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Thread: bi amp

  1. #1
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    Wink bi amp

    How do I connect up a recently bought arcam 8 amp to my existing arcam 7r amp,
    my speakers have the 4 terminals for bi wiring or bi amping.I also have a arcam 7se cd player,,so this amp will marry up the system.I have bi wired befe but not bi amped.Any advice would be great,my interconnects are audioquest emerald@speaker cable is Chord harmony ,it sounds great as it is,but the extra power should work.My speakers are Eltax Monitor 3
    'I find them good for the price for bookshelf speakers,any help greatly appreaciated.
    Regards Bob.

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    Arcam is nice gear. You will need to look at the back of your speakers, you should see strips of metal or some other type of jumper connecting the speaker terminals together, you will need to remove those. Being a bit familiar with Arcam but not sure if you have an integrated or two power amps and just didn't mention the preamp, the 8 will have a bit more power so connect it to the bass terminals and the 7r to the high terminals. Typically, the bass is the bottom set of terminals while the highs are the top. If your pre or integrated doesn't have two sets of outputs you will have to use a "Y" adaptor in order to run both amps. If you have a preamp Y off with one leg of the left to the 8 and the other left to the 7 and repeat the same on right. If an integrated one side of the Y will go back into the integrated's preamp input while the other side to the 8.

    This will work better if the amps have a gain control for the input. You may find it not necessary but in many instances a gain is helpful to balance the sound in case maybe the 7 drives the highs too loud and your speakers sound unbalanced. Or, just simple tweaking to preference. Any way it should be a fun event. I hope this helps.

    This may be more than you ever wanted to know, I refer back to this occasionally.....
    http://sound.westhost.com/bi-amp.htm

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    Where is the (low-level?) X-over?

    Or are you tapping into the speakers' original crossover? If this is so, I do not see an advantage relative to the complication & cost.

    Otherwise, I infer that the drivers might be operating full-range meaning the result will not be an improvement.

    This would be a lot easier with a diagram/schematic.

  4. #4
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    Optimum set up would be to use an external crossover and bypass the internal speaker crossover but that is typically not easy for most home speakers or users. Biamping can sometimes still improve things even with using the speakers crossover and both sets of provided terminals.

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    Hi,thanks for your reply.I have the arcam 7 r amp +alpha 7se cd player.I have now bought the arcam 8 as I said.I thought it would just be a case as when you wire up pre @ power amps?.i willtry your suggestions.
    My main system is as follows.--Roksan CDP1 updated to current Roksan speck +Pink triangle da capo.Into a Arion Acoustic TYCHO 50 Watt class A integrated Valve Amp.
    My speakers are Rega 5s with bi wire by Chord Rumour interconnects are 20 yr old audioquest emerald @ still do the business.I have a Nacamichi DR2 which still plays as good as ever, a Revox B77 mk 2 brings up the rear,whch I bought in the 80s +tuners etc.
    I also have a Akai gx 95 11 pro.which I am selling the last two items.
    so after nearly 40yrs of assembling this system,maybe its time for it all to go.Its been great fun over the years @ I still love my music,regards Bob.

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    I like Arcam but I have to imagine that valve amp sounds pretty good, each would have very different presentations. If you are thinking of biamping from the Arion maybe try the valve amp connected to the mids/highs speaker terminal and the Arcam 8 to the bass terminals. You have a nice set up already.

    Have you compared the Arcam 7se to the Roksan CDP to see which is better?

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    Roksan versus arcam 7 SE

    .Hi there,thanks for coming back on my question.Playing the Arcam against the Arion is a very different sound alltogether.I have only been able to play the Arcam as an integrated amp @ as such it is a very detailed cd player.On voice the it is as good as I have heard in a long time,very detaled @ accurate,as you know I have not as yet wired up the power amp.I will have a go tomorrow Sunday, will wire it as you suggest,I will use "Linn"K20 speaker cable for the bass drivers @ AudioQuest interconnrct from pre. to power,
    My "Arion" Amp is something totally different both in power @ presentation.It,s a very clear @ special amp with the way i have it all set up.It is amazingly detailed in all typer of music,I can listen to the "Highwaymen" or "Stan Getz" Dizzie or Dolly Parton.The Amp just loves good music ,Well I am being told my dinner is 5 minutes away,regard s Bob.

