Lipsincing. Yay or Nay.

[ForeverAutumn]

Hubby and I were watching a John Fogerty concert on TV last night and after a few minutes, it became painfully obvious that he was lipsincing.

Because the cameras were so close, we were able to see that he was not singing. However, it is doubtful that the audience would have noticed.

How do you feel about singers lipsincing at live shows? Do you think that if it enhances the whole performance experience it’s okay to do? Or, do you think that singers should sing even if they may not sound perfect?

If you went to a concert that you really enjoyed and then found out afterwards that the singer was lipsincing, would you be okay with it or would you feel ripped off?

[Hyfi]

Hubby and I were watching a John Fogerty concert on TV last night and after a few minutes, it became painfully obvious that he was lipsincing.

Because the cameras were so close, we were able to see that he was not singing. However, it is doubtful that the audience would have noticed.

How do you feel about singers lipsincing at live shows? Do you think that if it enhances the whole performance experience it’s okay to do? Or, do you think that singers should sing even if they may not sound perfect?

If you went to a concert that you really enjoyed and then found out afterwards that the singer was lipsincing, would you be okay with it or would you feel ripped off?

Sing or get off the stage. I just heard Paula Abdul canceled her shows because she can't sing anymore. They should find another way to make a killing than ripping people off paying big ticket prices to see people perform.

Are you sure he was not singing or was the audio and video out of sync?

[ForeverAutumn]

Sing or get off the stage. I just heard Paula Abdul canceled her shows because she can't sing anymore. They should find another way to make a killing than ripping people off paying big ticket prices to see people perform.

Are you sure he was not singing or was the audio and video out of sync?

At first I thought that the audio and video was out of sync. But then I realized that it would look out for half a verse and then suddenly be fine for the second half. Then it would be out again. Then it would be fine again. Then it looked like he was just moving his jaw and not even mouthing real words at times.

But I did have to ask myself, why he would lip sync a show that was being filmed? Wouldn't he be worried that people would notice?

[GMichael]

The reason I go to a live show is to see/hear a LIVE show. If I wanted a recording I'd just play the CD. Give me the occasional mistake. That's what makes it exciting. It's the only drawback to seeing a Rush concert for me. In all the times I've seen them, I've never heard them make a mistake. Even when a beach ball ended up on stage and Alex kicked it straight into Getty's face and then Getty chased him around the back of the stage. Neither of them missed a note.

[kexodusc]

I dunno - guess it depends on what I'm seeing live.

I don't consider a lot of modern pop-acts to be terribly great musicians, but some of them are great performers. There's a difference. If Prince lypsynched I wouldn't care so much, to me he's much more spectacle and atmosphere than mastery of a technical art. If Placido Domingo got busted lypsynching, or Miles Davis was caught bopping to a recording, I'd probably be disappointed, I think the authenticity of their performances was the appeal.

So, I guess it depends. For the record, I'm more inclined to enjoy artists who do play and sing and write their own music than those who don't. But I've seen N Synch, Garth Brooks, and Madonna put on live shows far superior to anything I've seen from the White Stripes, U2, or Radiohead, even though I'm not a fan of their music.

[Rich-n-Texas]

Let's see...

Nillie Vanillie

Ashlee Simpson

...'Nuf said.

[Auricauricle]

I always wunnered how they do it at the opera....There's jus' no way that these guys know all dat! I mean, you're tellin' me that Luciano and Jesse and dem all sing French an' German an' It-a-lien an' such an' ain' lip-synchin'?? No way, no how! Nuh-uh...No suh!

[noddin0ff]

If you're being paid to perform, perform. People aren't paying to see dance and shimmy (not Fogarty anyway).

[Auricauricle]

'Greed!

[Troy]

In a live context where people paid to see you perform?

Inexcusable.

On a TV show, it's a bit more understandable, but still not right.

and I'll take it even further: bands that use pre-recorded material in a live context suck. ELO got busted for their string sections playing "air-violins" in the late 70s when they had the big flying saucer-stage tour. Bogus.

[Auricauricle]

Yeah well you gotta admit, an air Strad is way classier than an air Fender....

[Slosh]

If Prince lipsynched I wouldn't care so much, to me he's much more spectacle and atmosphere than mastery of a technical art.

You're joking, right? Prince is an incredible vocalist (and not too shabby on guitars, drums, piano, etc. either).

NP:

[bobsticks]

I dunno - guess it depends on what I'm seeing live.

I don't consider a lot of modern pop-acts to be terribly great musicians, but some of them are great performers. There's a difference. If Prince lypsynched I wouldn't care so much, to me he's much more spectacle and atmosphere than mastery of a technical art. If Placido Domingo got busted lypsynching, or Miles Davis was caught bopping to a recording, I'd probably be disappointed, I think the authenticity of their performances was the appeal.

So, I guess it depends. For the record, I'm more inclined to enjoy artists who do play and sing and write their own music than those who don't. But I've seen N Synch, Garth Brooks, and Madonna put on live shows far superior to anything I've seen from the White Stripes, U2, or Radiohead, even though I'm not a fan of their music.

I can agree with Kex while realizing that this is a neo-audiophilic form of musical snobbery. I can assure you I expected much less of Duran Duran than I did of Wynton Marsalis...cuz some people are "real musicians", right?

I'm not doggin' him either. Seriously, I approached it with the same mindset.

And, yes, sometimes yer pleasantly surprised...but, um, you saw N'Synch?

[emesbee]

John Fogerty lipsynching? No, surely not! Not John Fogerty, of all people. I thought he was the real deal. (I will have to take a closer look at the DVD I have of him live.)

[ForeverAutumn]

John Fogerty lipsynching? No, surely not! Not John Fogerty, of all people. I thought he was the real deal. (I will have to take a closer look at the DVD I have of him live.)

I'm pretty sure. I wouldn't bet my life on it...but I might bet Bobstick's.

[kexodusc]

I can agree with Kex while realizing that this is a neo-audiophilic form of musical snobbery. I can assure you I expected much less of Duran Duran than I did of Wynton Marsalis...cuz some people are "real musicians", right?

I'm not doggin' him either. Seriously, I approached it with the same mindset.

And, yes, sometimes yer pleasantly surprised...but, um, you saw N'Synch?

Bro, I've seen the holy trinity of boy bands with 3 different women...NKOTB, Backstreet Boys, and N'Synch. They write songs about the depths to which I'll sink for love...

[Mr MidFi]

Lip-synching the lead vocal live is something that virtually no one here will defend.

But I think that some folks here would be shocked to learn how much pre-recorded instrumentation and backing vox are used at live shows these days. And not just by pre-fab pop bands, either.

That, IMO, is a somewhat grayer area of debate.

[Swish]

I'm pretty sure. I wouldn't bet my life on it...but I might bet Bobstick's.

More like penny ante.

Swish

[Swish]

The reason I go to a live show is to see/hear a LIVE show. If I wanted a recording I'd just play the CD. Give me the occasional mistake. That's what makes it exciting. It's the only drawback to seeing a Rush concert for me. In all the times I've seen them, I've never heard them make a mistake. Even when a beach ball ended up on stage and Alex kicked it straight into Getty's face and then Getty chased him around the back of the stage. Neither of them missed a note.

I posted about this last year I believe. A local musician who is quite talented (very good acoustic player, singer, harmonica, sax, trumpet) was chatting with a guy from Clair Brothers Sound, a company in nearby Lancaster PA that does the live sound for many major acts. He told my friend how they have these click tracks that basically take over if any of the musicians forget a note or whatever. So they could basically screw up all they want and you get a mistake-free show. My friend was crushed by that revelation, especially since does a ton of live performances and doesn't have that luxury (he makes few mistakes though), and was basically ticked off that they use them. We're talking the Who, Led Zep...the big boys.

I think that's nearly as bad as a lip syncing.

Swish

[Auricauricle]

Never heard of such an animal as "click tracks", but it seems to take all the wonderment of live performance. I think all the misses and blips make the human element live and give the musicians the incentive to work harder to produce their art. "Playing it safe", whether by lip-synch, click tracks or simply not producing stuff because it's "too experimental", "too controversial" or "too hard" lowers the creative threshold and doesn't appeal to anyone.

It's a lose-lose situation.

Unless you like "America's Top Forty"....(Oh, did I really go there?)

[Swish]

Never heard of such an animal as "click tracks", but it seems to take all the wonderment of live performance. I think all the misses and blips make the human element live and give the musicians the incentive to work harder to produce their art. "Playing it safe", whether by lip-synch, click tracks or simply not producing stuff because it's "too experimental", "too controversial" or "too hard" lowers the creative threshold and doesn't appeal to anyone.

It's a lose-lose situation.

Unless you like "America's Top Forty"....(Oh, did I really go there?)

That idiot Eddie brought his son on tour in place of the original bassist, but used his pre-recorded backing vocals during their tour. What a prick!

Swish

[Auricauricle]

There ya go....!

[bobsticks]

I'm pretty sure. I wouldn't bet my life on it...but I might bet Bobstick's.

It's good to see that holding resentments is not part of your lifestyle.

[bobsticks]

I posted about this last year I believe. A local musician who is quite talented (very good acoustic player, singer, harmonica, sax, trumpet) was chatting with a guy from Clair Brothers Sound, a company in nearby Lancaster PA that does the live sound for many major acts. He told my friend how they have these click tracks that basically take over if any of the musicians forget a note or whatever. So they could basically screw up all they want and you get a mistake-free show. My friend was crushed by that revelation, especially since does a ton of live performances and doesn't have that luxury (he makes few mistakes though), and was basically ticked off that they use them. We're talking the Who, Led Zep...the big boys.

I think that's nearly as bad as a lip syncing.

Swish

Yup, Yup. My buddy Sahar did some time on the last Shania Twain tour, specifically syncing the click tracks with some of the other MIDI stuff...makes it easier on the drummers, eh. From my understanding it's not "Mistake free" per se, but pretty damn close. The guitars and bass can still wander from the pack but to get the gig at that level you have to be pretty damn good to begin with.

If you want a basic example, think Aerosmith and horn sections...ooops, sorry for the over-simplified, penny ante version....ye ol' curmudgeony jackass.

[Swish]

Yup, Yup. My buddy Sahar did some time on the last Shania Twain tour, specifically syncing the click tracks with some of the other MIDI stuff...makes it easier on the drummers, eh. From my understanding it's not "Mistake free" per se, but pretty damn close. The guitars and bass can still wander from the pack but to get the gig at that level you have to be pretty damn good to begin with.

If you want a basic example, think Aerosmith and horn sections...ooops, sorry for the over-simplified, penny ante version....ye ol' curmudgeony jackass.

Your reaction time is usually much better. I can barely type a moderate put-down and your response is posted before I have time to read the latest prog thread.

Swish - feeling giddy after a few Sierra Nevada Harvest Ales