Magnepan - Still good?

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  • 03-15-2006, 05:04 PM
    bubslewis
    Magnepan - Still good?
    Recently retired my old (ancient BOSE's) front speakers and am now looking for something new. Last time I seriously auditioned any speakers was in 1988. I recall that I really liked a pair of Magnepans (can't remember the model). They were a bit above my budget at the time, plus they were driving them with a monster high current amp which they recommended I should also purchase.

    From all I've read, Magnepan still seems to be held in fairly high regard today. Any opinions?

    Was looking at Magnepan MG 12 or MG 1.6's (and maybe a 3.6) on the internet. Would they require a super high current amp? Would something like an ADCOM 5400 (125W into 8 ohm, 200W into 4 ohm, fairly substantial current output) be sufficient?

    Any feedback welcomed. Always like to have as much ammunition as possible before I go stick my neck out and listen to them.

    thanks,
    Bill
  • 03-15-2006, 05:59 PM
    E-Stat
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by bubslewis
    From all I've read, Magnepan still seems to be held in fairly high regard today. Any opinions?

    You really need to hear a current pair for yourself with familiar music. I have thought they were something special since I first heard a pair of Tympani I-Us back in '74. Like all bipolars, however, they require some "breathing" room behind them to sound their best.

    rw
  • 03-15-2006, 08:05 PM
    Mike Anderson
    I friggin' LOVE my 1.6's, and a lot of other people here will swear by them too. It's a truly impressive speaker for the money.

    For the full effect, I think they do require a fair amount of current -- but quality is more important than quantity in many ways.

    I should say, however, that there is a growing contigent of people over at Audio Asylum who are going with super-cheap (but very high power) pro-quality power amps like Behringer or QSC. You'd probably want a decent pre-amp with that, though, and you need a way to silence/replace the fan.

    I can't speak to the Adcom you mention, never having tried it. But be aware that watt ratings are not always comparable across different manufacturers.
  • 03-15-2006, 08:30 PM
    bubslewis
    Thanks for feedback. Was planning (hoping) to use the pre-amp outputs from a Yamaha RX2500 A/V receiver into the amp for the Magnepans. I don't know how the pre-amp in the Yamaha stacks up against using a stand-alone preamp for the Magnepan
  • 03-16-2006, 12:50 AM
    accastil
    hi bubs,
    yes indeed! maggies are really good..but only for a limited type of music. light jazz, classical and all those light and mellow music are a glory when listened to at maggies. but take note that maggies are not that impressive with more aggressive and bassful music such as rock, disco, pop, etc...and yes you are right, they require more powerful amps than box speakers. your yamaha receiver may not be enought to squeeze the juice out of them. why not audition Monitor Audio, Linn Ninka, Pro Ac, Triangle...they sound as good as maggies in my opinion and they will never fail to meet your expectations given any kind of music you would want to play. cheers!
  • 03-16-2006, 12:57 AM
    Florian
    Get the room, electronics and setup right and they will rock, hop, beat you and astound you. There is no speaker in the same price range that will give you more sound "QUALITY"

    -Flo

    PS: Regarding the amp, maggies will work fine with lower powered amps, but they need tons of current (not receiver) to shine. If interested in alternatives that improve upon them, let me know via PM. I had many maggies and loved them all.
  • 03-16-2006, 07:36 AM
    Mike Anderson
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by accastil
    hi bubs,
    yes indeed! maggies are really good..but only for a limited type of music. light jazz, classical and all those light and mellow music are a glory when listened to at maggies. but take note that maggies are not that impressive with more aggressive and bassful music such as rock, disco, pop, etc..

    I have to disagree there. Jazz/classical/acoustic make up only a small portion of my listening. I have tons of bass-heavy music, and the 1.6's do it gloriously. They just have to be positioned properly, and driven with enough current.

    Too many people are drawing this conclusion based on: 1) what they heard at a dealer's where zero attention was paid to room position; or 2) the MMGs they heard, which do indeed lack some punch.

