H1n1

[ForeverAutumn]

Swine Flu advice .......

If you wake up looking like this,

don't go to work!

But...that's what I look like everyday!

Where did you get that picture of me anyhow?

[dakatabg]

Ha ha ha! Nice picture

[JohnMichael]

But...that's what I look like everyday!

Where did you get that picture of me anyhow?

I must beg to differ. I have had the pleasure of meeting and spending time with ForeverAutmn in Chicago. She is lovely of face and beautiful of heart.

[Luvin Da Blues]

But...that's what I look like everyday!

Where did you get that picture of me anyhow?

Before make up? LOL

She is lovely of face and beautiful of heart.:

After make up?

I'm sure FA is very lovely to look either way.

Here's a better pic of FA..... (In my mind anyway)

[poppachubby]

I must beg to differ. I have had the pleasure of meeting and spending time with ForeverAutmn in Chicago. She is lovely of face and beautiful of heart.

John, do you live in Chi-town? I come through every now and again. It's a hub for training in my industry, printing. My company has bought a state of the art 9 colour press from Heidelberg. I would expect to be in Chicago early next year. Perhaps I will hear Krell then...

[JohnMichael]

John, do you live in Chi-town? I come through every now and again. It's a hub for training in my industry, printing. My company has bought a state of the art 9 colour press from Heidelberg. I would expect to be in Chicago early next year. Perhaps I will hear Krell then...

No I live in central Ohio but you are welcome to visit. A group of us, from AR, met in Chicago and had a great time. Chicago would be a great place to live if I had a little more coin. Look it is my neighbor Oprah.

[nightflier]

I never advocated that high-risk people should not get the vaccine. I said I wasn't taking it and I listed these reasons:

- My doctor's not taking it

Like it or not, there are many doctors who aren't too crazy about the vaccine either. But the more important point is that the swine flu is simply another flu. It is not more dangerous or deadly. To aggrandize H1N1 to a different status is just hysteria. If you don't habitually take a flu vaccine, and you are in good health, then the H1N1 vaccine is probably equally unnecessary for you.

Let's also remember that the regular flu is far more deadly: "Since the pandemic began in April, more than 1,000 deaths from H1N1 have occurred, including about 100 children, and more than 20,000 hospitalizations in the United States, according to the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. The CDC estimates that about 36,000 people die of seasonal flu-related causes annually, although the number fluctuates."

Now, I also read that the swine flu is killing more infants and babies. This is because younger people have not yet been exposed to many flu viruses and are therefore more susceptible. So yes, children would definietly fall under the higher-risk category as well.

- I read that the US vaccines are banned in Europe.

Let's remember that not all of us reading this discussion live the US. I don't known how safe the vaccine is in Canada, but there are several reports of issues here in the US because of the toxic additives such as squaline in the American manufactured vaccines:

The H1N1 Vaccine Is A Much Greater Risk To Your Health Than The Flu Itself

Thimerosal (about 1/2 of which is Mercury) is another concern:

Does the H1N1 vaccine contain mercury?

Although there are thimerosal-free vaccines out there, its availability is far scarcer than the H1N1 vaccine itself. Only a small percentage of mercury-free vaccine is available. What's more, the vaccines that are being exported are almost exclusively the thimerosal- laced variety.

...And do I even need to mention that the population that is being most pressured to accept the vaccine are children, i.e. those most susceptible to mercury poisoning?

This is why these products are having so much trouble being accepted in Europe:

Czech Republic Refuses Baxter Swine Flu Vaccine On Safety Grounds

And the public in Europe is also not having it, either:

Europeans Reject Swine Flu Vaccine

- If you get the regular flu, your chances of getting swine is something like 10%

Because of the close relationship between the viruses, if you have recently recovered from a regular bout with the flu, or you have been immunized against it, your risk to the swine flu is considerably reduced. I heard the 10% figure on the radio, but I could not find a similar number online. However, the Johns Hopkins Medical FAQ website states: "It's unclear at this time whether previous flu shots or having had the flu in the past will protect you. It may be that some partial protection may be provided by earlier shots or having had the flu."

