H1n1

[Feanor]

.... She's a big proponent of the Dr. Sears approach to parenting and health (as opposed to the much more prevalent Ferber approach), and this goes for the recommendations on vaccines as well.

...

I checked out Sear's website at NF's link above.

Gosh! Blackraven, check it out. As a doctor I fear you are missing the big payoff. I have perhaps never seen a site with more advertising endorsements, links, and pop-ups than this one. Dr. Sear's Baby Sling for $60? Give me break. Say! how about Dr. B. Raven's DIY cardio-catheter kit or whatever? Surely there's a buck to be made.

Needless to say, Sear's has his own, The Vaccine Book, with a convienent link, to Amazon. (Hey, why am I posting these links?)

[ForeverAutumn]

Still, while 300 people are quite a lot (even one is too many), in terms of epidemiological data (sorry to be so clinical sounding), 300 is not a lot (considering the census of 2006 was roughly 12 million) (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ontario).

I agree. We haven't really talked so much here about the fear that the media is creating, which was really my point in my first post, starting this thread. 300 a year is not a lot in the grand scheme of things. 31 is almost insignificant (statistically speaking only, it's very significant to the families and friends of those 31 people). This is why I am so offended at the fear-mongering media that is creating the frenzy that has caused the long line-ups at the vaccination clinics.

I went to get my shot yesterday. There was a nurse at the end of the line, asking questions of everyone and turning away anyone who did not meet the high priority parameters. One woman was almost in tears when she was turned away and asked to come back next week. She was begging the nurse to allow her to get her vaccination. If the media reported the actual numbers as a percentage of the population and against a regular flu season, I'd bet that this woman would not have been so scared.

Our media and our government is handling this very poorly.

[Auricauricle]

Paranoia's awful for de noives, but it makes for GREAT ratings!

Um yer right....I meant 31...

[nightflier]

Yes, Dr. Sears has become a bit of a commercial target, and the wife & I disagree (amicably) about that as well, lol.

[blackraven]

I would not call the U.S. numbers of 200,000 people being hospitalized and 36,000 deaths each year from the flu insignificant compared to the total population. World wide the annual death toll is between 250,000 to 500,000!

Besides the loss of life, consider the economic impact of 200,000 hospitalizations which is in the hundreds of millions. Also consider the loss of productivity with millions of people staying home from work. When you look at the big picture, the impact of the flu upon society is tremendous.

[blackraven]

Whoa, that DR. Sears looks like he's into everything but being a hands on Dr.. He looks like he's a marketing machine.

One of my partners and I have been considering writing a book about our crazy experiences in the emergency dept. I could tell you stories that would have you laughing so hard you would be crying. Just the stories about all the rectal foreign bodies, vaginal foreign bodies and patients having sex in the ER alone could fill up a few chapters.

[Auricauricle]

In terms of loss of life, truly these numbers are quite significant in terms of impact to their families and communities (including to those in which they are employed, etc.). But this sort of significance is different than statistical and epidemiological significance, which looks at these numbers as mere drops in the bucket. Yes, we're talking about a lot of money, but I would assert that if you're looking for a place where the hemmorhage is coming from, you're spending too much time on the capillary beds (I know it's an awful metaphor--work with me!)....

[blackraven]

So you dont think 1/2 a million people dying a preventable death is significant? You can't look at how it compares to the total world population. Human life has to mean more than that!.

[Auricauricle]

Now don't go an' bait me, BR! Read my posts again. have a beer, and I'll burp an' debate with ya all night long...!

[dean_martin]

hey, BR. just wanted to thank you for participating and relating your experiences on the ground. Good info. I kind of regret posting my anarchist friend's view earlier in this thread, but hopefully by my tone everyone understood I wasn't endorsing it.

[blackraven]

Now don't go an' bait me, BR! Read my posts again. have a beer, and I'll burp an' debate with ya all night long...!

I've already had a few (Beers) to go along with the Sushi my daughter and I just went out for. No more baiting, I'm done.

GO YANKEES!

[noddin0ff]

Fear and paranoia in the media? nah...

The Daily Show With Jon Stewart	Mon - Thurs 11p / 10c
Doubt Break '09
www.thedailyshow.com
Daily Show Full Episodes Political Humor Health Care Crisis

[noddin0ff]

On the serious side, what I glean from the research community...

On vaccination safety, H1N1 vaccine is no different than normal flu vaccine. It's made the same way. If you don't fear normal flu vaccine, you have no reason to fear H1N1. If you fear flu vaccines in general, and your adequately informed, I can't add anything. Fear is fear.

As far as pandemic concerns go, for normal flu the population (us and or we) have all been experiencing flu for years. Wether you get vaccines or not you've likely had exposure to one or more flu strains and you have some acquired resistance to flu in general. Annual vaccines promote immunity to that years flavor du jour, but prior exposure to other flavors help due to cross immunity. However, the population has little to know exposure to the H1N1 variety of swine flu, thus we don't have any already acquired immunity. This doesn't necessarily mean that if you get H1N1 it will be worse than getting normal flu. What it means is that on a population level there is no herd immunity to prevent rapid spread. If you as an individual encounter H1N1 you have a much much greater likelyhood of getting the flu, getting sick, and spreading it than if you encountered normal flu.

Finally, the one peculiarity about H1N1 that is concerning people, and as far as I can tell noone really knows what the implications are, is that an unusually high (relative to normal flu) number of children are dying from H1N1. This is where the real alarm is. Alarming because 1) it's not what's been typically seen before and 2) causation is not evident. Nobody likes to see more kids die. And, remember, vaccinations aren't about you, they're about who you might infect.

I would speculate that H1N1 causes slightly more lung inflammation than normal flu and that infants with H1N1 have more congestion and fluid in the lungs due to this inflammation than with normal flu because they don't clear it as well as adults. The higher death rates are likely due to secondary infections or complications brought about by failure to adequately clear the lungs. I'm not a doctor. I'm just speculating from what I hear from my segment of the research community.

There is primary and recent literature to suggest that H1N1 is more severe on the lung than normal flu. The evidence is from animal models and you can click this link if you want to read it. It's very dense and I don't claim to understand it all in its entirety. Nature is one of the premier science journals. That doesn't mean everything is guaranteed to be true, it just means that the best peer reviewed science tends to get published there. If we knew the answers there wouldn't be a need for research.

[bondsam123]

Useful tips about the Flu
1.The rewards of eating 5 or more fruits and vegetables daily are worth the effort, proven to be strong weapons to fight the forces of flu and colds.
2.Keep tissues handy for coughs and sneezes. Then dispose of tissues in a "no-touch" container. This is a container that is emptied without touching the contents.
3.Cough or sneeze into your elbow or arm NOT your hands, and teach children to do the same. Droplets from coughing or sneezing can contain viruses that can cause other people to become sick. If you cough or sneeze into your hands, everything that you touch with your hands may expose others if they come in contact with those same surfaces.
4.Clean children's toys frequently to cut down on the number of germs, especially toys that can be put in the mouth.
5.If you are sick with a cold or flu, stay home and away from other people if possible. You will prevent the spread of your illness to others and also protect yourself from the more serious side effects of the flu or colds.
6.Don't stack coats in the workplace, childcare facilities, or other public areas. Stacking of coats can pass on cold or flu germs as well as ringworm and lice.
7.In the workplace, avoid sharing common items such as phones and computer keyboards. If you have to share, then wash your hands frequently and avoid touching your eyes, nose, or mouth.
8.Enclosed areas should be ventilated periodically to get rid of germs in the air. Consider opening a window in your home in a room that is not occupied to let some fresh air in.
9.Wash your hands frequently throughout the day. Always remember to turn off faucets with a paper towel. Teach your children the same healthy habits.
10.Caution! Flu germs found lurking under the mistletoe. If you have a cold or the flu, stay away. If you are healthy, consider yourself warned.
11.Bring a hand sanitizer to work with you and use it periodically, especially if you have a cold. You may want to apply a hand moisturizer or lotion to combat dryness of your hands.

[Auricauricle]

I've already had a few (Beers) to go along with the Sushi my daughter and I just went out for. No more baiting, I'm done.

Sushi! Oh, my good God! You could (gasp!) ingest a parasite! And to (gulp!) subject your daughter to the risk! Oh, the horror! The horror!

[blackraven]

Sushi! Oh, my good God! You could (gasp!) ingest a parasite! And to (gulp!) subject your daughter to the risk! Oh, the horror! The horror!

The worms crawl in, the worms crawl out, through your stomach and out your snout!

Drink enough alcohol and it will kill anything.

[Auricauricle]

Just returnin' the good favor, bro' mine! If you knew sushi like I knew sushi....BTW, what didja study out in Okla-home?

Hey, NO: That vid was EX-cellent!

[nightflier]

Oh, the horror! The horror!

Horror has a face... and you must make a friend of horror. Horror and moral terror are your friends. If they are not then they are enemies to be feared. They are truly enemies.

[Auricauricle]

Good call, NF! Think we can go ahead with the inoculation program?

[blackraven]

Just returnin' the good favor, bro' mine! If you knew sushi like I knew sushi....BTW, what didja study out in Okla-home?

Hey, NO: That vid was EX-cellent!

I went to college and medical school at Oklahoma State University. It was culture shock going there from Brooklyn NY. I had a great time though once I got used to "Damn Yankee, why don't you go back where you came from".

Believe me, I know all the bad things you can get from sushi and fish in general! I took a continuing medical education course on food borne pathogens, parasites, etc.. Its not pretty!

[Auricauricle]

Yep...Had the same experience when I moved to New York...."Damn Rednecks! Go home!"

[ForeverAutumn]

The first cat diagnosis...it appears that kitty caught the virus from the infected humans in the house.

http://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/afp/09110..._flu_us_animal

[nightflier]

...when companies penalize employees who take sick days. Take Wal-mart for example:

"At Wal-Mart, when employees miss one or more days because of illness or other reasons, they generally get a demerit point. Once employees obtain four points over a six-month period, they begin receiving warnings that can lead to dismissal." (Lack of Paid Sick Days May Worsen Flu Pandemic )

I bet they're pretty gung-ho about getting their employees vaccinated.

[ForeverAutumn]

I read an article recently that referred to this as "presenteeism". The opposite of absenteeism. It means coming to work while ill, getting little done, and spreading germs to the people around you.

For me, this article just reinforces the importance of getting vaccinated. Especially as the Christmas season nears and more people start spending time in crowded malls where most retail employees are paid hourly and are not getting paid for sick time off.

Of course the ideal solution is to find a way for companies that don't offer sick-day policies to start offering them. But that's not going to happen overnight. Especially in situations where employees are paid hourly and/or are part-time.

[blackraven]

My daughter is taking her senior year off college of to work in a private Alzheimer's unit so that she can get some medical experience so that she can apply to Nursing school next year. She worked for them all summer, filled in when they were short and worked on a moments notice, giving up her weekends and free time off. However, when she had to call in sick with fever or vomiting she received demerits.

And this past month she has been off work because some residents have died and they are over staffed. Luckily they have some new residents and she is back to wrk this week.

This is such BS, that employers can give you demerits for being ill, but not reward you as being a hard, reliable worker.

But I will side with the employers in that many workers call in sick when they are truly not sick, leaving the employer short handed on short notice. We see this all the time in the medical field. We also see people scrambling into the ER, usually on Sunday night to get a Dr's note stating that they were sick and needed to be off for the weekend when they are not truly sick. They are none too happy with us when we say no and they had to wait a couple of hours to see us! In addition they get at least a $200 bill for just walking in the door. But of course we never collect on it because insurance won't reimburse for that and those people don't pay their bills!