Super tweeters

[Bernd]

I am getting tomorrow a pair of Ribbon Super tweeters for a 30 days evaluation. Has anybody here got any experience with super tweeters? What to listen for etc.?

Peace

Bernd

[Florian]

I have a 6ft 3in tall super tweeter sitting infront of me In its standard configuration it starts at 12Khz but i lowered it to 7Khz. It plays over 35Khz before doing funny stuff and eventough when running it alone it doesnt seem like there is much information coming from it but once you remove it you will find something missing. Ofcourse as you know me my friend, a all out ribbon system is my choice

[slbenz]

I am getting tomorrow a pair of Ribbon Super tweeters for a 30 days evaluation. Has anybody here got any experience with super tweeters? What to listen for etc.?

Peace

Bernd

Recently auditioned a supertweeter mod on a Magnepan 3.6. With the supertweeter, I heard better imaging, soundstage, bass and a more lifelike rendition of the instruments on the recording. Once the supertweeter was disconnected, the Magnepans sound more congested and harsh.

[Bernd]

Thanks for the replies. Just took delivery and will report back after the weekend.

Peace

Bernd

[pelly3s]

well it all really depends on what media you are listening to. if you are listening to a CD then there is no reason for a tweeter to go past 22kHz.

[Florian]

You will hear something missing even on CD if you dont run the ST. On the Maggies the ribbon is not a super tweeter but instead covers a wide range since the quassi midrange (only on 20R and 20.1R) is quite limited in HF extension. So it becomes very obvious on the Maggies if removed.


-Flo

[Bernd]

well it all really depends on what media you are listening to. if you are listening to a CD then there is no reason for a tweeter to go past 22kHz.

Thanks for your reply.90% Vinyl.

Bernd

[pelly3s]

Well with vinyl the super tweeter will make an improvement your brain responses to high frequencies even though you cant physically recognize it as noise.

but there is absolutely no information on a CD beyond 22kHz that is technically meaningful so in a case like that it seems like a waste of money most red book audio cd's filter out everything above that due to the whole Nyquist Limit and all that fun stuff

[Florian]

Well it depends from what frequency you run the tweeter from. A tweeter which can easily recreate a true 35Khz signal without doing any funny stuff will have a easier time reproducing the 22Khz signal so it can be quite beneficial for CD as i notice in my personal system. If you start it past 25Khz then i admit it wont do much but then again one should let the Super Tweeter start in the audible range. There are quite a few Martin Logan CLS owners using ribbon super tweeters. Also there is HDCD and EXF CD's from JVC and others with an extended frequency responce.

[Bernd]

Well the Tweeters went back to the dealer today.
They looked great and the finish was fantastic. I never wanted a piece of equipment work more than these.
For quiet acoustic music they added something that I understand. However on Rock and anything louder played they overpowered the midrange and the bass detail. But most enoying to me was the metal shine they put on everything. Very bright and to these ears artificial. I just couldn't live with them. I took them out and there it was the sound returned in all it's glory. I do not miss them one bit.
I am glad I tried them because you never stop learning.

The power of music gives you wings

Bernd

[Florian]

Well they cross at 7Khz and have a totally different dispersion so it is pretty much impossible to integrate them. Good thing you tried those tough, let me know when you listen to the Perigee.

[Bernd]

Will do. It's just time.
A couple of years ago I was persuaded to try another add-on (Subwoofer), man that turned into a mess as well. Booming around the house.No thanks. I guess I like well designed and balanced speakers and don't need any artifical enhancements.Lesson learned I guess.

Bernd

[bjornb17]

Recently auditioned a supertweeter mod on a Magnepan 3.6. With the supertweeter, I heard better imaging, soundstage, bass and a more lifelike rendition of the instruments on the recording. Once the supertweeter was disconnected, the Magnepans sound more congested and harsh.

How would the supertweeter help the bass? I am not disagreeing with you, since i have no experience with super tweeters, I am just trying to learn. Do they make the speakers sound more crisp, therefore giving bass the perception of being more defined since there is more distinction between the upper and lower frequencies?

[jtgofish]

I am getting tomorrow a pair of Ribbon Super tweeters for a 30 days evaluation. Has anybody here got any experience with super tweeters? What to listen for etc.?

Peace

Bernd

Super tweeters are not rocket science.I use a Fountek JP3 with a 1.5 micro farad cap sitting on top of my speakers.Work really well.Once your hear ribbon super tweeters there is no going back- better everything.

[Florian]

Super tweeters are not rocket science.I use a Fountek JP3 with a 1.5 micro farad cap sitting on top of my speakers.Work really well.Once your hear ribbon super tweeters there is no going back- better everything.

And then you take that super ribbon tweeter and use it for the midrange and then use it for the bass. Make the whole speaker a pure ribbon speaker ;-) Sorry, couldnt help myself but its addicting.

Anyways to the bass issue, it is known that frequencys even unaudible by humans to have an impact on the lower frequencys. Just try it with and without :-)

[Mike Anderson]

The place that's selling me my 1.6qr's offers a super tweeter upgrade for $1200. They claim it makes the 1.6 sound like the 3.6.

I'll check em out, but I'm skeptical. For one thing, I have definite loss of hearing in the high-frequency range, so I'm afraid it might be lost on me.

[Florian]

The place that's selling me my 1.6qr's offers a super tweeter upgrade for $1200. They claim it makes the 1.6 sound like the 3.6.

I'll check em out, but I'm skeptical. For one thing, I have definite loss of hearing in the high-frequency range, so I'm afraid it might be lost on me.

Dont worry Mike, the 3.6 has a lot more surface area, large midrange area and is overall a few steps above the 1.6 Save your money and buy a used 3.6 for 3K sometime and dont buy that ST-

[jtgofish]

Well the Tweeters went back to the dealer today.
They looked great and the finish was fantastic. I never wanted a piece of equipment work more than these.
For quiet acoustic music they added something that I understand. However on Rock and anything louder played they overpowered the midrange and the bass detail. But most enoying to me was the metal shine they put on everything. Very bright and to these ears artificial. I just couldn't live with them. I took them out and there it was the sound returned in all it's glory. I do not miss them one bit.
I am glad I tried them because you never stop learning.

The power of music gives you wings

Bernd

Sounds to me like these were more efficient than your tweeters[too loud]A well integrated super tweeter is barely noticeable sonically but just adds air,clarity, dynamics and improves imageing.Without the super tweeter things,especially CD can sound dry and dirty.In fact ribbon tweeters seem to make the difference between CD sounding at least as good as vinyl and it sounding blatently worse.Bass /timing also does seem to improve.Of course none of this makes technical sense but most people who experiment with ribbons used as super tweeters come to this conclusion.

JT

[Bernd]

Sounds to me like these were more efficient than your tweeters[too loud]A well integrated super tweeter is barely noticeable sonically but just adds air,clarity, dynamics and improves imageing.Without the super tweeter things,especially CD can sound dry and dirty.In fact ribbon tweeters seem to make the difference between CD sounding at least as good as vinyl and it sounding blatently worse.Bass /timing also does seem to improve.Of course none of this makes technical sense but most people who experiment with ribbons used as super tweeters come to this conclusion.

JT

As I said before, I really wanted these to work. My speakers are very efficient and the midrange and HF are served by a horn (Omniray) so very dynamic but very natural. Even on the lower sensitive setting of the tweeter I could not get away from an overpowering metallic sheen. I found that intrusive.
I ran a diagnostic test (Sweep tone) and got two distinct peaks with the tweeter in. Never had that without.My Speakers present a very even and balanced range. As Florian pointed out, the tweeter started at 7kHz and wouldn't integrate as the dispersion pattern would be different. But that aside the metallic adition was very unnatural to my ears.
Last night I played the same records as I did on the last night with the Tweeters in and it was just natural,dynamic,well lit staging and exactley how I like it.
Popular consensus is no indication of universal truth. While I understand that some people may like that particular sound, it did nothing for me.
I am glad I tried them though.

The power of music gives you wings

Bernd

[Florian]

I think this is a grea time to point out what i have been saying for years and that most never understood. No ribbon is created equal, no planar speaker is created equal. No magnetostatic speaker (Maggie) or electrostatic (Soundlab, Martin Logan CLS etc..) or pure ribbon speaker (Apogee) are equal.

I heard metallic sounding ribbons before from Elac and VMPS and i heard plasticy sound from a Martin Logan before.... There is a good chance that this particular driver simply doesnt sound good. It is crossed over too low for a super tweeter and its impossible to match them on your speakers or mine for that matter eventough my speakers only contain ribbons.

Nevermind this one, move on to the next. There is a good chance you wont buy another speaker and there is the equal chance you someday might change it. Just on a side note, it is EXTREMELY difficult to go from a small box or a great horn system to a huge ribbon array. They are VERY different and some people love it and some just dont. But it takes a great non-commerical system which is thought out to judge the differences. There is a minimal level of quality that is needed to talk about preference.

Cheers

Flo

[Bernd]

Well said Flo. I will listen to the Perigee's next Sunday and my next quest will then be to try and listen to an all Ribbon set up. Not that I am looking to replace my Speakers, just want to know for myself.
Like I said if I would find some spare change under the Floorboards I would go for the Zingali Home Monitiors right now. But in the Future who knows. Lot's to experience yet.
You're probably right that the tweeter just didn't sound good.On very quiet acoustic music it hinted what I wanted to experience, but turn the volume up or play some rock and it drew attention to itself.


Bernd

[Florian]

My supertweeter was crossed at 12000Hz and played almost nothing and i lowered it to 8000Hz but it is not a problem for me since all my drivers are from 100% the same material and swing inside the same magnet array.

To give you a hint on my crossover settings (simple) they are below 20Hz (starting range) to 550Hz on the bass panels and from 550Hz to 12000Hz and the super tweeter crosses with the midrange at 8000Hz and then goes to over 45000Hz before doing any funny stuff. And i mean REAL 45Khz and not the typical BS from other manufactures But you know what i mean anyways.

A Super tweeter that i think can work for you is the sperate Tannoy supertweeter.

[Bernd]

My supertweeter was crossed at 12000Hz and played almost nothing and i lowered it to 8000Hz but it is not a problem for me since all my drivers are from 100% the same material and swing inside the same magnet array.

To give you a hint on my crossover settings (simple) they are below 20Hz (starting range) to 550Hz on the bass panels and from 550Hz to 12000Hz and the super tweeter crosses with the midrange at 8000Hz and then goes to over 45000Hz before doing any funny stuff. And i mean REAL 45Khz and not the typical BS from other manufactures But you know what i mean anyways.

A Super tweeter that i think can work for you is the sperate Tannoy supertweeter.

Thanks. I might try the Tannoy ST100 to see (hear) how that sounds.

Bernd