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  1. #1
    Rocket Surgeon Swish's Avatar
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    Week 11: 50 Albums That Changed Music

    Yes, I'm a little late with this today, but I was freaking swamped with work and just finished playing racquetball, so I figured I could post before watching some football and then the best show on TV, Weeds.

    Anyhoot, this week's selection is a personal favorite since I was a lad, by a performer who changed personas like no others before or after him. Yes, this one is David Bowie's - The Rise and Fall of Ziggy Stardust and the Spiders From Mars (1972)

    Bowie's revolutionary mix of hard rock and glam pop was given an otherworldly look and feel by his coquettish alter ego Ziggy. It's not so much that every act that followed dyed their hair orange in homage to the spidery spaceman; more that they learned the value of creating a "bubble" of image and presentation that fans could fall in love with. Without this we'd be lost. No Sex. No Pistols, no Prince, no Madonna, no Duran Duran, no Boy George, no Kiss, no BonJovi, no "Bohemian Rhapsody".

    Wow, can it really be 34 years old? I could really not care less if there had never been a Madonna, Duran Duran, Boy George, Kiss, or Bon Jovi, none of whom could hold a candle to Bowie IMHO, but he had gobs of influence on many of the bands I saw and heard in my formative years.

    Let the games begin,
    Swish
    Last edited by Swish; 09-26-2006 at 08:36 AM.
    I call my bathroom Jim instead of John so I can tell people that I go to the Jim first thing every morning.

    If you say the word 'gullible' very slowly it sounds just like oranges.

  2. #2
    Forum Regular Audio Girl's Avatar
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    Okay, you've brought me out of retirement for this sorry post...

    Bowie can replace Madonna, Kiss, Bon Jovi? Have you had one too many brewskis following your racquetball game tonight? ;-) Say something more reasonable and I'll be back with more reasonable feedback. Thanks for the "push" to respond, my friend. hehe.
    "And the three gifts of moving on are forgiveness, hope, and the great beyond, After that perhaps peace can come, Peace will come." -- Mary Chapin Carpenter (2007)

  3. #3
    Mutant from table 9
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    Never liked Bowie, but love this record. This record is also a great example of a well sequenced record, back when that used to mean something. Side 2 is one of the greatest sides of all time. I don't even know how to describe it. If Side 2 of Ziggy Stardust doesn't get you moving, then there's just no hope for you. I've never listened to Ziggy Stardust on CD or tape that I remember. Flipping that LP and strapping in for Side 2 is just too much fun.

  4. #4
    Forum Regular MindGoneHaywire's Avatar
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    I wouldn't argue with the choice, but it's interesting that they feel it's more important to mention the record's influence on that many names without thinking it worth it to mention Mick Ronson.

    I don't like others.

  5. #5
    Forum Regular BradH's Avatar
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    The Guardian: "It's not so much that every act that followed dyed their hair orange in homage to the spidery spaceman; more that they learned the value of creating a "bubble" of image and presentation that fans could fall in love with."

    That's a fairly shallow asessment. When it comes to creating an image he had nothing on Alice Cooper. But Bowie's trick was to become his own art project with a different character each time out. The Guardian is a joke talking about the significance of influencing Duran Duran. I well remember when this guy was someone everybody watched closely in the 70's. (And yeah, you'd better believe he influenced Peter Gabriel and Bryan Ferry among others). His style seemed to completely morph with the times. His move to the U.S. in '75 and release of Young Americans was seen by the U.K. fans as a betrayal equal to Dylan going electric to the folkies. I've still got old mags with letters to the editors wailing away. By the time The Ramones formed their own streamlined post-Ziggy world view he had already begun to move from soul/disco into the avant-garde w/ Eno, opening the door for every post-punk new-wave bizarro synthoid expression imaginable. And Let's Dance was a huge critical success despite what is said about it these days. But the follow up, Tonight, licked llama scrote. His teaming with Frampton didn't exactly inspire me to part with any more money, either. But that's well away from groundbreakers like Ziggy Stardust. In the 70's, Bowie and Roxy Music were the inspiration for many in the punk world who avoided the limitations of the Sex Pistols formula. And this ties back to the VU thread whether anybody likes it or not because punk was a direct musical descendant of the dark side of glam, which itself was undeniably inspired by Lou Reed & co.