    Properly setup 1.6's will definitely rock and pump out the bass. If you want even more thump, you can always add a subwoofer.
  • 03-16-2006, 12:05 PM
    Florian
    I disagree with that, and will try to explain why in my opinion which is purely based on sonics and has a complete disregard to looks and cuteness.
    <o></o>
    Before we start: Rock and POP music is not 100% bass….there is tons in the midrange, treble and it requires a fast, clean and dry bass to enjoy it. All which can easily be achieved by a planar speaker such as the Maggies. <o></o>
    <o></o>
    First we have to get rid of this generalisation of “planars”, I tried to explain this to RGA, Wooch. and others but usually failed. There are electrostatics like the Quads, Acoustats, Soundlabbs and Martin Logan CLS. Then there are planar magnetic speakers and planar magnetic hybrids such as the Magnepan’s, Analysis Audio. Then we have ribbons speakers, which there is only two companys that have made fullrange ribbon speakers that I am aware of which is Apogee Acoustics and Perigee. <o></o>
    <o></o>
    A planar speaker is a speaker which uses a large flat, thin diaphragm for a driver in a none-enclosed chassy, which radiates in a dipole or bipole configuration. <o></o>
    <o></o>
    Box speakers have very little area that actually moves air and needs the box and/or corners to generate any deep bass which introduces resonances from the box incl. coloration. You have a small driver with a magnet in the back, if you excurt the driver it bends around the corners and introduces distortion and the driver does not move like a piston. On a planar speaker the membrane is very light and moves almost not at all compared to a regular box driver. The magnets and the force over area is much greater which gives you more control of the driver itself.<o></o>
    <o></o>
    If you take a massive object like a soccer ball and try to move it with wind and the balls runs, then it will continue to run on its own much longer then if you blow on a feather. The problem is getting the cone to stop without any overhang. Planars do not have this problem. On a side note, this was tried to control by servo motors, lighter membranes and more control of the driver. <o></o>
    <o></o>
    Now on to the planar differences and why they are not created equal. Also here are some general missunderstanings. <o></o>
    <o></o>
    • Magnepans are NOT ribbon speakers. (See point A)<o></o>
    • Planars are bass shy and dynamically limited (See point B)<o></o>
    • Boxes can play louder<o></o>
    <o></o>
    But first of, what is a ribbon? <o></o>
    <o></o>
    A: A ribbons is a single strip of a thin material (usually aluminium) suspended freely between two points (top and bottom) in a magnetic field. The current flows through the ribbon which counteracts with the magnetic field and vibrates and makes sound.<o></o>
    <o></o>
    What is a planar magnetic? <o></o>
    <o></o>
    A: A planar magnetic is a sheet membrane suspended on all 4 sides, sitting in front, back or push pull configuration of a magnetic field. The foil (Myler in the case of the Maggies) has current carrying devices (copper rails on the Maggies) glued on to the surface. The current goes through the copper which is attached to the foil and interacts with the magnetic field which then moves the driver and makes sound. <o></o>
    <o></o>
    What is a QR? <o></o>
    <o></o>
    A: A quassi ribbon are thin aluminium strips glued onto the mylar main surface which gets driven directly. The advantage is that it can move faster then the main mylar foil and its cheaper to make then a true ribbon.<o></o>
    <o></o>
    Magnepan Model Line-Up<o></o>
    <o>
    </o>
    The MG12 is a small “planat magnetic” speaker with the “QR”, it used the main mylar foil for the bass and lower midrange, and uses the quassi ribbon as the upper midrage and tweeter driver. <o></o>
    <o></o>
    The MG 1.6 uses the same principle, but a bit larger. <o></o>
    <o></o>
    The MG 3.6, uses the Mylaer foil as a bass and midrange driver while using a true ribbon tweeter for the high frequencys. <o></o>
    <o></o>
    The MG 20 is interesting since it uses the mylar foil as a bass driver, the quassi ribbon on the midrange and a true ribbon as the tweeter. <o></o>
    <o></o>
    To give you all an example, I will compare these to my speakers and the technical differences. (I chose my own, because it’s the best for an example)<o></o>
    <o></o>
    The Apogee DIVA, Scintilla, Caliper, Duetta, Fullrange etc... use a true ribbon tweeter, true ribbon midrange and a single ended ribbon. Now I hear you saying, a “single ended ribbon”!?, well Apogee Acoustics uses the 100% same material for every single driver range. The bass system is ONLY fixed at the left and right side (not top to bottom) and damped at the top and bottom. The current moves through the ribbons and moves the drivers back and forth from the magnet array in the back.<o></o>
    <o></o>
    Magnepans use a thick mylar foil glued with copper wires, which makes them very heavy compared to Quads, Soundlabs, Apogees, Acoustats and other planars. As we know, a moving mass is hard to stop once in motion. The midrange is connected onto the main mylar foil, which again is very thick and heavy and of course limits you on top end extension which is why the top model is more like a true ribbon design then the 3.6, 1.6 etc… The cost of making a true ribbon speaker is much more and their sensitivity to external sources is much greater (shipping, HIFI shop visitors etc) <o>
    </o><o></o>
    How does this effect the sound, well in my opinion a speaker as to be close to no sonic signature, no mass with a huge force control behind it, lack of coloration and has to get close to the normal radiation pattern of an instrument. Planar speakers can get very close to that, with a much greater ease then any box speaker on this planet. Have you ever wondered why the top end designs in this world use ribbons? Well, because they have no mass, huge control over them and no coloration. <o></o>
    <o></o>
    To move on, why do some people say that planars don’t have bass or are dynamically limited?<o></o>
    <o></o>
    A: The problem for most is the resonant frequency of the membrane. On a square design you will have a problem getting the resonant frequency low enough so you don’t hear them, or you enlarge the panel. The bass section of the MMG, MG/SE, MG12, MG1.6, MG3.6 and MG20.1 is identicall exept for SIZE. The larger they make them, the lower the RF and they get more extension. This is why Apogee uses a trapezoid,, (patented) which spreads the RF’s to a much larger are and lowers it which lets them go so low in the bass<o></o>
    <o></o>
    To give you some FACTS straight from an owner, the Apogee Scintilla does 24Hz before drop off in my room with extension to 19Hz, the DIVA does 23Hz before dropping with 1db down to 18Hz. With digital EQ I improved this even further. But you have to control the driver, each material has a certain resistance. The Magnepans are quite easy but requite vasts amount of power to get them going, and to improve the driver control which lowers their bass response and extension.<o></o>
    <o></o>
    If you do NOT feed them enough power, and if the amp flinches then you loose control of the membrane which limites you max spl and frequency response. Its all about what is driving them and how it drives it. <o></o>
    <o></o>
    Apogee’s love current and they are designed to carry 100A internally, they can eat a power amp for breakfast. To a side note, when people Apogees are difficult, they are full of it. The pure Aluminium drivers have a low resistance which means that the amp has to handle it. But they are quite efficient and its like driving a non variable changing resistor. EASY!! The Maggies are a bit similar but have more swings and their 4ohm load make them a bit hard, since most amps cannot deliver enough power into the 4ohm load. <o></o>
    <o></o>
    The room, plays a important part of the planar experience, you need sufficient time delay between the primary and secondary wave and give those speakers ROOM to breath. They move AIR, they don’t compress it in a box…they push and move the air around in your room.<o></o>
    <o></o>
    <!--[if !supportLists]-->·<!--[endif]-->It is important that your speakers have ROOM…<o></o>
    <!--[if !supportLists]-->·<!--[endif]-->Planars have no box, but the ROOM is their box<o></o>
    <!--[if !supportLists]-->·<!--[endif]-->At a 4ohm load you needs loads of power to get enough control into the Maggies<o>
    </o> <!--[if !supportLists]-->·<!--[endif]-->They are much lighter faster then box drivers and lack the chassy, so feed them the best and esp. control! <o></o>
    <o></o>
    As a closing statement, Maggies are wonderfull. But they are not the end and a compromise in the planar world. Their membranes are too heavy, the 4ohm load impractical, and the drivers have different signatures. BUT they are lighter, faster, less colored and more revealing then any box counterparts below 10K.<o></o>
    <o></o>
    -Flo


