Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 30
  1. #1
    Musicaholic Forums Moderator ForeverAutumn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Posts
    9,769

    Lipsincing. Yay or Nay.

    Hubby and I were watching a John Fogerty concert on TV last night and after a few minutes, it became painfully obvious that he was lipsincing.

    Because the cameras were so close, we were able to see that he was not singing. However, it is doubtful that the audience would have noticed.

    How do you feel about singers lipsincing at live shows? Do you think that if it enhances the whole performance experience itís okay to do? Or, do you think that singers should sing even if they may not sound perfect?

    If you went to a concert that you really enjoyed and then found out afterwards that the singer was lipsincing, would you be okay with it or would you feel ripped off?

  2. #2
    Suspended
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Posts
    4,380
    Quote Originally Posted by ForeverAutumn
    Hubby and I were watching a John Fogerty concert on TV last night and after a few minutes, it became painfully obvious that he was lipsincing.

    Because the cameras were so close, we were able to see that he was not singing. However, it is doubtful that the audience would have noticed.

    How do you feel about singers lipsincing at live shows? Do you think that if it enhances the whole performance experience itís okay to do? Or, do you think that singers should sing even if they may not sound perfect?

    If you went to a concert that you really enjoyed and then found out afterwards that the singer was lipsincing, would you be okay with it or would you feel ripped off?

    Sing or get off the stage. I just heard Paula Abdul canceled her shows because she can't sing anymore. They should find another way to make a killing than ripping people off paying big ticket prices to see people perform.

    Are you sure he was not singing or was the audio and video out of sync?

  3. #3
    Musicaholic Forums Moderator ForeverAutumn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Posts
    9,769
    Quote Originally Posted by Hyfi
    Sing or get off the stage. I just heard Paula Abdul canceled her shows because she can't sing anymore. They should find another way to make a killing than ripping people off paying big ticket prices to see people perform.

    Are you sure he was not singing or was the audio and video out of sync?
    At first I thought that the audio and video was out of sync. But then I realized that it would look out for half a verse and then suddenly be fine for the second half. Then it would be out again. Then it would be fine again. Then it looked like he was just moving his jaw and not even mouthing real words at times.

    But I did have to ask myself, why he would lip sync a show that was being filmed? Wouldn't he be worried that people would notice?

  4. #4
    Class of the clown GMichael's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Anywhere but here...
    Posts
    13,243
    The reason I go to a live show is to see/hear a LIVE show. If I wanted a recording I'd just play the CD. Give me the occasional mistake. That's what makes it exciting. It's the only drawback to seeing a Rush concert for me. In all the times I've seen them, I've never heard them make a mistake. Even when a beach ball ended up on stage and Alex kicked it straight into Getty's face and then Getty chased him around the back of the stage. Neither of them missed a note.
    WARNING! - The Surgeon General has determined that, time spent listening to music is not deducted from one's lifespan.

  5. #5
    Loving This kexodusc's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Location
    Department of Heuristics and Research on Material Applications
    Posts
    9,025
    I dunno - guess it depends on what I'm seeing live.

    I don't consider a lot of modern pop-acts to be terribly great musicians, but some of them are great performers. There's a difference. If Prince lypsynched I wouldn't care so much, to me he's much more spectacle and atmosphere than mastery of a technical art. If Placido Domingo got busted lypsynching, or Miles Davis was caught bopping to a recording, I'd probably be disappointed, I think the authenticity of their performances was the appeal.

    So, I guess it depends. For the record, I'm more inclined to enjoy artists who do play and sing and write their own music than those who don't. But I've seen N Synch, Garth Brooks, and Madonna put on live shows far superior to anything I've seen from the White Stripes, U2, or Radiohead, even though I'm not a fan of their music.

  6. #6
    Suspended
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Out there
    Posts
    6,777
    Let's see...

    Nillie Vanillie

    Ashlee Simpson

    ...'Nuf said.

  7. #7
    Sure, sure... Auricauricle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Yonder
    Posts
    2,886
    I always wunnered how they do it at the opera....There's jus' no way that these guys know all dat! I mean, you're tellin' me that Luciano and Jesse and dem all sing French an' German an' It-a-lien an' such an' ain' lip-synchin'?? No way, no how! Nuh-uh...No suh!

  8. #8
    Big science. Hallelujah. noddin0ff's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    X
    Posts
    2,286
    If you're being paid to perform, perform. People aren't paying to see dance and shimmy (not Fogarty anyway).

  9. #9
    Sure, sure... Auricauricle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Yonder
    Posts
    2,886
    'Greed!

  10. #10
    Close 'n Playģ user Troy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Location
    Highway 6, between Tonopah and Ely
    Posts
    2,318
    In a live context where people paid to see you perform?

    Inexcusable.

    On a TV show, it's a bit more understandable, but still not right.

    and I'll take it even further: bands that use pre-recorded material in a live context suck. ELO got busted for their string sections playing "air-violins" in the late 70s when they had the big flying saucer-stage tour. Bogus.

  11. #11
    Sure, sure... Auricauricle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Yonder
    Posts
    2,886
    Yeah well you gotta admit, an air Strad is way classier than an air Fender....

  12. #12
    Indifferentist Slosh's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Posts
    2,221
    Quote Originally Posted by kexodusc
    If Prince lipsynched I wouldn't care so much, to me he's much more spectacle and atmosphere than mastery of a technical art.
    You're joking, right? Prince is an incredible vocalist (and not too shabby on guitars, drums, piano, etc. either).

    NP:
    Attached Images Attached Images  
    Originally Posted by Troy: She has that same kind of cleft-pallet, slightly retarded way of singing that so many other people find endearing.


  13. #13
    Man of the People Forums Moderator bobsticks's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    down there
    Posts
    6,852
    Quote Originally Posted by kexodusc
    I dunno - guess it depends on what I'm seeing live.

    I don't consider a lot of modern pop-acts to be terribly great musicians, but some of them are great performers. There's a difference. If Prince lypsynched I wouldn't care so much, to me he's much more spectacle and atmosphere than mastery of a technical art. If Placido Domingo got busted lypsynching, or Miles Davis was caught bopping to a recording, I'd probably be disappointed, I think the authenticity of their performances was the appeal.

    So, I guess it depends. For the record, I'm more inclined to enjoy artists who do play and sing and write their own music than those who don't. But I've seen N Synch, Garth Brooks, and Madonna put on live shows far superior to anything I've seen from the White Stripes, U2, or Radiohead, even though I'm not a fan of their music.
    I can agree with Kex while realizing that this is a neo-audiophilic form of musical snobbery. I can assure you I expected much less of Duran Duran than I did of Wynton Marsalis...cuz some people are "real musicians", right?

    I'm not doggin' him either. Seriously, I approached it with the same mindset.

    And, yes, sometimes yer pleasantly surprised...but, um, you saw N'Synch?

  14. #14
    Forum Regular
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Adelaide, South Australia
    Posts
    231
    John Fogerty lipsynching? No, surely not! Not John Fogerty, of all people. I thought he was the real deal. (I will have to take a closer look at the DVD I have of him live.)
    All we are saying, is give peas a chance.

  15. #15
    Musicaholic Forums Moderator ForeverAutumn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Posts
    9,769
    Quote Originally Posted by emesbee
    John Fogerty lipsynching? No, surely not! Not John Fogerty, of all people. I thought he was the real deal. (I will have to take a closer look at the DVD I have of him live.)
    I'm pretty sure. I wouldn't bet my life on it...but I might bet Bobstick's.

  16. #16
    Loving This kexodusc's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Location
    Department of Heuristics and Research on Material Applications
    Posts
    9,025
    Quote Originally Posted by bobsticks
    I can agree with Kex while realizing that this is a neo-audiophilic form of musical snobbery. I can assure you I expected much less of Duran Duran than I did of Wynton Marsalis...cuz some people are "real musicians", right?

    I'm not doggin' him either. Seriously, I approached it with the same mindset.

    And, yes, sometimes yer pleasantly surprised...but, um, you saw N'Synch?
    Bro, I've seen the holy trinity of boy bands with 3 different women...NKOTB, Backstreet Boys, and N'Synch. They write songs about the depths to which I'll sink for love...

  17. #17
    42 Regular
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    West of the fields, long gone
    Posts
    1,338
    Lip-synching the lead vocal live is something that virtually no one here will defend.

    But I think that some folks here would be shocked to learn how much pre-recorded instrumentation and backing vox are used at live shows these days. And not just by pre-fab pop bands, either.

    That, IMO, is a somewhat grayer area of debate.
    Mr. MidFi
    Master of the Obvious

  18. #18
    Rocket Surgeon Swish's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Location
    Pennsylvania
    Posts
    3,918

    Well, that wouldn't be much of a bet then, would it?

    Quote Originally Posted by ForeverAutumn
    I'm pretty sure. I wouldn't bet my life on it...but I might bet Bobstick's.
    More like penny ante.

    Swish
    I call my bathroom Jim instead of John so I can tell people that I go to the Jim first thing every morning.

    If you say the word 'gullible' very slowly it sounds just like oranges.

  19. #19
    Rocket Surgeon Swish's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Location
    Pennsylvania
    Posts
    3,918

    They're using 'Click Tracks' and it sucks.

    Quote Originally Posted by GMichael
    The reason I go to a live show is to see/hear a LIVE show. If I wanted a recording I'd just play the CD. Give me the occasional mistake. That's what makes it exciting. It's the only drawback to seeing a Rush concert for me. In all the times I've seen them, I've never heard them make a mistake. Even when a beach ball ended up on stage and Alex kicked it straight into Getty's face and then Getty chased him around the back of the stage. Neither of them missed a note.
    I posted about this last year I believe. A local musician who is quite talented (very good acoustic player, singer, harmonica, sax, trumpet) was chatting with a guy from Clair Brothers Sound, a company in nearby Lancaster PA that does the live sound for many major acts. He told my friend how they have these click tracks that basically take over if any of the musicians forget a note or whatever. So they could basically screw up all they want and you get a mistake-free show. My friend was crushed by that revelation, especially since does a ton of live performances and doesn't have that luxury (he makes few mistakes though), and was basically ticked off that they use them. We're talking the Who, Led Zep...the big boys.

    I think that's nearly as bad as a lip syncing.

    Swish
    I call my bathroom Jim instead of John so I can tell people that I go to the Jim first thing every morning.

    If you say the word 'gullible' very slowly it sounds just like oranges.

  20. #20
    Sure, sure... Auricauricle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Yonder
    Posts
    2,886
    Never heard of such an animal as "click tracks", but it seems to take all the wonderment of live performance. I think all the misses and blips make the human element live and give the musicians the incentive to work harder to produce their art. "Playing it safe", whether by lip-synch, click tracks or simply not producing stuff because it's "too experimental", "too controversial" or "too hard" lowers the creative threshold and doesn't appeal to anyone.

    It's a lose-lose situation.

    Unless you like "America's Top Forty"....(Oh, did I really go there?)

  21. #21
    Rocket Surgeon Swish's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Location
    Pennsylvania
    Posts
    3,918

    How about the abomination by Van Halen?

    Quote Originally Posted by Auricauricle
    Never heard of such an animal as "click tracks", but it seems to take all the wonderment of live performance. I think all the misses and blips make the human element live and give the musicians the incentive to work harder to produce their art. "Playing it safe", whether by lip-synch, click tracks or simply not producing stuff because it's "too experimental", "too controversial" or "too hard" lowers the creative threshold and doesn't appeal to anyone.

    It's a lose-lose situation.

    Unless you like "America's Top Forty"....(Oh, did I really go there?)
    That idiot Eddie brought his son on tour in place of the original bassist, but used his pre-recorded backing vocals during their tour. What a prick!

    Swish
    I call my bathroom Jim instead of John so I can tell people that I go to the Jim first thing every morning.

    If you say the word 'gullible' very slowly it sounds just like oranges.

  22. #22
    Sure, sure... Auricauricle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Yonder
    Posts
    2,886
    There ya go....!

  23. #23
    Man of the People Forums Moderator bobsticks's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    down there
    Posts
    6,852

    hehehe

    Quote Originally Posted by ForeverAutumn
    I'm pretty sure. I wouldn't bet my life on it...but I might bet Bobstick's.
    It's good to see that holding resentments is not part of your lifestyle.

  24. #24
    Man of the People Forums Moderator bobsticks's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    down there
    Posts
    6,852
    Quote Originally Posted by Swish
    I posted about this last year I believe. A local musician who is quite talented (very good acoustic player, singer, harmonica, sax, trumpet) was chatting with a guy from Clair Brothers Sound, a company in nearby Lancaster PA that does the live sound for many major acts. He told my friend how they have these click tracks that basically take over if any of the musicians forget a note or whatever. So they could basically screw up all they want and you get a mistake-free show. My friend was crushed by that revelation, especially since does a ton of live performances and doesn't have that luxury (he makes few mistakes though), and was basically ticked off that they use them. We're talking the Who, Led Zep...the big boys.

    I think that's nearly as bad as a lip syncing.

    Swish
    Yup, Yup. My buddy Sahar did some time on the last Shania Twain tour, specifically syncing the click tracks with some of the other MIDI stuff...makes it easier on the drummers, eh. From my understanding it's not "Mistake free" per se, but pretty damn close. The guitars and bass can still wander from the pack but to get the gig at that level you have to be pretty damn good to begin with.

    If you want a basic example, think Aerosmith and horn sections...ooops, sorry for the over-simplified, penny ante version....ye ol' curmudgeony jackass.

  25. #25
    Rocket Surgeon Swish's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Location
    Pennsylvania
    Posts
    3,918

    Are you taking some meds stickster?

    Quote Originally Posted by bobsticks
    Yup, Yup. My buddy Sahar did some time on the last Shania Twain tour, specifically syncing the click tracks with some of the other MIDI stuff...makes it easier on the drummers, eh. From my understanding it's not "Mistake free" per se, but pretty damn close. The guitars and bass can still wander from the pack but to get the gig at that level you have to be pretty damn good to begin with.

    If you want a basic example, think Aerosmith and horn sections...ooops, sorry for the over-simplified, penny ante version....ye ol' curmudgeony jackass.
    Your reaction time is usually much better. I can barely type a moderate put-down and your response is posted before I have time to read the latest prog thread.

    Swish - feeling giddy after a few Sierra Nevada Harvest Ales
    I call my bathroom Jim instead of John so I can tell people that I go to the Jim first thing every morning.

    If you say the word 'gullible' very slowly it sounds just like oranges.

Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •