Anything else I should audition?

[wgriel]

the speakers i recently purchased, the Von Schweikert VR1. I am extremely happy with the sound i get from them, and they are beautiful to look at as well. I have the African Hazelwood finish, and i think a few others on this bord do as well.

Hi Duds,

thanks for the recommendation - those are beautiful finishes! I don't know if I can get them in my area, but if I find a dealer I'll give them a listen.

Bill

[Woochifer]

Yeah, that makes sense - I want to emphasize that in no way did I dislike the Paradigms - but it seemed a bit more forward than the B&W 603. I can totally understand someone loving the sound of the Studios, and I could happily live with them. But for the music I like the 600 series just seemed a bit more appropriate.

That's how it is once you get beyond the entry level stuff. Every speaker, even high end reference models, will have flaws of some kind. Once you get into the higher end stuff, the flaws will generally reduce in magnitude, but every speaker takes a somewhat different approach in how its voiced and designed. Sifting through them and identifying the ones that make your music come to life is all part of the hobby.

Maybe it's just because I'm fairly new at this, but what I can't understand is how so many people on these forums can be so derisive of any of these competently designed speakers. To me, everything I've listened to has sounded good, but some simply sound better than others. But reading some comments, you'd think listening to some of these speakers is a cruel form of torture! Do people really loathe the sounds of some of these speakers or is this just a childish way to justify their choices?

In no other hobby I can think of, aside from maybe wine tasting, are relatively narrow differences between products magnified to such an exaggerated extreme. All you have to do is read the magnitude of change sometimes ascribed to cables costing thousands of dollars to get an idea of how far this can go. With speakers, you got a lot of self-described audiophiles who have their preferences and favorites, and feel the need to prop their own choices up by taking everything else down. There are plenty of speakers that I don't care much for, but if someone else feels that they are the last word in realism and musicality, I don't take any issue with that. If you like B&W better, that does not equate to Paradigm being bad. But, there are people that post on forums like this one who will basically trash anything that doesn't fit their narrow preferences.

Unlike 20 or so years ago where bad speakers were easy to find, nowadays you won't find nearly as many specialty speakers that are grossly inaccurate or horrible sounding. You'll get people who try to convince otherwise, but in general with a brand like Paradigm or B&W, you're starting from a pretty good baseline. Where you go from that baseline is up to you. You already found something that you like, so now it's just a matter of whether you find something else that you like even better. And that's the part of the hobby that can be both good and bad -- the constant quest for the next upgrade.

[Duds]

Hey Bill

I'm assuming you checked them out on the VS website, trust me, the finish is much much better looking in person!! The dealer I got mine may be willing to ship a set to you for an audition. I know when I got mine he allowed me a 30 day trial period, and if I didnt like them I could return them for full refund. If you want, send me a private message and i'll give you the name of the dealer.

I also listened to B&W and Paradigm before my purchase. I liked the Studio 20's and also liked the 602s3's and even the 601s3's. I dont think you can go worng with any of them, they all have their own strengths, but only you can decide which ones sound better to you.

Good luck!

Hi Duds,

thanks for the recommendation - those are beautiful finishes! I don't know if I can get them in my area, but if I find a dealer I'll give them a listen.

Bill

[RICKY009]

Hello all,

I'm new here, and pretty new to the audio world. By way of introduction, I live in Victoria BC -- home of RGA's fav dealer I have only been interested in audio for about a year and half. That's when we bought a new house and I thought that it was time I got something better than computer speakers for sound.

Anyway, knowing nothing about this I bought a budget system consisting of a pair of Paradigm Phantoms, a Denon receiver (DRA395) and a Denon CD changer. And I absolutely loved it! I later added a pair of B&W DM600's for the kitchen - I've got an extremely open floor plan, so adding a small pair of speakers has really helped to fill the main living space with music.

Now, I'm starting to think I'd like to upgrade the Phantoms - I've been reading almost every review I can find (and finding most of them pretty useless) and listening to what I can.

So far I've auditioned Paradigm Studio 40's and B&W 603's, and I have to say that while I liked both, my preference was for the 603's. I know that B&W is getting slagged alot on this forum, but I really loved the sound and the looks of the 603's.

Oh, and looks do count as these speakers sit in a living room and I've got to make some concessions to the wife. I am next going to audition something from Boston Acoustics, probably the VR2 or VR3, but I'm not too sure what else I should listen to. Any suggestions?

Incidently, I wholeheartedly agree with RGA regarding Soundhounds - they are a class act (in fact, I just got back from there where I listened to a number of my CDs, and I've rarely had the pleasure of dealing with a business that is so helpful and accomodating).

Thanks for any thoughts or ideas,

Bill

DON'T LISTEN TO THE NEGATIVE B&W STUFF. THEY ARE AMONG THE FINEST LOUDSPEAKERS MADE IN THE WORLD. THAT BEING SAID, THEY ARE ON THE BRIGHT SIDE, BUT EXPERIMENTING WITH CABLES CAN HELP.

RECOMMENDED PRODUCTS FROM "THE ABSOLUTE SOUND" MAGAZINE": PSB ALPHA B, $249; EPOS ELS3, $329; USHER S520, $375; MONITOR AUDIO BRONZE B2, $399; INFINITY PRIMUS 360, $660; WHARFEDALE DIAMOND 9.6, $750; PSB T45/55, $749 AND $899; TOTEM RAINMAKER, $900; BOHLENDER GRAEBENER RADIA Z, $999; MAGNEPAN MG12/QR, $1099; SPENDOR S3/5 AND S3/5SE, $1099 AND $1399; REVEL CONCERTA F12, $1199; DYNAUDIO AUDIENCE 52SE, $1500. ALL ARE "PER PAIR", BY THE WAY.

[RICKY009]

Hello all,

I'm new here, and pretty new to the audio world. By way of introduction, I live in Victoria BC -- home of RGA's fav dealer I have only been interested in audio for about a year and half. That's when we bought a new house and I thought that it was time I got something better than computer speakers for sound.

Anyway, knowing nothing about this I bought a budget system consisting of a pair of Paradigm Phantoms, a Denon receiver (DRA395) and a Denon CD changer. And I absolutely loved it! I later added a pair of B&W DM600's for the kitchen - I've got an extremely open floor plan, so adding a small pair of speakers has really helped to fill the main living space with music.

Now, I'm starting to think I'd like to upgrade the Phantoms - I've been reading almost every review I can find (and finding most of them pretty useless) and listening to what I can.

So far I've auditioned Paradigm Studio 40's and B&W 603's, and I have to say that while I liked both, my preference was for the 603's. I know that B&W is getting slagged alot on this forum, but I really loved the sound and the looks of the 603's.

Oh, and looks do count as these speakers sit in a living room and I've got to make some concessions to the wife. I am next going to audition something from Boston Acoustics, probably the VR2 or VR3, but I'm not too sure what else I should listen to. Any suggestions?

Incidently, I wholeheartedly agree with RGA regarding Soundhounds - they are a class act (in fact, I just got back from there where I listened to a number of my CDs, and I've rarely had the pleasure of dealing with a business that is so helpful and accomodating).

Thanks for any thoughts or ideas,

Bill

I WROTE SOME RESPONSES SIMPLY TO GIVE ADVICE TO PEOPLE WHO ARE ASKING. I DON'T GET HUNG-UP ON WHAT MY FONT SIZE IS; WHETHER I USE CAPITAL LETTERS; IF INFORMATION IS UNDERLINED, BOLD, ITALICIZED, OR ANYTHING ELSE SOME OF THE OTHER PEOPLE GET SORE ABOUT REGARDING THE SIZE OF LETTERS OR NUMBERS.

[RICKY009]

the martinlogan statements cannot compare with ANYTHING THAT PARADIGM PRODUCES. PERIOD. they (m/l) are superior. they have twin towers-an electrostat panel, a tower of cones, then a pair of eight subwoofers, per side. obviously, they are for large rooms. but, paradigm doesn't come close with all their speakers, combined, to the m/l's statements which retail in excess of $70,000 and, I believe, require bi-amping for each side????????????

[RICKY009]

i auditioned, actually purchased a pair of martinlogan ASCENT'S. i only had them for a week or so before the woofer in one of the speakers went out. i suspected, and confirmed, with martinlogan, that the cone woofer was the weak link in the speaker. they also have a 4 ohm impedance, which means you are going to require a relatively high current amp. at least 100 wpc from a good amp/integrated amp or a very very good receiver, like SONY, PIONEER, OUTLAW, ETC.

[RICKY009]

i neglected to state that i was using a BRYSTON 4B ST POWER AMP, RATED AT 250 WPC @ 8 OHMS, AND 400 WPC @ 4 OHMS. I DID CRANK THEM, SO I PROBABLY BLEW THE WOOFER. THE ELECTROSTAT panel used in the martinlogans are superb.

[Mike Anderson]

The 1.6 was the only planar speaker readily available for demo within my price range, and it simply did not provide the appropriate amount of impact and forwardness with trip hop, electronica, rock music, and hip hop.

Just one nitpick here, but an important one:

"Electronica" covers a lot of ground. If you want head-pounding tecnho, that's one thing, and I see what you're saying.

But 70% of the stuff I listen to these days is "electronica", and almost all of it (e.g. ambient) does not require head pounding, chest-thumping dynamics.

For this stuff, the Maggies absolutely excel. It's just gorgeous, lush sound - full of beautiful, multi-layered details and a magnificent, complex timbre like I've never heard from another speaker.

[E-Stat]

Just one nitpick here, but an important one:

"Electronica" covers a lot of ground. If you want head-pounding tecnho, that's one thing, and I see what you're saying.

But 70% of the stuff I listen to these days is "electronica", and almost all of it (e.g. ambient) does not require head pounding, chest-thumping dynamics.

For this stuff, the Maggies absolutely excel. It's just gorgeous, lush sound - full of beautiful, multi-layered details and a magnificent, complex timbre like I've never heard from another speaker.

I agree. While I favor acoustical music, I rather enjoy the coherency, sound field, and delineation of my full range 'stats on pop and electronic music as well. I played Madonna and Radiohead on my (now sold) Acoustats for a couple of friends and they were amazed at the presentation. "This is better than live".

Different strokes for different folks. My long term friend and ex-TAS reviewer JWC likes his Avalons (it was his Dayton-Wrights that turned me onto full range electrostats thirty years ago).

rw

[RICKY009]

Von Shweikert Loudspeakers Are Very Very Good. Good Shopping And Good Choice

[wmloving]

Bill,

Just bought a pair of 2CE Sigs last weekend. Tried to love the B&W's for 5 years, but they did not have the full range of sound I was looking for; just not balanced. I think the reason they sound so bright is that there's not the bass response to balance them out. If the speaker only reproduces sound to 45Hz, you just won't be able to hear bass regardless of what cables, etc. you have. Thought about doing a subwoofer to fix this, but didn't want to go that way.

The Vandersteens have low end down around 30Hz (still missing 10 Hz if you ask me) and are incredibly well balanced and transparent. There are adjustments to mid and treble on the back of the speaker. I have not needed them so far, but the speakers are not really broken in yet.

I'm using these with 125 watts of clean power into 8 ohms and some entry level "audiophile" gear. The music sounds so much better than it ever did with the B&W's. It's just right. I haven't played them really loud yet, but I can't imagine they are going to sound bad unless I crank it to the clipping point.

I have a large room (den/kitchen combo) with 9 foot ceilings and they fill the room with detailed sound and warm accurate bass. They remind me of listening to Magnepans or Martin Logans, but with more bass and less transparency. A nice tradeoff if you ask me. Especially for the price. These can be had, including the stands, for a reasonable discount.

Hope you find something you like!

[Florian]

Finally someone with ears who actually listens! Gratulations on your purchase!

[wgriel]

I have a large room (den/kitchen combo) with 9 foot ceilings and they fill the room with detailed sound and warm accurate bass. They remind me of listening to Magnepans or Martin Logans, but with more bass and less transparency. A nice tradeoff if you ask me. Especially for the price. These can be had, including the stands, for a reasonable discount.

Hope you find something you like!

Thanks for the recommendation - I actually do have a room kind of like that. It's a large living room, but opens up to a dining room, then on to the kitchen. I've got bookshelves in the kitchen (B&W DM600's) and the sound is fine there, but I do want something more refined than the Paradigm Phantoms that I've currently got in the living room.

I don't know if there are any Vandersteen dealers anywhere near me, but I'll investigate that.

Bill