Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 26
  1. #1
    Forum Regular
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Location
    Chicago
    Posts
    583

    Why do people act like audiophile is a four letter word?

    I don't mean just on this page. It seems that a lot of people have something against Audiophiles. I'm just wondering why?

  2. #2
    Forum Regular 46minaudio's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2001
    Location
    NC
    Posts
    290
    Define Audiophile.Bturk it seems we all have a different meaning for the word audiophile..

  3. #3
    Forum Regular TinHere's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Location
    L.I., NY
    Posts
    288
    Quote Originally Posted by 46minaudio
    Define Audiophile.Bturk it seems we all have a different meaning for the word audiophile..
    Audiophile...Someone with better gear than you love, and still isn't happy with it.
    TinHere

    Enjoying a virtual life.

  4. #4
    DMK
    DMK is offline
    Forum Regular
    Join Date
    Dec 2001
    Posts
    332
    Quote Originally Posted by bturk667
    I don't mean just on this page. It seems that a lot of people have something against Audiophiles. I'm just wondering why?
    Because the term "audiophile" has become synonymous with someone who obsessively upgrades his gear with each new product that comes out, sells the gear he's loved for years when one of the audio rags pans it (if they ever do!), spends inordinate sums of money on cables, tweaks and other items of dubious value, who takes everything he hears at face value without trying to understand what might be causing the change, and who often cares more about his equipment than his music.

    I find this to be the case with some audiophiles but I consider an audiophile as someone who cares about sound quality and stives in a reasonable way to make his home playback system sound as good as it possibly can. I have made one upgrade (a better phono cartridge) in 4 years. Is my system the best it can be? No, but I'm simply not willing to spend megabucks to get a small improvement. I'm quite happy with the way my system sounds, although I may play around with room EQ at some point soon. There's just too much good music sitting around in the bins at record stores waiting for my grubby fingers to displace them for me to want to drop $16K on new amplification. OTOH, if I HAD $16K extra to play around with, I'd buy those Wyetech Labs tubed separates... nah, I wouldn't! I'd buy more music with some of it and save the rest. If I were ungodly rich, I'd buy the Wyetech

    If you consider yourself an audiophile but are also a reasonable person and don't go overboard, there's nothing to be ashamed of. Just as the person who is happy with his Technics rack system has nothing to be ashamed of.

  5. #5
    Forum Regular
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Location
    Chicago
    Posts
    583

    Well here is mine.

    Quote Originally Posted by 46minaudio
    Define Audiophile.Bturk it seems we all have a different meaning for the word audiophile..
    A person who assembles an audio system that has the ability to reproduce recorded music in as high a fidelity as possible.

    .

  6. #6
    Forum Regular
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Location
    Chicago
    Posts
    583

    As an Audiophile...

    Quote Originally Posted by TinHere
    Audiophile...Someone with better gear than you love, and still isn't happy with it.
    that's not mine. I listen to music not my system. A system is simply a means to an end. But, I do like my music to sound good. I for one an very happy with my system.

    Question: Have you ever replaced a component in your system for a better built or sounding one?

  7. #7
    Forum Regular
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Location
    Chicago
    Posts
    583

    Sure...

    [QUOTE=DMK]Because the term "audiophile" has become synonymous with someone who obsessively upgrades his gear with each new product that comes out, sells the gear he's loved for years when one of the audio rags pans it (if they ever do!), spends inordinate sums of money on cables, tweaks and other items of dubious value, who takes everything he hears at face value without trying to understand what might be causing the change, and who often cares more about his equipment than his music.

    but if it's their money and they are willing to spend it, well, what's the big deal? You or I might not understand why a person does this, but we don't have to.

    Why do people buy cars that cost over $100,000 dollars? Because they can. That amount of money they spend maybe less, when you take their income into account, than you or I spend proportionately on a car. It is all relative. Sixteen thousand dollars maybe a lot for you, it sure is for me, but for some it's like walking around money.

    How much they spend and on what many times is a statement to them. See how rich I am, see where I live, see what I drive, and see what I listen to my music through. But for some, they might just want to listen to music through equipment that they perceive as the best. They may also believe, you get what you pay for, and their point of deminishing return is high. So they spend the money. Again, it's all relative!

    I have read others give the same argument that you gave. Now some seem to act as if a person is willing to spend HIS or HER money, and a lot of it on equipment, that it's a slap in their face. Almost as if he or she is spending their money. For what I spent on my system, some of my freinds would think I'm crazy. So what, I don't tell them how to spend their money, so they don't tell me how to spend mine.

    If an audiophile is and does what you say they do and are, big deal. What's wrong with it?
    It is their money after all.

  8. #8
    DMK
    DMK is offline
    Forum Regular
    Join Date
    Dec 2001
    Posts
    332
    [QUOTE=bturk667
    If an audiophile is and does what you say they do and are, big deal. What's wrong with it?
    It is their money after all.[/QUOTE]

    There's nothing inherently wrong with spending a lot of money on audio gear or anything else for that matter. The problem comes when it becomes an obsession and all common sense goes out the window. Here's an example:

    Not too many years ago, a pair of speakers I coveted were reviewed in an audio mag and the reviewer panned them severely. Shortly, they became available in the secondary market as all the audiophiles who owned them decided to dump them. I bought a 3 year old pair of speakers for $1600 that retailed for $7500. The owner couldn't wait to dump them. When I asked why, he said it was because of all the bad press. I replied "but did you all of a sudden stop enjoying them because a reviewer did?" Bottom line is that the guy took a huge bath on a pair of speakers he admitted he had loved just because the audio press didn't like them. They have been in my home ever since and they are the finest speakers I've ever heard in my life.

    What's wrong with it? Nothing! I made out like a bandit! Seriously, there's nothing really wrong with it unless the process becomes bigger than the person. Many people that participate in the constant upgrading do NOT have the money even though they do become obsessed. But this can happen with anything. As I said, I'm an audiophile. That doesn't mean I'm obsessed with it. I am, however, obsessed with music but at least I don't have to lose what I already own to get more!

  9. #9
    Forum Regular TinHere's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Location
    L.I., NY
    Posts
    288
    Quote Originally Posted by bturk667
    that's not mine. I listen to music not my system. A system is simply a means to an end. But, I do like my music to sound good. I for one an very happy with my system.

    Question: Have you ever replaced a component in your system for a better built or sounding one?
    I changed my speakers from Diva to Rockets.
    I went from a JVC DVD player to a Panisonic CP72 to get DVD-Audio.
    I went from an older Yamaha to the RX-V2400 to get DPLII, NEO 6 etc. and YPAO.
    I went from a Klipsch KSW-12 to an SVS 20-39 PCi.

    These changes came as a result of a limited budget and research on the forums. All the changes I made were well worth the costs. Like you I listen to the music and not the system, however these changes have made the music/movies sound better to me. They allowed me to enjoy different formats on the processing side. The speakers and the sub changes allowed for better reproduction of the processing. I'm very happy with my system now and it will remain the way it is until/if I decide I want to make changes for enhanced 2 channel with the Perpetual Technologies gear. I only really started giving audio products much thought a few years ago, but I have enjoyed music my whole life.
    TinHere

    Enjoying a virtual life.

  10. #10
    Forum Regular
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Location
    Chicago
    Posts
    583
    [QUOTE=DMK][QUOTE=bturk667
    If an audiophile is and does what you say they do and are, big deal. What's wrong with it?
    It is their money after all.[/QUOTE]

    The problem comes when it becomes an obsession and all common sense goes out the window. Here's an example:

    I bought a 3 year old pair of speakers for $1600 that retailed for $7500. The owner couldn't wait to dump them. When I asked why, he said it was because of all the bad press. I replied "but did you all of a sudden stop enjoying them because a reviewer did?" Bottom line is that the guy took a huge bath on a pair of speakers he admitted he had loved just because the audio press didn't like them. They have been in my home ever since and they are the finest speakers I've ever heard in my life.

    Again, as long as it's not you who is obsessed, then what does it matter? People have always thrown common sense out the window, and will continue to. I say let them, as long as they don't hurt anyone else.

    Now, what makes you think the person you bought those speakers from was an Audiophile? Could he not have been an Audio Enthusiast? Let me guess why. Because he was swayed by a review. May this not just mean he's a dumb ass?

  11. #11
    DMK
    DMK is offline
    Forum Regular
    Join Date
    Dec 2001
    Posts
    332
    Quote Originally Posted by bturk667
    Again, as long as it's not you who is obsessed, then what does it matter?

    It doesn't. At least, it doesn't to me. How obsessed people may become over audio gear is not something I worry much about. OTOH, you asked the question and I provided some possible answers. That doesn't mean I think that all audiophiles are obsessive, indecisive dorks. But that's how a lot of people, even people who care about sonics, feel about them, rightly or wrongly.

    "Now, what makes you think the person you bought those speakers from was an Audiophile? Could he not have been an Audio Enthusiast? Let me guess why. Because he was swayed by a review. May this not just mean he's a dumb ass?
    First of all, what's the difference between an audiophile and an audio enthusiast? I haven't an inkling. Second of all, he told me he was an audiophile. I had no reason to doubt him at the time and I don't now. But's he's without a doubt a dumb ass!

  12. #12
    Forum Regular
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Posts
    84

    Talking Definitions

    >>A person who assembles an audio system that has the ability to reproduce recorded music in as high a fidelity as possible.

    I would agree with that definiton.

    An audiophile is not defined by the amount of money he puts into his system, but by the amount of passion he puts into it. I am pretty sure Bill Gates can buy a pretty expensive system, but if he does not appreciated such system and at least wonders if it might sound better if "this" or that" is changed, then he is just a guy with a very expensive stereo, not an audiophile.

    The reason audiophiles are so trashed this days is that the word have become synonimun with fanatic, a person who is never happy with what he has but is always trying to milk a couple thounsands of % of performance out of a system.

    This is a hobby and it should bring you peace, happiness and all around good feelings. If it doesn't, then it is likely that you are an audiophile . . .

  13. #13
    Forum Regular
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Location
    Roscoe IL
    Posts
    210

    I would agree with the definition, if...

    If it includes what is within the audiophiles means. Seeking the best possible might make for the constant upgrade fanatic. I'm sure that $100k systems or $200k systems sound great but I don't ever strive to own such a system. The interest in high-fidelity music reproduction is all that is required to be an audiophile.
    I hesitate to call myself an audiophile as in my own mind, this should be reserved for the people here who can tell me how to build components or make major upgrades to components due to their vast knowledge of stereo components and of the individual parts which make them work. I am not one of these people.
    If you like being called an audiophile, that's fine, after all, you are one. I'll stick with enthusiast, not because of any misguided bad connotation but because of my lack of technical knowledge or skill level that so many people here already have.
    Bill

  14. #14
    Forum Regular
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Posts
    162
    Quote Originally Posted by IsmaVA
    >>
    This is a hobby and it should bring you peace, happiness and all around good feelings. If it doesn't, then it is likely that you are an audiophile . . .
    That's probably the best definition I've seen or heard yet!

  15. #15
    Forum Regular
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Location
    Chicago
    Posts
    583

    Sorry!

    [
    This is a hobby and it should bring you peace, happiness and all around good feelings. If it doesn't, then it is likely that you are an audiophile . . .[/QUOTE]
    As an audiophile I disagree. I recieved more peace, happiness, and all around good feelings after I up-graded my system. Not to mention a hell of a lot better sounding system! So I guess not all audiophiles would agree with your statement above.

  16. #16
    Forum Regular
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Posts
    84

    Ok

    Quote Originally Posted by bturk667
    As an audiophile I disagree. I recieved more peace, happiness, and all around good feelings after I up-graded my system. Not to mention a hell of a lot better sounding system! So I guess not all audiophiles would agree with your statement above.
    You are actually making my point.

    If, as upgraded, your system makes you happy, then Good for you!

    If, it is the actual process of upgrading what makes you happy, then, once again, Good for you!

    However, if that happines only last a brief moment before you start to "hear" room for improvement, and you feel that vanity-driven voice in your head telling that no, it its not good yet, you must buy better cables, or speakers or whatever, then, even one more time, Good for You!

    My point is that TO ME an audiophile is a person who is obsessed with always improving his system. You might call that happiness, but I don't. :-)

    I am pretty sure this does not applies here, but . . .

    Once we have commited a lot of time or energy to a cause, it is nearly impossible to convince us that the cause is unworthy - Dr. Elliot Aronson on cognitive dissonance

  17. #17
    Forum Regular
    Join Date
    Dec 2001
    Posts
    553
    Why do people act like audiophile is a four letter word?

    Because the vast majority of those that wear that designation with pride have lost sight of what the hobby was supposed to be about - that's why.

    I was an "audiophile" before the term ever came into use - back in the 1930s. It started when I was just a youngster, barely out of short pants. What I was involved in was a passionate interest in recorded sound, particularly recorded music. My passion continued on into the '40s, '50s, and '60s - and if anyone called me an audiophile during those years, there was no reason I should deny it.

    But then in the '70s and '80s things started to change. Audiophiles gradually became fanatically obsessive about the equipment. They were compulsively so - to the point that they became "nitpickers". This then led to them being guilty of gross exaggerations about what "night & day" differences they obtained by means of some bizarre "tweak". They began to speak a private language, using terms like airy - bloom - dark - aggressive - billowy - grainy - gritty - boxy - and the like to describe sounds. Never mind music ... now they decided to focus nearly all of their attention on the hardware and what effects it had on the sound being produced.

    So, I coined a word (an acronym, actually) to describe these nuts ... CONE(s) - which coincidentally IS a four-letter word! It stands for: Compulsive, Obsessive, Nitpicking, Exaggerator. This doesn't of course apply to all audiophiles - just to a vast majority. So today, I don't want anyone referring to ME by that title, since I resigned from the fraternity some 25 years ago or so.

    woodman
    I plan to live forever ..... so far, so good!
    Steven Wright

  18. #18
    Forum Regular gonefishin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Location
    Joliet, Ill.
    Posts
    342
    What pure crap. You guys can certainly have your interpretations of how you think audiophiles act. But to change the definition of a word (or roots of that word) to fit your interpretation is laughable. Sorry...but it is. Not to mention many of you are *gasp* prejudice.



    One entry found for audiophile.


    Main Entry: au·dio·phile
    Pronunciation: 'o-dE-O-"fIl
    Function: noun
    Date: 1951
    : a person who is enthusiastic about high-fidelity sound reproduction


    Main Entry: 1-phil
    Variant(s): or -phile
    Function: noun combining form
    Etymology: French -phile, from Greek -philos -philous
    : lover : one having an affinity for or a strong attraction to

    Main Entry: 2-phil
    Variant(s): or -phile
    Function: adjective combining form
    Etymology: New Latin -philus, from Latin, from Greek -philos
    : loving : having a fondness or affinity for




    That's it. Someone who has a fondness for audio.


    heck...I'd even go as far as saying that everyone who has responded here IS also an audiophile. The very fact that a person visits a site like this, proves that they do have an affinity for audio. But, because someone (you guys) may be audiophile's does not mean you cannot "phile", or have a fondness or affinity for, something else, say...like music....or fishing...or photography...or whatever else.

    No, instead of using the word as it is written, many people here (and elsewhere), decide to portray this word in a negative light to make themselves look (or feel) better. example) I am not an audiophile. An audiophile is someone who spends more time worrying about their equipment and listening to their equipment rather than listening to music...like I do. What pure hogwash! LOL.


    That's how I view the definition of this word...and the distortion of that definition.


