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  1. #1
    Rocket Surgeon Swish's Avatar
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    50 Records that changed music

    Ok, I don't want to list 50 albums all at one time as the thread would become bloated if I get even half the interest that I am hoping for, so I think what I'll try to do is post one each week for 50 weeks and see if I can stimulate some conversation around this place.

    The first would be The Velvet Underground and Nico from 1967. This could be the most influential rock album of all time, although it sold poorly upon its first release. Without them there would be no David Bowie, Roxy Music, Siouxsie and the Banshees, The Jesus and Mary Chain, and countless others.

    Your thoughts?

    Swish
    Last edited by Swish; 07-19-2006 at 09:12 AM.
    I call my bathroom Jim instead of John so I can tell people that I go to the Jim first thing every morning.

    If you say the word 'gullible' very slowly it sounds just like oranges.

  2. #2
    Color me gone... Resident Loser's Avatar
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    And this...

    Quote Originally Posted by Swish
    ...Without them there would be no David Bowie, Roxy Music, Siouxsie and the Banshees, The Jesus and Mary Chain, and countless others.

    Your thoughts?

    Swish
    ...would somehow be bad? Although I think Bowie has talent...

    I liked Reed's 'Walk On The Wild Side" more due to the backup singers and the sax and in spite of his recitative psuedo-vocals...

    jimHJJ(...one of fifty? Sorry, not on my list...)
    Hello, I'm a misanthrope...don't ask me why, just take a good look around.

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    "The great masses of the people...will more easily fall victims to a great lie than to a small one" -Adolph Hitler

    "We are never deceived, we deceive ourselves" -Goethe

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  3. #3
    Rocket Surgeon Swish's Avatar
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    You think Bowie "has talent"?

    Quote Originally Posted by Resident Loser
    ...would somehow be bad? Although I think Bowie has talent...

    I liked Reed's 'Walk On The Wild Side" more due to the backup singers and the sax and in spite of his recitative psuedo-vocals...

    jimHJJ(...one of fifty? Sorry, not on my list...)
    That's quite an understatement about one of the greating rock legends still walking the planet. Lou Reed is also an icon in my book, regardless of what you think about his vocals. He has more talent in his pinky than most of the posers recording today.

    Let the games begin,
    Swish
    I call my bathroom Jim instead of John so I can tell people that I go to the Jim first thing every morning.

    If you say the word 'gullible' very slowly it sounds just like oranges.

  4. #4
    Stone Stone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Resident Loser
    ...would somehow be bad? ...)
    No, the author is showing how certain albums shaped music, whether good or bad. The article was written to show how big of an impact 50 albums had on the future of music.

    I don't know if it was the most influential, but VU and Nico certainly has to be right up there and I have no problem with it being #1. Plus, it's a really great album.
    And the world will turn to flowing pink vapor stew.

  5. #5
    Rocket Surgeon Swish's Avatar
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    You are 100% correct Stone man. Oh yeah, congrats..

    Quote Originally Posted by Stone
    No, the author is showing how certain albums shaped music, whether good or bad. The article was written to show how big of an impact 50 albums had on the future of music.

    I don't know if it was the most influential, but VU and Nico certainly has to be right up there and I have no problem with it being #1. Plus, it's a really great album.
    ..on the new baby! You must be flying high at the moment, and not from the usual substances.

    Swish
    I call my bathroom Jim instead of John so I can tell people that I go to the Jim first thing every morning.

    If you say the word 'gullible' very slowly it sounds just like oranges.

  6. #6
    Crackhead Extraordinaire Dusty Chalk's Avatar
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    Never heard it (in its entirety, dedicatedly listening, in one sitting), sounds like I should.
    Eschew fascism.
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  7. #7
    Forum Regular N. Abstentia's Avatar
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    I would tend to agree with Loser. Bowie is okay but those others? What did they do? How did they change the face of music?

    I've never heard that Velvet Underground album, but as far as it changing the face of music I would assume that since it was released in 1967 it was probably overshadowed by a little thing called Sgt. Pepper. Not to mention The Doors debut. Now THAT's something that changed the face of music.

  8. #8
    Rocket Surgeon Swish's Avatar
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    Dude, you're missing the point. Did you read my actual...

    Quote Originally Posted by N. Abstentia
    I would tend to agree with Loser. Bowie is okay but those others? What did they do? How did they change the face of music?

    I've never heard that Velvet Underground album, but as far as it changing the face of music I would assume that since it was released in 1967 it was probably overshadowed by a little thing called Sgt. Pepper. Not to mention The Doors debut. Now THAT's something that changed the face of music.
    ...post, or did you gloss over it because you were so anxious to agree with Loser? I didn't say the others bands changed the face of music. The whole idea behind this is to point out 50 records that changed the face of music, and the first was the VU record. As far as it being "overshadowed by a little thing called Sgt. Pepper", I disagree completely, and you're in no position to argue since you never heard the VU record, which is a pity in itself. How can you base an argument against something you've never heard? In addition, that wasn't even the best Beatles record in my opinion. A great one, yes, but not as good as Revolver or the White Album, although it will appear later in this list. And Bowie is just ok? Give me a break. His body of work is probably among the top 10 in rock. Yeah, top 10 for sure, and most of it was seminal, trend-setting music, and I'm sure many others on this board will agree with that assessment. If you're one of those "classic rock" lovers, then I guess I'm wasting my breath.

    In addition, I never said the VU was "the most important", only that it was one of the 50 "most important", so you assumed that I was calling it the top of the list, which I did not. Also, I am not the creator of this list of 50 records, and never implied that I was. I am merely presenting them for discussion and paraphrasing the information for open discussion, one per week, which is exactly what is happening, although you misinterpreted the concept.


    Swish
    I call my bathroom Jim instead of John so I can tell people that I go to the Jim first thing every morning.

    If you say the word 'gullible' very slowly it sounds just like oranges.

  9. #9
    Can a crooner get a gig? dean_martin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Swish
    Ok, I don't want to list 50 albums all at one time as the thread would become bloated if I get even half the interest that I am hoping for, so I think what I'll try to do is post one each week for 50 weeks and see if I can stimulate some conversation around this place.

    The first would be The Velvet Underground and Nico from 1967. This could be the more influential rock album of all time, although it sold poorly upon its first release. Without them there would be no David Bowie, Roxy Music, Siouxsie and the Banshees, The Jesus and Mary Chain, and countless others.

    Your thoughts?

    Swish
    I'll agree w/ya. Femme Fatale and There She Goes Again has been covered by the likes of REM and others. Heroin was covered recently by some band my teens listen to. I think what came out of The Velvet Underground & Nico was a "happening". It was representative of the Andy Warhol scene at the time and although Warhol's scene overshadowed VU's music then, I think VU's music from that album has had stronger staying power. (This is from a guy who snagged 10 to 12 of the films from the Factory days before the Warhol estate sold the rights to The Warhol Museum in PA.)

  10. #10
    Forum Regular N. Abstentia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Swish
    ...post, or did you gloss over it because you were so anxious to agree with Loser?

    Swish
    I love it when people say 'please post your thoughts!' then get all huffy when others opinions don't agree with their own.

    If you don't want opinions, don't ask for them. When you do ask for them, be prepared for some that might not share your views.

    Thoughts?

  11. #11
    Suspended 3-LockBox's Avatar
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    Where is the list, BTW?

    I'd like to see it

    And no, I have never heard this album in its entierity either, so I can't really comment on it.

  12. #12
    Rocket Surgeon Swish's Avatar
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    Your "opinion" had nothing to do with Velvet Underground..

    Quote Originally Posted by N. Abstentia
    I love it when people say 'please post your thoughts!' then get all huffy when others opinions don't agree with their own.

    If you don't want opinions, don't ask for them. When you do ask for them, be prepared for some that might not share your views.

    Thoughts?
    ..only that you wanted to "agree" with Born Loser, quite evident by the fact that you admittedly never heard the VU record. I was merely pointing out that you deviated from the point of the thread, which was to comment about this being called one of the 50 records that changed the face of music. What you said was "I would tend to agree with Loser. Bowie is okay but those others? What did they do? How did they change the face of music?" The post wasn't about the "others" it was about how the VU record influenced those bands and many other.

    Then you go on to say "I've never heard that Velvet Underground album, but as far as it changing the face of music I would assume that since it was released in 1967 it was probably overshadowed by a little thing called Sgt. Pepper. Not to mention The Doors debut. Now THAT's something that changed the face of music". Again, you're making an assumption about a record that you never heard and seemingly know nothing about, so how can you make that statement?

    Look, I'm not trying to start some battle with you or anyone else on the board, just to create discussion on the record I posted about. If you want to take it personally there's not much I can do about it. Having not heard the record, it's pretty difficult to say much of anything in a negative sense, isn't it?

    Swish
    I call my bathroom Jim instead of John so I can tell people that I go to the Jim first thing every morning.

    If you say the word 'gullible' very slowly it sounds just like oranges.

  13. #13
    Rocket Surgeon Swish's Avatar
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    Stop being so nosy!

    Quote Originally Posted by 3-LockBox
    Where is the list, BTW?

    I'd like to see it

    And no, I have never heard this album in its entierity either, so I can't really comment on it.
    If I reveal the source of the list, then everyone will go looking at it and ruin the "thrill" of seeing my weekly post to discuss one more on the list, and what fun would that be? Don't be a buzz kill!

    Swish
    I call my bathroom Jim instead of John so I can tell people that I go to the Jim first thing every morning.

    If you say the word 'gullible' very slowly it sounds just like oranges.

  14. #14
    Suspended superpanavision70mm's Avatar
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    Swish,

    Unfortunately certain people have to ruin this forum....anytime you make statements and sometimes not even when they are not even your own...people get into debate mode. The same thing happened when I made a post about how I thought that Terminator 2 was one of the best sequels EVER and gave 10 reasons why. Instead of people making the thread a fun one and perhaps listing their reasons why OTHER films could be great sequels, they instead just try to prove me wrong or start heated arguments.

    I, on the other hand, look forward to seeing weekly posts and will try to comment to the best of my abilitites. For the record....BOWIE IS AWESOME!

  15. #15
    Stone Stone's Avatar
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    I want to add a bit more about this album. It has been said that when this record was released, not many heard it, but everyone who did started a band. That's the kind of influence this record has had and its sound is still heard in many bands today. Whether you like it or dislike it, I don't think there's any denying it has had a huge impact on rock and pop music over the years, especially with the indie set.

    And this album has some wonderful songs on it. Nico really added something to the mix that makes the album special and beautiful.

    And for those arguing about Bowie and the others, like Swish said, you completely missed the point of the post and of the list. It says without The Velvet Underground and Nico there would be no Bowie, JaMC, etc. I tend to agree with this, especially if you listen to Bowie's very early work which is basically just straight ahead Brit pop very similar to others of the day. I think this album changed the sound of a lot of artists.
    And the world will turn to flowing pink vapor stew.

  16. #16
    Musicaholic Forums Moderator ForeverAutumn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by superpanavision70mm
    Unfortunately certain people have to ruin this forum
    I don't think that anyone is trying to ruin anything. Maybe they misunderstood the point of Swish's post and the discussion that he was trying to generate.

    In my opinion, this forum has become such a ghost town that ANY form of discussion is a good one. So what if the thread ends up going on a bit of spin into conversation about Sgt Pepper (which could turn up as #2 on the list for all we know) or whether David Bowie has talent (he's a freakin' GOD for goodness sake!!!!!!!). When do threads around this place stay on topic anyway? (there's a thread on the general board which started about speakers and ended in a debate about gay people raising children). At least Swish has generated some discussion, debate, whatever....something that has been sorely missing around here for a long time.

    I haven't heard the VU album. And I'm willing to bet that there will be a lot more on the list that I haven't heard. I'm looking forward to these weekly threads as an education on the history of music. Who knows, maybe this will take me in a whole new direction...just like when I first discovered Ziggy Stardust and the Spiders from Mars.....

    Keep the peace boys.

    BTW, I've added this album to my "list".

  17. #17
    Color me gone... Resident Loser's Avatar
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    Hey swishy...

    ...did you say:

    Quote Originally Posted by Swish
    Your thoughts?
    Well, you got mine and N.Absentia's...you don't want thoughts, don't ask for them...it's that simple...

    Re: DB...I said he had talent...simply and succinctly...Understatement? No, sufficient for it's relevance to your post. Was I supposed to say he is AWESOME or that his music changed my life or the course of human history...Guess what? He ain't/it didn't. Saying he has talent goes well beyond your simplistic take on the word and, to remind you, this post is about the Chenille Subway and el drone-O...isn't it.

    P.S. comparing anyone, anytime to the current crop of cr@p isn't saying all that much...If he didn't surround himself with transvestites and make nice-nice with Warhol, his 15 minutes of fame would have been long gone...

    jimHJJ(...but that's just my further thoughts...)
    Hello, I'm a misanthrope...don't ask me why, just take a good look around.

    "Men would rather believe than know" -Sociobiology: The New Synthesis by Edward O. Wilson

    "The great masses of the people...will more easily fall victims to a great lie than to a small one" -Adolph Hitler

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  18. #18
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    what about ?

    This disagreement over the influence of VU -v- Sgt. Pepper's is interesting.

    Both releases were huge.

    But I would argue that 1967 was a HUGE year for many reasons.

    I have an album from that year that changed the face of music more than both of those reflected above..................

    What about ... ARE YOU EXPERIENCED ? from Hendrix ?

    I'd even argue that DISRAELI GEARS is a close alternative as well.

  19. #19
    Rocket Surgeon Swish's Avatar
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    I had no problem with your comments, even though I felt...

    Quote Originally Posted by Resident Loser
    ...did you say:



    Well, you got mine and N.Absentia's...you don't want thoughts, don't ask for them...it's that simple...

    Re: DB...I said he had talent...simply and succinctly...Understatement? No, sufficient for it's relevance to your post. Was I supposed to say he is AWESOME or that his music changed my life or the course of human history...Guess what? He ain't/it didn't. Saying he has talent goes well beyond your simplistic take on the word and, to remind you, this post is about the Chenille Subway and el drone-O...isn't it.

    P.S. comparing anyone, anytime to the current crop of cr@p isn't saying all that much...If he didn't surround himself with transvestites and make nice-nice with Warhol, his 15 minutes of fame would have been long gone...

    jimHJJ(...but that's just my further thoughts...)
    ...you missed the point of the thread and that you underserved Sir David by saying he has talent. To me, that's like saying Tiger Woods hits a nice ball when he's the #1 player in the world. If you're not a Bowie fan, that's fine, as I have plenty of disagreements with others about music on this board, and always will. That's what makes it fun. We all have different tastes, or this board would be totally pointless and boring, wouldn't it?

    What rubbed me wrong was that you and N. Abstentia's missed the point of the post. The opinion was supposed to be about the VU record, not the bands that it supposedly spawned. If you want to go off-topic, then whatever, I was only trying to start something a little different on a weekly basis. It proves the adage that no good deed goes unpunished.

    Swish
    I call my bathroom Jim instead of John so I can tell people that I go to the Jim first thing every morning.

    If you say the word 'gullible' very slowly it sounds just like oranges.

  20. #20
    Color me gone... Resident Loser's Avatar
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    Actually...

    Quote Originally Posted by Swish
    ...you missed the point of the thread and that you underserved Sir David by saying he has talent. To me, that's like saying Tiger Woods hits a nice ball when he's the #1 player in the world. If you're not a Bowie fan, that's fine, as I have plenty of disagreements with others about music on this board, and always will. That's what makes it fun. We all have different tastes, or this board would be totally pointless and boring, wouldn't it?

    What rubbed me wrong was that you and N. Abstentia's missed the point of the post. The opinion was supposed to be about the VU record, not the bands that it supposedly spawned. If you want to go off-topic, then whatever, I was only trying to start something a little different on a weekly basis. It proves the adage that no good deed goes unpunished.

    Swish
    ...I'm a fan of much of Bowie's work...I think he is good at what he does, can actually carry a tune, is responsible for innovative concepts and provides enjoyable entertainment...given the thread's main topic, my use of the word talent covered it in a nutshell...

    Re: VU...it doesn't pin my meter...I find it and Reed self-indulgent claptrap...the dressed in black, artsy-fartsy, psuedo-neo-avant-garde, East Village idiots so taken with themselves as to be unbearable...and Nico...geez, fits right in, with the "I'm so deep and dark and full of angst" Puh-leeeze...

    What was either revolutionary or even evolutionary about the album? Was it on a scale of Dylan's "Bringing It All Back Home" which gave folk a big wake-up call? Or Brian Wilson's "Pet Sounds" which gave us the foundation for concept albums? Or as suggested, Hendrix' "Are You Experienced" which resulted in a big whoa, man...where did that come from? Or "The Flying Buritto Brothers" which coalesced folk-rock into country-rock? Or the Dead's "Europe '72" which set the standard for live-performance recordings? Wa-a-ay out of it's league on so many counts.

    Some claim it has social relevance, like nothing before it did? Or spoke out loud about things previously whispered? IMO, it has nothing to offer but shock-value in the pee-pee/doo-doo/ca-ca sense of the term...I'd rather hear a censored version of Harry Nilsson's "You're Breakin' My Heart"...at least it's amusing.

    jimHJJ(...even more thoughts...)
    Hello, I'm a misanthrope...don't ask me why, just take a good look around.

    "Men would rather believe than know" -Sociobiology: The New Synthesis by Edward O. Wilson

    "The great masses of the people...will more easily fall victims to a great lie than to a small one" -Adolph Hitler

    "We are never deceived, we deceive ourselves" -Goethe

    If you repeat a lie often enough, some will believe it to be the truth...

  21. #21
    Rocket Surgeon Swish's Avatar
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    Now we're getting somewhere!

    Quote Originally Posted by Resident LoserRe: VU...it doesn't pin my meter...I find it and Reed self-indulgent claptrap...the dressed in black, artsy-fartsy, psuedo-neo-avant-garde, East Village idiots so taken with themselves as to be unbearable...and Nico...geez, fits right in, with the "I'm so deep and dark and full of angst" Puh-leeeze...

    What was either revolutionary or even evolutionary about the album? Was it on a scale of Dylan's "Bringing It All Back Home" which gave folk a big wake-up call? Or Brian Wilson's "Pet Sounds" which gave us the foundation for concept albums? Or as suggested, Hendrix' "Are You Experienced" which resulted in a big whoa, man...where did [B
    that[/B] come from? Or "The Flying Buritto Brothers" which coalesced folk-rock into country-rock? Or the Dead's "Europe '72" which set the standard for live-performance recordings? Wa-a-ay out of it's league on so many counts.

    Some claim it has social relevance, like nothing before it did? Or spoke out loud about things previously whispered? IMO, it has nothing to offer but shock-value in the pee-pee/doo-doo/ca-ca sense of the term...I'd rather hear a censored version of Harry Nilsson's "You're Breakin' My Heart"...at least it's amusing.

    jimHJJ(...even more thoughts...)
    I agree with your assessment about some of the other records, and they may be on the list of the 50. I disagree with you about VU, but your comment are still appreciated for what they are. However, keep in mind that VU was only listed first, but just because the list has to start somewhere, and not because it's supposedly the most influential record in the history of rock. I think it is certainly one of the top 10, but not necessarily # 1, which I could never pin down, much as I could not say what my favorite record or favorite song was. There are just too many great one to pick only one.

    Thanks,
    Swish
    I call my bathroom Jim instead of John so I can tell people that I go to the Jim first thing every morning.

    If you say the word 'gullible' very slowly it sounds just like oranges.

  22. #22
    BooBs are elitist jerks shokhead's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Swish
    Ok, I don't want to list 50 albums all at one time as the thread would become bloated if I get even half the interest that I am hoping for, so I think what I'll try to do is post one each week for 50 weeks and see if I can stimulate some conversation around this place.

    The first would be The Velvet Underground and Nico from 1967. This could be the more influential rock album of all time, although it sold poorly upon its first release. Without them there would be no David Bowie, Roxy Music, Siouxsie and the Banshees, The Jesus and Mary Chain, and countless others.

    Your thoughts?

    Swish
    Influential rock album of all time? Is this a joke?
    Look & Listen

  23. #23
    Musicaholic Forums Moderator ForeverAutumn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Swish
    keep in mind that VU was only listed first, but just because the list has to start somewhere, and not because it's supposedly the most influential record in the history of rock.
    Hey Swish, this begs the question...did the author of the list put the 50 in order of what he (or she) thought was THE most influencial? Or, is this just a list of 50, in no particular order?

    I realize that the purpose of the thread isn't even to rate the album but just to generate discussion on it's relevance and influence in music history...I'm just curious about this mystery list.

  24. #24
    Forum Regular nobody's Avatar
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    Interesting conversation. Personally, Iím a big fan of the VU album, but dissenting opinions are fine. I can see Swish wanting more than a thumbs up or down with no reason behind it since he was talking about influence, not merely opinion. But, anytime you toss out an album for discussion, youíre gonna get opinion, and Iím fine with that. Iím a big fan of disagreement, really. Keeps things lively. Never did like a ďyes man.Ē

    That said, I think the VU album was hugely influential. Lyrically, Reed went into areas where most had pretty much left alone, most obviously drug addiction and other depravities. Did dome others touch on it earlier? Sure, but not to the extent he did. He stretched the boundaries of what was considered appropriate lyrically in rock music, and that has continued to reverberate. Heís more friend than foe to Dylan in this regard.

    Also, the whole notion of underground rock was pretty much jump started by the band. Without the Velvet Underground making a series of records that appealed to a narrow section of the public, later to garner acclaim, the impetus for all of the small label, make music for the music, not for the audience thing that is till huge today needs a different group for their heroes.

    Sound wise, these guys were all over the map. They made one of the quietest albums of all time with their third, self-titled disc and made one of the grungiest, noisiest albums of all time with White Light/White Heat. They expanded what some came to expect from music. And, they brought the art world and the music world, along with street life, together like no one before, and probably since.

    Thatís all group level generalities though. So what about the particular album in question? Well, itís probably their most accessible in many ways, outside Loaded. It made it OK to be avant garde in rock music, its mood and sonic ringing signature have been copied time and again. The songs have been covered hundreds of times. Even the album cover, designed by Warhol, of course, has become a visual icon in American culture. So, yeah, itís had influence.

    More up for debate would be if you like the influence it had. I liked the Punk stuff that came out of its underground wake, fused with the anger of the Stooges and Dolls and more. I like the underground scene that made experimentation more prevalent. I like bands like REM, Jesus and Mary Chain, Bowie, Iggy, Talking Heads and many others who trace their roots directly to the Velvet Underground. And, I like when art and music collide. So yeah, Iím a fan.

    If you would have preferred music to stick to its traditions and prefer something more straightforward with common blues riffs and a wailing singer, and think rock music has done nothing but decline since the 70sÖwell, you probably should hate the influence of this album. But, itís certainly there.

  25. #25
    Stone Stone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shokhead
    Influential rock album of all time? Is this a joke?
    Uhhh, no joke. Are you familiar with the album, the story behind it, the way music has changed since then, and the artists since it was released who have cited it as an influence?
    And the world will turn to flowing pink vapor stew.

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