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  1. #1
    Rocket Surgeon Swish's Avatar
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    Week 41: 50 Albums That Changed Music

    I think it's a little bit funny that they waited so long to have a representative from this genre, and it happens to be the only one in the 50. While I never cared much for disco, I won't deny its important place in music history. With no further ado, the selection is Chic - Chic (1977)

    The Chic Organisation revolutionised disco music in the late Seventies, reclaiming it from the naff Bee Gees and ensuring the pre-eminence of slickly produced party music in the charts for the next three decades. Its main men Nile Rodgers and Bernard Edwards patented a sound on their 1977 debut that was influential on bands from Duran Duran to Orange Juice. They also created a hit-making formula that mixed dance beats with monster hooks. Without this...no Destiny's Child.


    Well, the author is saying this album "changed music" but lists only Destiny's Child after 'without this....'? Surely there are many others who were influenced by them (not sure about Duran Duran).

    Swish
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  2. #2
    Suspended 3-LockBox's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Swish

    Well, the author is saying this album "changed music" but lists only Destiny's Child after 'without this....'? Surely there are many others who were influenced by them (not sure about Duran Duran).

    Swish
    Niles Rogers produced a couple of Duran Duran' s albums in the '80s (along with a host of others), and Duran Duran has said in the past that they were big fans of Chic, but no, stylistically I don't get the comparison. And their 'Without this' tag, just shows how limited the writer's music expeiences really are. I don't have an extensive knowledge of disco music, so to list Chic as being representative of the genre is as good a call any other band (in this piece). It wouldn't make sense for the writer of this article to list a lesser known band like Taveres or The Trammps (since they helped shape the sound of big-band disco) or Kool and the Gang, for that matter, would be appropriate too, but they don't have the mega hit that Chic did.

    Educating their readers has never been on the agenda. Name recognition and hip factor is the aim of the writer, so Chic was the obvious choice, since it had a huge hit with the well known, "Le Freak". The other disco bands I listed had minor hits that don't make many compilations of the era or genre.

    I could spend days thinking of bands and acts that were reminiscent of Chic's style, without ever arriving at Destiny's Child.

  3. #3
    Loving This kexodusc's Avatar
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    Having a hard time with this one simply because this is the first artist of all these selections that I have never, ever heard of. Maybe I'll recognize a few of their tunes?
    Interesting.
    Are they responsible for Disco?

    I always figured TLC, En Vogue, Whitney Houston, Mariah Carrey etc were likely candidates as influential to Destiny's Child...any of these ladies cite "Chic" as a big influence?

    Still, if it made it to print in a music magazine, it's gotta be true...

  4. #4
    _ Luvin Da Blues's Avatar
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    Just my opinion but..... disco didn't influence anybody noteworthy. It died because it was one one the lousiest forms of music ever to insult anyone's ears who actually like music (and not just the ladies on the dance floor). I endured it back then so I think I'm entitled to this opinion.

    Sorry if I'm insulting anyone but influential .....I think not
    Back in my day, we had nine planets.

  5. #5
    Color me gone... Resident Loser's Avatar
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    Well...

    Quote Originally Posted by Luvin Da Blues
    ...I endured it back then so I think I'm entitled to this opinion...
    ...so you would think...however that may not be the case...

    jimHJJ(...although I agree with you...FWIW...)
    Hello, I'm a misanthrope...don't ask me why, just take a good look around.

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  6. #6
    _ Luvin Da Blues's Avatar
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    Wink

    Quote Originally Posted by Resident Loser
    ...so you would think...however that may not be the case...

    jimHJJ(...although I agree with you...FWIW...)

    Oh Jeez...and here I thought anyone living in a free speech society was entitled to one..whether they exercise that right or not.. I guess I'll shut up now LOL


    Peace
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  7. #7
    Rocket Surgeon Swish's Avatar
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    You can condemn disco all you want...

    Quote Originally Posted by Luvin Da Blues
    Just my opinion but..... disco didn't influence anybody noteworthy. It died because it was one one the lousiest forms of music ever to insult anyone's ears who actually like music (and not just the ladies on the dance floor). I endured it back then so I think I'm entitled to this opinion.