    Addon: Planars load the room more equally, which exites less room nodes and makes up for a more even in room responces. The DB drop off from a line source is far less then from a cone, dome system at 1.3m tall. You have no cabinet resonances, no driver mass, much controll and equal driver speeds and lack of coloration etc... all which make up for far MORE then if you miss the excited room nodes at 35Hz from box with cabinet resonances, high driver mass, room gain, room nodes, unequal sonic signatures etc....
    <o></o>
  • 03-16-2006, 12:05 PM
    Florian
    I disagree with that, and will try to explain why in my opinion which is purely based on sonics and has a complete disregard to looks and cuteness.
    <o></o>
    Before we start: Rock and POP music is not 100% bass….there is tons in the midrange, treble and it requires a fast, clean and dry bass to enjoy it. All which can easily be achieved by a planar speaker such as the Maggies. <o></o>
    <o></o>
    First we have to get rid of this generalisation of “planars”, I tried to explain this to RGA, Wooch. and others but usually failed. There are electrostatics like the Quads, Acoustats, Soundlabbs and Martin Logan CLS. Then there are planat magnetic speakers and planat magnetic hybrids such as the Magnepan’s, Analysis Audio. Then we have ribbons speakers, which there is only two companys that have made fullrange ribbon speakers that I am aware of which is Apogee Acoustics and Perigee. <o></o>
    <o></o>
    A planar speaker is a speaker which uses a large flat, thin diaphragm for a driver in a none-enclosed chassy, which radiates in a dipole or bipole configuration. <o></o>
    <o></o>
    Box speakers have very little area that actually moves air and needs the box and/or corners to generate any deep bass which introduces resonances from the box incl. coloration. You have a small driver with a magnet in the back, if you excurt the driver it bends around the corners and introduces distortion and the driver does not move like a piston. On a planar speaker the membrane is very light and moves almost not at all compared to a regular box driver. The magnets and the force over area is much greater which gives you more control of the driver itself.<o></o>
    <o></o>
    If you take a massive object like a soccer ball and try to move it with wind and the balls runs, then it will continue to run on its own much longer then if you blow on a feather. The problem is getting the cone to stop without any overhang. Planars do not have this problem. On a side note, this was tried to control by servo motors, lighter membranes and more control of the driver. <o></o>
    <o></o>
    Now on to the planar differences and why they are not created equal. Also here are some general missunderstanings. <o></o>
    <o></o>
    • Magnepans are NOT ribbon speakers. (See point A)<o></o>
    • Planars are bass shy and dynamically limited (See point B)<o></o>
    • Boxes can play louder<o></o>
    <o></o>
    But first of, what is a ribbon? <o></o>
    <o></o>
    A: A ribbons is a single strip of a thin material (usually aluminium) suspended freely between two points (top and bottom) in a magnetic field. The current flows through the ribbon which counteracts with the magnetic field and vibrates and makes sound.<o></o>
    <o></o>
    What is a planar magnetic? <o></o>
    <o></o>
    A: A planar magnetic is a sheet membrane suspended on all 4 sides, sitting in front, back or push pull configuration of a magnetic field. The foil (Myler in the case of the Maggies) has current carrying devices (copper rails on the Maggies) glued on to the surface. The current goes through the copper which is attached to the foil and interacts with the magnetic field which then moves the driver and makes sound. <o></o>
    <o></o>
    What is a QR? <o></o>
    <o></o>
    A: A quassi ribbon are thin aluminium strips glued onto the mylar main surface which gets driven directly. The advantage is that it can move faster then the main mylar foil and its cheaper to make then a true ribbon.<o></o>
    <o></o>
    Magnepan Model Line-Up<o></o>
    <o>
    </o>
    The MG12 is a small “planat magnetic” speaker with the “QR”, it used the main mylar foil for the bass and lower midrange, and uses the quassi ribbon as the upper midrage and tweeter driver. <o></o>
    <o></o>
    The MG 1.6 uses the same principle, but a bit larger. <o></o>
    <o></o>
    The MG 3.6, uses the Mylaer foil as a bass and midrange driver while using a true ribbon tweeter for the high frequencys. <o></o>
    <o></o>
    The MG 20 is interesting since it uses the mylar foil as a bass driver, the quassi ribbon on the midrange and a true ribbon as the tweeter. <o></o>
    <o></o>
    To give you all an example, I will compare these to my speakers and the technical differences. (I chose my own, because it’s the best for an example)<o></o>
    <o></o>
    The Apogee DIVA, Scintilla, Caliper, Duetta, Fullrange etc... use a true ribbon tweeter, true ribbon midrange and a single ended ribbon. Now I hear you saying, a “single ended ribbon”!?, well Apogee Acoustics uses the 100% same material for every single driver range. The bass system is ONLY fixed at the left and right side (not top to bottom) and damped at the top and bottom. The current moves through the ribbons and moves the drivers back and forth from the magnet array in the back.<o></o>
    <o></o>
    Magnepans use a thick mylar foil glued with copper wires, which makes them very heavy compared to Quads, Soundlabs, Apogees, Acoustats and other planars. As we know, a moving mass is hard to stop once in motion. The midrange is connected onto the main mylar foil, which again is very thick and heavy and of course limits you on top end extension which is why the top model is more like a true ribbon design then the 3.6, 1.6 etc… The cost of making a true ribbon speaker is much more and their sensitivity to external sources is much greater (shipping, HIFI shop visitors etc) <o>
    </o><o></o>
    How does this effect the sound, well in my opinion a speaker as to be close to no sonic signature, no mass with a huge force control behind it, lack of coloration and has to get close to the normal radiation pattern of an instrument. Planar speakers can get very close to that, with a much greater ease then any box speaker on this planet. Have you ever wondered why the top end designs in this world use ribbons? Well, because they have no mass, huge control over them and no coloration. <o></o>
    <o></o>
    To move on, why do some people say that planars don’t have bass or are dynamically limited?<o></o>
    <o></o>
    A: The problem for most is the resonant frequency of the membrane. On a square design you will have a problem getting the resonant frequency low enough so you don’t hear them, or you enlarge the panel. The bass section of the MMG, MG/SE, MG12, MG1.6, MG3.6 and MG20.1 is identicall exept for SIZE. The larger they make them, the lower the RF and they get more extension. This is why Apogee uses a trapezoid,, (patented) which spreads the RF’s to a much larger are and lowers it which lets them go so low in the bass<o></o>
    <o></o>
    To give you some FACTS straight from an owner, the Apogee Scintilla does 24Hz before drop off in my room with extension to 19Hz, the DIVA does 23Hz before dropping with 1db down to 18Hz. With digital EQ I improved this even further. But you have to control the driver, each material has a certain resistance. The Magnepans are quite easy but requite vasts amount of power to get them going, and to improve the driver control which lowers their bass response and extension.<o></o>
    <o></o>
    If you do NOT feed them enough power, and if the amp flinches then you loose control of the membrane which limites you max spl and frequency response. Its all about what is driving them and how it drives it. <o></o>
    <o></o>
    Apogee’s love current and they are designed to carry 100A internally, they can eat a power amp for breakfast. To a side note, when people Apogees are difficult, they are full of it. The pure Aluminium drivers have a low resistance which means that the amp has to handle it. But they are quite efficient and its like driving a non variable changing resistor. EASY!! The Maggies are a bit similar but have more swings and their 4ohm load make them a bit hard, since most amps cannot deliver enough power into the 4ohm load. <o></o>
    <o></o>
    The room, plays a important part of the planar experience, you need sufficient time delay between the primary and secondary wave and give those speakers ROOM to breath. They move AIR, they don’t compress it in a box…they push and move the air around in your room.<o></o>
    <o></o>
    <!--[if !supportLists]-->·<!--[endif]-->It is important that your speakers have ROOM…<o></o>
    <!--[if !supportLists]-->·<!--[endif]-->Planars have no box, but the ROOM is their box<o></o>
    <!--[if !supportLists]-->·<!--[endif]-->At a 4ohm load you needs loads of power to get enough control into the Maggies<o>
    </o> <!--[if !supportLists]-->·<!--[endif]-->They are much lighter faster then box drivers and lack the chassy, so feed them the best and esp. control! <o></o>
    <o></o>
