Week 11: 50 Albums That Changed Music

[BradH]

Read the thing again..."it's not so much that every act that followed dyed their hair orange in homage to the spidery spaceman; more that they learned the value of creating a "bubble" of image and presentation that fans could fall in love with.". To that end I think they are correct. Maybe he didn't influence Madonna so much as the others, but he was certainly a trailblazer during that period.

Every act that followed? I don't buy it. MTV is what created the demand for the "image bubble" of Prince, Madonna, Duran Duran, etc. - not Ziggy Stardust on the Midnight Special.

[ForeverAutumn]

I think your comment about Madonna is out of place.
Read the thing again..."it's not so much that every act that followed dyed their hair orange in homage to the spidery spaceman; more that they learned the value of creating a "bubble" of image and presentation that fans could fall in love with.". To that end I think they are correct. Maybe he didn't influence Madonna so much as the others, but he was certainly a trailblazer during that period.

Swish

Okay, I can see where they're going with this in regards to Madonna, but Bon Jovi? Not making the connection here.

I don't know about Ziggy specifically. But I hear Bowie influences all over the place. Take a listen to the Secret Machines that some of you are so fond of. If that singer isn't trying to sound like Bowie I'll...well, I don't know...I'll do something. In fact, that's kinda why I like The Secret Machines...because they do remind me so much of Bowie.

On a more personal note, Ziggy was my very first real rock album. It changed my life in the way that I listened to music from that point forward. So, influence? It not only influenced the music that followed it, but it influenced fans as well.

I have to agree with Troy that anything following Scary Monsters is mostly drivel IMO. Although, I did quite like his last disk, Reality. And the tour that promoted the album was the most real that I've ever seen David (and I've seen him quite a lot).

[3-LockBox]

I have to agree with Troy that anything following Scary Monsters is mostly drivel IMO. Although, I did quite like his last disk, Reality. And the tour that promoted the album was the most real that I've ever seen David (and I've seen him quite a lot).

I've hear'd good things about that one. I actually did own Scary Monsters (and super creeps) , Let's Dance , Tonight, and Never Let Me Down. I kinda liked Let's Dance and played the hell out of it. Tonight was kinda wince inducing, and Never Let Me Down was just boring. That was my last attempt at a Bowie album, besides his greatest hits CD.

The problem with Bowie is just as Troy said about him being ahead of the curve up until Let's Dance., which I think is a good period piece as far as new wave is concerned. But the other thing that changed about Bowie was that he was always somewhat a fringe artist like Gabriel, Roxy Music, Lou Reed. Meaning that they while they were certainly well known, they didn't get the radio play like the more mainstream acts of the '70s and therefor maintained a certain edge. As soon as they start charting in the Top 20 area or higher, they lose that edge, or at least they stop sounding as edgy to their fanbase. Happened with Gabriel anyway. Happened to Genesis too for that matter. And when the hunger for acceptance or success is satisfied, creativety hits a wall. How many of the groups I mentioned are considered to have declined in quality, right about the time they charted their best selling albums?

I guess that's why I'm not too broke-up about Porky Tree never hitting it 'big'. Not that I'm suggesting that Bowie's '70s output was any slouch sales-wise. He ranks up their with LedZep and The Stones for quality and quantity whereas '70s acts are concerned.

And I agree with your assessment of Ziggy Stardust. It truely is a rock album. I first heard it around 10 years ago in its entirety and I was surprised at how heavy it was, considering what I was used to hearing on the radio. The fact that Bowie seemed to hit it 'big' with Ziggy and still managed to maintain that edge for several more albums is pretty amazing.

And just for the record, when I say Bowie maintained an edge, I think he was able to carry off that sense of androgynouos mystery and stretch it out over several albums, while other artists flirted with same approach, and maybe maintained it for one album, maybe two. But mostly, everyone who was really, really influenced by Bowie enough to emulate him came across as gimmicky.

If I can agree that Bowie paved the way commercially for cross dressers like Boy George, I have to disagree that Bowie can heard at all in the George's music or Madonna's for that matter. While Bowie personas like Ziggy and Alladin Sane were sexually ambiguous, Boy George just came across like a flaming f@g. There was nothing ambiguous about Madonna's sexuallity. There was no sense of mystery, drama, or danger about George or Madonna either. And Bowie never was the cultural posterchild that those two were in their prime. His fame was rooted in music.

[MindGoneHaywire]

ChangesOneBowie was a BIG staple of AOR rock when I was listening to it in the late 70s through the mid 80s, so I have to disagree with you there. Charts? No, but there was such a thing as an 'FM rock hit' and from Space Oddity to Suffragette City, from Young Americans to Rebel Rebel, from Fame to Changes, he arguably got as much airplay as any other rock god, period.

Musically...for all he did with Iggy, Lou, Eno, whoever, he rocked most, and best, with Ronson. The authors of the article are taking a different tack, which is fine, and not something I'd tend to disagree with, but it's sure not the one way I'd choose to present it if I had the column space they were afforded for this laborious look at influential pop music.

The 'persona' thing more influential on Bowie's part than the aforementioned Cooper & also, say, T. Rex? I don't know, someone might even argue Pink Floyd....but if Bowie deserves the credit afforded, so be it. But Madonna probably owed as much to Cher & Barbara Streisand as to Bowie, for Pete's sake. Choosing to look at the records from an all-encompassing cultural view rather than one that's at least primarily (if not strictly) musical is weak. I guess I can understand it, but the list might just work a lot better without the spare words that accompany it.

[bobsticks]

The Guardian knows who Bon Jovi is but they may not know who Mick Ronson is.

They're the same clowns who said this: "Without this we'd be lost. No Sex."

Yet another example of the authors taking an appropriate choice and following it up with a swing and a miss. Great album?Sure. Influential? Absolutely. Influential on the cast of characters paraded about by The Guardian? Dubious at best. Methinks these writers have rolled up and smoked too many llama droppings...

[Resident Loser]

...from the outset, there's way too much re: the list and it's contents that is just so plain out-and-out porked-up as to render it all meaningless...It's just like Howard Stern and the like...get five or six people together around a mike and something funny or scathingly accurate might result from time to time...otherwise, and for the most part, it's just self-indulgent BS...

jimHJJ(...ooo...MD and KOB is next...)

[BradH]

The fact that Bowie seemed to hit it 'big' with Ziggy and still managed to maintain that edge for several more albums is pretty amazing.

It's totally amazing. One of the bravest careers in rock music on the strength of the '70's output alone. He kept the artistic edge by changing the persona. If you're talking about the androgyny edge he maintained then you've got to look at the drug use also. When he moved to America it wasn't just a change of location. He dropped the bisexual lifestyle and came out as the Young American that year. But his drug use hit an all time high in L.A. in '75 just like it did for Lennon, Ringo, Keith Moon, Nilsson - most of those guys were hanging out together. The Stones would see him at a party and a couple of days later see him at another party and realize he'd never stopped. He claims he doesn't remember 1975 at all. I saw him on an awards show at that time and he looked like walking death. I remember an interview he did in L.A. where he's talking about the occult, UFO's, astrology. He was totally wacked and paranoid. Then he chucked that lifestyle and dried out w/ Eno in Berlin. So, all these ch-ch-changes were reflected in his music and public persona. Like I say, he became his own art project. Now he's not so sure that was such a great idea because it almost killled him. I believe him when he says he can't remember lyrics because he took too many drugs. When you're outpacing Keef it's time to re-evaluate. And that's where the sellout aspect comes in you were talking about. They hit the big money (Let's Dance) and they get satiated somehow. It changes who you are. Sting described it as suddenly being responsible for a bunch of people in the industry whose job depends on your next hit record. It becomes a business. Yes used to live in the same house without leaving more than 24 hrs away in case an impromptu gig turned up. Now they have to have an international conference call to schedule an international conference call. You mentioned Porky Tree; I could also point to XTC. If they had hit it big after English Settlement there wouldn't be a Skylarking. They were forced by Virgin to make that record w/ Rundgren because their career was on the rocks. It was accidentally brilliant. But when you're a walking corporation you become a control freak and avoid accidents. You'd think it would be the other way around but I guess success doesn't inspire a sense of security so you can let go artistically. (See McCartney). Btw, I'm not advocating drug use or starving artists, I'm just pointing out that Bowie's edge involved more than just the androgyny thing. And then I rambled on because I'd get arrested doing it in public.

[MindGoneHaywire]

I think some of these Bowie situations & episodes you're describing were dealt with in that movie Velvet Goldmine. They sort of borrowed various events from the professional & private lives of Reed, Bowie, & Iggy to create a fictionalized rehash of the legacy of the VU playing into glam, and eventually punk. Good flick, although a bit weird in terms of seeing how they have scenes involving one of the characters that actually happened in the life or career of one of the other figures an alternate character is based on.

I read somewhere that XTC was in such hock to their record company due to not recouping over their first several records that some of the band had to go back to day jobs--after Oranges & Lemons. And this was after the hit they had in the U.S. with 'Dear God,' although since of course they had to pay for that & any other videos, who knows what sort of challenge recouping actually meant.

[nobody]

Btw, I'm not advocating drug use

I am...and all the kids out there should start worshipping Satan while they're at it.

[BradH]

Good flick, although a bit weird in terms of seeing how they have scenes involving one of the characters that actually happened in the life or career of one of the other figures an alternate character is based on.

I hate it when that happens. Sounds like that flick where the fictional Carole King fell in love with the fictional Brian Wilson then met the fictional Goffin....blech!

I read somewhere that XTC was in such hock to their record company due to not recouping over their first several records that some of the band had to go back to day jobs--after Oranges & Lemons. And this was after the hit they had in the U.S. with 'Dear God,' although since of course they had to pay for that & any other videos, who knows what sort of challenge recouping actually meant.

Virgin had no problem recouping from XTC's records - they just didn't bother telling XTC about it. It was a massive hosing. Dave Gregory took a job driving some kind of truck after Nonesuch plus he was in various local bands.

I am...and all the kids out there should start worshipping Satan while they're at it.

It wouldn't mattter.

All is lost.

[ForeverAutumn]

I don't know about Ziggy specifically. But I hear Bowie influences all over the place. Take a listen to the Secret Machines that some of you are so fond of. If that singer isn't trying to sound like Bowie I'll...well, I don't know...I'll do something. In fact, that's kinda why I like The Secret Machines...because they do remind me so much of Bowie.

Okay, I was typing Secret Machines, but I was thinking British Sea Power. So for those of you wondering WTF I was talking about...I just wanted to clear that up.

[3-LockBox]

ChangesOneBowie was a BIG staple of AOR rock when I was listening to it in the late 70s through the mid 80s, so I have to disagree with you there. Charts? No, but there was such a thing as an 'FM rock hit' and from Space Oddity to Suffragette City, from Young Americans to Rebel Rebel, from Fame to Changes, he arguably got as much airplay as any other rock god, period.

You'll have to forgive my skewed reference; being from the south, Bowie may have been percieved as a novelty and therefor only a few of his songs got airplay. He didn't get near the airplay of say Aerosmith, Led Zeppiln, or even Lynard Skynard. So he didn't have rock god status as far as southern radio was concerned. But then again, neither did Neil Young for obvious reasons (I never heard the song 'Southern Man' until we were on vacation in Michigan one year in my late teens-I never understood the NY reference in Skynard's Sweet Home Alabama until then).

Not saying that Bowie doesn't deserve rock god status, as I did investigate him later in life. My first album proper of his was Scary Monsters, given to me by my older brother, who was a big Bowie fan. Most of the Bowie I ever heard was from him, that is until Let's Dance came out, which did get lots of airplay.

[ForeverAutumn]

You'll have to forgive my skewed reference; being from the south, Bowie may have been percieved as a novelty and therefor only a few of his songs got airplay. He didn't get near the airplay of say Aerosmith, Led Zeppiln, or even Lynard Skynard. So he didn't have rock god status as far as southern radio was concerned. But then again, neither did Neil Young for obvious reasons (I never heard the song 'Southern Man' until we were on vacation in Michigan one year in my late teens-I never understood the NY reference in Skynard's Sweet Home Alabama until then).

Not saying that Bowie doesn't deserve rock god status, as I did investigate him later in life. My first album proper of his was Scary Monsters, given to me by my older brother, who was a big Bowie fan. Most of the Bowie I ever heard was from him, that is until Let's Dance came out, which did get lots of airplay.

Did I ever send you a copy of my Imaginary Bowie Collection comp? In fact, for some reason, I think that you were the one that inspired it. Lots of great pre-80s Bowie on two disks. Lemme know if you don't have it. I still have a copy that I listen to often.

[Audio Girl]

I was wondering how you were doing, and I hope your son is safe and sound "over there". It's good to see your post, but you may have misunderstood. The post is about 50 albums that changed music, meaning they influenced many who followed their lead. I never like Madonna, Kiss or Bon Jovi, whom the author states "Without this album, there would be no...".
I expressed my personal opinion regarding their comments.

Keep in touch!
Swish Baby

Hi Swishie,

Yes, I did misunderstand. Despite that, I'll have to admit that I have never been a big Bowie fan. I absolutely loved "Young Americans" when he released in the late 70s but that was my first and primarily last introduction to DB. What I love and admire about Madonna and Bon Jovi is that I have enjoyed their latest efforts, and we are talking 20 years plus since they entered the industry. I also admire Jon's philanthropic (sp?) efforts...Bon Jovi (Jon and the members of BJ) is a significant contributor to many charities (including Humanitat for Humanity). Yes, I like individuals or groups who have no fear in giving their money away. ;0

My son returned from his 2nd deployment to the Middle East on 08/14. He has decided to "reup" on Monday (10/02/06) for 4 more years. He has been told that he will be allowed to finish his Bachelor's degree from an assignment in Frankfurt, Germany and no supposed return to the Middle East, but we know everything is subject to change in the military. We are very proud of him, and support him all the way.

Miss ya, Swishie. Shoot me your mailing address and I'll send you a Bowie surprise.

Yer bud,
AG
and you are the only one who would provoke me from retirement :-)

[3-LockBox]

Did I ever send you a copy of my Imaginary Bowie Collection comp? In fact, for some reason, I think that you were the one that inspired it. Lots of great pre-80s Bowie on two disks. Lemme know if you don't have it. I still have a copy that I listen to often.

Yes you did, and when I saw this thread, I thought of your comp, and that made me want to whip it out (the comp) and listen to it.

[Swish]

Miss ya, Swishie. Shoot me your mailing address and I'll send you a Bowie surprise.

Yer bud,
AG
and you are the only one who would provoke me from retirement :-)

address, and I'll be sure to send you something in return.

Swish Baby