    Sorry if I'm insulting anyone but influential .....I think not
    ...and I was certainly not a fan, having spent my best years in college listening to the "new wave" that was sweeping the campuses of the US. However, that doesn't mean that there wasn't some disco that was done well and showed some talent, and I'm talking primarily about the Bee Gees and Night Fever. I feel the same way about most of the Michael Jackson stuff; I'll admit it's well done and he has talent, but I don't care for the style.

    Swish
    I call my bathroom Jim instead of John so I can tell people that I go to the Jim first thing every morning.

    If you say the word 'gullible' very slowly it sounds just like oranges.

  8. #8
    Mutant from table 9
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    Wow... All I can say is "wow." Some of you guys need to tour some other genres and expand your horizons. Chic is not influential?!? Disco is not influential?!?

    The Guardian should have gone even futher: Whithout Chic, there would be no hip hop, no rap music on the radio. The Guardian just picked the wrong album. It was not Chic's first record that was so influential, but the third record Risque.

    The Sugar Hill Gang rapped over the breakdown of Good Times, a song of the Risque album. The result was Rapper's Delight, the first Top 40 rap record. That record, in turn, directly inspired Blondie's Rapture, which was the first #1 Hot 100 rap joint. Prior to those records rap was a three hour shout out that no one thought to record (although, admittedly, other artist had previously recorded rap records).

    Disco was black, latino, gay, and female friendly. Long haired rockers with hang ups need not apply. So it is no surprise that disco is maligned and Chic is forgotten by the ill informed.

    Nile Rodgers is the whip, Disco rulez and Chic is the Bomb.
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  9. #9
    Forum Regular nobody's Avatar
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    Best not to shut up...a variety of ideas always make for more interesting discussion.

    But, just as you are free to say whatever you want, others are free to disagree whenever they want. Free speech goes both ways.

    But, I'm not really gonna say much to argue this one 'cause I don't really give a crap about Chic or disco in general. But, disco did influence and continues to influence dance music all the way up to the present, so it was more than a flash in the pan, and the Chic records also made headway by being used by early hip hop groups like Sugarhill Gang.

    Just don't be surprised if someone who does like the music wants to take issue with your dismissal, just as I would hope that you would similarly stand up and say something if someone was questioning the merit or whatever of something you hold dear.

  10. #10
    Forum Regular MindGoneHaywire's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Luvin Da Blues
    Oh Jeez...and here I thought anyone living in a free speech society was entitled to one..whether they exercise that right or not.. I guess I'll shut up now LOL


    Peace
    For one thing, this board is not a free speech society, and while of course we are all entitled to our opinions, I suspect if we posted one that spoke in a derogatory fashion towards the site, a moderator, or even another poster, such a post would rightfully be pulled. It wouldn't be the government clamping down on anybody's free speech right, but a privately owned site exercising their own rights.

    I find it interesting that you don't believe that disco influenced anybody noteworthy, as you put it. Now, for one thing, the title of the piece is "50 Albums That Changed Music." So I would ask, is an album capable of 'changing music' even if it didn't necessarily influence anybody noteworthy? I would argue that it is, because most musical movements begin under the radar of the general public when it comes to pop culture.

    But I distinctly remember my 12" copy of the Rolling Stones' Miss You that was billed as a 'disco remix.' It was a promo a record store clerk gave me. I don't know, I consider the Rolling Stones to be 'noteworthy.' You disagree? I'm surprised, coming from someone whose moniker indicates that they love blues, but you are of course free to disagree.

    Rod Stewart, not noteworthy? Hey, you're not going to get me to say he's rolled out great records over the past 30 years, but that wasn't what you said.

    The Bee Gees, not noteworthy?

    Queen, not noteworthy? I mean, I well remember 'Another One Bites The Dust,' with its bass line oh so similar to one or two I heard two or three years previously from Chic.

    I could go on, but then someone might accuse me of putting up insignificant details designed merely to one-up somebody. I'll let what I've said stand on its own. And I'll ask you to consider laying out for us, in perhaps just a bit more detail, how it is that disco influenced nobody noteworthy, and I won't even ask that you think for even a second about the level of musicianship required for the precision accomplished by the rhythm sections on disco records--the ones made prior to the mass adoption of drum machines and, later, samplers.

    Like this here Chic record, for instance.

    I don't like others.

  11. #11
    _ Luvin Da Blues's Avatar
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    Wink

    Quote Originally Posted by nobody
    Best not to shut up...a variety of ideas always make for more interesting discussion.

