Best Amplifier Choices under $3000 for AV123 LS6 speakers.

[devuonoste]

Feanor, I hope you will enjoy your retirement. The Pass Labs looks pretty nice. You are correct about there being a lot of choices with amps and the fact that separates give you more flexibility. As it stands now, I'm really interested in the CJ gear; however, I will keep doing some research on all possible setups.

[E-Stat]

However I'll be retiring in a few months and with a bit less income to play with, I'd go integrated if I need a new amp. If I had $4000 to "invest" I'd check out his Pass Labs INT-150 on Audiogon.

I could easily live with such an amp as well. My '81 Stasis has been utterly reliable. The INT-150 is one of the newer integrated designs that really doesn't use an active preamp stage. Some "nekked" pics can be found here.

rw

[devuonoste]

I just pulled the trigger on the MF xray V8!!! I think that will be a good first step in improving the sound of my setup. I'll post my impressions once it comes in and I have listed to it for a while.

[Mr Peabody]

Congrads, I think you'll be very happy with it.

[frenchmon]

That make three of us who are enjoying the X-RAY. I did let mine break in for a while. And when you get the Conrad Johnson, the X-ray should be a good fit. What cables are you using with your gear? Tomorrow I going to get a 3 pair of Analysis Plus cables. http://www.analysis-plus.com/prod_interconnects.html. I'll let you know what I think about them after I've had time to check them out.

frenchmon

[Mr Peabody]

A+ looks pretty good. I think the ones you ordered are showing locking RCA's, I like those. The prices get up there don't they? I didn't look at the entire site but I didn't see speaker connects right off. You probably should have gotten a set of the XLR's.

[devuonoste]

I am using the BJC RCA interconnects between the Emotiva and the Yammy. Any suggestions on what interconnects I should get to hook up the Xray to the Yammy. Hopefully, I will be hooking it up to a CJ amp/preamp in the near future, so if you could give me some suggestions that would be great. Frenchmon, I will be looking forward to your review of the A+ cables.

[Mr Peabody]

The BJC are fine for what you want to do now but once you upgrade the amp/preamp you might want to experiment with better cables.

www.spearitsound.com are CJ dealers and carry Siltech. They bought out the Siltech inventory. Last check their were some MXT New Yorker left in stock. These are excellent with CJ gear. I have also used them with various CD players. I mention this in case you wanted to grab them before they disappear. They aren't cheap though. They do have some cheaper in that series but I've never heard them. Some day down the road hopefully Frenchmon and I can get together to do some comparisons once he gets the A+

[frenchmon]

A+ looks pretty good. I think the ones you ordered are showing locking RCA's, I like those. The prices get up there don't they? I didn't look at the entire site but I didn't see speaker connects right off. You probably should have gotten a set of the XLR's.

Mr.Peabody cables can be pricey that's for sure. Because I bought mine from a local dealer I got a 20% discount off retail. I had a good conversation with him yesterday and he gives great discounts because he does not have the over head any more and he sells a great line of audio gear from his house. I asked him about Epos speakers M22i and he said he would sell a pair to me for $1500. That's a steal. I have not seen that deal any where on the internet. He sell all kinds of high end audio and cables. IF any one is interested his web site is http://www.speakerandstereostore.com/.

The A+ has many speaker cables ranging for $79 to $2,900. I didn't want the XLR cable seeing I didn't have true balanced connections. This is what A+ says about the cable I bought

For audiophiles who don't need XLR connections, we developed the superb-value Oval One interconnect.

It uses a braided signal conductor in our proprietary hollow oval design along with a braided outer shield mated to a true 75 ohm RCA connector with a low-loss dielectric.

Because Oval One is handmade using first-rate materials, it will outperform other cables costing many times more.

The 100-percent shield coverage ensures the very low noise floor that's essential to experiencing the entire dynamic range of symphonic music.

The RCA connection is solder-less, using a compression contact technique that spares the dielectric from damage that heat from soldering can cause. This technique also eliminates the poor signal transfer that results from a cold solder joint.

Our fussiness adds to the cost of the cable, but the performance increase is worth the added care.

frenchmon

[frenchmon]

I am using the BJC RCA interconnects between the Emotiva and the Yammy. Any suggestions on what interconnects I should get to hook up the Xray to the Yammy. Hopefully, I will be hooking it up to a CJ amp/preamp in the near future, so if you could give me some suggestions that would be great. Frenchmon, I will be looking forward to your review of the A+ cables.

Well I would say do a little research on what you think is a good cable. The only reason I had the monoprice cabe was because It was a quick fix to get my Rotel gear connected with out using the red and white cheap stuff. I knew I needed cable and planed on getting cable after all my upgrades. But hanging out with Mr.Peabody and doing a shootout with monopriced,BluejeanCable, Audio Note, and Transparent Cable, I saw how much detail I was missing. I decided to spend twice the price of BJC to get a more balanced, clearer, detailed sound. I read all the consumer reviews I could find about the Analysist Plus cable I could find. I had looked at this cable before but never really gave it any consideration until Mr.Peabody mentioned it. So I decided to take a closer look and liked what I saw. So do your research, ask those who have good cable and just go with you gut feelings.

frenchmon

[Mr Peabody]

I forgot about you deciding not to use XLR.

[devuonoste]

I purchased a pair of Siltech MXT New York's, based on Mr. P's suggestion, reviews I read and the fact that they are over 50% off. I know I may not be able to hear all of the benefits from having good interconnects through my Yammy, but I think they will come in handy when I purchase my 2ch amp or amps.

[Mr Peabody]

I think you'll like them. Bassite and one other member also use the NY'er.

[devuonoste]

I just received my xray today !!! I hooked it up with some cheap cables for the time being, as I'm still waiting for my Siltechs. So far I am very happy with the sound but I will wait to give my detailed thoughts until I hook up the Siltechs and let everything break in for a while. Not sure if the sound will actually improve, as there has been much debate on breakin, but I will let everyone know what I think.

One quick question though about the XXX power supply. I notice there is a slight rattle coming from the back where the interconnect connectors plug in (i.e. the multi prong connectors from the xray, etc) if you shake the unit a bit. Is this normal? I know some of the sleeves in the multi prong receiver connectors on the XXX were sticking out a bit and I pushed them in, and for some reason one of the hex screws on the back plate was not screwed in all the way. I screwed the hex screw/bolt in and ensured all connectors were OK but I still get a slight rattle if I shake the XXX gently. I know you're not supposed to shake components but I notice the rattle when I unpacked the XXX and I must have shaken it a little when I took it out of the wrapping. Hope there's no major issues; everything seems OK otherwise.

[frenchmon]

I just received my xray today !!! I hooked it up with some cheap cables for the time being, as I'm still waiting for my Siltechs.

I also hooked mine up with monoprice and I ordered new cables last week and still am waiting....

So far I am very happy with the sound but I will wait to give my detailed thoughts until I hook up the Siltechs and let everything break in for a while. Not sure if the sound will actually improve, as there has been much debate on breakin, but I will let everyone know what I think.

When I first got mine, it did sound good out of the box. I did read an review that said no breakin was needed. But at the time brand new, it sounded no better than my Rotel and I was disapointed. But the more I played it, the more it out classed the Rotel. So yes, I think it will improve once you get it broken in, it will sound as its designed to sound.

One quick question though about the XXX power supply. I notice there is a slight rattle coming from the back where the interconnect connectors plug in (i.e. the multi prong connectors from the xray, etc) if you shake the unit a bit. Is this normal? I know some of the sleeves in the multi prong receiver connectors on the XXX were sticking out a bit and I pushed them in, and for some reason one of the hex screws on the back plate was not screwed in all the way. I screwed the hex screw/bolt in and ensured all connectors were OK but I still get a slight rattle if I shake the XXX gently. I know you're not supposed to shake components but I notice the rattle when I unpacked the XXX and I must have shaken it a little when I took it out of the wrapping. Hope there's no major issues; everything seems OK otherwise.

I dont know if it normal or not, but I have no such experience with mine. I heard no rattle and everything looks fine. But if you sense there is something wrong, or if you are not satisfied, call Audio Advisor and they will send you another X-ray. I don't know how many they have left, so if you are going to exchange, do it asap. When I first got mine, there was a problem, so I called them, they said send it back when they sent me the labels. I then got them to send me another Xray at cost and when they recieved the defective one, they credited me my money back for the defective unit. I totally trust Audio advisor and I will have no problem purchasing from them in the future. And I totally love the X-ray.

frenchmon

[devuonoste]