    As a closing statement, Maggies are wonderfull. But they are not the end and a compromise in the planar world. Their membranes are too heavy, the 4ohm load impractical, and the drivers have different signatures. BUT they are lighter, faster, less colored and more revealing then any box counterparts below 10K.<o></o>
    <o></o>
    -Flo<o></o>
  • 03-16-2006, 12:33 PM
    GMichael
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Florian
    I disagree with that, and will try to explain why in my opinion which is purely based on sonics and has a complete disregard to looks and cuteness.
    <o></o>
    Before we start: Rock and POP music is not 100% bass….there is tons in the midrange, treble and it requires a fast, clean and dry bass to enjoy it. All which can easily be achieved by a planar speaker such as the Maggies. <o></o>
    <o></o>
    First we have to get rid of this generalisation of “planars”, I tried to explain this to RGA, Wooch. and others but usually failed. There are electrostatics like the Quads, Acoustats, Soundlabbs and Martin Logan CLS. Then there are planat magnetic speakers and planat magnetic hybrids such as the Magnepan’s, Analysis Audio. Then we have ribbons speakers, which there is only two companys that have made fullrange ribbon speakers that I am aware of which is Apogee Acoustics and Perigee. <o></o>
    <o></o>
    A planar speaker is a speaker which uses a large flat, thin diaphragm for a driver in a none-enclosed chassy, which radiates in a dipole or bipole configuration. <o></o>
    <o></o>
    Box speakers have very little area that actually moves air and needs the box and/or corners to generate any deep bass which introduces resonances from the box incl. coloration. You have a small driver with a magnet in the back, if you excurt the driver it bends around the corners and introduces distortion and the driver does not move like a piston. On a planar speaker the membrane is very light and moves almost not at all compared to a regular box driver. The magnets and the force over area is much greater which gives you more control of the driver itself.<o></o>
    <o></o>
    If you take a massive object like a soccer ball and try to move it with wind and the balls runs, then it will continue to run on its own much longer then if you blow on a feather. The problem is getting the cone to stop without any overhang. Planars do not have this problem. On a side note, this was tried to control by servo motors, lighter membranes and more control of the driver. <o></o>
    <o></o>
    Now on to the planar differences and why they are not created equal. Also here are some general missunderstanings. <o></o>
    <o></o>
    • Magnepans are NOT ribbon speakers. (See point A)<o></o>
    • Planars are bass shy and dynamically limited (See point B)<o></o>
    • Boxes can play louder<o></o>
    <o></o>
    But first of, what is a ribbon? <o></o>
    <o></o>
    A: A ribbons is a single strip of a thin material (usually aluminium) suspended freely between two points (top and bottom) in a magnetic field. The current flows through the ribbon which counteracts with the magnetic field and vibrates and makes sound.<o></o>
    <o></o>
    What is a planar magnetic? <o></o>
    <o></o>
    A: A planar magnetic is a sheet membrane suspended on all 4 sides, sitting in front, back or push pull configuration of a magnetic field. The foil (Myler in the case of the Maggies) has current carrying devices (copper rails on the Maggies) glued on to the surface. The current goes through the copper which is attached to the foil and interacts with the magnetic field which then moves the driver and makes sound. <o></o>
    <o></o>
    What is a QR? <o></o>
    <o></o>
    A: A quassi ribbon are thin aluminium strips glued onto the mylar main surface which gets driven directly. The advantage is that it can move faster then the main mylar foil and its cheaper to make then a true ribbon.<o></o>
    <o></o>
    Magnepan Model Line-Up<o></o>
    <o>
    </o>
    The MG12 is a small “planat magnetic” speaker with the “QR”, it used the main mylar foil for the bass and lower midrange, and uses the quassi ribbon as the upper midrage and tweeter driver. <o></o>
    <o></o>
    The MG 1.6 uses the same principle, but a bit larger. <o></o>
    <o></o>
    The MG 3.6, uses the Mylaer foil as a bass and midrange driver while using a true ribbon tweeter for the high frequencys. <o></o>
    <o></o>
    The MG 20 is interesting since it uses the mylar foil as a bass driver, the quassi ribbon on the midrange and a true ribbon as the tweeter. <o></o>
    <o></o>
    To give you all an example, I will compare these to my speakers and the technical differences. (I chose my own, because it’s the best for an example)<o></o>
    <o></o>
    The Apogee DIVA, Scintilla, Caliper, Duetta, Fullrange etc... use a true ribbon tweeter, true ribbon midrange and a single ended ribbon. Now I hear you saying, a “single ended ribbon”!?, well Apogee Acoustics uses the 100% same material for every single driver range. The bass system is ONLY fixed at the left and right side (not top to bottom) and damped at the top and bottom. The current moves through the ribbons and moves the drivers back and forth from the magnet array in the back.<o></o>
    <o></o>
    Magnepans use a thick mylar foil glued with copper wires, which makes them very heavy compared to Quads, Soundlabs, Apogees, Acoustats and other planars. As we know, a moving mass is hard to stop once in motion. The midrange is connected onto the main mylar foil, which again is very thick and heavy and of course limits you on top end extension which is why the top model is more like a true ribbon design then the 3.6, 1.6 etc… The cost of making a true ribbon speaker is much more and their sensitivity to external sources is much greater (shipping, HIFI shop visitors etc) <o>
    </o><o></o>
    How does this effect the sound, well in my opinion a speaker as to be close to no sonic signature, no mass with a huge force control behind it, lack of coloration and has to get close to the normal radiation pattern of an instrument. Planar speakers can get very close to that, with a much greater ease then any box speaker on this planet. Have you ever wondered why the top end designs in this world use ribbons? Well, because they have no mass, huge control over them and no coloration. <o></o>
    <o></o>
    To move on, why do some people say that planars don’t have bass or are dynamically limited?<o></o>
    <o></o>
    A: The problem for most is the resonant frequency of the membrane. On a square design you will have a problem getting the resonant frequency low enough so you don’t hear them, or you enlarge the panel. The bass section of the MMG, MG/SE, MG12, MG1.6, MG3.6 and MG20.1 is identicall exept for SIZE. The larger they make them, the lower the RF and they get more extension. This is why Apogee uses a trapezoid,, (patented) which spreads the RF’s to a much larger are and lowers it which lets them go so low in the bass<o></o>
    <o></o>
    To give you some FACTS straight from an owner, the Apogee Scintilla does 24Hz before drop off in my room with extension to 19Hz, the DIVA does 23Hz before dropping with 1db down to 18Hz. With digital EQ I improved this even further. But you have to control the driver, each material has a certain resistance. The Magnepans are quite easy but requite vasts amount of power to get them going, and to improve the driver control which lowers their bass response and extension.<o></o>
    <o></o>
    If you do NOT feed them enough power, and if the amp flinches then you loose control of the membrane which limites you max spl and frequency response. Its all about what is driving them and how it drives it. <o></o>
    <o></o>
    Apogee’s love current and they are designed to carry 100A internally, they can eat a power amp for breakfast. To a side note, when people Apogees are difficult, they are full of it. The pure Aluminium drivers have a low resistance which means that the amp has to handle it. But they are quite efficient and its like driving a non variable changing resistor. EASY!! The Maggies are a bit similar but have more swings and their 4ohm load make them a bit hard, since most amps cannot deliver enough power into the 4ohm load. <o></o>
    <o></o>
    The room, plays a important part of the planar experience, you need sufficient time delay between the primary and secondary wave and give those speakers ROOM to breath. They move AIR, they don’t compress it in a box…they push and move the air around in your room.<o></o>
    <o></o>
    <!--[if !supportLists]-->·<!--[endif]-->It is important that your speakers have ROOM…<o></o>
    <!--[if !supportLists]-->·<!--[endif]-->Planars have no box, but the ROOM is their box<o></o>
    <!--[if !supportLists]-->·<!--[endif]-->At a 4ohm load you needs loads of power to get enough control into the Maggies<o>
    </o> <!--[if !supportLists]-->·<!--[endif]-->They are much lighter faster then box drivers and lack the chassy, so feed them the best and esp. control! <o></o>
    <o></o>
    As a closing statement, Maggies are wonderfull. But they are not the end and a compromise in the planar world. Their membranes are too heavy, the 4ohm load impractical, and the drivers have different signatures. BUT they are lighter, faster, less colored and more revealing then any box counterparts below 10K.<o></o>
    <o></o>
    -Flo<o></o>