- The vaccine is only 40% effective

This is an estimate and not enough data has come in yet to know for sure. I believe this was a cumulative figure, taking the other points I brought up into account as well. Last years' flu vaccine was not as effective as had been hoped, especially for adults: "the effectiveness of vaccines varies depending on the age group and underlying medical conditions. In general, seasonal flu vaccines are 70 to 90 percent effective, according to Dr. David Tayloe, president of the American Academy of Pediatrics. However, it is too early to determine the effectiveness of the H1N1 vaccine," according to the Chicago Tribune.

- H1N1 is now peaking, so it's about to decline

Well, that was not as precise as it was meant and requires a little more detail. The peak is next month, according to epidemiologists interviewed by the New York Times

But... it takes up to five weeks for a vaccinated person to become immune, according to the CDC (Newsweek). So even if you were to get immunized today, you would only be immune as the epidemic begins to decline.

NF, where do you get your info?

Online, the radio, and the papers I have regular access to: LA & NY Times, Christian Science Monitor, Newsweek, local papers and my wife gets the Chronicle of Higher Ed. Is that enough?

And all you vaccine haters stop telling Bull Shyte about the flu vaccine. The vaccine is life saving for certain people and you may convince someone who really needs it into not getting it.

I'm not a vaccine hater, but I have serious issues with this vaccine, because of the way the illness is being hyped, because of the way many companies are rushing the product out the door, and because of the way that our drug industry puts profit above everything else. There are some serious problems with this vaccine, and it is my personal choice to not go stand in a long line to get a vaccine that is not very effective for me and has some serious side-effect for me. I am not a high-risk patient so I have a different risk-tolerance level than others, and that is my choice.

While this is not relevant to our discussion, I also have serious concerns about the government and the private sector forcing vaccines on citizens and employees. Apparently some of the employees at your work had the same concerns.

The efficacy of the vaccine is much higher than 45% and it can also inpart partial immunity and lessen the severity of the illness. It has been up to 80% effective.

You can't know that. The data isn't in yet.

Risk of serious injury of the vaccine is very low and the danger of dying from the flu or having a serious complication is thousands of times higher if not millions.

...for high-risk individuals.

For all you fkr's who think that vaccine's are bad for you, just google pictures of people with small pox and read up how virrulent devastating and deadly it was.

Nice choice of words. Anyhow, we're not talking about smallpox and its vaccine. We're talking about H1N1.

Now I'm not advocating that people run out and get the vaccine, I'm just begging you to stop telling BS about them!

I'm only relaying what I've read in pretty mainstream news sources. And yes, you are in effect, telling everyone to go out and get vaccinated. Not even the CDC is willing to do that. Didn't you say that your "big concern with it is if it will mutate into a much more virrulent and deadly strain" and that the "vaccine can partially protect you if it does?" so how is that not advocating that everyone gets vaccinated?

2-if you come down with it, don't panic. Rest, drink plenty of liquids, take an over the counter cough medicine like Robitussin DM or the better tasting Delsm or Robitussin DM cough gels. If it doesn't have DM then it won't suppress your cough. Benadryl to dry up your post nasal drip will help with the cough. Take 2 extra strength tylenol and or 2 advil every 6 hours for fever and body aches. See your Dr. immediately for shortness of breath or intractable vomiting which we have been seeing occasionally with this flu that we don't typically see with the regular flu. (note that vomiting and diarrhea is not typical of the flu, that is usually an intestinal virus). Your fever should last about 3-5 days. You are contagious for another 8-10 days AFTER YOUR FEVER RESOLVES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Symptoms of the flu are high fever, severe body aches, chills, sore throat, cough and congestion, occasional nausea or vomiting.

