Michael Jackson...respect?

[MindGoneHaywire]

I agree with Dusty; when I saw JB in 1993 he did some moves & then asked "I wonder where Michael got THAT from..."

I'm not big on much that MJ has done since Thriller either, but Quincy doesn't get all the credit in my book. A big part of that album's crossover success was Eddie Van Halen playing his solo on 'Beat It' live on, what was it, the Grammys? Maybe it was Quincy's idea to bring EVH on that rec, I don't know. If so, then credit is certainly deserved. But the performers did the performing. And another big reason was the success of the videos, which is another area that you have to question Quincy's level of involvement. But the wax itself is another story, and for that, by all means, he deserves plenty. But I almost find it hard to listen to the record without thinking of how popular it was, and that being something that almost overshadows the music itself.

Of course, looking at Off The Wall, it'd be a silly case to dismiss him...just trying to keep things in perspective. Also, as I'm not a big fan of post-Thriller MJ, I listen to the Jackson Five stuff, and the two Quincy Jones-produced albums. I prefer the J5, who I remember watching on Saturday mornings when I was a kid (but not for that reason); those are some remarkable performances on those 45s, and the live performances were pretty amazing too, especially considering the brothers didn't play on those records. But those aren't Berry Gordy's records, or Funk Brothers records, any more than Thriller is 'a Quincy Jones album.' Paul McCartney, who of course did a duet on Thriller, was miffed when Sgt. Pepper was described as being 'George Martin's best album.' Credit is good, but let's not go overboard, or next someone else might say that Quincy Jones is due all the respect for, say, 'It Might As Well Be Swing.' I have a feeling that wouldn't have gone down so well with Frank Sinatra, who also only sang, and didn't even dance (or make videos).

Also, he didn't write, and though MJ seems to have lifted an idea or two from obscure sources (a certain banned member of this board introduced me to a French 70s rock band that had written something MJ apparently lifted for one of the Thriller toons), he has writing credits on four of the biggest hits on the record. So, taking everything into consideration, to answer the original question in this thread, I have to hold MJ's music up to Thriller in very high regard. Since then, a toon here or there, but nothing I'd go back to unless I want to throw on the later material on History. As for his personal life? I try not to think about it, but knowing that something's likely very wrong there doesn't inspire me to listen more...but if I feel like listening to it, it doesn't stop me, either. Unfortunate, but it doesn't rise to the level of ruining the music I do like by the guy.

[nobody]

Never did like Thriller myself, although I did like Off the Wall...especially at the roller skating rink. And, of course, the Jackson 5 was great.

Thriller's always been one of those head scratchers for me...never quite got it.

And Prince was way better than Michael anyway for me...don't know about for dancing...'cause I don't realy care about that aspect...but I can't really ever remember a time wanting to hear Michael Jackson over Prince.

[BradH]

Thriller's always been one of those head scratchers for me...never quite got it.

Same here. I didn't think it was funky or soulful or anything other than bland. Never was much of an MJ fan outside of the J5. And Thriller was definitely in the middle of that competitive video era. Jay, forget about Eddie's crossover appeal. When the "Thriller" video was released, the lp shot back up to #1 where it had been before. That had never happened before and it knocked off Synchronicity too. Amazing. And Synchronicity itself was no doubt propelled to #1 by those Godley & Creme videos.

I don't think of MJ as an artist but as a performer/dancer/singer. I think of the working relationships between producers and performers in these cases are much like directors and actors in the film world. So, it's a bit much to say MJ was simply a tool for Quincy. But when it comes to comparisons with Prince, forget about it. That's so lopsided it's not even fair.

Btw, I remember, at the time, Thriller was seen by some as the culmination of the long, gradual shift from the Gordy/Detroit sound to the L.A. style of production. I think it was as much an achievement for Quincy as Michael. The George Martin/Sgt. Pepper case is often overstated but it was a co-equal artistic achievement between him and the Beatles.

Damn, Jay, now you've got me comparing Thriller to Sgt. Pepper's. I hope your happy.

[PeruvianSkies]

This has been a hugely interesting read as it would seem that there are essentially two camps on the matter, but almost everyone will agree to some extent that professionally the man is a genius or had some ingenius ideas and that personally he just can't seem to get his act together. However, my question is still this....

Is there an ounce of respect for someone like this??? Can we appreciate the music, but not the musician? I think so, but it's hard. It's easier to not like a persons music, but accept the person, rather than the opposite in this case.

So, what would we classify as MJ's greatest accomplishments as an artist???

[RGA]

By "clubs", you mean "strip clubs", right?

And by "respect", you mean "mock derision", right?

Never really much cared for him (don't own any of his albums), stopped caring about him completely after "Black or White". "Thriller" was a good video, though.

It was a good video because John Landis directed it ( He also directed An American Werewolf in London)

Jackson is and IMO always was a joke. I simply never could understand what anyone saw in this guy. His voice was grating - and his dancing while good is not exactly the Fred Astaire and Fred at least could sing.

Jackson's overproduced rubbish is mostly completely forgettable. Though he like Madonna keeps reinventing himself I guess -- into a child molester and just a general luney tunes. Madonna just stuck to selling sex. Michael has made Madonna look like a saint in comparison.

Jackson to me is maybe the most overrated hack in music history...and that was before the child stuff - he can buy his way out of jail --- but it;s not all him -- any parent that would send their kid within a mile of this putz has issues. Even if he were innocent (har har) a parent should STILL play it safe. Shame on them.

[BradH]

However, my question is still this....

Is there an ounce of respect for someone like this??? Can we appreciate the music, but not the musician?

I can appreciate someone's music and still have no respect for the musician as a person. I can think of several people that I might even pay to see but I still wouldn't walk across the street to talk to them for free. Conversely, just because someone is a nice or respectable person doesn't necessarily mean they're worth two flips as a musician or artist.

But an ounce of respect for someone like Michael Jackson? Not in this lifetime. Mikey and Bill Gates are still alive because Hell isn't warm enough yet.

[Dusty Chalk]

I simply never could understand what anyone saw in this guy.

Pretty much where I'm coming from. Just not my cuppa. Does it matter whether or not he is a pedophile in real life? No, not to me. I could hardly care less before, I could hardly care less now.

[3-LockBox]

but it;s not all him -- any parent that would send their kid within a mile of this putz has issues. Even if he were innocent (har har) a parent should STILL play it safe. Shame on them.

Yeah...when they finally put MJ away for child molestation, by all means bring charges against the parents who have been pimping out their own kids to this guy.

[Dusty Chalk]

Well, until the story broke, it's not like they knew. But yeah, after the story broke, the parents lose their excuse.