H1n1

[nightflier]

Fair enough about cracking down on people calling in sick when they are not, but is this what we should be doing when we have an epidemic? What about a future virus that is much more deadly? You can call it what you want, but in the end this is bad for the people taking care of the sick, it's bad for business, and ultimately bad for the survival of our society. Yes, vaccinations are important, but I think the problem with demerits is a much more insidious approach at a time like this - it's putting profits ahead of the general good, and that has been my critique all along. When are we going to grow up and realize that certain things like health care won't always have a price tag anyone can afford?

[blackraven]

NF, I'm on your side on this one. I was just presenting another side of the coin that has lead to this.

[ForeverAutumn]

I thought this article was interesting. It discusses the myths and incorrect assumptions that the science and research community has made regarding H1N1 and the flu in general.

[blackraven]

FA, nice find. It shows how much we still don't know about the Flu virus. It does support my posts though.

[Auricauricle]

Clearly the potential for abuse is a consideration (see post 74), but in my experience employers were most concerned about patterns rather than incidents of abuse. It's still appalling to read that healthcare employers are draconian enough to provide staff, regradless of the well being of those concerned. Employers of this ilk should bear some accountability when nosocomial infection rates correspond to staff illness...

[nightflier]

Well this certainly isn't what I like to read in the morning paper. I guess if you can afford it, you can buy even the CDC:

CDC Criticized for Distributing Scarce Flu Vaccines to Wall St. Firms

And calls are growing for an investigation into why health officials have handed out swine flu vaccines to some of Wall Street’s leading financial firms while they’re unavailable to most Americans. More than a dozen companies were given the vaccines, including Citigroup, Goldman Sachs and JPMorgan Chase. The Center for Disease Control says the companies met several criteria, including having a large number of employees and their own medical staff. But critics say the CDC has violated its own calls to distribute the vaccine only to those at highest risk. In a statement, Melanie Sloan of Citizens for Responsibility and Ethics in Washington said, “Although CREW has been unable to uncover the demographic makeup of [these companies], it seems safe to assume the vast majority of their employees are not pregnant women, infants and children, young adults up to 24 years old, and healthcare workers.” (CDC Criticized for Distributing Scarce Flu Vaccines to Wall St. Firms

[ForeverAutumn]

Originally Posted by nightflier

Well this certainly isn't what I like to read in the morning paper. I guess if you can afford it, you can buy even the CDC:

CDC Criticized for Distributing Scarce Flu Vaccines to Wall St. Firms

We've had similar issues in Canada. Last week, when only high risk people were supposed to be getting vaccinated, The Calgary Flames hockey team had a private vaccination clinic for team members and their families. It was approved by the Alberta government. And, apparently, a private medical clinic in Toronto received 3000 vaccinations for their clientele, who are rich but not necessarily high risk...approved by the Ontario government.

Meanwhile, my doctor, who has 100 patients on a high-risk list has recieved only one vial of the vaccination, this morning.

Vaccinations for the general public aren't supposed to start until Monday.

[ForeverAutumn]

Okay, this is going a bit too far. This quote came from an article about members of hospital Board of Directors getting vaccinated.

"What we are seeing evokes scenes from the Titanic, the privileged pushing to the front and leaving vulnerable women and children to a chilling fate," said Sharleen Stewart of the Service Employees International Union Canada.

The Titanic? Seriously? I certainly hope our ship isn't sinking.

http://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/capress/0...health_ont_flu

[Auricauricle]

Won't be long before they barricade the clinics...

[blackraven]

Its the Ultra wealthy taking care of their own. Money talks!

[Auricauricle]

Yep. Survival of the fattest!

[nightflier]

Well not to get overly dramatic about it, but our doctor has the vaccine in stock and we decided as a family to get the vaccine after all. I better bring something to read, I hear the lines are long.

[ForeverAutumn]

Originally Posted by nightflier

Well not to get overly dramatic about it, but our doctor has the vaccine in stock and we decided as a family to get the vaccine after all. I better bring something to read, I hear the lines are long.

In my own humble opinion...good decision. Some people that I know (myself included) experienced a sore arm for the next few days after their shot. So, just as a precaution, my advice is if you're right handed then get the shot in your left arm (and vice versa).

Happy vaccination!

[nightflier]

No soreness, at least not for me. The kids are a bit listless, but I gess that's understandable. But this brings up another question: are they now contagious to others who have not received the vaccine? And if they are, then doesn't that spread the virus to people who otherwise wouldn't be exposed?

[ForeverAutumn]

Originally Posted by nightflier

No soreness, at least not for me. The kids are a bit listless, but I gess that's understandable. But this brings up another question: are they now contagious to others who have not received the vaccine? And if they are, then doesn't that spread the virus to people who otherwise wouldn't be exposed?

My understanding is that you cannot catch the flu (including H1N1) from the flu vaccines. There is no live virus in the vaccine. So, no, they are not contagious to anyone. Listlessness and mild flu-like symptoms can be a side affect that will pass, but is not the flu.

Perhaps one of our resident medical experts can confirm.

[nightflier]

Well, that's the official line from the CDC, too, but I'm not so sure. Maybe it's my distrustful nature, but if inocculated people are contageous, even slightly, that would skew the stats we're reading about in the papers, and thus adding to the hysteria.

Let me put it another way. Suppose you had your child in a daycare, and you vaccinated your child, but the other parents didn't. Several days later, several of the children became very sick, and one was even hospitalized. Could that child's parents sue you for willfull endangerement? You could claim in your defence that your child was not the cause, but how sure would you be of that? Who would you trust to give you an accurate answer?

(ignoring for the sake of argument that Canadians don't sue people like we do here)

[dean_martin]

My brother-in-law was diagnosed with this at the end of last week. He's feeling a little better today, but his boss wants him back on the job Thursday. He sevices vending machines at large companies, hospitals, nursing homes, etc. It's my understanding that the hospitals and nursing homes are not going to let him back in that soon, but he'll still have to service machines in break rooms at large companies. Is this a recipe to spread? Hopefully, he'll ask his doctor before he gives it a try (but he may not if his boss puts too much pressure on him).

[ForeverAutumn]

Originally Posted by nightflier

You could claim in your defence that your child was not the cause, but how sure would you be of that?

I would be 100% sure. And good luck proving me wrong beyond a reasonable doubt.

[blackraven]

As long as he wears an N-95 mask and washes his hands he should be ok, but ideally you should be off work for 7-10 days after your fever resolves.

[nightflier]

Blackraven,

What is your take on whether inoculated people are contagious?

By the way, 7-10 days is entirely unrealistic for blue-collar workers. That just isn't going to happen.

[blackraven]

The injectable vaccine is a dead and you can't catch it. The intranasal vaccine is a modified or attenuated live flu virus that at most can cause a day or 2 of very mild cold like symptoms. Both vaccines can make you feel under the weather for a day or 2 as your immune system starts to respond just like any other vaccine.

But to answer your question, you can pass it on but the incidence is extremely low, it won't cause the flu but may cause mild cold like symptoms. This is why people who are immuno-compromised or are pregnant are not candidates for the intranasal vaccine but they can receive the injectable.

By the way, I think we have seen the peak of the H1N1 here. We are still seeing people with it but not the 15-20 people a day. We will see what happens when the weather gets colder to see if it peaks again.

[nightflier]

Originally Posted by blackraven

By the way, I think we have seen the peak of the H1N1 here. We are still seeing people with it but not the 15-20 people a day. We will see what happens when the weather gets colder to see if it peaks again.

and I just got the shot. How long will it take before I'm no longer susceptible?

[blackraven]

You are immune to the H1N1 in as little as 9 days but it could take a little longer. Has the news state whether or not it has peaked in CA?