    But will they play hip hop?
  • 03-16-2006, 03:40 PM
    Kaboom
    LOOOOOOOOOL
    what about nu-metal?
  • 03-16-2006, 05:42 PM
    Feanor
    Yes! Believe it!
    [quote=bubslewis]
    ....
    From all I've read, Magnepan still seems to be held in fairly high regard today. Any opinions?

    Was looking at Magnepan MG 12 or MG 1.6's (and maybe a 3.6) on the internet. Would they require a super high current amp? Would something like an ADCOM 5400 (125W into 8 ohm, 200W into 4 ohm, fairly substantial current output) be sufficient?
    ...
    /quote]

    No better speaker under US$2000 than the MG 1.6QR. Especially for accoustic music nothing else can do the same thing -- air, transparency & detail but smooth and effortless; there-in-the-room reproduction. But there might be better choice is you need to play rock music very loud.

    As for any Magneplanar -- or any dipole speaker -- placement can be an issue but it's not as big a problem as some people make out. Sufficient power is necesary: 100 watts/ch @ 4 ohms pretty much the minimum for decent volume in a medium room.
  • 03-16-2006, 06:49 PM
    bubslewis
    [QUOTE=Feanor]
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by bubslewis
    ....
    From all I've read, Magnepan still seems to be held in fairly high regard today. Any opinions?

    Was looking at Magnepan MG 12 or MG 1.6's (and maybe a 3.6) on the internet. Would they require a super high current amp? Would something like an ADCOM 5400 (125W into 8 ohm, 200W into 4 ohm, fairly substantial current output) be sufficient?
    ...
    /quote]

    No better speaker under US$2000 than the MG 1.6QR. Especially for accoustic music nothing else can do the same thing -- air, transparency & detail but smooth and effortless; there-in-the-room reproduction. But there might be better choice is you need to play rock music very loud.

    As for any Magneplanar -- or any dipole speaker -- placement can be an issue but it's not as big a problem as some people make out. Sufficient power is necesary: 100 watts/ch @ 4 ohms pretty much the minimum for decent volume in a medium room.

    Thanks for feedback. I'm not a bass freak and loud rock music will only be occasional at best. Also have a modest 100W self powered sub to help out if needed. Have a fairly rectangular 17' x 26' room which will allow placement about 3 ft out from back wall and 4 -5 ft. from side walls.

    I think my ADCOM amp will be sufficient..... not great, but sufficient. Next chore: break it to the wife.Then to the "Listening Room" in Baltimore (closest dealer) to listen to them. Oh boy oh boy.
  • 03-16-2006, 07:32 PM
    Woochifer
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by bubslewis
    Thanks for feedback. I'm not a bass freak and loud rock music will only be occasional at best. Also have a modest 100W self powered sub to help out if needed. Have a fairly rectangular 17' x 26' room which will allow placement about 3 ft out from back wall and 4 -5 ft. from side walls.

    I think my ADCOM amp will be sufficient..... not great, but sufficient. Next chore: break it to the wife.Then to the "Listening Room" in Baltimore (closest dealer) to listen to them. Oh boy oh boy.

    Your room seems like a good size for the Maggies. Hopefully, they'll pass aesthetic muster with the wife, because the 1.6s are fairly large and sound optimal with a fair amount of space behind them.

    But, definitely try the 1.6 with your amp before you decide. If you can't borrow the speakers for home audition, you should bring your amp to the dealer and hook it up to their demo rig. I heard the 1.6 with an Adcom amp (I believe it was the GFA-5500), and the sound started to audibly compress when it reached moderately high levels. Whether limitations with the amp or the speaker were the culprit, that combination did not work well once I turned the volume above my normal listening levels. At normal listening levels and with acoustic music, the 1.6s sounded quite good. With amplified instruments and at higher than normal levels, the results were less than ideal IMO.
  • 03-16-2006, 11:20 PM
    RGA
    I agree with Woochifer -- the speakers will heavily compress at what I consider decent volume levels -- but for lower volumes to mid volumes the 1.6 is tough to beat --- it does many very intriguing things in this price range. The Adcom should easily have enough power to drive any of the maggies you are discussing. As usual the best thing to do is listen -- what I find a necessity in volume level you may find loud and unecessary then again if you like trance a small scale club levels then chances are you will be looking for soemthing else -- but the 1.6 is one of the better speakers in this price range -- and that is worth a listen.
  • 03-17-2006, 12:11 AM
    Florian
    Go figure, the factless, non-experienced, planar bashing group just made an arival....enjoy :17:
  • 03-17-2006, 05:22 AM
    Bernd
    If you take a massive object like a soccer ball and try to move it with wind and the balls runs, then it will continue to run on its own much longer then if you blow on a feather. The problem is getting the cone to stop without any overhang.(Quote)

    I thought I put my 2ct in.

    I do like the example given by Florian. There is however one important factor missing from it.The cone (soccerball) and the feather (ribbon,foil,etc) are all attached to the speaker.You would have to attach the soccerball to a rubber line and the feather to some sort of frame. A correctly designed cone will stop dead when the signal demands it. Again it's quality that dictates the outcome here.

    Just as a quick footnote. I experienced a superbly sounding speaker ( Soundlab A-1, driven by Musical Fidelity X-A200 mono blocks and a Musical Fidelity Nu-Vista pre) yesterday at a clients house. I spotted it through a small gap in a room opposite from where we sat. And he was ever so pleased to let me listen.
    Let me say from the begining -Bass- no problem. Plenty,articulate and tight. I really enjoyed my time listening to the Soundlabs.We had Deep Purple-Made in Japan, Bob Marley-Exodus,etc. The most important thing for me was that I enjoyed the music as much as I do through my ART Emotions. True the presentation is slightly different, maybe a bit more airy but also a little less natural, but those where minor facts. Could I live with them? Yes absolutly.Are they "better" then mine? That's not really the issue I believe. I loved the music being played through them. Would I swap them for mine? No, I like mine better.
    So I am pleased I am not a full range planar virgin anymore. I can honestly see the attraction in them now.
    So if you have the room and are on the upgrade trail I would seriously consider a panel speaker. But as was said before "No speaker is created equal".Auditioning is the key.

    Peace

    Bernd:16:
  • 03-17-2006, 05:54 AM
    Florian
    Mmmh, now wait till you hear the A1's with a good amp. The XA-200 is good, but not good enough for the A1. You should suggest some Einstein OTL's for them and literraly see the magic and warthm. Like i said, bass is not an issue, neither is chamber resonance or driver curving, integration etc.....

    Bernd has speakers costing over 10K, now let me ask you this. Name me one speaker below 10K that has the resoution, speed, integration, lack of coloration, lack of chamber resonance like the 1.6 Maggie?

    Thats right...

    Keep on rocking! :cornut:

    PS: Why does Bernd get the integration? Simple, ONLY TWO DRIVERS, DEAD chassy etc...with tubes. You wont find any box in the 1.6 range and a few thousands on top of that which more realitically produces music.
  • 03-17-2006, 06:36 AM
    GMichael
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Florian

    Bernd has speakers costing over 10K, now let me ask you this. Name me one speaker below 10K that has the resoution, speed, integration, lack of coloration, lack of chamber resonance like the 1.6 Maggie?

    .

    Oooh oooh oooh, I know, I know. Let me guess. Could it be the 3.6's? Ha! Didn't think I knew did ya?

    I like the Totems too though. Sure, they may be colored. But I liked their color.
  • 03-17-2006, 06:39 AM
    Florian
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by GMichael
    Oooh oooh oooh, I know, I know. Let me guess. Could it be the 3.6's? Ha! Didn't think I knew did ya?

    I like the Totems too though. Sure, they may be colored. But I liked their color.

    But the 3.6 aint a box ;-)

    Its perfectly normal to like box speakers, i have some too in my place. I am fighting against the idiots who spread lies and non-facts about my prefered type of speaker. I get just as angry at them for telling crap about planars then they get angry at me for telling them that B&W, Paradigm etc...is all junk. I'd rather listen to a transistor radio :)
  • 03-17-2006, 07:04 AM
    GMichael
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Florian
    But the 3.6 aint a box ;-)

    Its perfectly normal to like box speakers, i have some too in my place. I am fighting against the idiots who spread lies and non-facts about my prefered type of speaker. I get just as angry at them for telling crap about planars then they get angry at me for telling them that B&W, Paradigm etc...is all junk. I'd rather listen to a transistor radio :)

    Oh, sorry Flo. Didn't mean to rev you up. I was just joking with ya man.

    You do know that the others are not really idiots right? They just disagree with you. And they like yanking your chain.
  • 03-17-2006, 07:13 AM
    Florian
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by GMichael
    Oh, sorry Flo. Didn't mean to rev you up. I was just joking with ya man.

    You do know that the others are not really idiots right? They just disagree with you. And they like yanking your chain.

    I know that :-)

    I know that some are not idiots, but i am serious about the transistor radio :)
  • 03-17-2006, 08:17 AM
    Woochifer
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Florian
    Go figure, the factless, non-experienced, planar bashing group just made an arival....enjoy :17:

    Right, relaying my own first-hand listening experiences with a Maggie 1.6/Adcom combination, praising them for normal-level acoustic music, and telling somebody to listen to that combination before they buy is "factless, non-experienced, planar bashing." :rolleyes:
  • 03-17-2006, 08:19 AM
    Florian
    Sorry, dont read your replys. I told you that MONTH ago, but i am sure someday you will understand. People are already ignoring your idiotic planar and high end bashing posts. Its a good start to get more people to hunt the musical joy instead of the best buy of the week.
  • 03-17-2006, 08:27 AM
    Mike Anderson
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by RGA
    I agree with Woochifer -- the speakers will heavily compress at what I consider decent volume levels

    In the interests of accuracy, Woochifer said this about the Adcom driving the 1.6s.

    I've never tried driving mine with an Adcom, but with my amp they do very well at high volumes.
  • 03-17-2006, 08:33 AM
    Florian
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Mike Anderson
    In the interests of accuracy, Woochifer said this about the Adcom driving the 1.6s.

    I've never tried driving mine with an Adcom, but with my amp they do very well at high volumes.

    Dont bother Mike, like i said many times before its the idiotic uninformed writing from Wooch RGA and others and their typical bashing of non-box speakers. Your amp has plenty of power and the Adcoms are OK, but not good enough for the Maggies. Bryston is also a bad match, same as McIntosh.

    PS: RGA's Audio Notes will distort at a 5m distance at the max spl of the 1.6 without the room gain, which introduces a whacked frequency responce, time delay errors and unequal room loading. Wooch paradigms are ok, but nowhere close the 1.6 in absolutly no regard exept maybe that they are cuter. You have almost a line source, so much less db drop off over distance.
  • 03-17-2006, 04:04 PM
    bubslewis
    I would not term it "planar bashing". They were very good comments from both Mike and WOOCHIFER as far as helping me with things to watch out for. But although I can't match up to Florian's grad school level knowledge (and equipment) of planar/ribbon speaker technology, I thought his detailed essay on the subject was quite informative.

    OK, enough compliments for the combatants. Let's say I do purchase a pair of 1.6's. And let's say that at some point I notice audible compression at some level of sound that may be in my listening volume range.

    I would look at my ADCOM amp and say "it's you", rather than the speakers. In my limited knowledge of electronics I'm pretty sure that current does not equate with wattage. Theoretically a 50 watt amp could produce a higher current than a 200 watt amp. But I also assume that, in general, the higher the wattage is in an amp the more likely that the current delivery is also higher.

    Most every amplifier lists its wattage output, such as "200 watts into 4 ohms". But I don't see any "current" specifications listed. I'm not even sure there is an applicable unit of measure for current. But that leaves me with trying to figure out what ADCOMS "large capacitors for improved current delivery" means or the fact that Behringer uses "high current toroidal transformers" This doesn't tell me anything in regard to whether the amp will produce enough to satisfy my speakers.

    Seems to me that Mike would be right that a higher power amp like the Behringer EP 1500 amp (2 x 700 watts into 2 ohms) would give me a greater chance for success than my ADCOM 5400. And the Behringer is going for under $300 to boot.
  • 03-17-2006, 04:30 PM
    Geoffcin
    Leaving Florian's planar induced roid rage out of it
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Woochifer
    Right, relaying my own first-hand listening experiences with a Maggie 1.6/Adcom combination, praising them for normal-level acoustic music, and telling somebody to listen to that combination before they buy is "factless, non-experienced, planar bashing." :rolleyes:

    I think the compression you've experienced with these speakers is mostly due to the amp not being able to slew enough current. If you want the 1.6's to go over 100dB then a 200 wpc+ (8 ohms) amp is a better bet. You will get compression (lose linearity) out of them past 105 dB, but that's with a kW or more going into them. At that point they become the worlds loudest radiators (heating).
  • 03-17-2006, 04:49 PM
    Woochifer
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by bubslewis
    I would not term it "planar bashing". They were very good comments from both Mike and WOOCHIFER as far as helping me with things to watch out for. But although I can't match up to Florian's grad school level knowledge (and equipment) of planar/ribbon speaker technology, I thought his detailed essay on the subject was quite informative.

    OK, enough compliments for the combatants. Let's say I do purchase a pair of 1.6's. And let's say that at some point I notice audible compression at some level of sound that may be in my listening volume range.

    I would look at my ADCOM amp and say "it's you", rather than the speakers. In my limited knowledge of electronics I'm pretty sure that current does not equate with wattage. Theoretically a 50 watt amp could produce a higher current than a 200 watt amp. But I also assume that, in general, the higher the wattage is in an amp the more likely that the current delivery is also higher.

    Most every amplifier lists its wattage output, such as "200 watts into 4 ohms". But I don't see any "current" specifications listed. I'm not even sure there is an applicable unit of measure for current. But that leaves me with trying to figure out what ADCOMS "large capacitors for improved current delivery" means or the fact that Behringer uses "high current toroidal transformers" This doesn't tell me anything in regard to whether the amp will produce enough to satisfy my speakers.

    Seems to me that Mike would be right that a higher power amp like the Behringer EP 1500 amp (2 x 700 watts into 2 ohms) would give me a greater chance for success than my ADCOM 5400. And the Behringer is going for under $300 to boot.

    As you've noticed, some people define "bashing" differently than others. Then again, Flo claims not to read my posts anyway. :D

    Ultimately, the proof will be in the listening. Specs can only go so far in projecting how a specific speaker/amp combination will sound. The only way to be certain over any causal effects would be to bring your Adcom amp with you should you decide to do a dealer demo room listening.

    If the 1.6/Adcom combo sounds less than satisfactory at your upper listening range, then you should check with the dealer on any other amps they would pair with the 1.6 and can hook up for you. If a different amp combination gives you more satisfactory results, then you got yourself a dilemma -- is the sound quality of the Maggie 1.6 worth investing in a new amp to go along with the cost of new speakers? Or should you take that combined budget for the 1.6 + new amp, and apply it to a higher priced speaker that might work better with your current amp?

    Since your last foray into speaker auditions was back in 1988, you got some catching up to do. The sound quality of speakers at the lower price points has generally improved a lot since that time. If you enjoyed the more iconoclastic and contrasting "company" approaches that produced the vintage "West Coast," "New England," and "British" sounds, the newer speakers might disappoint you because they tend to sound more similar than before. But, that's because newer speakers (especially in the more affordable price points) generally sound more accurate than they did 20 years ago, and there aren't nearly as many truly bad speakers with gross inaccuracies as before.

    Magneplanars have built a very good reputation, and were the most commonly owned speakers among Stereophile readers in a subscriber poll they did a few years ago. But, you're the only one that can decide whether they're right for you, and that will depend on your preferences, how you intend to use those speakers, and whether they fit with your room/lifestyle.

    Always good to do as many listenings as you can stand, and there's plenty out there to listen to. Just make sure that you try them at home before you decide.
  • 03-17-2006, 04:51 PM
    Geoffcin
    High current amp design = no compression
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by bubslewis
    Seems to me that Mike would be right that a higher power amp like the Behringer EP 1500 amp (2 x 700 watts into 2 ohms) would give me a greater chance for success than my ADCOM 5400. And the Behringer is going for under $300 to boot.

    And not just for planar speakers. Any speaker that presents a load to the amp that falls below the spec where the amp can handle the current will suffer from compression. Many top speaker designs drop to 3 ohms or lower at one point.

    A for instance;

    At this resistance (3 ohms) the same voltage is TWICE the current draw than at 6 ohms. If the amp cannot produce this double amount of current into the 3 ohm load then it will compress the signal. You might hear it as the amp/speakers "lacking bass" or having a lack of punch, but hook the same amp up to a set of speakers with a less demanding load and the amp sounds fine.

    A good way to think about it is that the amp/speakers are a closed system not independant of each other. The best amps usually sound good with mostly all speakers, but some very good ones also need to be matched with the proper speakers.
  • 03-17-2006, 07:40 PM
    Feanor
    All said and done
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Woochifer
    ...
    If the 1.6/Adcom combo sounds less than satisfactory at your upper listening range, then you should check with the dealer on any other amps they would pair with the 1.6 and can hook up for you. If a different amp combination gives you more satisfactory results, then you got yourself a dilemma -- is the sound quality of the Maggie 1.6 worth investing in a new amp to go along with the cost of new speakers? Or should you take that combined budget for the 1.6 + new amp, and apply it to a higher priced speaker that might work better with your current amp?

    .....

    I'd wager that your Adcom has plenty of power for the MG 1.6's in your room at anything but insane volumes.

    But in the unlikely event that it does not, the 1.6's will match well with amps of higher power and higher price. In general I suggest people put more of their $$$ in the speaker than the amp, but that doesn't apply when the speaker is a Maggy. My Bel Canto eVo2i integrated cost $3000 and money was well spent. By the way, if I were looking for a new, powerful amp, I'd check out the Bel Canto e.One S300 power amp. It's an ICEpower-based digital: 300 wt/ch @ 4 ohms, $1400 :yikes: Holy mackerel! See the 6 Moons review here ... http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/eone/s300.html
  • 03-17-2006, 08:49 PM
    bubslewis
    Thank you.
    Looks like I was wrong about most amps not listing "current" specifications. Seems like the low end and moderate ones don't, but the higher end ones do, mostly in amps at a given decible level.

    "Very loud" classical music peaks at about 100 db, averages about 95. Very loud rock peaks at about 105 db. What exactly "loud" means differs from person to person, but I'm guessing that my ADCOM might hold on up to somewhere in the mid 90's, which might be enough for me in that size room.

    Trouble is I just bought the friggin' ADCOM very recently. But I agree with you also that one shouldn't spend more on an amplifier than on the speakers. I'm wondering how to explain it to the wife. "Well dear, I need a better amp than the one I just bought and, by the way, it'll cost at least 3 times as much." We shall see.

