy or whatever. For movies it might be different though as you would be able to pinpoint the actors on stage better.

    The only other speakers ive heard in this price range were some Athenas at Best Buy, a few different B&W models and i did own some $249.00 PSB image 2b's.

    B&W sounded most alike to the Ascends, but with a little more bass and a different ( crisper ) high end.

    The Image 2b's werent as accurate, and were somewhat brighter, but for music id take these over the Ascends. They did have some resonance issues though.

    Athena's, well i heard them for a very short time and in a bad enviroment so im not going to comment on these.

Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. Free audiophile auction site...
    By morrowaudio in forum General Audio
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 12-30-2004, 01:05 PM
  2. Yamaha rx-v630 base or stands broke. Help!
    By borismaster in forum The Audio Lab, Tweaks, Mods, DIY
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 05-27-2004, 04:56 AM
  3. FREE Audiophile Auction Site
    By morrowaudio in forum General Audio
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 01-04-2004, 07:02 PM
  4. Replies: 25
    Last Post: 12-10-2003, 10:55 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •