B&W 703 Floorstanders

[theaudiohobby]

I'm glad you have come to appreciate the 703's.They're a big investment.I find their reproduction of instruments to be very solid.My biggest complaint is with the FST midrange. It's too out front with vocals for me. I think this speaker is better suited for jazz and classical,the inherent edginess of rock and pop CD's is pronounced with the 703's.On the other hand a lot of people like these speakers. It comes down to personal taste,equipment,room acoustics, and music choice.I can't do much with acoustics.My listening room is my living room with looks being more important then acoustics.My room needs a warmer speaker so I'll have to sell my 703's at a loss and start over.I should be able to get at least $1500 for my 2 year old 703's. I'm going to limit myself to that amount for my new speaker purchase. I'm confident I can find an excellent speaker in that price range.My previous Proac 2-ways were $1300 and sounded sweet in this same room with the same components.Thanks for the reply and I'm glad the 703's settled in for you.
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Your last post is probably the most enlightning, you have nailed why do not like the 703's quite nicely, if you do not like an upfront presentation and prefer a more laidback sound. The Audio Notes fall into that definition, so do the Spendors also but I am less familiar with them, or maybe just go back and get some floorstanding Proacs.

[StanleyMuso]

Methinks you sound like a religious convert who desperately tries to convince everyone his former religion is crap. I may not have your vast knowledge or experience of so many different speakers, but I just cannot agree with everything you are saying about B&W. The 703s are not the first B&Ws in the family,and I must say that I have a much better opinion of them than you do. However, I am not wedded to them for ever, and likely as not my next speakers will be something completely different. I have owned other brands in the past from different manufacturers and from different countries which I enjoyed very much. By the by, I have auditioned Wharfdales several times in the past twenty or so years, and I'm afraid I just did not like them. However, I don't preach against them, because I recognise that different people like different things, and perhaps even hear differently.

I'm just amused how emotionaly attached people can get to their choices and try to deffend them so strenuously. I say I like my 703s, but I also recognise their drawbacks and don't try to convince people that they are "the best". As I said, likely as not, my next set of speakers will be something completely different. Until then, I intend to enjoy my current setup as much as I can.

[vlastoc]

Change of CDP won't help to sound of your 703's imo. As was adviced, try to adjust or improve acoustic of your room, if this won't help, from my point of view, sell them and spend much time with auditioning of other brand's before you buy any of them.

tips: Focal Electra, Dynaudio (but, I'm not sure if they fit to your kind of music so well), Audio Phisic, Sonus Faber, Rega... and other mentioned above.

v.

[RGA]

Methinks you sound like a religious convert who desperately tries to convince everyone his former religion is crap. I may not have your vast knowledge or experience of so many different speakers, but I just cannot agree with everything you are saying about B&W. The 703s are not the first B&Ws in the family,and I must say that I have a much better opinion of them than you do. However, I am not wedded to them for ever, and likely as not my next speakers will be something completely different. I have owned other brands in the past from different manufacturers and from different countries which I enjoyed very much. By the by, I have auditioned Wharfdales several times in the past twenty or so years, and I'm afraid I just did not like them. However, I don't preach against them, because I recognise that different people like different things, and perhaps even hear differently.

I'm just amused how emotionaly attached people can get to their choices and try to deffend them so strenuously. I say I like my 703s, but I also recognise their drawbacks and don't try to convince people that they are "the best". As I said, likely as not, my next set of speakers will be something completely different. Until then, I intend to enjoy my current setup as much as I can.

I am not recommending any one brand and i don;t particularly like most of what i have heard from Wharfedale. In the past 20 years Wharfedale has had at LEAST 3 different owners. The Vanguard was and is like no other Wharfedale -- it is not a Diamond series speaker AT ALL and while I like the Diamonds for the money we're talking horns versus not horns. They came out with abysmal Modus series speakers and a long line of other stuff that did not entertain. The Vanguards I have are hardly free of weaknesses - otherwise I would not have bought something else.

The 700 series for me is a bad line in the sense that to me it is grossly overpriced for what you get...that is not a statement to advertise what I like or a comparison of what I like but a statmeent in the terms of that speaker against every speaker I have heard at the price over the last 15 years. The 705 is the WORST 2k standmount I have EVER heard. It is so unmusical that it is totally unnacceptable.

I'm not bringing Audio Note into this discussion - it has nothing to do with AN so why others bring them up I do not know. Though there is nothing laid back about the J or E. The superior dynamics require that they project a less laid back sound than the dry overly polite and restrained presentation of the 705.
But then the Quads have no pulse either so it's not a big surprise.

[StanleyMuso]

I am not recommending any one brand and i don;t particularly like most of what i have heard from Wharfedale. In the past 20 years Wharfedale has had at LEAST 3 different owners. The Vanguard was and is like no other Wharfedale -- it is not a Diamond series speaker AT ALL and while I like the Diamonds for the money we're talking horns versus not horns. They came out with abysmal Modus series speakers and a long line of other stuff that did not entertain. The Vanguards I have are hardly free of weaknesses - otherwise I would not have bought something else.

The 700 series for me is a bad line in the sense that to me it is grossly overpriced for what you get...that is not a statement to advertise what I like or a comparison of what I like but a statmeent in the terms of that speaker against every speaker I have heard at the price over the last 15 years. The 705 is the WORST 2k standmount I have EVER heard. It is so unmusical that it is totally unnacceptable.

I'm not bringing Audio Note into this discussion - it has nothing to do with AN so why others bring them up I do not know. Though there is nothing laid back about the J or E. The superior dynamics require that they project a less laid back sound than the dry overly polite and restrained presentation of the 705.
But then the Quads have no pulse either so it's not a big surprise.

to a certain extent I was playing Devil's Advocate. I do agree with you that, for what you get, the 700s and above are overpriced. I managed to get mine at 30% discount at an end of year sale, otherwise, I would not have paid full price. However, generally, don't you think that most esoteric hi-fi is overpriced? Is a Krell, or a Bryston, or a Halcro amp really worth the asking price?

[RGA]

to a certain extent I was playing Devil's Advocate. I do agree with you that, for what you get, the 700s and above are overpriced. I managed to get mine at 30% discount at an end of year sale, otherwise, I would not have paid full price. However, generally, don't you think that most esoteric hi-fi is overpriced? Is a Krell, or a Bryston, or a Halcro amp really worth the asking price?

I don;t get into price discussions too much because price is subjective in that if one speaker gives you good sound and costs say $2500.00 and the next speaker gives you a 10% improvement and costs $8,000.00 then so long as the improvement is there then it is up to you decide on the importance of that improvement. I also don't generally like % improvements because that is a meaningless term outside of an analogy on internet forums. If I can say that a Krell at $70k is better than bryston's best at 10K then it's better -- the issue of overpriced for me comes into play when you pay way more and get IMO worse or no better sound.

When i had my Sugden A48b which was 2k new but which I bought used for a few hundred and running my speakers and a very modest cd player for a grand total of at new prices of around $6k US and then listening to the Wilson Sophia Krell and levinson set-up which runs more than $50kUS closer to $60K if it was better even by 2% then I would say hey that is one heck of a premium to pay for that 2% improvement but that;s up to you. That 2% could be the difference between fatigue inducement and not and so that may be very critical. I would merely call the system overpriced because it in no way bested what I had in my home so I scratch my head and think "well it ain't about how much you spend but on the design you spend it on"

[theaudiohobby]

Though there is nothing laid back about the J or E. The superior dynamics require that they project a less laid back sound than the dry overly polite and restrained presentation of the 705.
But then the Quads have no pulse either so it's not a big surprise.

If the B&W 703 is described as "upfront", I wonder what the J or E are in relation to the 703, upfront or laidback,or is it schizophrenic , more laidback and more upfront than the 703 at the same time . By the way, a laidback speaker can have huge dynamics, different xteristics.

PS: I see that you have moved on from the Genelecs and the ELACs, to the Quads, you are doing a good job, keep up the good work .

[RGA]

If the B&W 703 is described as "upfront", I wonder what the J or E are in relation to the 703, upfront or laidback,or is it schizophrenic , more laidback and more upfront than the 703 at the same time . By the way, a laidback speaker can have huge dynamics, different xteristics.

PS: I see that you have moved on from the Genelecs and the ELACs, to the Quads, you are doing a good job, keep up the good work .

The J and E discern more differences in the recordings across the recordings I have used - who says the 703 is upfront -- bright maybe, but upfront? Though I did not get bright from them - lack of cohesion that makes the ear focus on the tweeter yes but the actual treble response is no worse than most metal tweeters with their artificial and wholly audible ringing - but B&W advertises at great length how each of their new models fixes their old models in the ringing department - which means they always admit their tweeters ring like a dinner bell and how they try to "fix it" and of course the fix is always YOU the buyer needing to pay more and more to get a half decent treble.

This poster is yet another one to add to the B&W's are overpriced and incredibly fatiguing in some manner or other and I made a big mistake getting them group. But at least he can admit it -- I can. If they are so great why don't you put your money where your mouth is sell the speakers you have and settle on the B&W N801 or N802?

If they were truly that good you'd buy them. Asking about getting rid of your Quads for another Quad is obvious -- you know they suck but you can't admit it. Your ego is paper thin.

[theaudiohobby]

Asking about getting rid of your Quads for another Quad is obvious -- you know they suck but you can't admit it. Your ego is paper thin.

Let's leave out the B&Ws for a minute.

The joke about the Quads is just about wearing thin, care to express your experience about the Quads at your dealer in detail? Following your story, sometime ago you listened to a pair of USED ESL-63s at your dealers, What was the setup? Did you ever consider that a pair of used ESL-63 might have ended up at the dealer because they were defective? When asked by LongtimeQuadowner to listen to the Quads at his place, why did you not take up the offer? He told you that he listened to the 20K AN-E at your dealer Soundhounds in all "Audio Note" super rig and came away preferring the Quads, cos they (the Quad's that is) were more open sounding and and as a result invited you on more one occasion to listen to the Quads at his place, you did not take up any of those offers yet you are content to bitterly criticize this selfsame pair of speakers that you have NEVER heard at every opportunity. You even have the audacity to make derogatory comments about other peoples opinion of this selfsame speaker that you have NEVER heard.

The same applies to the Genelec 8040 and the ELACs, as of this writing you have NEVER heard any of these speakers, yet you feel obliged at every opportunity to put your two pence worth of bitter criticism. A while back when someone asked after suitable Quad ESL alternatives, you recommended the AN-K saying it has the transparency of Quads and the dynamics of horns, how did you arrive at that opinion when you have NEVER heard the Quad ESL? The are many things I could use you to describe your behaviour and many of them are not complimentary, your behaviour sometimes borders on lunacy, I have yet to come across another person who is so desperate for validation and approval as you are and anytime you did not receive it, you seem to take leave temporary leave of your senses, describing you as a schizophrenic character is complimentary.

[Florian]

Just as a tip from me to you in all friendlyness and respect TAH but have you ever asked yourself how it is possible for one man to have such a huge amount of audio stores in his area that dont get tired of a non-purchasing person to walk in there everyday to listen to their speakers? Or how those dealers carry every speaker that is discussed on these forums with measurements and cut down remarks? Or how its possible for him to be able to supposely measure the most rarerest and most soldomly used speakers there are? I stopped reading and trying to discuss this, people are much smarter then that.

Flo

[RGA]

Let's leave out the B&Ws for a minute.

The joke about the Quads is just about wearing thin, care to express your experience about the Quads at your dealer in detail? Following your story, sometime ago you listened to a pair of USED ESL-63s at your dealers, What was the setup? Did you ever consider that a pair of used ESL-63 might have ended up at the dealer because they were defective? When asked by LongtimeQuadowner to listen to the Quads at his place, why did you not take up the offer? He told you that he listened to the 20K AN-E at your dealer Soundhounds in all "Audio Note" super rig and came away preferring the Quads, cos they (the Quad's that is) were more open sounding and and as a result invited you on more one occasion to listen to the Quads at his place, you did not take up any of those offers yet you are content to bitterly criticize this selfsame pair of speakers that you have NEVER heard at every opportunity. You even have the audacity to make derogatory comments about other peoples opinion of this selfsame speaker that you have NEVER heard.

The same applies to the Genelec 8040 and the ELACs, as of this writing you have NEVER heard any of these speakers, yet you feel obliged at every opportunity to put your two pence worth of bitter criticism. A while back when someone asked after suitable Quad ESL alternatives, you recommended the AN-K saying it has the transparency of Quads and the dynamics of horns, how did you arrive at that opinion when you have NEVER heard the Quad ESL? The are many things I could use you to describe your behaviour and many of them are not complimentary, your behaviour sometimes borders on lunacy, I have yet to come across another person who is so desperate for validation and approval as you are and anytime you did not receive it, you seem to take leave temporary leave of your senses, describing you as a schizophrenic character is complimentary.

I never said anything bad about the sound of either Elac or Genelec -- we were discussing measured response at that time and the measured response didn't impress me and I and others explained why -- that does not at all mean that I won;t like them if I heard them in person.

As for the ESl 63 I said that i would give them another try and I accepted longtimeQuadowners invite but he started making excuses about moving to a new place and that the system would not be as good as it could be - well most systesm are in rooms that are not perfect but a big part of a decent speaker is to sound good in less than ideal rooms and set-ups -- The AN E after all in blind listening sessions at Hi-fi choice is placed in BAD position in a room that is very poor for that speaker and it still outperformed much of the competition enough for them to buy them. So in a less than ideal set-up I expect and DEMAND that rooms not be held as an excuse for lousy sound. Commercial Electronics does nto sell used speakers that are defective - the equipment was SS (Bryston and Arcam was on the shelf). The room was roughly 19 X 17 with an open hall on one side - this is also where I heard proac's big floorstander several months later (which was vastly better).

I would gladly listen to Longtime quad owners 57 - but JNR had the 57 stacked for 30 years and went to the AN E with no regrets. The 57 I'm told has less bass than the 63 which already has very little -- so with regards to longtimequadonwer I would really like to have both speakers in the same room at the same time.

In fact if you would like to make a friendly wager we could run an independant preference based blind listening session with the Quad (any model) any amplifier versus just say AN J/Spe/OTO/3.1 one boxed player. If you're willing I may be able to get the services of 20 Professionally trained Jazz musicians to attend an all day listening session - two equal rooms of your choosing in one of the local hotels here. It would run about $500.00Cad to get the listeners - being students paying them $30.00 each to spend a day listening to tunes they may bite. An additional $100.00 for lunch for them. I'd certainly go in half on this. I would be willing to bet that no less that 80% would choose the AN set-up. With your engineering degree you surely could set-up the room and speakers better than me. I can only afford one hotel for one day so it would only give me a couple hours to set up the room -- you can have as much time as you need and I will allow you to use any room treatment or graphic EQ you wish - I get to use neither and can only earball the sound.

We will use the same music in both rooms that run the entire gambit classical to triphop dance etc. Listeners at the end of the day fill in the card as to which room they liked better and why. Both rooms systems will be darkened out so no one can see the gear and both rooms will be played to the same volume level based off a 1khz test tione at a distance of 6-8 feet - say 75db - 85. Simple. I can provide further details if I get some interest on your end. There is no way to PROVE a subjective experience but with professionally trained independant musicians it's sure more credible than OWNERS of the set-ups in question.