Peruvian Vs. Pixelthis

[PeruvianSkies]

Since our flame wars are upsetting others and getting off-topic, I figured we could just have a separate thread to wage war inside, that way we won't offend anyone else.

[PeruvianSkies]

Let the battle begin: here comes the first response!

[pixelthis]

Since our flame wars are upsetting others and getting off-topic, I figured we could just have a separate thread to wage war inside, that way we won't offend anyone else.

Its YOUR flame war, you'll notice I only respond to your negative comments and insults
(well, mostly)
You may find it hard to beleive, but a lot of what I post is from hard learned life lessons,
when someone whos' been around for fifty years tells me something I generally
at least consider it, not just dismiss it out of hand.
I think why you are always attacking me is that I am a night owl, and you're flying a desk
somewhere at some low intensity job, at least you're one of the few thats online when I post.
So when I post something that offends your "audiophile mythology", that set of
"common knowledge" that a lot of people in this hobby hold, you light off with some barb,
and I answer.
A lot of it is web misperception, being "new" to the tribe means that I AM "NEW" TO THIS HOBBY, at least in your eyes, and since a lot of what I know isn't something I googled
five minutes ago I usually have a hard time providing background, you tend to pick things up as you go along, can't ever remember where, doesn't make the knowledge less valid
though.
I went into public service in 1980, was afraid of becoming too geeky, wanted more of the human experience, and sadly got more than I wanted sometimes.
But having limited funds I have always had to be carefull as to how much I put into this hobby, the more I know about how the industry works the more sound and video I can
have at a cheaper price.
But a lot of cherished beliefs of some are at stake. A lot of electronics sales, like a lot of things in this world, go directly to marketing.
Well, if you can see through the marketing BS you can have an enjoyable experience
at a reasonable price.
Most electronics parts come from a few places, B&W used to get some from dynaudio,
for instance, a lot of the parts in receivers, cd players, etc, are similar if not the same.
There are differences, but not as much as you might think.
A half a decade ago Harmon, Nad, Rotel, went into an enterprize together, built an industrial park in China.
At first the results were disasterous, but eventually they got the right kind of quality.
But everything coming out of that industrial park can't be very different.
Why do you think both Nad and Harmon Kardon receivers have low watt amps with what they call "high current"? BECAUSE THEY BOTH COME FROM THE SAME PLACE.
Its also why nad and Harmon suffered hugh quality control problems at the turn of the century, they were still trying to get this right.
I find such things fascinating, and the arguments about the differences between these two equally fascinating, the fruit off of one tree might have small differences but hardly noticable.
Same with these three manufacturers, the rest goes to marketing.
You got pissed when I compared your PSB speakers to Axioms. Why?
Product from one geograpical place tends to have great similarities, for no other reason than supply chains and sometimes something so trivial as two workers from different
companies "talking shop"'
Sometimes its deliberate. In Germany volkswagen is chevy, Audi is pontiac, B&W is olds,
and Mercedes is cadillac, this is well known. And its why ford mustangs from the late eighties had mercedes map lights, Ford of germany got them from the same place Mercedes did.
In other words German car makers divided up the market long ago, and electronics
companies often do the same.
Maybe you have some electronics experience, maybe not. But sit an Axiom top of the line next to your psb and there are more similarities than differences.
No doubt your PSB sounds better, a little more bass because one of the mids has been traded for a bass driver, and soft dome tweeters are used. But just because the two have differences doesn't mean they aren't cousins.
But my main point is that if I can't post such opinions without being called a "troll"
or "talkin trash" than how can you ever hope to have some spirited debate on this forum?
Or is your idea of "debate" talking about the same bland crap a thousand other sites talk about, with everybody agreeing and butt kissing and scared of stepping on one anothers toes? Then what is the point?
I want a decent HT system, one that plays great sounds as well, since I can't afford a seperates system, would help if I didnt have to shell out bucks for marketing parasites.
Milwalkee best beer tastes just as good as miller, miller just gets it off of the bottom of the vat.
I just think its informative to mention how manufacturers make their gear, sorry to disalusion you with a glimpse of the real world.
BTW how do you like my avatar? Thats what happened to the last self appointed "troll killer"

[PeruvianSkies]

Its YOUR flame war, you'll notice I only respond to your negative comments and insults
(well, mostly)
You may find it hard to beleive, but a lot of what I post is from hard learned life lessons,
when someone whos' been around for fifty years tells me something I generally
at least consider it, not just dismiss it out of hand.
I think why you are always attacking me is that I am a night owl, and you're flying a desk
somewhere at some low intensity job, at least you're one of the few thats online when I post.
So when I post something that offends your "audiophile mythology", that set of
"common knowledge" that a lot of people in this hobby hold, you light off with some barb,
and I answer.
A lot of it is web misperception, being "new" to the tribe means that I AM "NEW" TO THIS HOBBY, at least in your eyes, and since a lot of what I know isn't something I googled
five minutes ago I usually have a hard time providing background, you tend to pick things up as you go along, can't ever remember where, doesn't make the knowledge less valid
though.
I went into public service in 1980, was afraid of becoming too geeky, wanted more of the human experience, and sadly got more than I wanted sometimes.
But having limited funds I have always had to be carefull as to how much I put into this hobby, the more I know about how the industry works the more sound and video I can
have at a cheaper price.
But a lot of cherished beliefs of some are at stake. A lot of electronics sales, like a lot of things in this world, go directly to marketing.
Well, if you can see through the marketing BS you can have an enjoyable experience
at a reasonable price.
Most electronics parts come from a few places, B&W used to get some from dynaudio,
for instance, a lot of the parts in receivers, cd players, etc, are similar if not the same.
There are differences, but not as much as you might think.
A half a decade ago Harmon, Nad, Rotel, went into an enterprize together, built an industrial park in China.
At first the results were disasterous, but eventually they got the right kind of quality.
But everything coming out of that industrial park can't be very different.
Why do you think both Nad and Harmon Kardon receivers have low watt amps with what they call "high current"? BECAUSE THEY BOTH COME FROM THE SAME PLACE.
Its also why nad and Harmon suffered hugh quality control problems at the turn of the century, they were still trying to get this right.
I find such things fascinating, and the arguments about the differences between these two equally fascinating, the fruit off of one tree might have small differences but hardly noticable.
Same with these three manufacturers, the rest goes to marketing.
You got pissed when I compared your PSB speakers to Axioms. Why?
Product from one geograpical place tends to have great similarities, for no other reason than supply chains and sometimes something so trivial as two workers from different
companies "talking shop"'
Sometimes its deliberate. In Germany volkswagen is chevy, Audi is pontiac, B&W is olds,
and Mercedes is cadillac, this is well known. And its why ford mustangs from the late eighties had mercedes map lights, Ford of germany got them from the same place Mercedes did.
In other words German car makers divided up the market long ago, and electronics
companies often do the same.
Maybe you have some electronics experience, maybe not. But sit an Axiom top of the line next to your psb and there are more similarities than differences.
No doubt your PSB sounds better, a little more bass because one of the mids has been traded for a bass driver, and soft dome tweeters are used. But just because the two have differences doesn't mean they aren't cousins.
But my main point is that if I can't post such opinions without being called a "troll"
or "talkin trash" than how can you ever hope to have some spirited debate on this forum?
Or is your idea of "debate" talking about the same bland crap a thousand other sites talk about, with everybody agreeing and butt kissing and scared of stepping on one anothers toes? Then what is the point?
I want a decent HT system, one that plays great sounds as well, since I can't afford a seperates system, would help if I didnt have to shell out bucks for marketing parasites.
Milwalkee best beer tastes just as good as miller, miller just gets it off of the bottom of the vat.
I just think its informative to mention how manufacturers make their gear, sorry to disalusion you with a glimpse of the real world.
BTW how do you like my avatar? Thats what happened to the last self appointed "troll killer"

Alright round one!

Well, it only took you 50-minutes to write your reply, which would equate to 16WPM, not too shabby. That's near second grade level.

Again, you like to start things and then back peddle on them. Now you are claiming that PSB are better, but maybe to some small degree. Make up your mind! Have you taken PSB and put it next to Axiom? Nope. I have listened to both, although I never had them side by side, I have heard both and that included the current top-of-the-line Axiom, which is actually a nice speaker for it's price. The only speaker from PSB that I might think they are close to are the PSB Image T55's. The bass response reminds me of them and they also have a very dry sound to them, which is why I never really liked the T55's, especially in comparison to the Stratus line and certainly no where near the Platinum line.

How about you go and listen to the PSB Platinum line or even the new G-Design and get back with me on it. Until then, don't preach on something you know very little about or have very little (if any) direct experience on. I could care less if you have been around for 50 years, that still doesn't change the fact that you have not heard certain PSB speakers now does it?

[PeruvianSkies]

From this thread: Cheap HD DVD player coming this holiday season.
Quote:
Originally Posted by PeruvianSkies
Very good points. I think that's a good synopsis of what the average person is thinking.

From Pixelthis:

The "average" person is wondering how they can shave an extra five bucks off of that
25$ DVD player.
At the end of the day most will stick with DVD because its "good enough".
HT types will have to support these formats if they are gonna make it,
because for many the price of this cheapjack player is STILL too high.
Friends and relatives thought I was crazy when I paid 129 bucks for my last DVD player

Um, that's not why they think you are crazy...sorry to break that to you.

[pixelthis]

Alright round one!

Well, it only took you 50-minutes to write your reply, which would equate to 16WPM, not too shabby. That's near second grade level.

Again, you like to start things and then back peddle on them. Now you are claiming that PSB are better, but maybe to some small degree. Make up your mind! Have you taken PSB and put it next to Axiom? Nope. I have listened to both, although I never had them side by side, I have heard both and that included the current top-of-the-line Axiom, which is actually a nice speaker for it's price. The only speaker from PSB that I might think they are close to are the PSB Image T55's. The bass response reminds me of them and they also have a very dry sound to them, which is why I never really liked the T55's, especially in comparison to the Stratus line and certainly no where near the Platinum line.

How about you go and listen to the PSB Platinum line or even the new G-Design and get back with me on it. Until then, don't preach on something you know very little about or have very little (if any) direct experience on. I could care less if you have been around for 50 years, that still doesn't change the fact that you have not heard certain PSB speakers now does it?

I haven't heard every PSB speaker, neither have you.
I have spent a lot of time listening to my friends axioms, and I have heard PSB, and every Canuck speaker I have heard has the same uninspired bland sound.
You read the holy book, but only wonder about the printing process

[PeruvianSkies]

I haven't heard every PSB speaker, neither have you.
I have spent a lot of time listening to my friends axioms, and I have heard PSB, and every Canuck speaker I have heard has the same uninspired bland sound.
You read the holy book, but only wonder about the printing process

Just because you don't like the sound of PSB doesn't mean that they are bad speakers or that they are just like Axiom. Ok, so you've spent time with your friends Axioms, wow, but that doesn't justify calling PSB the same or similar now does it? I have more experience with PSB than any other speaker out there and have tested them out next to a large variety of speakers as well and they are (in my opinion) the best speakers for their price based on what I want in my music, which is a neutral sounding speaker that represents the original recording. I also enjoy a nice balance of highs, mids, and lows, which was not found to the same degree in the PSB line until the Platinums, which have a superb midrange, unlike the Axioms that I have heard.

One more thing: you believe that the PSB's are bland in sound and uninspired...well, I am inspired by WHAT I am listening to through my speakers and my speakers represent the recording quite well, maybe your problem is what you are listening to, not the speakers themselves and a true speaker should not manipulate that original recording.

[PeruvianSkies]

From this thread: http://forums.audioreview.com/showth...348#post207348

Whos pusing his buttons?
Everytime I post something he attacks it, EVERYTIME.
Hes just trying to bully me off of this site, doesnt like what I have to say

I only respond to certain fabrications that you present, such as LCD won, HD-DVD loss, or that PSBs are the same as Axiom. I am entitled to disagree with things that are untrue, which all 3 of these are at this point in time. Maybe LCD will win, maybe Blu-ray will win, and maybe one day Axioms will sound like PSB, but to pass these things off as facts right now is criminal, untrue, and only designed to stir controversy and arguments, which is exactly what trolls do. I have asked you nicely to use this place in a more positive way, I have tried to encourage you to stick around and be a respectful person, but you continue to bash away.

[GMichael]

Tisk tisk tisk....
What are we going to do with you two?
Maybe we should lock you in a room together until you make friends.

[Groundbeef]

Its YOUR flame war, you'll notice I only respond to your negative comments and insults
(well, mostly)
BTW how do you like my avatar? Thats what happened to the last self appointed "troll killer"

Only 4 more lines of writing would have qualified as a "manifesto". With luck you can get your next one published in the New York Times, just like the Unibomber. Well, come to think of it, his manifesto was actually a bit more structured, and coherent.

Keep trying though, its always good to make others laugh, its good for our health.

[Luvin Da Blues]

Maybe we should lock you in a room together until you make friends.

My vote would be for a cage match.

[RoyY51]

Looking past the one-upsmanship and the "mine's bigger than yours" games, what I see is this: we have two passionate audiophiles who both love music, love the act of reproducing music to best fit their individual tastes, and love sharing their knowledge with those of us who are less informed. I see two people with a lot more in common than they would like to admit.

That being said, don't stop the banter: good entertainment is hard to come by these days!

[Feanor]

Since our flame wars are upsetting others and getting off-topic, I figured we could just have a separate thread to wage war inside, that way we won't offend anyone else.

Up to a point, flame wars are amusing and we all win.

Beyond a certain point, they be come tedious and offensive, at which point we all lose.

The current flame war has remained in the "amusing" category longer than most but is beginning to fall down on the other side.

[GMichael]

Up to a point, flame wars are amusing and we all win.

Beyond a certain point, they be come tedious and offensive, at which point we all lose.

The current flame war has remained in the "amusing" category longer than most but is beginning to fall down on the other side.

I guess what we need is a list of rules for fair fighting. An example might be, "No punching the other guy on the chin when he's sticking his tongue out at you." Oh wait, that might be funny as h.ll. OK, how about, "No calling the other guy an idiot when he says something stupid."?Yeah, that's good. Now we're making progress. You could say instead, "You have an interesting point there, but I strongly disagree." No, I guess not. That would be boring. Screw the rules. Have at it guys. First one to cry looses his manhood in a pickle slice'r.

[PeruvianSkies]

Most of my posts that are against Pixelthis are about something that he said, rather than just flat-out insults. If you notice that his insults are off-topic and are juvenile, like whorehouses and comments about me not having a girlfriend etc etc. These are indeed desperate attempts from a troll trying to get under my skin since he doesn't have any other weapon to use other than to put down my equipment, my job, or other things about me that he doesn't really know anything about. My comments towards him are always in relation to something that he has talked about, like Randy Travis, timber in the voices, and speakers that are screwed together...these are all things that HE ACTUALLY SAID, not me.

[GMichael]

Most of my posts that are against Pixelthis are about something that he said, rather than just flat-out insults. If you notice that his insults are off-topic and are juvenile, like whorehouses and comments about me not having a girlfriend etc etc. These are indeed desperate attempts from a troll trying to get under my skin since he doesn't have any other weapon to use other than to put down my equipment, my job, or other things about me that he doesn't really know anything about. My comments towards him are always in relation to something that he has talked about, like Randy Travis, timber in the voices, and speakers that are screwed together...these are all things that HE ACTUALLY SAID, not me.

He said that you don't have a girlfriend? What does your wife say?

[jim goulding]

Nevermind. I confess to liking it. Your reps are good to me no matter what. Skies and Pix. Two faces of the same coin. The only thing that could be better to me is if you were women. LOL

[Mr Peabody]

I'd like to know where Pix found the info that Rotel, HK & NAD had gear built in the same factory. I'd sure be interested in seeing that. You picked the wrong 3 to prove your simularity theory, they are more different than alike. HK does claim high current but their big pitch was extremely wide frequency response. The only receiver you used to be able to find with a frequency response of 10-100k. NAD does their Dynamic Power on Demand thing which keeps reserves of power for when peak demands happen. If Rotel has a hook, I don't know it. The sound quality in general of the 3 are quite different as well. Just because units may have the same parts don't make them the same. Do you think all DVD & CD players who use Burr Brown conversion sound the same? Don't answer that. I'm afraid of the answer.

And, what the hell are you talking about with the cars? Caddy, Chevy, Pontiac are all GM and Olds don't even exist anymore. Audi and VW are under the same umbrella but BMW and Mercedes are to their own. If the German market is anything like the US, these companies compete with each other quite vigorously, I don't see any of them settling for their little piece of the pie.

Maybe to your taste buds Miller and Milwaukee's Best taste the same but anyone with taste left, I DON'T THINK SO!

Don't knock Google, you should try it, I think it would help you enormously.

Maybe you can share some of your X-ray marketing vision with us, give us some pointers. If everything built in the same place is the same then why did you pay more money for an Integra label when you could have settled for Onkyo, or, hey, it's all Japanese, you could have gotten a JVC. And they all have resistors, capacitors and transistors, etc. it's all the same isn't it?

Look Pix, keep your answers short and to the point, you expose too much when you ramble. So far, it hasn't hurt you because PS seems to have tunnel vision.

[PeruvianSkies]

I'd like to know where Pix found the info that Rotel, HK & NAD had gear built in the same factory. I'd sure be interested in seeing that. You picked the wrong 3 to prove your simularity theory, they are more different than alike. HK does claim high current but their big pitch was extremely wide frequency response. The only receiver you used to be able to find with a frequency response of 10-100k. NAD does their Dynamic Power on Demand thing which keeps reserves of power for when peak demands happen. If Rotel has a hook, I don't know it. The sound quality in general of the 3 are quite different as well. Just because units may have the same parts don't make them the same. Do you think all DVD & CD players who use Burr Brown conversion sound the same? Don't answer that. I'm afraid of the answer.

And, what the hell are you talking about with the cars? Caddy, Chevy, Pontiac are all GM and Olds don't even exist anymore. Audi and VW are under the same umbrella but BMW and Mercedes are to their own. If the German market is anything like the US, these companies compete with each other quite vigorously, I don't see any of them settling for their little piece of the pie.

Maybe to your taste buds Miller and Milwaukee's Best taste the same but anyone with taste left, I DON'T THINK SO!

Don't knock Google, you should try it, I think it would help you enormously.

Maybe you can share some of your X-ray marketing vision with us, give us some pointers. If everything built in the same place is the same then why did you pay more money for an Integra label when you could have settled for Onkyo, or, hey, it's all Japanese, you could have gotten a JVC. And they all have resistors, capacitors and transistors, etc. it's all the same isn't it?

Look Pix, keep your answers short and to the point, you expose too much when you ramble. So far, it hasn't hurt you because PS seems to have tunnel vision.

See Pix, it's not just me who doubts your BS that you put out, now let me get back into my tunnel.

[Luvin Da Blues]

or, hey, it's all Japanese, you could have gotten a JVC. And they all have resistors, capacitors and transistors, etc. it's all the same isn't it?

A JVC Kewl..Ya mean I coulda had a JVC receiver AND saved some coin.

That's it's I'm gunna downgrade if it all sounds the same anway....Thanks for the tip Mr.P

Maybe I'll put the money towards a Harley....No wait maybe a scooter...Ya that's it, a scooter

[PeruvianSkies]

A JVC Kewl..Ya mean I coulda had a JVC receiver AND saved some coin.

That's it's I'm gunna downgrade if it all sounds the same anway....Thanks for the tip Mr.P

Maybe I'll put the money towards a Harley....No wait maybe a scooter...Ya that's it, a scooter

Well, keep in mind...they are the same, but yet they are also different. Apples are exactly like Oranges, except that they taste different, are a different color, smell different, different texture, grow on different trees, and grow in different regions, but since they are both fruits...they are the same.

[Luvin Da Blues]

Well, keep in mind...they are the same, but yet they are also different. Apples are exactly like Oranges, except that they taste different, are a different color, smell different, different texture, grow on different trees, and grow in different regions, but since they are both fruits...they are the same.

"So I see" said the blind man to his deaf wife.


Kinda sounds like your talkin about women...god bless their souls

[PeruvianSkies]

He said that you don't have a girlfriend? What does your wife say?

My wife IS my girlfriend.

[PeruvianSkies]

My vote would be for a cage match.

You mean a real one? I am game for that.

[PeruvianSkies]

I haven't heard every PSB speaker, neither have you.
I have spent a lot of time listening to my friends axioms, and I have heard PSB, and every Canuck speaker I have heard has the same uninspired bland sound.
You read the holy book, but only wonder about the printing process

Which model of the Axioms were you listening to and what other gear was being used with his system?