Just got my Siltech interconnects and I was wondering how long does it normally take for the cables to break in? I've read some threads where guys are saying it took between 50-100 hours. Also, how long for the CD player to break in? I probably have around 25 hours on the CD player. After the first few hours of playing the CD player with the cheap interconnects, I did a comparison with my Toshiba upconverting DVD and I did not hear a significant difference, so I'm hoping that the addition of good cables and some more break in time will change things. At first I thought there was a difference and although the sound is great, when I switched to the Toshiba, I heard no significant decrease in sound quality. I know the Yammy may be a bottleneck; however, I should be hearing some difference, as the addition of the xray and the siltechs is not a cheap upgrade. I am no audiophile; however, I have a good ear for music and I do hear when my system improves (e.g. when I added the Emotiva and especially when I went from my Onix Rocket RS1000's to the AV123 LS6's). I will give my thoughs after I let the CD and the interconnects break in for a while.

[Mr Peabody]

Does the Yamaha have a "direct" mode so when listening to analog sources the signal bypasses any processing? If so, use it if you already aren't.

When you add a powerful amp you will hear a large difference in power (loudness) and control. A CD player or cable may not make that type of difference, it's more detail, character and response. I'm not sure the problem but there should be a significant diference when adding the Siltech, right out of the box. I actually did not detect any burn in. If there was it wasn't to where I noticed. The X-ray should blow away the Toshiba. You are using analog left/right RCA cables, right?

You aren't hearing any difference in the bass or high end response? Maybe try the Siltech between the receiver and the front two channels of the amp to see if any effect noticed. Also, when listening pick out a song and let it play for 30 seconds to a minute, pick out a couple details to focus on, then make the change and repeat, see if you hear any difference. If not, there is some type of set up problem or the Yamaha preamp section is even worse than I thought.

I'm sorry, I know you must be disappointed. But both products are very good. Any one else you know have a system you might try the gear in?

Where did you buy the Siltech from?

[devuonoste]

Hi Mr. P.
I bought the Siltechs from Spearit Sound like you suggested. I haven't made the comparison with the Siltechs yet, as I thought they needed to break in. I will try that ASAP. I will also try to switch the cables from receiver to the front two channels on the amp. The only comparison I made was when I had the cheap interconnects from the CD to the Yammy. I do use the direct mode every time I listen to 2ch. I did the comparisons as you suggested and I did notice a slight improvement; the sound was slightly more natural than the Toshiba; however, I am wondering if that was just a bias, as I was probably expecting the xray to be better. I did not get an improvement in detail, which suprised me and bass response was not improved either. I hope my problem was the cheap interconnects. I hope there will be a difference when I compare the xray and the siltechs over the Toshiba. With that being said, the sound is really nice, I just was hoping for a more significant improvement and I may get that once I do the comparison with the new interconnects. Not sure if this will make a difference but I have the xray hooked up to the CD-R in the regular audio component jack section of the Yammy and the Toshiba on DVD, in the digital input/output jack section of the yammy. The Toshiba is hooked up using coaxial digital out to the DVD digital input on the Yammy. The xray is just hooked up via the regular audio component section of the amp via the siltechs. Not sure if this may make a difference, but connecting to the digital input/output jacks may have better sound quality. Not sure though. I know the xray and the siltechs should improve things and that's why I am a bit dissapointed but I know they are great products and I don't doubt that the problem was with the crappy interconnects and/or there may be a setup issue I need to resolve. Also, I think in the future my purchase will be even more justified when I get a good amp for my 2ch setup. Another good thing is that I paid about $1350 vs $3250 when taxes, duty and exchange were added so I feel I got an amazing deal.

[Mr Peabody]

You definitely want the X-ray hooked up to the analog jacks. You can hook the Toshiba via digital, especially if you still use it for movies. But hooked up digital you will be using the Yamaha DAC's. So when comparing music you are comparing the Yamaha to the X-ray. The X-ray still should be quite a bit better. let me know what you hear with the Siltech in place with the X-ray.

[devuonoste]

Mr. P. I guess I should be OK with the setup I have, as the Xray is hooked up to the Audio component jack section which should be analog. Would there be a difference from CD to CD-R in that section, as the CD-R has a IN(PLAY) and OUT(REC) section where I could hook up the two RCA's and I obviously hooked them up to the IN(PLAY). I didn't hook up to CD because I have my blue ray hooked up to CD in the optical section via optical cables. Not sure if it will make a difference if I hook up to CD in the Audio component section vs CD-R. I know this may be confusing but there are a tonne of input/output hookups back there.
-

[Mr Peabody]

If I understand your set up correctly, it shouldn't make a difference

[devuonoste]

Well, I spent some time comparing the xray and siltechs with my Toshiba and I'm having a tough time telling the difference. Sometimes it seems like the xray is considerably better with respect to detail, dynamics, clarity, soundstage, the sound seems more enveloping and then I switch again to find that the differences are not significant and at times are not even audible. I switched the siltechs and put them between the yammy and the emo and put the BJC from the xray to the yammy and I still get the same result. One of my problems is that it takes a while to switch between the xray and the toshiba, as I have to get up, take the disc from one and put in the other and then sit back down and switch modes on the yammy; however, it isn't that much of a wait and I should be noticing a significant change but I've tried to focus on certain details within a track over about a minute or so and I switch back and forth a few times to ensure I'm doing a detailed analysis. I'll have to get my best friend to have a listen as it could be my ears. We both played the same instruments growing up and had the same music teachers and we both had a great ear for music growing up, but I guess you never know if my hearing has deteriorated to the point where it's affecting my analysis.

[frenchmon]

Just got my Siltech interconnects and I was wondering how long does it normally take for the cables to break in? I've read some threads where guys are saying it took between 50-100 hours. Also, how long for the CD player to break in? I probably have around 25 hours on the CD player. After the first few hours of playing the CD player with the cheap interconnects, I did a comparison with my Toshiba upconverting DVD and I did not hear a significant difference, so I'm hoping that the addition of good cables and some more break in time will change things. At first I thought there was a difference and although the sound is great, when I switched to the Toshiba, I heard no significant decrease in sound quality. I know the Yammy may be a bottleneck; however, I should be hearing some difference, as the addition of the xray and the siltechs is not a cheap upgrade. I am no audiophile; however, I have a good ear for music and I do hear when my system improves (e.g. when I added the Emotiva and especially when I went from my Onix Rocket RS1000's to the AV123 LS6's). I will give my thoughs after I let the CD and the interconnects break in for a while.

Well I got my Analysis Plus cables two days ago and they sound good out of the box and way better than what I had. They say about 100 hour to breakin, but I dont care how long, it can only get better. It will sound better as you continue to play it. Also it may depend on the other gear in the chain. The X-Ray has to be warmer than the Tosh....just give it time. At first the X-Ray and teh Rotel CDP where neck and neck, but after a while the X-Ray took off. I did leave the X-Ray on repeat all night and just let it play.

[frenchmon]

I am wondering if the Yammie is the weak link. That X-Ray and power supply is about or very close to a $3000 outfit before it went out of production this year. And the cable is also high end gear. You just may need a dedicated two channel preamp or integrated amp to go with the high end CDP.

[frenchmon]

Well, I spent some time comparing the xray and siltechs with my Toshiba and I'm having a tough time telling the difference. Sometimes it seems like the xray is considerably better with respect to detail, dynamics, clarity, soundstage, the sound seems more enveloping and then I switch again to find that the differences are not significant and at times are not even audible. I switched the siltechs and put them between the yammy and the emo and put the BJC from the xray to the yammy and I still get the same result. One of my problems is that it takes a while to switch between the xray and the toshiba, as I have to get up, take the disc from one and put in the other and then sit back down and switch modes on the yammy; however, it isn't that much of a wait and I should be noticing a significant change but I've tried to focus on certain details within a track over about a minute or so and I switch back and forth a few times to ensure I'm doing a detailed analysis. I'll have to get my best friend to have a listen as it could be my ears. We both played the same instruments growing up and had the same music teachers and we both had a great ear for music growing up, but I guess you never know if my hearing has deteriorated to the point where it's affecting my analysis.

You should be hearing better quality of music with the Xray and the siltechs. When I took out the monopriced cables I heard a better sound stage with the Analysis Plus than with the BJC. But I never heard the Xray and the BJC together, I did hear the BJC and monoprice and the Adcom and ERC-1. The point is you should hear a difference. But we heard the difference on dedicated separates and not a reciever amp combo. I believe there is a difference as my hometheater is a 5.1 receiver (Marantz) and amp combo and it can't touch my dedicated separates.

Listened for a warmer sound with the Xray, and listen for greater speration in the instruments, look for a more transparent and detailed sound. Do you here a bigger or smaller sound stage, and does it have depth or is it shallow... If you find these things in the positive, you know you are on your way to better sound. Also the positioning of your gear and speakers can make a big difference. How do you have you speakers, and is the CDP isolated . I have my CDP up in the air and it makes a big difference.


frenchmon