    But, just as you are free to say whatever you want, others are free to disagree whenever they want. Free speech goes both ways.

    But, I'm not really gonna say much to argue this one 'cause I don't really give a crap about Chic or disco in general. But, disco did influence and continues to influence dance music all the way up to the present, so it was more than a flash in the pan, and the Chic records also made headway by being used by early hip hop groups like Sugarhill Gang.

    Just don't be surprised if someone who does like the music wants to take issue with your dismissal, just as I would hope that you would similarly stand up and say something if someone was questioning the merit or whatever of something you hold dear.

    I totally agree with you.....

    who said "I may not agree with what you say...but I will fight to the death for your right to say it"...or something like that...I guess I'll have to take my head outta my$ss ...oops can I say that?..I mean outta the sand.

    I was a head bangin rocker back then and we had great laughs poking fun at disco...OK Ok I feel better, I'll grow up now
    Back in my day, we had nine planets.

  12. #12
    _ Luvin Da Blues's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MindGoneHaywire
    But I distinctly remember my 12" copy of the Rolling Stones' Miss You that was billed as a 'disco remix.' It was a promo a record store clerk gave me. I don't know, I consider the Rolling Stones to be 'noteworthy.' You disagree? I'm surprised, coming from someone whose moniker indicates that they love blues, but you are of course free to disagree.

    Queen, not noteworthy? I mean, I well remember 'Another One Bites The Dust,' with its bass line oh so similar to one or two I heard two or three years previously from Chic.
    Why did I know some one was going to bring these up???

    I guess it influenced them enough to try one or two songs...but it didn't last long tho

    ...waving a white flag....

    PS: I did apologize if I insulted anyone in my first post
    Back in my day, we had nine planets.

  13. #13
    Suspended 3-LockBox's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MindGoneHaywire
    I consider the Rolling Stones to be 'noteworthy.'
    Rod Stewart, not noteworthy?
    The Bee Gees, not noteworthy?
    Queen, not noteworthy?
    Yes, yes, yes, and yes...hell, add ELO to the mix, and just for fun, go listen to Kansas:People Of The Southwind off the Monolith album (go on....).


    Sure, disco wasn't a very intellectually stimulating pursuit, but what pop music is?

    Lots of bands dipped their toes into the disco waters, if only to capitalize on it, but that doesn't make it less influential. Its a model that's still being followed today.

    It did get 'old' fast though.

    and since when did you become concerned with 'one-upping' someone anyway?


  14. #14
    Forum Regular MindGoneHaywire's Avatar
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    You didn't insult me...what I most wanted to point out was that we could argue opinions about what we like & what we dislike all day long, and it's just kind of pointless. What I think Swish has been getting at, not that I want to speak for him, but this has been going on since this piece was first printed in a UK newspaper last summer, was to generate discussion over whether the recs in question are valid choices according to the parameters laid out by the writers. We've all taken issue with various aspects of the piece over that span, but the point that some have been, at times, pretty stubborn about, is refusing to acknowledge that a record has been influential...usually for reasons given that don't amount to much more than 'I don't like it.'

    I don't like the Spice Girls, but I argued that their choice was valid since they kicked off a trend that resulted in themselves, and 2, 3, maybe 4 subsequent acts that exploited how they changed music, selling hundreds of millions of albums. I don't have to like HOW they changed music, but I'm not going to say they didn't just because I have no use for teen dance pop.

    No need to resurrect that week's discussion, at least not in this thread...it's in the archives if someone wants to look for it. I appreciate yr response to my post. And it's not about a white flag, I'm not looking to beat anyone into submission, but I think if a point is worth making, someone should try to make it. The Rolling Stones, whether or not anyone cares, continued to sprinkle their records with dance-oriented tracks for years, and since I've never listened to their post-Tattoo You recs as much as the ones they made prior to that one, I can't speak to most after Undercover. But even on that record was a 100%, cut-and-dried disco tune called Too Much Blood that remains one of my favorites of theirs in spite of weak lyrics.

    But while some rock jumped on an anti-disco bandwagon, some chose the opposite tack, especially those with leanings towards what was then called 'new wave.' And even if I chose to dismiss the influence of Chic on the dance music that followed, including urban R&B and hip-hop, etc., just having pushed rock gods like some of the ones already mentioned to make disco records, even if it was just a fad for them, is enough for me to agree with this choice on this list.

    I don't like others.

  15. #15
    _ Luvin Da Blues's Avatar
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    Since I'm fairly new to these parts I missed the origins of this thread. Can anyone post a link to this newspaper? I'm interested in learning more...Thanks
    Back in my day, we had nine planets.

  16. #16
    Forum Regular MindGoneHaywire's Avatar
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    A link to the paper? That'd be no fun. Do a search here for 'albums that changed music' as the thread title & I think it should let you go back long enough--say, a year, though it hasn't been that long--to get all of 'em. A much better read, some very stimulating discussion, some spice, some thorns. Every thread has that as the base of the title. Let me know if you have a problem, but it should be pretty easy. Oh, and the week 1 thread might just be the most interesting of the lot.

    I don't like others.

  17. #17
    _ Luvin Da Blues's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MindGoneHaywire
    A link to the paper? That'd be no fun. Do a search here for 'albums that changed music' as the thread title & I think it should let you go back long enough--say, a year, though it hasn't been that long--to get all of 'em. A much better read, some very stimulating discussion, some spice, some thorns. Every thread has that as the base of the title. Let me know if you have a problem, but it should be pretty easy. Oh, and the week 1 thread might just be the most interesting of the lot.

    Hey thanks for that MGH. Couldn't find week 1 oh well..got a kick out of the Robert Johnson thread tho.

    Don't have time for them all right now but will in the future.

    In my short read there seems two be two common opinions;

    1) Music that influenced the way music is written, performed and produced and,

    2) Music that influenced the music one listens to.

    Is my initial take on this correct?

    Cheers
    Back in my day, we had nine planets.

  18. #18
    Forum Regular MindGoneHaywire's Avatar
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    I'd say that's the long and short of it.

    Here's the link to the first week's thread.

    50 Records that changed music

    I don't like others.

  19. #19
    Suspended PeruvianSkies's Avatar
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    Boney M..

    Anyone see the guy in this band dance? Well, get ready to laugh your ...you know what off. Also, check out their RASPUTIN video.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WnB5gTOAt0o

  20. #20
    Color me gone... Resident Loser's Avatar
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    Disco...

    ...I have an LP sized version of M's Pop Muzik and my wife bought a similar extended version of Eurythmics Sweet Dreams (Are Made Of This)...

    The first because I liked the synth work, production and the second because of Annie Lennox's vocals...If you eliminated all the pop music that relied on the common time signature that "became" the disco beat, there would be a big hole in the catalog...however, that beat pre-existed way before the likes of Gloria Gaynor and the rest...It's dance music...

    IMO the 'Stones et al jumped on the bandwagon primarily to produce viable "product" as all good businessmen do...cater to market demands...

    If you take into account all of the musicians who no longer have work due to disco and it's descendents, I don't see it as a particularly good influence...

    jimHJJ(...I preferred the BeeGees take on it to that of the 'Stones...)
    Hello, I'm a misanthrope...don't ask me why, just take a good look around.

    "Men would rather believe than know" -Sociobiology: The New Synthesis by Edward O. Wilson

    "The great masses of the people...will more easily fall victims to a great lie than to a small one" -Adolph Hitler

    "We are never deceived, we deceive ourselves" -Goethe

    If you repeat a lie often enough, some will believe it to be the truth...

  21. #21
    Color me gone... Resident Loser's Avatar
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    If you...

    Quote Originally Posted by Luvin Da Blues
    Hey thanks for that MGH. Couldn't find week 1 oh well..got a kick out of the Robert Johnson thread tho. Cheers
    ...really want to, you can do a Google on "50 influential albums" and you will not only get the entire list, but the article and some info on the folks responsible for it...

    IMO, reading the article and seeing who is responsible for the compilation may provide more insight into the whole enchilada than reading these threads will ever provide...Seems like a bit of Monday-morning quarterbacking to me with some dubious choices and even more dubious links between those choices and who they are supposedly responsible for having influenced.

    jimHJJ(...FWIW...)
    Hello, I'm a misanthrope...don't ask me why, just take a good look around.

    "Men would rather believe than know" -Sociobiology: The New Synthesis by Edward O. Wilson

    "The great masses of the people...will more easily fall victims to a great lie than to a small one" -Adolph Hitler

    "We are never deceived, we deceive ourselves" -Goethe

    If you repeat a lie often enough, some will believe it to be the truth...

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