Audio Note speaker design

[theaudiohobby]

You're right it could very be. However, his location does suggest otherwise, which makes it a little strange.

This is getting very interesting, EStat is wrong.

[theaudiohobby]

English is my native language. For better or for worse the thread is currently focused on moi.

E-Stat let's revisit your post and BoldEagles subsequent response

E-Stat:I have taken part in true ABX style DBTs and conducted a cable SBT at home. The obvious challenge with single blind tests is to eliminate any contact between tester and me to prevent any cueing. From the outset, I stated that I did so by having her make the switch while I was out of the room (I exit to rear door to another room between each trial) while she entered/exited via the front door and returned upstairs before I reentered. SNIP

I was accused of being a "typical audiophile not understanding over 35 years of psychoacoustic data". Naturally, I asked this guy why he thought the test was faulty given the test methodology

BoldEagle:
--SNIP--
Not all tests need to be done by blind or DBT to confirm the effects of a change. A measurment where the changes are of a magnitude known to be detectable works just as well; provided the nature of the measured change matches the character of the perceived change. In other words there is a valid pairing of cause and effect. Too often in this hobby, the cause and effect pairings are not valid. (I'm thinking of a coaxial patch cord test by a "cable guru" where perceived differences were attributed to the materials of construction, while the capacitance changes caused by those different materials were not documented or considered). DBT or not, the tests can lead to an erroneous, or at least highly suspect, conclusion. Which in turn leads to the issue of test design and the skill and depth of knowledge of the test designer. In a sci-fi story called "The Answerer", the last line was: "In order to ask a meaningful question, you already have to know most of the answer". This concludes my sermon for this Sunday.
E-Stat:Amen, preacher! -nt

I understand this to be Bold Eagle giving you a lecture on why your test may not be as sound as you think it is. You also felt the same way about it but thought it was directed to folks like me (not sure why) because in your response to RJ from the thread you excerpted, you said "The irony of course is that Jerry's sermon was addressed to guys like TAH for whom the reference was targeted. --SNIP--"

IMO, you very well knew which post I was referring to but decided to play dumb.

[E-Stat]

E-Stat let's revisit your post and BoldEagles subsequent response

First of all, if this is the series of discussions I had with my friend Jerry, why on earth did you not link this to me? I ask "where are Jerry's comments?" and you never provided the answer.

I understand this to be Bold Eagle giving you a lecture on why your test may not be as sound as you think it is.

Righty-O there S.O. ! LOL!

You really picked a bad example in which to project your incorrect assumptions. Actually, Jerry and I are friends and speak directly via email. I had business in northern Ohio and gave him a call. The result was a most enjoyable visit that ran well into the wee hours where we each shared some of our favorite music (I left several CDRs with him). Dammit, I had an early appointment the next day. Jerry is an engineer from way back and has a most pragmatic approach to audio. He has arguably the best tweaked pair of Advent speakers on the planet. I'll link to the discussion Jerry and I had concerning the topic "I'm pissed that some guy from nowhere has attacked my test procedure without reason".

Jerry is pissed

I agreed and provided yet another example of someone attacking my test methods without providing any substantiation of why that was. So, what happened next? Did he lecture me on "why your test may not be as sound as you think it is?" Huh? What are you smoking? Here's the actual response:

"About two years ago I did a blind test on the Golden Sound Intelligent Chip with my former lab manager. (it was supposed to mysteriously make CD's sound better by "treating them" through the steel cover of the player) It was nicely crafted and double blind, yet it stirred up a lot of controversy, including some dirty pool by a proponent of the chip. (the chip had no effect)

It got to the point some years back that I resist being referred to as an Audiophile. I much prefer labeling myself as an enthusiast or hobbyist, although I do have a few professional credits.

Not all tests need to be done by blind or DBT to confirm the effects of a change. A measurment where the changes are of a magnitude known to be detectable works just as well; provided the nature of the measured change matches the character of the perceived change. In other words there is a valid pairing of cause and effect. Too often in this hobby, the cause and effect pairings are not valid. (I'm thinking of a coaxial patch cord test by a "cable guru" where perceived differences were attributed to the materials of construction, while the capacitance changes caused by those different materials were not documented or considered). DBT or not, the tests can lead to an erroneous, or at least highly suspect, conclusion. Which in turn leads to the issue of test design and the skill and depth of knowledge of the test designer. In a sci-fi story called "The Answerer", the last line was: "In order to ask a meaningful question, you already have to know most of the answer".

This concludes my sermon for this Sunday."

You also felt the same way about it but thought it was directed to folks like me (not sure why) because in your response to RJ from the thread you excerpted, you said "The irony of course is that Jerry's sermon was addressed to guys like TAH for whom the reference was targeted.

I know you'll never get this, but I will respond for the benefit of anyone who actually cares about this farce. Jerry began with a post where he was upset that some guy having no specific knowledge of the details of a test he conducted attacked his method. I agreed and provided one of my examples. You will never answer the question I asked as to how my wife from another room cued me as to my cable choices (BTW, the results of that test were null - I could not detect any difference between a cheap cable and the JPS Labs stuff in a 0.5 meter connection ) when we never saw each other between her cable changes. Jerry responded with yet another case - mention of any sort to the specifics of my misery? No.

IMO, you very well knew which post I was referring to but decided to play dumb.

When all else fails...

rw

[Rich-n-Texas]

For me, this has become one very bizarre thread. Sorry I stuck my nose into it.

[E-Stat]

For me, this has become one very bizarre thread. Sorry I stuck my nose into it.

My apologies for the farce. Restraint is difficult.

rw

[Rich-n-Texas]

Well, the only thing I want to know E-Stat is, are we on the same page regarding whether or not TAH & Melvin Walker are one in the same?

Way way way too many similarities.

[theaudiohobby]

E-Stat,

I did not link to the thread because I supposed you knew which thread I was referring to? Secondly, the answer to your question was in the same thread anyhow and you event posted to that sub thread with much the same comments you posted here.

Bold Eagle (04/05/08): ...This concludes my sermon for this Sunday.
E-Stat(04/05/08): Amen preacher -nt
TAH (14/05/08):"** A measurement where the changes are of a magnitude known to be detectable works just as well ; provided the nature of the measured change matches the character of the perceived change **
Where the changes in those interconnects or power cables large enough to fulfill this criteria, did you bother with measurements at all, made worse by Kimber's paucity of specs. I hope that your amen, preacher! is in appreciation that your cables would have woefully failed the test above. "
Estat(14/05/08):Go back to Prophead and argue with wall (end of thread)

Here is my first post in the subsequent thread which is now the subject of your ridicule

TAH (18/05/08):Read more closely, those that dismiss a lot of cable voodoo do it on sound scientific basis, you on the other hand, on what basis do you make claims for Kimber Kable. By the way, I particularly enjoyed the lecture that Bold eagle gave you the other day, now that was good lecture on logical fallacies

Do you mean to tell me that you had forgotten all about the previous thread four days later?

Jerry responded with yet another case - mention of any sort to the specifics of my misery? No.

The excerpted thread does not contain any subsequent posts from Bold Eagle. So you must be referring to another thread, correct?

PS:Apologies feanor for highjacking your thread.

[Ajani]

Well, the only thing I want to know E-Stat is, are we on the same page regarding whether or not TAH & Melvin Walker are one in the same?

Way way way too many similarities.

I doubt they're the same person, but I suspect they have the same objectives.... Like with MW, the best approach is probably just to ignore him (or risk being bated into ridiculous, never-ending arguments)...

[E-Stat]

Do you mean to tell me that you had forgotten all about the previous thread four days later?

I remember most all of the discussions with my friend Jerry. We recently had a private email discussion concerning the crossovers in our Advents. None of our discussions have ever involved getting a lecture from him directed at me. You are dreaming. The *sermon* was addressed to the two individuals from the stories he told. In the one discussion you referenced to someone else, but never me, Jerry and I are commiserating about those who attack our test methods without knowing the details. He made no mention whatsoever as to my cable test since he has done the same and also found differences, most notably in use with one of his CD players. He frequently refers to his experience with the audible changes caused by cabling:

I share his experience

Mr. O, you certainly have a most unusual perspective on things. That's why I brought up the topic. Perhaps you may benefit from the knowledge that what you say is often confusing to others and inconsistent. Do whatever with that observation you like. End of transmission.

rw

[E-Stat]

Well, the only thing I want to know E-Stat is, are we on the same page regarding whether or not TAH & Melvin Walker are one in the same?

Nope, but there are certainly similarities in their approach. On the other hand, Melvin was quick to point out his background quite proudly. For some reason, TAH does not want others to know his heritage which is made evident by his name. A google search on my ordinary Scottish name results in 8850 hits. A search on his name reveals only 70. To each his own.

rw

[theaudiohobby]

I remember most all of the discussions with my friend Jerry.

And this is one of the occasions where you conveniently forgot the discussion.

We recently had a private email discussion concerning the crossovers in our Advents. None of our discussions have ever involved getting a lecture from him directed at me. You are dreaming. The *sermon* was addressed to the two individuals from the stories he told. In the one discussion you referenced to someone else, but never me, Jerry and I are commiserating about those who attack our test methods without knowing the details. He made no mention whatsoever as to my cable test since he has done the same and also found differences, most notably in use with one of his CD players. He frequently refers to his experience with the audible changes caused by cabling:

I share his experience

I am glad for you that you've had private email conversations with Jerry discussing Advents. However here you have chosen a poor example to illustrate any similarity between your cable experience and Jerry's because here Jerry shows that

1. There is a valid cause-effect pairing i.e. a measurable difference in cable capacitances results in an audible differences between two the cables involved and
2. The thread also sees Jerry largely agreeing with Peter Aczel and Soundmind on a core issue.

Can you claim that your KimberKable Power Cord SBT tests had a valid cause-effect pairing, the central issue in Jerry's sermon? Do you see eye to eye with Peter Aczel or Soundmind on the core issue discussed here?

you certainly have a most unusual perspective on things. That's why I brought up the topic. Perhaps you may benefit from the knowledge that what you say is often confusing to others and inconsistent. Do whatever with that observation you like.

rw

Of course, I will take it on board and improve subsequent board communication. That said, I am glad you brought up this thread as it serves to undermine your previous comments on my conduct and spotlights your tendency to intentionally obfuscate on occasion.

PS: Luvin Da Blues: E-Stat posts has answered that question about anonymous posting, in summary, we don't.

[GMichael]

It's good to see that we have picked up another, colorful, poster. It keeps this place hoppin". Now, where's Pix? Can you picture those two on the same thread?

[Feanor]

... thread goes south.

Pass me a brew
...

[GMichael]

Sorry Feanor,

I'll try to behave.

[kexodusc]

... thread goes south.

Pass me a brew
...

Mmmm....Sleeman Honey Brown Lager...
I have about half a dozen or so of those left...had some yesterday for the first time. Pretty damn good...

[JSE]

Mmmm....Sleeman Honey Brown Lager...
I have about half a dozen or so of those left...had some yesterday for the first time. Pretty damn good...

No clue what this thread is about but that Sleeman is some fine beer.

I've got 13 left. Had to special order a case to get it here to Texas. Worth every penny.

[GMichael]

No clue what this thread is about but that Sleeman is some fine beer.

I've got 13 left. Had to special order a case to get it here to Texas. Worth every penny.

Geez, someone mentions beer and look who shows up. Where were you for the fireworks? They were brilliant!