    Btw, Ken Scott produced this album. He's brilliant, probably my all time favorite producer. Think Stanley Clarke's 1974 "brown album", Duty Now For The Future, Spring Session M, on and on. Killer drum sound.

    NP: Steppin' Out with the Grateful Dead: England '72

  6. #6
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    yes

    This is definitely a commendable piece of work -- good job.

    There are a few songs on this album that really got your attention during the day, however, me and my friends never really got the idea of mixing *****s and rock music.....a combination that just doesn't seem to work........or add anything.

    Mott the Hoople would have been no better or worse if they had not played the ***** card.....not sure about Prince and some others.

  7. #7
    Color me gone... Resident Loser's Avatar
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    Hey Swish...

    ...just a word of advice...You may want to somehow indicate (bold-face, quote block, etc.) that your posts contain comments re: the choices that aren't yours, lest you get more responses that take you to task by some who don't quite get the nub of the gist of it all...

    I'll limit my remarks by saying I think Bowie (in general) has been ahead of the curve and a trendsetter musically and persona-wise, even though personally I can take him or leave him...My total collection of his work consists of the compilation ChangesOneBowie...on vinyl.

    jimHJJ(...see y'all next time...)
    Hello, I'm a misanthrope...don't ask me why, just take a good look around.

    "Men would rather believe than know" -Sociobiology: The New Synthesis by Edward O. Wilson

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  8. #8
    BooBs are elitist jerks shokhead's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Swish
    Yes, I'm a little late with this today, but I was freaking swamped with work and just finished playing racquetball, so I figured I could post before watching some football and then the best show on TV, Weeds.

    Anyhoot, this week's selection is a personal favorite since I was a lad, by a performer who changed personas like no others before or after him. Yes, this one is David Bowie's - The Rise and Fall of Ziggy Stardust and the Spiders From Mars (1972)

    Bowie's revolutionary mix of hard rock and glam pop was given an otherworldly look and feel by his coquettish alter ego Ziggy. It's not so much that every act that followed dyed their hair orange in homage to the spidery spaceman; more that they learned the value of creating a "bubble" of image and presentation that fans could fall in love with. Without this we'd be lost. No Sex. No Pistols, no Prince, no Madonna, no Duran Duran, no Boy George, no Kiss, no BonJovi, no "Bohemian Rhapsody".

    Wow, can it really be 34 years old? I could really not care less if there had never been a Madonna, Duran Duran, Boy George, Kiss, or Bon Jovi, none of whom could hold a candle to Bowie IMHO, but he had gobs of influence on many of the bands I saw and heard in my formative years.

    Let the games begin,
    Swish

    Bon Jovi??
    Look & Listen

  9. #9
    Color me gone... Resident Loser's Avatar
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    Need...

    Quote Originally Posted by shokhead
    Bon Jovi??
    ...I say more?

    jimHJJ(...Swish, take thee to the edit option...)
    Hello, I'm a misanthrope...don't ask me why, just take a good look around.

    "Men would rather believe than know" -Sociobiology: The New Synthesis by Edward O. Wilson

    "The great masses of the people...will more easily fall victims to a great lie than to a small one" -Adolph Hitler

    "We are never deceived, we deceive ourselves" -Goethe

    If you repeat a lie often enough, some will believe it to be the truth...

  10. #10
    Color me gone... Resident Loser's Avatar
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    Is there...

    Quote Originally Posted by MasterCylinder
    This is definitely a commendable piece of work -- good job.

    There are a few songs on this album that really got your attention during the day, however, me and my friends never really got the idea of mixing *****s and rock music.....a combination that just doesn't seem to work........or add anything.

    Mott the Hoople would have been no better or worse if they had not played the ***** card.....not sure about Prince and some others.
    ...a less a, er...offensive or more PC way of putting things that won't earn it a five-star rating? What a pain in the asterisk!!!

    jimHJJ(...just curious...)
    Hello, I'm a misanthrope...don't ask me why, just take a good look around.

    "Men would rather believe than know" -Sociobiology: The New Synthesis by Edward O. Wilson

    "The great masses of the people...will more easily fall victims to a great lie than to a small one" -Adolph Hitler

    "We are never deceived, we deceive ourselves" -Goethe

    If you repeat a lie often enough, some will believe it to be the truth...

  11. #11
    Forum Regular nobody's Avatar
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    Not much to say, but fantastic album. Its one of those that I can listen to many, many times. Been listening to it for decades and still will toss it on the turntable with soem frequency. Not sure I don't like Hunky Dory more, but that's just me.

    Bowie also gets big props for getting Lou and Iggy back on track when they were both floundering.

  12. #12
    BooBs are elitist jerks shokhead's Avatar
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    Nice Album, a fav of mine.
    Look & Listen

  13. #13
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    Like AudioGirl, I'm out of retirement for this one.

    This is one of my top 10 all-time discs...and has been so for many years. Say what you will about the influence it had on whom and when, this album simply does the job right. Great songs, great arrangements, great concept, all well executed. It makes a statement and kicks yer arse for good measure.

    There may be times when I like Aladdin Sane better, but Ziggy is the one to choose if you're choosing only one.

    NP: Spoon, "Sister Jack"
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  14. #14
    Forum Regular BradH's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MindGoneHaywire
    I wouldn't argue with the choice, but it's interesting that they feel it's more important to mention the record's influence on that many names without thinking it worth it to mention Mick Ronson.
    The Guardian knows who Bon Jovi is but they may not know who Mick Ronson is.

    They're the same clowns who said this: "Without this we'd be lost. No Sex."

  15. #15
    Rocket Surgeon Swish's Avatar
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    Wow! Look what the cat dragged in!

    Quote Originally Posted by Audio Girl
    Bowie can replace Madonna, Kiss, Bon Jovi? Have you had one too many brewskis following your racquetball game tonight? ;-) Say something more reasonable and I'll be back with more reasonable feedback. Thanks for the "push" to respond, my friend. hehe.
    I was wondering how you were doing, and I hope your son is safe and sound "over there". It's good to see your post, but you may have misunderstood. The post is about 50 albums that changed music, meaning they influenced many who followed their lead. I never like Madonna, Kiss or Bon Jovi, whom the author states "Without this album, there would be no...".
    I expressed my personal opinion regarding their comments.

    Keep in touch!
    Swish Baby
    I call my bathroom Jim instead of John so I can tell people that I go to the Jim first thing every morning.

    If you say the word 'gullible' very slowly it sounds just like oranges.

  16. #16
    Rocket Surgeon Swish's Avatar
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    Good point. I just edited the original and put their...

    Quote Originally Posted by Resident Loser
    ...just a word of advice...You may want to somehow indicate (bold-face, quote block, etc.) that your posts contain comments re: the choices that aren't yours, lest you get more responses that take you to task by some who don't quite get the nub of the gist of it all...

    I'll limit my remarks by saying I think Bowie (in general) has been ahead of the curve and a trendsetter musically and persona-wise, even though personally I can take him or leave him...My total collection of his work consists of the compilation ChangesOneBowie...on vinyl.

    jimHJJ(...see y'all next time...)
    ...article in bold italics, so it should be easy for anyone to realize that my personal comments precede and follow the article.

    Thanks,
    Swish
    I call my bathroom Jim instead of John so I can tell people that I go to the Jim first thing every morning.

    If you say the word 'gullible' very slowly it sounds just like oranges.

  17. #17
    Rocket Surgeon Swish's Avatar
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    Bwahahahahahaha!

    Quote Originally Posted by BradH
    licked llama scrote
    We can't seem to stay away from the llama references! Nice reply.

    Swish
    I call my bathroom Jim instead of John so I can tell people that I go to the Jim first thing every morning.

    If you say the word 'gullible' very slowly it sounds just like oranges.

  18. #18
    Rocket Surgeon Swish's Avatar
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    Yep. Hard to believe, isn't it. I don't agree one iota.

    Quote Originally Posted by shokhead
    Bon Jovi??
    Like Res. Loser pointed out, you may have assumed those were my comments, so I edited my original post and put the article in bold.

    Swish
    I call my bathroom Jim instead of John so I can tell people that I go to the Jim first thing every morning.

    If you say the word 'gullible' very slowly it sounds just like oranges.

  19. #19
    Forum Regular BradH's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Swish
    We can't seem to stay away from the llama references! Nice reply.
    To paraphrase Zappa:

    The llama is soon to replace the hippo in your local mythology.

  20. #20
    Close 'n PlayŽ user Troy's Avatar
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    Madonna? Bon Jovi? Boy George? No way Jose. Ziggy did not influence these artists in any direct way. It's ridiculous. I can see some Ziggy in Kiss, but there's way more Alice Cooper there. Great album that DID influence a ton of music and style, but saying the Pistols wouldn't happened without it is just stupid.

    Bowie was way ahead of the curve until Scary Monsters, then he just began following it. There's a TON of great 70s albums, my favorite being Station to Station. Today, he's an interesting interview, but he should have probably stopped making music 15 years ago.

  21. #21
    Rocket Surgeon Swish's Avatar
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    There was something about "giant hippo balls " that...

    Quote Originally Posted by BradH
    To paraphrase Zappa:

    The llama is soon to replace the hippo in your local mythology.
    ...seemed to keep that phrase hanging on for so long. Then came Slosh with his "Hey, hey llama..." quip that made it the new animal of choice. I say it was time for change.

    Swish
    I call my bathroom Jim instead of John so I can tell people that I go to the Jim first thing every morning.

    If you say the word 'gullible' very slowly it sounds just like oranges.

  22. #22
    Suspended 3-LockBox's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Troy
    Madonna? Bon Jovi? Boy George? No way Jose. Ziggy did not influence these artists in any direct way. It's ridiculous. I can see some Ziggy in Kiss, but there's way more Alice Cooper there. Great album that DID influence a ton of music and style, but saying the Pistols wouldn't happened without it is just stupid.

    I'm starting to get the impression that the writer/s of this article won these 50 CDs in a poker game... or he joined one of those music clubs and he got 50 CDs for talking a few of his friends into joining too.

    Yeah, its prolly a good assumption that this album was influencial just on account of its proliferation in peoples music collections, but the writer/s of this article have such a slim grasp of what they're talking about. Why is Madonna mentioned so many times in this frikken article. OK, I get the reference whereas Bowie is concerned, as in re-creating an image with every new album, but that's it. It does seem that this article wants to make cultural connections seems as important as the musical ones, but even at that, the writer/s are still half-a$$ed about it.

    Yes BradH, this article is full of shallow asessments. And yes, Bowie is a student of VU, but I prefer the student to the teacher in this case, though I gave up on Bowie long ago.

  23. #23
    Close 'n PlayŽ user Troy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 3-BockLox
    It does seem that this article wants to make cultural connections seems as important as the musical ones, but even at that, the writer/s are still half-a$$ed about it.
    Yes, you're on to something here for sure.

    It's like these choices are influential fashion and culture albums rather than musically influential. As if the music was secondary.

    Face it, Madonna never EVER sounded like Ziggy. I see the feminist cultural slant from the Patty Smith a few weeks back too.

    It's like this list was compiled by a pop culture writer rather than a music freak.

  24. #24
    Rocket Surgeon Swish's Avatar
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    I think your comment about Madonna is out of place.

    Quote Originally Posted by Troy
    Yes, you're on to something here for sure.

    It's like these choices are influential fashion and culture albums rather than musically influential. As if the music was secondary.

    Face it, Madonna never EVER sounded like Ziggy. I see the feminist cultural slant from the Patty Smith a few weeks back too.

    It's like this list was compiled by a pop culture writer rather than a music freak.
    Read the thing again..."it's not so much that every act that followed dyed their hair orange in homage to the spidery spaceman; more that they learned the value of creating a "bubble" of image and presentation that fans could fall in love with.". To that end I think they are correct. Maybe he didn't influence Madonna so much as the others, but he was certainly a trailblazer during that period.

    Swish
    I call my bathroom Jim instead of John so I can tell people that I go to the Jim first thing every morning.

    If you say the word 'gullible' very slowly it sounds just like oranges.

  25. #25
    Forum Regular BradH's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Troy
    It's like these choices are influential fashion and culture albums rather than musically influential. As if the music was secondary.
    Well, it's a newspaper from the U.K. where sometimes fashion, culture and music are hard to separate. But I think with this list it seems like the music is secondary because they keep picking artists who were more influential than any one album they did.

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