    My interpretations of those who enjoy audio is that the majority of these people enjoy both listening to music and enjoy their hobby which is studying audio systems. As the definition states...an audiophile has a fondness or affinity for audio (same as all of you here)...but, I would go as far to say that an audiophile does not have to own a single piece of audio gear. I could remember when I was a young kid...we didn't have much money to speak of. But this didn't change me from collecting every brochure I could on various audio equipment. At 7 or so years old...I would beg my mother to bring me to the local audio shop so I could look, listen and feel to what they had. I'd collect all the brochures I could. It just amazed me that a stereo system can make the music sound sooo good. Did this ever take away my enjoyment of listening to the Beatles? Heck no. But I did have a fondness for audio at a very young age. This fondness also started some 15 years or so before I could buy a system that cost more than $200.00.

    It is silly to think (or assume) that someone who is an audiophile is not a musicphile. In fact...I think ...it would make more sense to assume (because that's what your doing) that audiophiles ARE musicphiles also. Rather than to assume that audiophiles are not musicphiles.


    Happy Holidays!
    Last edited by gonefishin; 12-10-2003 at 06:18 AM.
    __________________
    I found the spoon
    __________________


    enjoy the music!

  19. #19
    Forum Regular Mwalsdor_cscc_edu's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    Columbus
    Posts
    106
    Like Fish said, looking just at the definition we're all audiophiles. It seems what people want to do is contrive new meanings for it. And like I said earlier in the thread, it doesn't speak very highly of someone who clearly belongs to a interest group but because of public perception decides to either drop out or distance themselves. And in the context of audio and the term used to define them, it is ridiculous. You make it sound scandelous when all you're doing is exhibiting the same nit-piking traits you abhore. No one even cares except those within our small body of enthusiasts what term is used. We can't even agree on what defines us, is that not compulsive and silly? By definition I'm an audiophile, I'm not ashamed or proud of that. It just a small part of what defines me as a person. If the hobby has changed or the people associated no longer represent your passion then find a new one but don't deny you are one of them.

    MikE

  20. #20
    Forum Regular Mwalsdor_cscc_edu's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    Columbus
    Posts
    106

    expanding on my last post

    I've been involved in audio since the early 70's. Certainly the equipment and the people associated have not so much changed but expanded. There are so many more types of equipment to choose from, and that has splintered us. Instead of "audiophile" there are sub groups that may better define us. I'm more interested in tubes and hi-efficiency speaker systems what work better with low power amplification. I belong to the SET fan base, and even more specifically, I'm better defined by my particular output tube of choice - 45. You see there are 300b, 2a3, 845, 811 tubes that all have a different following. And some of us like more than one. So while I may not agree with how all audiophiles pursue our shared passion, I've found that within my [SET] group there is more harmony than disharmony among what we find important. Perhaps people are hanging out in the wrong neighborhood.

    MikE

  21. #21
    Forum Regular
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Posts
    1,188
    Quote Originally Posted by woodman
    But then in the '70s and '80s things started to change. Audiophiles gradually became fanatically obsessive about the equipment. They were compulsively so - to the point that they became "nitpickers". ...
    Would that include someone who was upset because the manufacturer of his custom built triode SET amplifier installed the custom made wire from another manufacturer backwards? And you thought AC electricity travelled equally well through a wire in both directions. Live and learn.

  22. #22
    Forum Regular gonefishin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Location
    Joliet, Ill.
    Posts
    342
    Quote Originally Posted by skeptic
    Would that include someone who was upset because the manufacturer of his custom built triode SET amplifier installed the custom made wire from another manufacturer backwards? And you thought AC electricity travelled equally well through a wire in both directions. Live and learn.

    Skeptic...you are one of the people who I see putting others down to make yourself look (or feel) better. It's childish behavior, but often used by adults as much as children (sometimes more so).
    Do you notice how many of your thoughts are a bit off subject...and that your thoughts do not lead toward productive discussions...but the goals of your posts seem to be (many times) rather to continue an unproductive argument. Don't get me wrong...I love arguments ( or disagreements)...but the fashion in which these arguments are discussed is important to me. I like to keep the argument productive (striving toward the goal of either persuading or understanding your view of the point). More often than not your arguments seem to be non-productive. You would rather skirt around the entire context (or meaning) that a post has been made and focus on a section of ones post...to try to discredit, poke fun of that person...if these things cannot be accomplished, it seems you make comments to further the argument in a non-productive manner by saying anything necessary to keep the discussion flowing toward non-productivity (like your comment above). There has been much that has been said by the most recent messages by MikE...but rather than focus on his thoughts here...you decide to bring the discussion down a few notches (again) by trying to make him look foolish.

    It seems that not audio or music may be why you come here. Perhaps you come here to just argue in a juvenile manner.


    Let me ask you these questions...

    Do you think MikE is an audiophile?


    Do you think MikE is a musicphile?

    Do you believe these two are separate things?

    Do you think one person can posses both of these qualities?


    thanks fer reading...take care>>>>>>>>>>







    Main Entry: ar·gu·ment
    Pronunciation: 'är-gy&-m&nt
    Function: noun
    Etymology: Middle English, from Middle French, from Latin argumentum, from arguere
    Date: 14th century
    1 obsolete : an outward sign : INDICATION
    2 a : a reason given in proof or rebuttal b : discourse intended to persuade
    3 a : the act or process of arguing : ARGUMENTATION b : a coherent series of statements leading from a premise to a conclusion c : QUARREL, DISAGREEMENT
    4 : an abstract or summary especially of a literary work
    5 : the subject matter especially of a literary work
    6 a : one of the independent variables upon whose value that of a function depends b : a substantive (as the direct object of a transitive verb) that is required by a predicate in grammar c : the angle assigned to a complex number when it is plotted in a complex plane using polar coordinates -- called also amplitude; compare ABSOLUTE VALUE 2
    __________________
    I found the spoon
    __________________


    enjoy the music!

  23. #23
    Forum Regular
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Posts
    84

    Definitions

    gonefishin, one thing are dictionary definitions, other, generally quite different, are popular definitions. I thought we we talking about popular definitions since it would have being easy for the original poster just to look the word up in a dictionary, instead of asking for opinions.

    :-)

  24. #24
    Forum Regular gonefishin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Location
    Joliet, Ill.
    Posts
    342
    Quote Originally Posted by IsmaVA
    gonefishin, one thing are dictionary definitions, other, generally quite different, are popular definitions. I thought we we talking about popular definitions since it would have being easy for the original poster just to look the word up in a dictionary, instead of asking for opinions.

    :-)

    good point!


    I suppose I was replying more to the question asked in the original post...

    Why do people act like audiophile is a four letter word?


    To make my reply a bit shorter to this question...people act like audiophile is a four letter word because of their prejudices.
    __________________
    I found the spoon
    __________________


    enjoy the music!

  25. #25
    Forum Regular Mwalsdor_cscc_edu's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    Columbus
    Posts
    106

    Thumbs down Skeptic, get the facts straight

    Someone reading your post would assume that my concern had to do with wire directionality. That is another matter entirely but that was not what was meant by "wired backwards". The supplier of the wire [Bob Crump] used that term in an email to describe what appeared as an incorrect application of his wire. That the silver hookup wire; teflon insulated 99.99997 silver rods, equaling 22awg, [signal] and 19awg Wonder Wire [ground] were reversed. That the silver-plated copper Wonder Wire was on signal and the pure silver was on ground.

    As I've stated numerous times on this subject, I was not debating the validity of either configuration, my concern was the business ethics of the manufacturer. We had discussed the details of the mods on my amp for months and he then chose not to follow the details of the customization. Remember, the customization was a key factor in the selection decision. I had considered this purchase very carefully [PP>SET], having spent over a year listening to product, researching the impact on my system and finally choosing the right component / manufacturer. Then there was a three month wait on it's completion. After all that, it's not at all unreasonable that I expected to have it "built to spec". If he had issues with the wire install there was ample opportunity to discuss it prior to me purchasing the wire seperately.

    By your logic, you'd pay for an AGREED apon upgrade on a vehicle purchase [regardless the effect] and then just allow the dealer / manufacturer to install whatever they felt was proper w/o prior consent. Yet, in my situation you wish to imply that my behavior is fanatical.

    MikE

Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •