So, whats spinning on your flat panels today?

[JoeE SP9]

Interesting. While listening to a lot of my not-so-new cd's and records on the new maggies, I find myself getting more comparative enjoyment out of the vinyls than a majority of the cd's. I did recently get a new ( nice, but not-out-of-the-ordinary) cartridge for my TT.

I'm not sure how much impact a new cartridge has on sound improvement combined with the new speakers, but some of the old vinyls sound just great.

Today's spins:
Beatles:Abbey Road Cat Stevens:Tea for the Tillerman Ozark Mtn Daredevils:Car over the Lake Album

Has cartridge technology/quality substantially improved since I got my previous cartridge (apprx 1989)? Same question for cd's. The large majority of my current cd's are from the 80's and 90's. Are regular cd's manufactured today generally of higher audio quality than those made 15 - 20 years ago?

p.s. Great pictures of old/new crossovers done by your friend. It looks fairly simple and maybe I'll look into doing that with the 1.6's after a while. Would probably feel much more secure if I could find somebody local who knows what the hell he's doing. I'd have no trouble buying all the parts and paying for the labor.

Bill

What you propose is not that difficult. I have a reasonable amount of experience with mods of speakers and amps. Maybe I could be of assistance. I live in Phila. which should not be that far. Send me a PM and maybe we can arrange something.

[Florian]

What you propose is not that difficult. I have a reasonable amount of experience with mods of speakers and amps. Maybe I could be of assistance. I live in Phila. which should not be that far. Send me a PM and maybe we can arrange something.

Now that is a kick ass offer, i would buy some good beer, good food and bust out that soldering iron. But please guys, use silver platted copper rails on the crossovers, i will host a picture soon. Once you get the same internal witing as the capacitor feet its awsome!

Mundorf Supreme Foil Spools are a must, and the Mundorf Supreme Caps are incredible too. Lucky for you the 1.6 doesnt have many parts, the DIVA has a ****load of parts which raises the price to an insane level.

[bubslewis]

Now that is a kick ass offer, i would buy some good beer, good food and bust out that soldering iron. But please guys, use silver platted copper rails on the crossovers, i will host a picture soon. Once you get the same internal witing as the capacitor feet its awsome!

Mundorf Supreme Foil Spools are a must, and the Mundorf Supreme Caps are incredible too. Lucky for you the 1.6 doesnt have many parts, the DIVA has a ****load of parts which raises the price to an insane level.

OK. Step 1: Identify parts needed. Please remember that my electrical knowledge ranks somewhere between high-dummy and very-low-moderate.
Capacitors
Inductors
wire
some kind of board or platform
What else? (what exactly are "rails on the crossovers"?)

Starting with the caps:
The piece I read about the guy who upgraded crossovers in Maggie 1.6 was written in 2,000. At that time the total capacitance of the caps was 22 microfarads. I'm betting that hasn't changed up to now, but how can I verify that (short of cutting open the back of the speaker and looking at them)?

Assuming 22 microfarads is still valid, I would need at least 2 caps per speaker, one each for low pass and high pass (?). They would ideally be 11 microfarads each. However No one I looked at so far manufactures 11 microfarad caps.

"MusiCaps" by HOVLAND look good with a three cap arrangement of 7, 7, and 8 microfarads totalling 22. This would run about $106 per speaker.

Mundorfs are a bit more expensive. They list their cap capacitance out 2 decimal places (eg 8.20) and I can't come up with a combination that will total 22 microfarads.

Am also confused by operating voltage. HOVLAND lists their caps in "WVDC" @ 100V. Mundorf list theirs in "VDC" @ either 800 or 1200.

If I had to choose now I'd probably go with the HOVLANDs like that other guy did. Other suggestions?

thanks,
Bill

[Florian]

Hello there,

I personally run Mundorf Supreme and they are exellent. But Hovland makes wonderfull parts too, so choose whicheveron is easier for you. Mundorf makes 22uF capacitors which you can use. I run 12 of them in my DIVA crossover. Do not worry about a few decimals off spec, this doesnt make a difference. Please use Mundorf "FOIL ONLY SPOOLS". As for wiring, i can recommend silver plated copper rails since they are the same resistance as the capacitor feet. I would extend the internal wires and build a external platform or box in which to house the crossover.

Make sure you make it for biwiring and i can recommend Eichman Terminals or direct wiring.

-Flo

This was my BETA VERSION, the NEW one is MUCH prettier!

[bubslewis]

Hello there,

I personally run Mundorf Supreme and they are exellent. But Hovland makes wonderfull parts too, so choose whicheveron is easier for you. Mundorf makes 22uF capacitors which you can use. I run 12 of them in my DIVA crossover. Do not worry about a few decimals off spec, this doesnt make a difference. Please use Mundorf "FOIL ONLY SPOOLS". As for wiring, i can recommend silver plated copper rails since they are the same resistance as the capacitor feet. I would extend the internal wires and build a external platform or box in which to house the crossover.

Make sure you make it for biwiring and i can recommend Eichman Terminals or direct wiring.

-Flo

This was my BETA VERSION, the NEW one is MUCH prettier!

Hi. Thanks for the info.

Question: Discounting the differences in size, are there any advantages or disadvantages to using a single 22uF capacitor vs. using a 3 combination capacitor array that totals 22uF? The 22uF Mundorf Supreme would be less expensive than the 3 way Hovland combo.

thanks,
Bill

[JoeE SP9]

The total capacitance is what matters. It does look neater and more elegant when you use only one. Sometimes using a combination will allow closer matching from left to right. It is more important that the component values match in each crossover than anything else. For example it is better to have 23mf capacitors in each crossover than a 21mf in one and 23mf in the other. The same applies for any resistors. Some retailers will value match components for a small additional fee. If you can get parts matched this way try to do so. If you do not value match components in each crossover you will not get the same crossover frequencys and slopes for each crossover. The closer each speaker sounds to each other the better the overall sound. Matching within 1% is desirable.

[bubslewis]

The total capacitance is what matters. It does look neater and more elegant when you use only one. Sometimes using a combination will allow closer matching from left to right. It is more important that the component values match in each crossover than anything else. For example it is better to have 23mf capacitors in each crossover than a 21mf in one and 23mf in the other. The same applies for any resistors. Some retailers will value match components for a small additional fee. If you can get parts matched this way try to do so. If you do not value match components in each crossover you will not get the same crossover frequencys and slopes for each crossover. The closer each speaker sounds to each other the better the overall sound. Matching within 1% is desirable.

Found a great web site called MUG (Magnepan Users Group). http://www.integracoustics.com/MUG/MUG. In the "Tweaks" section they have just about everything about upgrading Magnepan crossovers: pictures (thank god), schematics, step-by-step instructions, recommended parts, wiring, minimum/maximum costs, how to cut the speaker cloth, etc. Really first rate.

So............I'm gonna try and change out the capacitors and the spool first by myself. All the experts on the MUG site recommend doing this prior to upgrading the wiring. Will go with the Hovland capacitors 7,7,8 uf combo and the Alpha Core air core foil inductor. Should run about $320 for both speakers.

Also printed out "How to solder" from some web site, since I don't believe I've ever soldered anything in my entire life. Actually the soldering and cutting open the speaker cloth are what scare me the most.

JoeE SP9, thanks again for your offer of assistance. I still may need some help at some point here.

[Florian]

Hi. Thanks for the info.

Question: Discounting the differences in size, are there any advantages or disadvantages to using a single 22uF capacitor vs. using a 3 combination capacitor array that totals 22uF? The 22uF Mundorf Supreme would be less expensive than the 3 way Hovland combo.

thanks,
Bill

Well, it depends on the design. My Apogees have internal rails for over 100 Ampere of current. And beating that amount trough 8 or 2 feet is a difference ;-)

I would go with 2x 11's....

[Feanor]

...

Starting with the caps:
The piece I read about the guy who upgraded crossovers in Maggie 1.6 was written in 2,000. At that time the total capacitance of the caps was 22 microfarads. I'm betting that hasn't changed up to now, but how can I verify that (short of cutting open the back of the speaker and looking at them)?

Assuming 22 microfarads is still valid, I would need at least 2 caps per speaker, one each for low pass and high pass (?). They would ideally be 11 microfarads each. However No one I looked at so far manufactures 11 microfarad caps.

"MusiCaps" by HOVLAND look good with a three cap arrangement of 7, 7, and 8 microfarads totalling 22. This would run about $106 per speaker.

Mundorfs are a bit more expensive. They list their cap capacitance out 2 decimal places (eg 8.20) and I can't come up with a combination that will total 22 microfarads.

Am also confused by operating voltage. HOVLAND lists their caps in "WVDC" @ 100V. Mundorf list theirs in "VDC" @ either 800 or 1200.

If I had to choose now I'd probably go with the HOVLANDs like that other guy did. Other suggestions?

thanks,
Bill

Given the recommendation that an MG 1.6QR crossover upgrade is a good thing, I started looking around at capacitors that I might use.

So for 22uF of capacitance I could use, say, two 10uF plus one 2uF MusiCaps, total price per side US$205.20 from Madisound -- not exactly cheap.


Alternatively I could use Solen Teflon FEP Film & Tin Foil capacitors...

4 x 10uF 1000volt @ US$428.84 = $1715.36
4 x 1uF 1000volt @ $52.94 = $211.76
Total: US$1927.12

Seems a little over the top!

[bubslewis]

Given the recommendation that an MG 1.6QR crossover upgrade is a good thing, I started looking around at capacitors that I might use.

So for 22uF of capacitance I could use, say, two 10uF plus one 2uF MusiCaps, total price per side US$205.20 from Madisound -- not exactly cheap.


Alternatively I could use Solen Teflon FEP Film & Tin Foil capacitors...

4 x 10uF 1000volt @ US$428.84 = $1715.36
4 x 1uF 1000volt @ $52.94 = $211.76
Total: US$1927.12

Seems a little over the top!

Feanor, your cost estimate puzzles me. Here's a cost estimate (US dollar) I come up with so far:

Per speaker:
One 22uF Mundorf Supreme capacitor - $89 (available at MadiSound)
One 3.5mH air core foil inductor (the spool) - $58 (available from Alpha Core Inc.)*
12 guage silver plated copper wire** - $15
Connectors (if necessary) - $20 estimated
Some kind of board - $0
Hands on assistance from JoeE SP9 - $Priceless$

Estimated cost per speaker - $180. Have I missed something?

** Florian, when you say silver plated copper rails do you mean the wires?
* Florian. I can't seem to find any USA dealers for Mundorf spools.

Thanks,
Bill

[Feanor]

Feanor, your cost estimate puzzles me. Here's a cost estimate (US dollar) I come up with so far:

Per speaker:
One 22uF Mundorf Supreme capacitor - $89 (available at MadiSound)
One 3.5mH air core foil inductor (the spool) - $58 (available from Alpha Core Inc.)*
12 guage silver plated copper wire** - $15
Connectors (if necessary) - $20 estimated
Some kind of board - $0
Hands on assistance from JoeE SP9 - $Priceless$

Estimated cost per speaker - $180. Have I missed something?

** Florian, when you say silver plated copper rails do you mean the wires?
* Florian. I can't seem to find any USA dealers for Mundorf spools.

Thanks,
Bill

Priceless indeed. Thanks, bubs. No, I don't see that you missed a thing.

Let me ask, though, are multiple parallel capacitors and/or a by-pass cap good ideas?

[bubslewis]

Priceless indeed. Thanks, bubs. No, I don't see that you missed a thing.

Let me ask, though, are multiple parallel capacitors and/or a by-pass cap good ideas?

Feanor, Magnepan manufactures the 1.6 using parallel capacitors in their crossover. What I'm doing is simply exchanging their parallel capacitor combo with a higher quality combo (minus the by pass). The total capacitance of the new capacitors will be the same as the original combo of 22 uF.

Same with the inductor spool. Just using a better one with the same 3.5 mH value as the original.

I have no idea if using a single 22uF capacitor is better/worse than a parallel setup that totals 22uF's. I kinda think either way would be OK.

I just ordered the capacitors and inductors, so I am now committed to doing this. Upgrading the capacitors and inductor spool seems to be the biggest bang for the buck as far as sonic improvement. I'll consider the wiring upgrade after I determine the extent of improvement (if any) from the new caps/spools (new caps have a 40 hour burn in period).

I figure if I can do this then just about anybody else could too. If significant improvement results then you might want to consider trying it with your 1.6's.

Will keep you posted.

thanks,
Bill

[bubslewis]

What you propose is not that difficult. I have a reasonable amount of experience with mods of speakers and amps. Maybe I could be of assistance. I live in Phila. which should not be that far. Send me a PM and maybe we can arrange something.

Hey, that's very gracious of you. I live south of York, along the MD. border. So Philly would be in the ball park, distance wise. I'll PM you if I decide to proceed. Have to work on identifying and getting the right parts. Thanks, again.

Bill