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Thread: $12k ?

  1. #1
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    $12k ?

    Hey Everyone,

    I hope you are all enjoying the music.

    I need to start searching for a speaker/amp/sub combination for my next system. I already have the pre, cd, and all cables.

    I will have $12K, which is repayment from my best friend for several favours over the years. I don't need to spend all of it, but will be looking for a subtantial combination.

    I listen all sorts of music, from Pizarrelli and Krall, to Snoop and Dr. Dre, to Rachmaninov.

    I have listened to and really like the Marting Logan's Aeon and Ascent, and KEF's Reference 201. For amps, I have always liked Bryston, but then found Musical Fidelity to be smoother (with less 'grip' on the bottom end), and McIntosh to be more lush. What I would like are some other models to search for. What is comptetive at this price point?

    Thanks for you help.

    THOB

  2. #2
    Silence of the spam Site Moderator Geoffcin's Avatar
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    Magnepan 20.1

    Quote Originally Posted by the hand of boredom
    Hey Everyone,

    I hope you are all enjoying the music.

    I need to start searching for a speaker/amp/sub combination for my next system. I already have the pre, cd, and all cables.

    I will have $12K, which is repayment from my best friend for several favours over the years. I don't need to spend all of it, but will be looking for a subtantial combination.

    I listen all sorts of music, from Pizarrelli and Krall, to Snoop and Dr. Dre, to Rachmaninov.

    I have listened to and really like the Marting Logan's Aeon and Ascent, and KEF's Reference 201. For amps, I have always liked Bryston, but then found Musical Fidelity to be smoother (with less 'grip' on the bottom end), and McIntosh to be more lush. What I would like are some other models to search for. What is comptetive at this price point?

    Thanks for you help.

    THOB
    Although you might have to stretch you budget a bit, the large maggies are an outstanding speaker, and can hold their own against any in the "unlimited" class.
    Audio;
    Ming Da MC34-AB 75wpc
    PS Audio Classic 250. 500wpc into 4 ohms.
    PS Audio 4.5 preamp,
    Marantz 6170 TT Shure M97e cart.
    Arcam Alpha 9 CD.- 24 bit dCS Ring DAC.
    Magnepan 3.6r speakers Oak/black,

  3. #3
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    Me? I would...

    Quote Originally Posted by the hand of boredom
    Hey Everyone,

    I hope you are all enjoying the music.

    I need to start searching for a speaker/amp/sub combination for my next system. I already have the pre, cd, and all cables.

    I will have $12K, which is repayment from my best friend for several favours over the years. I don't need to spend all of it, but will be looking for a subtantial combination.

    I listen all sorts of music, from Pizarrelli and Krall, to Snoop and Dr. Dre, to Rachmaninov.

    I have listened to and really like the Marting Logan's Aeon and Ascent, and KEF's Reference 201. For amps, I have always liked Bryston, but then found Musical Fidelity to be smoother (with less 'grip' on the bottom end), and McIntosh to be more lush. What I would like are some other models to search for. What is comptetive at this price point?

    Thanks for you help.

    THOB
    ...put most of the money in the bank... ya, know... that "rainy day" thing. O.K., your friend owes you a lot... why would you want to burn it up on a stereo? That money is extra... if you had the x-tra already, why didn't you do it earlier? Keep it.

    No one can tell you what is best... bring in your pre and listen to as many speakers as possible. I have always thought the pre makes a w-a-y bigger diff in final sound than the amp... it's up to you.

    I did like the Kef Ref series (albeit with problems for the $$$), and I have some bigger issues with Martin Logans... but they do some things VERY well. Again, your call.

    That's a lotta money... I would look around A LOT!

    I would also feel better with a $5K rig and $10 in reserve :^)

  4. #4
    RGA
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    Best advice is not rush and make sure you spend a lot of time at a dealer listening. When I go to an audio shop I usually spend the entire day there listening to stuff with a stop for lunch and to rest my ears. Not many dealers will take the time so find ones who do or take a vacation with your $12k and go to Soundhounds in Victoria BC. That way you can hear several speakers of varying designs. Nice to get a vacation out of the money too and usually Soundhounds turns me on to three or four new artists (new to me) that I can go out and buy albums. You'll be able to hear Mcintosh, Bryston, YBA and MF etc there all in the same room to boot. http://www.soundhounds.com/ They even have Magnepan -- My dealer there used to have the 20.1 and upgraded but he would have insights to offer -- while they don't carry the top line because they want to see how the lower models sell against their other lines you can get a decent idea.

    Martin Logan makes pretty good speakers and they look cool. Nothing wrong with them if you like them -- but I would make sure your audition is long -- the one thing I notice is the lack of panel woofer integration so it causes a lack of cohesiveness -- if you don't hear it then bonus and my other quibble is price which is pretty high for what you get. Magnepan has a similar imprint for less money and I find them a better value especially the 1.6 versus say the Aerius i (and ascent) and in some respects the Oddysy, and Prodigy.

    I would listen to lots of different systems and be sure to try single ended tube based high efficiency set-ups as well. For the wide range of music you listen to I would want the ability to play everything both macrodynamically and microdynamics with premium low level resolution capability and something that really has the follow through on decay.

  5. #5
    Audio Video Guy point_and_shoot's Avatar
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    I would also give Digital Phase a serious consideration. It is what I use and I could not be happier. I have owned Definitive, Snell, Mission, Klipsch, Phase Technology, etc. and I have auditioned a host of others. In my humble opinion these are the very best for the money. As an added benefit you could save about 80% of your budget. (if you did not order the flagship EP line)
    My HT Pictures The Moment of Truth......Digital Phase.

  6. #6
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    $12k? with that i would start with some Vandersteen 3a's or Quattro's and have enough left over for some nice amplification.

  7. #7
    Class of the clown GMichael's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RGA
    Best advice is not rush and make sure you spend a lot of time at a dealer listening. When I go to an audio shop I usually spend the entire day there listening to stuff with a stop for lunch and to rest my ears. Not many dealers will take the time so find ones who do or take a vacation with your $12k and go to Soundhounds in Victoria BC. That way you can hear several speakers of varying designs. Nice to get a vacation out of the money too and usually Soundhounds turns me on to three or four new artists (new to me) that I can go out and buy albums. You'll be able to hear Mcintosh, Bryston, YBA and MF etc there all in the same room to boot. http://www.soundhounds.com/ They even have Magnepan -- My dealer there used to have the 20.1 and upgraded but he would have insights to offer -- while they don't carry the top line because they want to see how the lower models sell against their other lines you can get a decent idea.

    Martin Logan makes pretty good speakers and they look cool. Nothing wrong with them if you like them -- but I would make sure your audition is long -- the one thing I notice is the lack of panel woofer integration so it causes a lack of cohesiveness -- if you don't hear it then bonus and my other quibble is price which is pretty high for what you get. Magnepan has a similar imprint for less money and I find them a better value especially the 1.6 versus say the Aerius i (and ascent) and in some respects the Oddysy, and Prodigy.

    I would listen to lots of different systems and be sure to try single ended tube based high efficiency set-ups as well. For the wide range of music you listen to I would want the ability to play everything both macrodynamically and microdynamics with premium low level resolution capability and something that really has the follow through on decay.
    The entire day there listening to stuff? Do you bring coffee for everyone?
    WARNING! - The Surgeon General has determined that, time spent listening to music is not deducted from one's lifespan.

  8. #8
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    how much do the 20.1 speakers go for? I remember hearing the 3.6 a few years ago, and found the presentation to be quite deep, where I prefer the presentation to be more into the room. That said, they were really clean and tranferred alot of info, ie, detail!!!

  9. #9
    Forum Regular Florian's Avatar
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    The 20.1 goes used for around 11K.
    Lots of music but not enough time for it all

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    Never heard of Digital Phase, and don't know where to get 'em, but that is the power of Google.

    I have eyed Vandersteen before but have not had a chance to hear any of their models yet.

    Jimmy, thank for the financial plan, do you work for Meryll Lynch or something? I don't need to spend the whole amount on a rig as I'm greatly aware of the laws of diminishing returns.

    I essentially spent years building a decent system consisting of Paradigm Reference, Musical Fidelity, Anthem with significant upgrades to each. Had some trouble with roommates, life troubles and the lot, and my best friend showed his true colours and brought me in, until I was able to get grounded again. To show my humble appreciation for his help in turning my life around, I donated my system to him. And over the years I have been as good a friend to him as he's been to me, and helped him deal with things that have gone on in his life.

    Soon, he will be repaying me for several favours that I Have done for him in the last few years, including helping with getting his house built. That is where the dough is coming from. Again I don't need to spend it all. Just looking for a well-rounded amp/speak/sub combo.

    I appreciate all your input.

    What amps can help me fill the void?

    THOB

  11. #11
    Forum Regular thepogue's Avatar
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    A few thoughts...

    it's easy to spend money...even 12K can be gone in a flash...so the REAL question is "What do you want to get for the $$$ spent"? I know that sounds simple...but it's really the bottom line. What sound do you like? (tubes warmth, SS punch, bla bal bla) How long are you going to keep the equipment?...if your heading down the "trade up road" then buy used (ALWAYS IMHO) and start in the middle of the product line. In this way you'll have some true life experience w/ the gear and you can move up the produce line or if it doesn't suit you move to something else...AND not lose yer shirt doing it! alos by living w/ the geag you can audtion other pieces with much more confidence in what your hearing (as opposed to what you own). I've swapped lots of gear in and out of my systme (home) and can tell you ther is no replacement for spending some long hours with gear. As stated above shop around...try lots of dealers and lots of gear...and find something close so you can build a relationship w/your local dealer...it will payoff for the both of you! Just me two cents.


    Peace-out, Pogue
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  12. #12
    Forum Regular Florian's Avatar
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    Ok let me take a stab at

    Used Magnepan MG3.6R for 3200$
    New Crossovers for Maggies (internal) 200$
    Active Crossover from Behringer for 300$
    Conrad Johnson P12 for Mid/Hi for 3400$
    Krell KSA250B Europe for Bass for 2400$
    Magnan Cable for speakers around 1500$
    Allen Wreight Sony 777ES SACD Player for 2500$

    This is a good step in the right direction in my book. But this is 13500$ with no room treatments. So lets see what we can do.

    We stick with the 3.6R for 3200$
    Build new passive x-overs for 400$
    Conrad Johnson P12 for 3400$
    Magnan Cable for speakers for 1500$
    Allen Wreight Sony 777ES SACD Player for 2500$
    Interconnects from Magnan too

    This is a system that will put almost all out there to shame and remains in a sane category. 11000$ for it all but you dont want to do that either since its pointless if you dont have the right room and you wont be able to know what steps to take next since this is in a different league then a Paradigm Reference.

    So let me take another stab at it.

    Magnepan 1.6R used for 1500$
    New Crossovers for 400$
    A Pathos Logos AMP for 3000$ used
    Allen Wreight Sony 777ES SACD Player for 2500$
    1000$ on room equipment treatments.
    2x used Carver True Subwoofers for 1500$ total

    This is a very satisfying system with a good mixture or all. For 9900$ very good also.

    Do you want a HT? What room is it? How much glass do you have? What music do you listen too? If you want some real detailed help then i can give you call and we can chat about this.

    Cheers

    Flo
    Lots of music but not enough time for it all

  13. #13
    Forum Regular thepogue's Avatar
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    See....

    I told you it ws easy to dump 12G's

    Pogue
    • Mark Levinson No. 27
    • Musical Fidelity 308cr
    • Martin Logan Prodigy's
    • Ariel Acoustics 10-T
    • Rega Planet CD
    • CJ Premier 9 DAC
    • Linn LP12 - Basik Plus - Valhalla
    • Benz Micro Cart.
    • Akai GX 747 Reel to Reel
    • Straight Wire Virtuoso Interconnects

  14. #14
    Forum Regular Florian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thepogue
    I told you it ws easy to dump 12G's

    Pogue
    And right you are my friend !
    Lots of music but not enough time for it all

  15. #15
    RGA
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    Quote Originally Posted by GMichael
    The entire day there listening to stuff? Do you bring coffee for everyone?
    No actually they traded speakers years ago for a capuccino making machine that Starbucks would be proud of. They were happy to note that the speakers are now worthless and the Capuccino machino has gone up in value. They make great Capuccino's which makes my 2 hour greyhound trip each way worth it.

    I intend to go again but I am waiting to see if they;re going to bring in the 20.1. In May or so they told me they would bring in the 3.6 and 20.1 if sales of the 1.6 and whatever the one down from it sold well. I am a bit surprised because I liked the 1.6 - but they carry stiffer competition when the price gets into the 3k+ range and it's a lot of outlay for a dealer to bring this expensive stuff in since they have to pay for it.

    Interestingly, one fellow purchased a $70,000.00 Single ended tube ampllifer from Soundhounds and there is a 7 month wait list as the designer was adamant that the right capacitor be used and there is no substitution and had to wait on the part -- with the dollar fluctuating at the time so much placing an order today and wait 7 months the sale could mean one is out $5k in currency conversion differences -- so the guy had to pay up front in cash as the credit card company also takes 3% and 3% on 70k is real money. Though they gave the guy a loaner Amp for the seven months. A teacher in my town was upgrading his speaker (shipped back to England to get it to a higher level) and they gave him my speakers as a loaner for several months which he in turn loaned out to several audiophile friends in town - as he was going on vacation.

    The dealer is pretty darn good in most every way in this regard because lending products around and letting people have it a while to decide and zero pressure people can just compare to whatever it is they currently have. Then Soundhounds can get another sale on the speaker, get more customers, but also maybe get that person's trade in speaker to sell as well. Free coffee and sometimes donuts, new tunes and a lot of stuff to compare. The website does not reflect all that they carry. they bring in stuff recommended to them by people they trust and have a number of stuff they try. They go to the CES every year to see what else they can bring in.

    It's the best dealer I have been to by a mile -- though I liked the dealer I had at Commercial Electronics for being a straight shooter and saving me from making bad and expensive upgrades that would have made him more money but not me happy. That is really really rare in my experience.

    I felt like a ramble - it's been a while.

  16. #16
    Forum Regular thepogue's Avatar
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    nice to see you back laddy.....

    two hour greyhound trip?...whew...you Da man....within two hours I can be in North Carolina or Maryland 3 hours north to DC...within an hour I'd guess I'm blessed with 8 or 9 dealers..but I really only hang in one shop. Digital Sound, they carry Linn, B&W, Classis, Rotel, Rega, bla bla bla...but all the real deals are used (like snagging my Prodigy's)


    next time your on a bus trip...come to virginia!..lol

    Pogue
    • Mark Levinson No. 27
    • Musical Fidelity 308cr
    • Martin Logan Prodigy's
    • Ariel Acoustics 10-T
    • Rega Planet CD
    • CJ Premier 9 DAC
    • Linn LP12 - Basik Plus - Valhalla
    • Benz Micro Cart.
    • Akai GX 747 Reel to Reel
    • Straight Wire Virtuoso Interconnects

  17. #17
    Audio Video Guy point_and_shoot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by the hand of boredom
    Never heard of Digital Phase, and don't know where to get 'em, but that is the power of Google.
    This is a picture of Digital Phase's upper end speaker models. I can get you the contact iformation if you so desire.
    My HT Pictures The Moment of Truth......Digital Phase.

  18. #18
    Class of the clown GMichael's Avatar
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    Ramble on if you like.

    I guess if he is spending $70k on an amp then he must have enough "disposable income" not to worry about another $5k. "Get me the right d.m capasitor!"

    Sounds like a nice day. Bus 2 hours, drink coffee, listen to hi-end systems, lunch, talk them into bringing more in, maybe spend a little, maybe not, more coffee, rest stop, and then bus back. Cool way to spend a Saturday.

    I could take the train to NYC. Only about an hour. White Plains has a few hi-end places also. Only about 45 minute drive. Po-town has a couple of small shops. Even closer at 30 minutes. Goshen too, about the same at 35 mins. The wife always makes other plans for us though. Cousin this, uncle that, women! Can't live with them, can't shoot them.
    WARNING! - The Surgeon General has determined that, time spent listening to music is not deducted from one's lifespan.

  19. #19
    Forum Regular Florian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GMichael
    Ramble on if you like.

    I guess if he is spending $70k on an amp then he must have enough "disposable income" not to worry about another $5k. "Get me the right d.m capasitor!"

    Sounds like a nice day. Bus 2 hours, drink coffee, listen to hi-end systems, lunch, talk them into bringing more in, maybe spend a little, maybe not, more coffee, rest stop, and then bus back. Cool way to spend a Saturday.

    I could take the train to NYC. Only about an hour. White Plains has a few hi-end places also. Only about 45 minute drive. Po-town has a couple of small shops. Even closer at 30 minutes. Goshen too, about the same at 35 mins. The wife always makes other plans for us though. Cousin this, uncle that, women! Can't live with them, can't shoot them.
    Hey buddy you know whats even better? To be able to actually buy those systems and own them instead of talking and rambling about systems you cant afford
    Lots of music but not enough time for it all

  20. #20
    Class of the clown GMichael's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Florian
    Hey buddy you know whats even better? To be able to actually buy those systems and own them instead of talking and rambling about systems you cant afford
    I'm sure that's true. But I don't think that's my lot in life. Too many other expenses. Maybe in a few years I'll have enough saved up to upgrade. Until then, I'll have to tweek what I have (pun intended) and listen to other's systems. It's not so bad though. I like my system.
    WARNING! - The Surgeon General has determined that, time spent listening to music is not deducted from one's lifespan.

  21. #21
    Forum Regular Florian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GMichael
    I'm sure that's true. But I don't think that's my lot in life. Too many other expenses. Maybe in a few years I'll have enough saved up to upgrade. Until then, I'll have to tweek what I have (pun intended) and listen to other's systems. It's not so bad though. I like my system.
    Well buddy, i actually meant RGA. He always writes how he spends days listen to systems in audio shops. Reads magazines and articles from Peter. Can you imagine owning a stereo store and putting up with a person all day who is not able to buy it anyways. Or listening to him ramble on about products he doesnt own, or ever heard. We have a friend in our forum who owns DIVAS and Wilson X2's and its a lot of fun talking to him since he actually owns those toys.
    Lots of music but not enough time for it all

  22. #22
    Class of the clown GMichael's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Florian
    Well buddy, i actually meant RGA. He always writes how he spends days listen to systems in audio shops. Reads magazines and articles from Peter. Can you imagine owning a stereo store and putting up with a person all day who is not able to buy it anyways. Or listening to him ramble on about products he doesnt own, or ever heard. We have a friend in our forum who owns DIVAS and Wilson X2's and its a lot of fun talking to him since he actually owns those toys.
    I figured you aimed those points at RGA. But you know you really like him. It's like when I was in middle school. We always picked on the ones we liked the most. It was all part of the proccess.
    WARNING! - The Surgeon General has determined that, time spent listening to music is not deducted from one's lifespan.

  23. #23
    Forum Regular Florian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GMichael
    I figured you aimed those points at RGA. But you know you really like him. It's like when I was in middle school. We always picked on the ones we liked the most. It was all part of the proccess.
    Ofcourse i like RGA, he is a freak just like me and i am amused by his responses.
    Lots of music but not enough time for it all

  24. #24
    Mutant from table 9
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    $12,000? Hmm... Here's one with CD and cassette with two twin twelves. It also comes in a nice case.
    http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1994-...QQcmdZViewItem

  25. #25
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    Thanks for the options...

    Quote Originally Posted by Florian
    Ok let me take a stab at

    Used Magnepan MG3.6R for 3200$
    New Crossovers for Maggies (internal) 200$
    Active Crossover from Behringer for 300$
    Conrad Johnson P12 for Mid/Hi for 3400$
    Krell KSA250B Europe for Bass for 2400$
    Magnan Cable for speakers around 1500$
    Allen Wreight Sony 777ES SACD Player for 2500$

    This is a good step in the right direction in my book. But this is 13500$ with no room treatments. So lets see what we can do.

    We stick with the 3.6R for 3200$
    Build new passive x-overs for 400$
    Conrad Johnson P12 for 3400$
    Magnan Cable for speakers for 1500$
    Allen Wreight Sony 777ES SACD Player for 2500$
    Interconnects from Magnan too

    This is a system that will put almost all out there to shame and remains in a sane category. 11000$ for it all but you dont want to do that either since its pointless if you dont have the right room and you wont be able to know what steps to take next since this is in a different league then a Paradigm Reference.

    So let me take another stab at it.

    Magnepan 1.6R used for 1500$
    New Crossovers for 400$
    A Pathos Logos AMP for 3000$ used
    Allen Wreight Sony 777ES SACD Player for 2500$
    1000$ on room equipment treatments.
    2x used Carver True Subwoofers for 1500$ total

    This is a very satisfying system with a good mixture or all. For 9900$ very good also.

    Do you want a HT? What room is it? How much glass do you have? What music do you listen too? If you want some real detailed help then i can give you call and we can chat about this.

    Cheers

    Flo
    This system would be used solely for the purpose of music in 2 channels only (including a sub). This would be my 'final' system I believe until I finish working and buy a dream system. I listen to all sorts of music... Male vocal jazz, female vocal jazz, Classical, Hip Hop, Reggae.

    As I know that I will move at least twice or the next few years, if I do purchase treatments, then they would need to be portable/non-permanent.

    I have already a $2000 cd player, pre-amp (although that 'could' be upgraded depending on what choice of amp and speakers I end up with) and all the cables I need. All I'm looking at are speakers (2), amps (monos), and a subwoofer (to which I really, really, really, like the Seismic 10 by Paradigm).

    THOB

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