  8. #8
    Super Moderator Site Moderator JohnMichael's Avatar
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    A little late to the party but I would use the pre-amp outs from the 7R and send the signal to the inputs of the 8 using a quality stereo interconnect.. As suggested I would use the 8 for the woofers and the 7R for the upper range. Since you will be using different runs of cables one pair from the 8 to the woofers and one pair from the 7R to the upper range I would also use the larger guage cable if there is a difference for the woofers.

    When you biwire do you have two pair of speaker cables or one pair of internally biwired cables per speaker? If they are internally biwired which means there is one pair of spades or banans at the amp end and two pairs at the speaker end you will most likely need another pair of speaker cables.

    Good luck and enjoy your new amp.
    JohnMichael
    Vinyl Rega Planar 2, Incognito rewire, Deepgroove subplatter, ceramic bearing, Michell Technoweight, Rega 24V motor, TTPSU, FunkFirm Achroplat platter, Michael Lim top and bottom braces, 2 Rega feet and one RDC cones. Grado Sonata, Moon 110 LP phono.
    Digital
    Sony SCD-XA5400ES SACD/cd SID mat, Marantz SA 8001
    Int. Amp Krell S-300i
    Speaker
    Monitor Audio RS6
    Cables
    AQ SPKR and AQ XLR and IC

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    Unhappy

    Hi there, I have spent the past 2 hrs hrs like all good audiophiles upside down passing cables to @ fro between cd player 7r amp @to the arcam 8.Will some one tell me when this stopped being enjoyable,I came out of the sun lounge grabbed a can of 7 up @sat for a while.now for the good bit,it worked for 5 minutes out of the right hand channel,I shut down @then pulled everything out @ started again nothing obvious at this time @ I am fast used up todays run of pateince so I will leave it for tomorrow,a Danish Skipper once told me."Time was invented by the Swiss , in order to sell watches." So I will take heed of Eric @ pour a dram @call it a day. Any exscuse will do.Bob.

  10. #10
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    Well matie, what did you hook to what?

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    Red face All right now

    Hi there,
    well I did as was suggested.I used my Linn cable for the bass @ then the Chord for the tweeters,I made sure both were of equal length ' then connected the Audioquest interconnect.
    I could not get a peep out of it.There is no output from the 8 amp at all.I even tried connecting just the cd player to the amp @ just listening through my head phones,zilch.
    I have e mailed the seller,so we will see what happens,thanks for your interest,
    Regards Bob.::

  12. #12
    Super Moderator Site Moderator JohnMichael's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sailorbob0125
    Hi there,
    well I did as was suggested.I used my Linn cable for the bass @ then the Chord for the tweeters,I made sure both were of equal length ' then connected the Audioquest interconnect.
    I could not get a peep out of it.There is no output from the 8 amp at all.I even tried connecting just the cd player to the amp @ just listening through my head phones,zilch.
    I have e mailed the seller,so we will see what happens,thanks for your interest,
    Regards Bob.::


    Sounds like the 8 is not working. Have you checked any fuses? If it is working could there be a problem with how it is hooked up.

    Can you tell us exactly how things are hooked up? I know what cables you used but not sure what inputs and outputs you used. If the 8 is not working I would assume no bass. When I googled the 7r and it said it was an intrgrated amp and I would like to know is it an integrated amp.
    JohnMichael
    Vinyl Rega Planar 2, Incognito rewire, Deepgroove subplatter, ceramic bearing, Michell Technoweight, Rega 24V motor, TTPSU, FunkFirm Achroplat platter, Michael Lim top and bottom braces, 2 Rega feet and one RDC cones. Grado Sonata, Moon 110 LP phono.
    Digital
    Sony SCD-XA5400ES SACD/cd SID mat, Marantz SA 8001
    Int. Amp Krell S-300i
    Speaker
    Monitor Audio RS6
    Cables
    AQ SPKR and AQ XLR and IC

  13. #13
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    Red face arcam 8 amp

    Hi there John.
    The Arcam 7r is an antigrated amp,but if you use both sets of speaker outputs ,you can bi amp with the Arcam 8.You use the 7r as a pre amp @use the speaker out to your speakers tweeter @ using audio interconnects terminals on the back of the 8amp then you can then connect the pre side to the arcam 8 amps speaker terminals to the bass terminals on the speaker.That is assuming you have two sets of speaker terminals,so thats how i see it,i hope thats right,maybe Mr Peabody would come in on that,regards Bob.

  14. #14
    Super Moderator Site Moderator JohnMichael's Avatar
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    Sorry if I am a little dense today but a little confused by what you are saying. CD player plugged into Arcam 7r then one set of cables from the 7r speaker outputs to the tweeters. Next from the preamp output of the 7r to the inputs of the 8. Then another set of cables from the speaker outputs of the 8 to the woofers. That is how I think it should be set up.
    JohnMichael
    Vinyl Rega Planar 2, Incognito rewire, Deepgroove subplatter, ceramic bearing, Michell Technoweight, Rega 24V motor, TTPSU, FunkFirm Achroplat platter, Michael Lim top and bottom braces, 2 Rega feet and one RDC cones. Grado Sonata, Moon 110 LP phono.
    Digital
    Sony SCD-XA5400ES SACD/cd SID mat, Marantz SA 8001
    Int. Amp Krell S-300i
    Speaker
    Monitor Audio RS6
    Cables
    AQ SPKR and AQ XLR and IC

  15. #15
    Super Moderator Site Moderator JohnMichael's Avatar
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    Bob, on the back of your 7r the first set of rca plugs are the preamp out. Take an interconnect from the preamp out to the inputs of the 8. SP1 is where the cables for the tweeters should go. You would not use the second set of speaker termianals. You need to go from the 7r preamp outs to the 8 inputs so both amps will have the signal to amplify. Then the 8's speaker terminals to the woofers.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails bi amp-img_0379-smaller.jpg  
    JohnMichael
    Vinyl Rega Planar 2, Incognito rewire, Deepgroove subplatter, ceramic bearing, Michell Technoweight, Rega 24V motor, TTPSU, FunkFirm Achroplat platter, Michael Lim top and bottom braces, 2 Rega feet and one RDC cones. Grado Sonata, Moon 110 LP phono.
    Digital
    Sony SCD-XA5400ES SACD/cd SID mat, Marantz SA 8001
    Int. Amp Krell S-300i
    Speaker
    Monitor Audio RS6
    Cables
    AQ SPKR and AQ XLR and IC

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    hi John,yes that is how i have it wired as you suggest,the 8 amp shows power on but no sound at all,not even a sound as if there is something happening,i think its knackerd,parden my french.i am dissapointed as i hoped it would work,as suggested,its a bummer really.It sounds fine as it is,as my sun lounge is,nt that large 12by12,in there its fine but we are always curious,to would it sound better,if,' its always the incongrous,IF,thats what makes it all worthwhile.My wifes just shouted that my tea is nearly ready,so i will sign off,all the best,Bob.

  17. #17
    Super Moderator Site Moderator JohnMichael's Avatar
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    Bob, I had another question. Is the 8 a power amp or another integrated amp? If the 8 is an integrated amp you want to turn the volume knob to the loudest setting because the volume knob of the 7r will control the volume.
    JohnMichael
    Vinyl Rega Planar 2, Incognito rewire, Deepgroove subplatter, ceramic bearing, Michell Technoweight, Rega 24V motor, TTPSU, FunkFirm Achroplat platter, Michael Lim top and bottom braces, 2 Rega feet and one RDC cones. Grado Sonata, Moon 110 LP phono.
    Digital
    Sony SCD-XA5400ES SACD/cd SID mat, Marantz SA 8001
    Int. Amp Krell S-300i
    Speaker
    Monitor Audio RS6
    Cables
    AQ SPKR and AQ XLR and IC

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    Red face amp is poorly

    Hi John,thanks for coming back with your comments,it is a 8amp,my son came round last night ' we had a look inside the amp.The seller said it would be a waste of his money for me to send it back,as repair costs are so expensive.So myself @ my son had a good look.
    There is nothing glaringly obvious that you could say,thats wrong,we could not smell any tell tale signs of anything that has fried.My nearest Arcam dealer is 60 mls away,not far you might say,but at the moment it all looks like i was,i know a chap who like me,was a fisherman,he was a wireless operator '@we sailed together many years ago,in the early 60s,working the west side of Iceland,in the good old days.Ha ha,what a laugh.
    We are both leisure sailors now @only sail yachts when its a little warmer than at present.
    Well John,i some how got sidetracked there,Regards Bob.

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    If your Arcam dealer did repairs it may be worth the trip, otherwise I'd contact the U.S. rep and see about sending it back to them for repair. They will usually give you an RA# and a place to send it. That's a bummer it don't work.

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    Red face

    Hi there,thanks for coming back.The seller says he will refund my payment to me,if that happens then all is not lost.Anyway you guys, thank you for yor support,
    speak with you again,regards Bob.

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    Smile Amp repaired

    Hi there,i finally have my arcam 8 back up @ running,thank you guys for all your suggestions.I have my Arcam system up ' running @ sounding quite sweet,i am amazed how these diminutive speakers have so much poke.i have placed them on stands @ further to that i have placed 19mm sorbothane feet under both speakers,i do not know why this is so positive a tweek,but we all know little things can change the whole listening experiance.I have sorbothane under pre @power amps +under the cd player it all just flows.Once again thanks guys for your help @advice,regards Bob.

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    Smile alls well that ends well.

    Hi there,
    I just thought i would let you know how things are.My system in the sun lounge is working really well,I am digging out cd,s I hav,nt looked at in years.What this Arcam set up does extremely well,is allow you to here all of the music.I was playing" Stan Getz,s" album "Jazz Samba" yesterday afternoon,@ was so impressed with the imaging @clarity,it is now so revealing.
    Question,my lad has bought himself the 8r integrated @8se cd player on the back of how mine sounds,I was around at his home on Sunday @he played some "George Micheal" for me,he has a problem in as much that there is a definite bias towards the right channel,I could not hear anything from the left channel sat 8ft in front @ to the right.If he altered the balance control we then had balance,but thats not the cure,he is not a happy chappy at the moment!
    Any of you guys any suggestions as he will be bending my ear otherwise?
    All the best,regards Bob.

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    I would play around first to isolate where the problem is, switch the RCA's left to right to see if the same channel is bad, try another CD player or source to see if the same problem. If the bad channel switches to the other side with the cables then it is a bad set of cables. Could be simply one not pushed in all the way. If the same channel persists through all experiments then it's time to put the amp in the shop. You could try some contact cleaner on the pots to see if that helps. Usually dirty pots will be accompanied by noise when it is turned, sort of that scratching or cutting out noise.

    Glad to hear your system is singing to you

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    inbalance corrected

    Mr P,
    thanks for coming back,it,s one of those things that happens sometimes.Between us all we have got there,the beauty of age is that sometimes it,s best just to let things be a while & then give it a bloody good looking at.He has now got his new inter connects & he says it,s much better,so thanks again.He at this moment is trying to set up a newly acquired Sony Blu-Ray player to my Sony Bravia TV but it will not talk to it at the moment,so he is taking it home to lower the setting on his.He is on 1080p &mine is on less? now this is over the top for me.
    See you again ,regards Bob.

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    I don't know Bob, sounds like just an excuse to play with dad's new Blu-ray Player to me.

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