    Was looking at the Behringer amps wondering why such powerful amps were so cheap. Looks like they are designed for loud speaker, rock band type applications. Kinda strange that some are using them to power maggies.
  • 03-17-2006, 09:11 PM
    Woochifer
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by bubslewis
    Thank you.
    Looks like I was wrong about most amps not listing "current" specifications. Seems like the low end and moderate ones don't, but the higher end ones do, mostly in amps at a given decible level.

    "Very loud" classical music peaks at about 100 db, averages about 95. Very loud rock peaks at about 105 db. What exactly "loud" means differs from person to person, but I'm guessing that my ADCOM might hold on up to somewhere in the mid 90's, which might be enough for me in that size room.

    Trouble is I just bought the friggin' ADCOM very recently. But I agree with you also that one shouldn't spend more on an amplifier than on the speakers. I'm wondering how to explain it to the wife. "Well dear, I need a better amp than the one I just bought and, by the way, it'll cost at least 3 times as much." We shall see.

    Was looking at the Behringer amps wondering why such powerful amps were so cheap. Looks like they are designed for loud speaker, rock band type applications. Kinda strange that some are using them to power maggies.

    Well, you're just at the start of the process, so no sense in getting jittery or buyer's remorse over your amp until you're sure that the Maggies are the speakers that you want. There are plenty of speakers out there that you haven't heard yet, and it's far from a done deal that you'll like the Maggies the best. Until you actually try your amp with the 1.6, you don't even know if you'll actually need a new one.

    Relax and enjoy the process. You're not supposed to stress out until you start finding stuff that you like and checking the price tags against your credit limit!
  • 03-18-2006, 02:06 AM
    Florian
    A good cost effictive solution is if you build yourself ZAP amps for the bass, (digital, 700wpc) and use a good tube hybrid on the quassi ribbon.

    :6:

    PS: Planars (electrostats, ribbons, planar magnetic etc..) are all VERY sensitive to whats driving them and where they stand. I can give you many great pointers.
  • 03-18-2006, 04:55 AM
    Feanor
    Quit worrying
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by bubslewis
    .
    ...
    "Very loud" classical music peaks at about 100 db, averages about 95. Very loud rock peaks at about 105 db. What exactly "loud" means differs from person to person, but I'm guessing that my ADCOM might hold on up to somewhere in the mid 90's, which might be enough for me in that size room.

    Trouble is I just bought the friggin' ADCOM very recently. But I agree with you also that one shouldn't spend more on an amplifier than on the speakers. I'm wondering how to explain it to the wife. "Well dear, I need a better amp than the one I just bought and, by the way, it'll cost at least 3 times as much." We shall see.

    ....

    Though I respect Wooch very much, I think he is being pessimistic that you will need an amp other than the ADCOM with MG 1.6's anytime soon. If you do get the upgrade urge I'd say it would be for better quality rather more power.

    I do assume you listen at reasonable levels. Frankly I never listen to music at an average level greater than 85 dB; usually it's less than 75 dB. An average level of 95 dB for classical in your living room is ridiculous, IMO.

    For a few weeks I drove Maggies with my Harmon Kardon 330A receiver. That unit was bought around 1972 and puts out maybe 35 watts/ch. The sound was thoroughly enjoyable for 95% of listening.
  • 03-18-2006, 05:17 AM
    Geoffcin
    I agree
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Feanor
    I do assume you listen at reasonable levels. Frankly I never listen to music at an average level greater than 85 dB; usually it's less than 75 dB. An average level of 95 dB for classical in your living room is ridiculous, IMO.

    For a few weeks I drove Maggies with my Harmon Kardon 330A receiver. That unit was bought around 1972 and puts out maybe 35 watts/ch. The sound was thoroughly enjoyable for 95% of listening.

    For max sustained level; 85 dB seems about right to me too. And even this is only when I'm playing a concert DVD. Sure the occasional peak to 95dB is in there, but listening at a 95dB average is auditory suicide.

    Just for giggles I'm going to hook up my 15watt T-amp to the maggies later to see if I can get them to play. As silly as it sounds, this $29.95 amp sounded great hooked up to my big CSW T500 floorstanders.
  • 03-18-2006, 06:44 AM
    cruzin
    I use my Maggies(3.6's,MMGW's and an MMGC) for both music and HT.

    Given the correct amplification,Maggies will rock with the best,and still play sweetly when required.
  • 03-18-2006, 08:48 AM
    bubslewis
    Feanor, Geoffcin
    Thanks, that's the kind of talk I love to hear! Not sure I'm ready (either technically or financially) for Florian style upgrade just yet.

    And Woocihfer, I promise to be as unbiased and neutral as possible. The first place I'm going to carries a pretty good selection of some pretty good brands. I'm willing to bet that I'll hear something as good or better than a Maggie 1.6. But I'm also not afraid to bet that they'll cost more to substantially more than the 1.6.

    Not that I've heard a terrific amount of speakers in my life, but there are only 2 times that I ever remember hearing a speaker that made my heart skip: On my first speaker foray in 1973 when the guy suddenly turned on a large Altec (or Altec Lansing) that absolutely stunned me, and the other was in 1988 when I heard a Magnaplanar. But I promise to maintain an open mind.

    The dealer that I'm going to is only open on Saturday and Sunday. Can't go today or tomorrow, so have to wait til next weekend. Delays, delays, delays #*&^*#!.
  • 03-18-2006, 09:24 AM
    Woochifer
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Feanor
    Though I respect Wooch very much, I think he is being pessimistic that you will need an amp other than the ADCOM with MG 1.6's anytime soon. If you do get the upgrade urge I'd say it would be for better quality rather more power.

    I'm not sure that I would call it pessimistic, just relaying my listening impressions with a very similar combination to the one that he would use. His observations could very well differ from mine. I'm only recommending that he try those speakers with his amp before buying, and I don't think anyone would disagree with that given the comments about how the Maggies respond to the amp combination more so than most conventional speakers.
  • 03-18-2006, 09:42 AM
    Woochifer
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by bubslewis
    And Woocihfer, I promise to be as unbiased and neutral as possible. The first place I'm going to carries a pretty good selection of some pretty good brands. I'm willing to bet that I'll hear something as good or better than a Maggie 1.6. But I'm also not afraid to bet that they'll cost more to substantially more than the 1.6.

    No promises needed, after all those speakers are for your enjoyment! The Maggies will sound different from other speakers, but there are a lot of other contenders out there. A Magnepan dealer should have plenty of alternatives around the same price point for you to consider.

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by bubslewis
    Not that I've heard a terrific amount of speakers in my life, but there are only 2 times that I ever remember hearing a speaker that made my heart skip: On my first speaker foray in 1973 when the guy suddenly turned on a large Altec (or Altec Lansing) that absolutely stunned me, and the other was in 1988 when I heard a Magnaplanar. But I promise to maintain an open mind.

    Well guess what, the big Altec "Voice of the Theater" A7s are available again. These are very different from the Maggies because they are horn-loaded speaker that can be easily driven by low powered amps.

    http://www.alteclansing.com/legacy/story.asp