Thank you for the advice, but the contagion period is actually 15 days, including 3 days before you even have symptoms. Unfortunately, there aren't many people who will be able or willing to take 15 days off from work. It's ironic that the best way to avoid the spread of the virus is through lack of contact, but our economic and social structure does not support such an approach at all. Businesses would come to a screeching halt - no wonder the vaccine is being pushed so hard. Maybe we should all stop screaming for a minute and think about that very important fact. There is more than one way to stop the spread of this virus, but only one that is A-OK for businesses: gota keep the people just healthy enough to keep slaving away, dumb, entertained, and most of all, scared.

I hope this helps!!!!!!!!!

So do I.

[poppachubby]

No I live in central Ohio but you are welcome to visit. A group of us, from AR, met in Chicago and had a great time. Chicago would be a great place to live if I had a little more coin. Look it is my neighbor Oprah.

I think for you it would be more like "Look it's my neighbour Oprah, please officer, loosen these cuffs." as Oprah positively identifies you as the guy who jumped over her gate.

[JohnMichael]

I think for you it would be more like "Look it's my neighbour Oprah, please officer, loosen these cuffs." as Oprah positively identifies you as the guy who jumped over her gate.

The only way I would jump her gate would be if Nate Berkus was visiting.

http://nateberkus.com/about.php

[poppachubby]

The only way I would jump her gate would be if Nate Berkus was visiting.

http://nateberkus.com/about.php

John, if I had to look at that chit eating grin everyday I'd be hangin from a chandelier. He has that certain "Je ne sais quoi I want to punch this guy"....lol. However, with a backing from Oprah I'm sure he is rolling in doe, and his bodyguards would make short work out of me. Whatever floats your boat my friend.

Hey I should have mentioned nice work with all of that spam. I found it really overwhelming to look at but I'm sure you've seen an "attack" like that before. Spam attack. The funny thing about german spam is you're no closer to understanding how to get Cialis at a premium. Having been to Germany on 2 occasions I can assure you, no Cialis is neccessary for those Frauleines. They get the Chubby special all natural baby!! (Don't tell my wife I said that)

I noticed tonight that if you drop your arrow on the greenies under someones name, it gives a silly message. I suppose I'm the only one who didn't know.

[blackraven]

NF, you totally missed my point. I'm not advocating that every one go out and get the flu vaccine, all I'm saying is that you should not discourage people from getting it based on myths, fears and extremely low risk of complications. Let me state it again, I'm worried that you could convince some one that needs that vaccine not to take it and that they could die from that mistake.

The reasons to get the H1N1 vaccine are if you are in a high risk group. It also helps with herd immunity, where you immunize enough of the population that it helps prevent the spread of the disease. But I guess your ok if nobody gets the vaccine and every one gets sick, some die or get permanently disabled, miss work, school, lose wages, sky rocket health care costs because of the visits to the Dr's office or Emergency Department.

And the regular flu what ever strain that might be right now because we havent seen it yet, will not convey any immunity to the H1N1 unless it is an H1N1 type.

And yes, the CDC is not recommending the vaccine to every one because of the shortage of the vaccine. Otherwise they would be recommendng it to all. They want to make sure enough is available to the high risk group and health care workers. And I totally agree with the CDC on this point. Taking a vaccine is a personal choice and I try not to push people into it. I just like for them to have the appropriate facts so that they can make an informed decision. And I am concerned as is the CDC that the flu virus can mutate into something more deadly. We are concerned about it every year that a flu virus can mutate into something more virulent and deadly and obviously it has with this virus which is more deadly to infants and children. And there is nothing wrong with advocating the flu vaccine. If every one got the vaccine, we would not have 36,000 people die each year from the flu (and yes, you got those numbers correct), but i guess your ok with that number of people dying. And let me reiterate again that the risk of dying or sustaining a life threatening complication of the disease is thousands of times if not millions of times greater than sustaining a serious complication from the vaccine.

Here's some vaccine info http://thefastertimes.com/clinicalup...-h1n1-vaccine/

http://content.nejm.org/cgi/content/full/NEJMoa0908535

http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/china/2...nt_8856605.htm


As far as mercury goes, we are exposed to more in our food supply, air and environment then the amount in a vaccine. I guess you don't eat fish which can contain high levels. AND THE H1N1 VACCINE IS A LIVE ATTENUATED VACCINE, IT IS INTRANASAL AND DOES NOT CONTAIN THIMEROSAL OR MECURY.
http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/pubs/vis...-laiv-h1n1.pdf

THE VACCINE DOES NOT TAKE 3 WEEKS TO CAUSE IMMUNITY, (AND SO WHAT IF IT TOOK 3WEEKS, THIS VIRUS IS GOING TO BE WITH US FOR A WHILE LONGER), BUT IT STARTS TO BE EFFECTIVE IN ABOUT 9-10DAYS.

THE PRELIMINARY DATA SHOWS THE VACCINE TO BE 70-90% EFFECTIVE SO FAR.

THERE HAVE NOT BEEN ANY SERIOUS COMPLICATIONS REPORTED FROM THE H1N1 VACCINE AND YOU ARE SPREADING UNTRUTHS ABOUT IT. YES. THE INJECTABLE VACCINES HAVE CONTAINED IT BUT THIS IS NOT INJECTABLE. THERE IS AN INECTABLE H1N1 VACCINE THAT DOES CONTAIN THIMEROSAL. THE INTRANASAL HAS BEEN THE ONE THATS BEEN GIVEN MOST. THE VACCINE FOR THE PLAIN OLD TYPE A FLU DOES CONTAIN IT AND THERE HAS NOT BEEN ANY WIDE SPREAD PROBLEMS REPROTED WITH THE INJECTABLE FLU VACCINE. THIMEROSAL HAS NOT BEEN PROVEN TO BE DANGEROUS!!
http://www.health.state.mn.us/divs/i...merosalfs.html
http://www.cdc.gov/h1n1flu/vaccinati...merosal_qa.htm



Young children are dying from H1N1 not because they have not been exposed to an H1N1 type but because they have an over reactive immune system which without getting too much into the pathophysiology of it, causes an out pouring of immune reactive substances that causes fluid to leak out of the capillaries in the lung. This intern causes you to drown in your own body fliuds and you suffocate to death! ( This is what happened in the great flu epidemic in the early 1900's and 30 million people died!) So in effect, your own body's immune system is killing you. Some are also dying of myocarditis where the virus infects the heart muscle causing heart failure and circulatory collapse. Others die because it triggers heart attacks, renal failure, staphylococcal pneumonia as well as other types of secondary infections and over whelming sepsis and septic shock. Infact I had an 83 year old today with H1N1 that got admitted to the intensive care unit and probably won't survive.

So go believe what you want. I'm on the front lines seeing it every day, staying current and up to date.

Oh! one last rebuttal. I did say that the infectious period is about 15 days. Lets count, I said 3 days before symptoms start, and 8-10 days once yor fever resolves which is about 4-5 days after your first show symtoms. 3+4+8=15! (the CDC and our infectious disease physicians say its more like 10 days after your fever breaks that you are contagious which would really make you possibly contagious for close to 3 weeks but the ;public does not want to hear that)

Have a good day, stay healthy and cover your cough!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[ForeverAutumn]

John, if I had to look at that chit eating grin everyday I'd be hangin from a chandelier.

I think that's exactly what John was hoping for.

Poppa, were you at the Print 09 conference in Chicago in September? If so, you were there the same time that we were!

[ForeverAutumn]

I must beg to differ. I have had the pleasure of meeting and spending time with ForeverAutmn in Chicago. She is lovely of face and beautiful of heart.

You're too sweet.

[poppachubby]

I think that's exactly what John was hoping for.

Poppa, were you at the Print 09 conference in Chicago in September? If so, you were there the same time that we were!

No FA, I was here slugging it out with this new press, it took about a month and a half to put it together. Plus, all kinds of odds and ends had to be fab'd for it. What aspect of the biz are you guys into?

[dakatabg]

Hey poppachubby i live in Chicago

[poppachubby]

Hey poppachubby i live in Chicago

Well then it's settled dak, I'm comin to your place for a listening session buddy. Maybe buy some sweet vintage too...

[noddin0ff]

Just to add to blackraven's accurate and informative post, I'm going to quote from one of my colleagues.

"Effective vaccination is not about protecting you, it's about protecting other people from you.

To put it another way, the best way for you not to get influenza is to not come into contact with people who have it--and standing next to a vaccinated person dramatically decreases those odds."

Now if you follow the link, be warned that Mike the Mad Biologist's politics and rhetoric are rabid liberal. BUT, his opinions, science, and statistics, especially in infectious disease are spot on. To further quote "Wash your damn hands!"

Step outside of yourself and pretend you are an at risk individual, someone elderly, immunocompromised, or for H1N1 very young. Your best defense against H1N1 is if those you interact with get vaccinated. Effective vaccination strategies are about herd immunity. You need a critical mass of immunized individuals in a population in order to prevent spread.

This isn't about you. This especially isn't about you if you are a typical healthy adult. You, in all likelihood, have nothing to fear from H1N1 other than some time off from work not feeling well. If you don't get a proven effective and safe vaccination for H1N1, you put others at risk. That's who this is about.

[nightflier]

Blackraven,

I think it is because you are on the front lines that you see the worst of this virus (and many more illnesses too). But what you see may not be what's happening in the world outside. If we were all virologists and ER doctors, confronted daily with the worst of what these illnesses bring, then we too would be paranoid. We likely wouldn't even leave our homes and we certainly would insist on every vaccine available for ourselves, our loved ones and anyone we worked with. But that is not the reality outside the ER - it is neither possible nor desirable to have such an approach to preventing the spread of the virus. It is simple hysteria to live like that and to advocate such measures.

I also would contend that your figures are disputable, and I've posted several links showing that they are. I'm not going to repeat them, but perhaps the figures from your personal surrounding are also not those of society at large. For example, there is considerable disagreement about the effectiveness of the vaccine, the time it takes to become immune after receiving it, and when the "epidemic" will reach its peak. There are simply too many variables in the body and in our social fabric, to lay down exact baselines and expectations about how, when, why, and where biological organisms behave.

Finally, you dismiss some very real concerns about the safety of the vaccine. You know as well as I do, although you certainly did a good job of covering it up, that only a portion of the vaccines are administered intranasaly. Likewise, most of what is being made for export is to be administered intravenously and will indeed contain both thimerosal and squalene. And even if the risk of complications is small, certainly not one in millions as you suggest, but let's agree that it is small, it is still a risk. This is a risk that we all need to think about when that needle is inserted into our own arms, or the arms of our children. These are not "myths, fears and extremely low risk," they are real, and an inevitably miserable product of a profit-driven drug industry.

But what I am most concerned with is that your point of view "from the front lines" is one that wholeheartedly embraces the hysteria of our (also profit-driven) media. What is so striking to me is that this hysteria is far less pronounced in Western Europe, for example. Europeans do have higher literacy and educational levels than our own, so maybe that's a clue. I'm not saying that these other countries don't take this virus seriously, but they seem to have a much more calm and reasoned approach than we do here in the US. The exaggerated hysteria I see here is not helping prevent the spread of this virus.

[ForeverAutumn]

nightflier, I can't speak for the rest of the world, but here in Ontario 31 people have died from H1N1. Tens of thousands of people have received the vaccine so far and there have been no reports of anyone dying from the vaccination.

In any given year, approximately 300 people in Ontario die from influenza. Again, I'm not aware of any vaccine related deaths.

While there may be questions about the effectiveness of the vaccine, I feel confident that the effective rate is higher than not getting the vaccine.

I have to agree with noddinOff's post. Nobody gives the flu to themselves. The more people who are vaccinated, the less likely that they will spread the virus to someone high risk. For you, the flu may be a 4 or 5 day inconvenience. For me, the flu is a 4 to 6 week serious illness. Just food for thought from my perspective.

[blackraven]

NF, I agree that there is hysteria in this country which is brought about by our media and the U.S.'s greater ignorance and fear. (People in this country have great fear and ignorance when it comes to their health. That's one of the reasons the emergency departments in this country are over crowded. At least 1/2 of the patients we see don't need to be there. One of my partners is Canadian and practiced there before moving here. When he arrived here, he could not believe the amount of neurotic, afraid people we see in the emergency room. He said the peolple in Canada are not as bad. I have seen this personally get worse over my 25 years in practice. This generation of people have no clue what to do for fever, common colds, bumps to the head,sprains etc.. ) The media has totally blown the H1N1 out of proportion and has scared people. It's what they do best. In general the H1N1 does not pose a great risk to human lives, other than the inconvenience of feeling lousy for several days and missing school or work (ask any one who has truly had a confirmed case and they will tell you that they thought they were dying.) . It does pose some risk to young children, people with chronic illnesses- a significant portion of the geriatric population in this country, diabetes, pulmonary diseases, heart disease and pregnant women (the flu can cause spontaneous miscarriages). We see about 10-20 people a day with the H1N1, most are fine but at least 4-5 have associated pneumonia, most of which is viral from the flu itself. Some of those people get admitted to the hospital and do just fine.

So I totally agree that there is some exaggerated hysteria about the flu but there is some real risk to a select population as well. The big deal about this flu and its hysteria is that infants and young children are dying from it where with past flu seasons this was not the case. And its just fodder for the media. But I will say this, with out the media, there would be a lot less children and high risk people getting vaccinated and there would be a few more deaths.

[blackraven]

Forever Autumn, you just stated my point. 31 people have died in Ontario and no one has died from the vaccine. If we had herd immunity or the majority of the population was vaccinated, those deaths could have been avoided. The question NF is how many deaths are acceptable? One, 31, hundreds, 36,000? I don't have the answer, but my job is to comfort people always, and sometimes heal them and occasionally save their lives. So of course I'm an advocate of most vaccines.

http://www.wtop.com/?nid=345&sid=1801968 90% success rate of the vaccine in pregnant women, and 10million doses given without serious complications

http://www.yourlunghealth.org/health...articles/h1n1/

http://familydoctor.org/online/famdo...cines/477.html

http://www.nwguardian.com/103/story/5878.html this one claims 90% success rate of the vaccine

[nightflier]

Blackraven, I don't disagree with the importance of the virus and the vaccine. So let's agree to disagree about my choice to be vaccinated. I also hear what you're saying about me being in a privileged position to make this choice, but I'm still going to stand by it. I'm not the type to get sick very often, but I'm certainly not against seeing my doctor when I need to.

FA, my wife has severe asthma (almost died twice since we've been married), so I can relate to your condition. My wife and I disagree on the regular flu vaccine, but we both share some apprehension about the hysteria surrounding H1N1. She has worked in the health care industry for years, so she reads up on this stuff a lot more than I do. For our children she's extremely careful about which, how often, how many at a time, and the content of the vaccines. She's a big proponent of the Dr. Sears approach to parenting and health (as opposed to the much more prevalent Ferber approach), and this goes for the recommendations on vaccines as well.

I realize that being married to someone with acute asthma could be reason enough to get the vaccine, but she lets me make that choice. I suppose that is why we do have such a good marriage. I will also say that if there was ever a serious threat to my family, I would not hesitate to get the vaccine, even if I was one of the unlucky few who would be affected by the additives. But right now, I don't believe that threat is there.

[blackraven]

Done!!! NF, I respect your concerns and decision not to get vaccinated. Certainly there have been vaccine related complications in the past with certain vaccines. Any time you put or ingest a foreign substance in your body there are potential complications. Common antibiotics and other medications cause many thousands of complications and even death in people each year.

[ForeverAutumn]

FA, my wife has severe asthma (almost died twice since we've been married), so I can relate to your condition.

I'm sorry to hear that. I, luckily, have never been hospitalized for my asthma, but I've come very close on several occasions...always as the result of a cold or flu. I'm lucky to have an excellent doctor who monitors me very closely and doesn't hesitate to start treatments at the first sign of symptoms.

I realize that being married to someone with acute asthma could be reason enough to get the vaccine, but she lets me make that choice. I suppose that is why we do have such a good marriage. I will also say that if there was ever a serious threat to my family, I would not hesitate to get the vaccine, even if I was one of the unlucky few who would be affected by the additives. But right now, I don't believe that threat is there.

I hope that you're right. I wish you all good health.

[Auricauricle]

I agree with a lot with what HyFi is saying here. As to my own thought on the matter, I submit the following.

For readers who are looking for sources of accurate and up-to-date information on the status of the HINI influenza virus and the technologies and delivery of healthcare services that will be brought to bear, I suggest looking at these two sources: The
New York City Department Health and Mental Hygiene http://www.nyc.gov/html/doh/html/imm/flu-ptk3.shtml and the Centers of Disease Control and Prevention http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/recs/vac-admin/default.htm.

I don’t subscribe to the notion that healthcare providers are either immune or susceptible to hysteria, particularly the kind that centers around the H1N1 situation. True, a number of people have been felled by the disease While it is reasonable to point out that viruses are highly mutable and that variables aplenty could undermine a vaccine’s effectiveness or the experience of side effects, the data needs to be carefully and reasonably pored over. The news agencies and press has correctly pointed out the need for caution, but I purport that things have been distorted and blown up to such an extent that the issue has become a bonfire of hyperbole and fear mongering.

A small correction should be made at this point: Flu vaccine and vaccines in general are not administered intravenously, but intramuscularly. Is there a risk associated with vaccines? Sure, but what is the risk of not being vaccinated? As well, there is a reason that certain demographics are targeted to receive these vaccines: chiefly caregivers, the very young and those older than 50 (http://www.immunize.org/catg.d/p4036.pdf). Simultaneously, I would hasten to point out that if one has lived a reasonably safe life and taken certain precautions against disease in the past and has not acquired or been afflicted with significant or rehabilitating illness in the past, they should not be overly concerned about this organism. It is one thing to be concerned, another to be so worked up that you can’t function

Still, FA makes the valuable assertion that not everyone can tolerate or has the resources to be “inconvenienced” by so minor an organism as the influenza virus (note the carefully restrained sarcastic undertone). Still, while 300 people are quite a lot (even one is too many), in terms of epidemiological data (sorry to be so clinical sounding), 300 is not a lot (considering the census of 2006 was roughly 12 million) (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ontario).

I do respect your choice to see your doctor so infrequently, Hyfi, but saying that you don’t always see your doctor when you “need to”, is a strange riposte, if only for philosophical reasons. What is considered a matter of medical necessity is principally a matter of personal consideration. If you think that having a headache is not warrantable to seek out medical care, that is your choice. I think you have explored this issue with care and I respect you for your sensitivity and mindfulness in the care of your wife and children. Still, I would not like to see such approaches advocated without the counterargument being given equal voice. Yes, folks need to know both positions regarding an argument, but (and here’s where the snob in me steps forth) I would also caution those who do so to beware of the wrath of the teeming masses. Going back to NO’s point, it is about protecting others, true; as healthcare providers and reasonable and rational citizens we should set an example.