Giving Magnepan another try

I've had my share of misfortunes with Magnepan speakers, the last one being a completely defective pair. Since they have such a large following, I wanted to give them another try and purchased the least expensive ones: the MMG-Ws. This time I can honestly say: wow! For one thing, I never heard this before, so I have to conclude that the times that I did have other Maggies in my home, things were seriously wrong. In short, for $325, there's nothing that comes close. I know they are the bottom of the line, but for me, they are keepers. However, I do have some questions for those who have more experience with Maggies:

1. The mid-range is great, but the top end is very easy to reach. I'm pretty deaf, but I can easily hear where the speaker ends. Would a super-tweeter help?

2. Are the MC1s that much better? I can see that the top end would be much improved, but the bottom only adds 20Hz. For more than 3x the price, are they worth it?

3. Can I comfortably use a MMG-C in the front with MC1s on the L&R? Or would I then really need to step that up to the CC3 (also at 3x the price)?

4. What are my options for the rear channel(s)? My room is small and these speakers throw a huge sound stage, so two more MMG-Ws in addition to the rears would really be overkill. Would I be able to use a single MMG-C or am I blaspheming with that suggestion?

5. Due to circumstances, the only multi-channel amp I now have available to me is a 125/180W one. Frankly it can't do the job and peters out with loud effects. Someone suggested the Rotel RMB-1076/1077 since it can dip down to 2 ohms. I'm partial to Class-D and have had several so I don't have doubts about the technology, but it's only a 100/200 watt amp. Has anyone used these amps with Maggies and had good results?


I know the higher-end Maggies have substantially greater range, but they are also more expensive, larger, and as I've found out, very heavy too, which makes them a pain to ship. So I really want to stay with the wall hanging speakers. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

No input? Maybe I should have posted this in General Audio....

Hey NF,

I toyed with getting a system of Maggy's a while back. D'm nice sounding speakers IMO.
Do you need to have wall mounting speakers? If not, I'd go with a pair of the MMG or MG12 floor standers. These would serve you well for music as well as HT. IMO getting above 16kHz is a non-issue for the center and surounds. I'd go with a MMG-C and pair of MMG-W. This is what I had planned for quite a while. The cost of a new amp is what had me switch plans. The new Emotiva amps seem to have plenty-o-pep for way lesss than what was available when I was shopping. I'm sure their are others that would be better, but for a price. Then again, if price is no issue, then maybe the MC1's are in order.


MMG 2-way Quasi Ribbon Planar - Magnetic 50-24 kHz 86 dB 4 Ohm 14.5 x 48 x 1.25
MMG W Planar - Magnetic 100-16 kHz 88 dB 5 Ohm 10 x 38 x 1
MMG C Planar - Magnetic 100-16 kHz 88 dB 5 Ohm 36 x 9 x 5.5
MC1 2-way Quasi Ribbon Planar - Magnetic 80-24 kHz 86 dB 4 Ohm 10.25 x 46 x 1
CC3 2-way Quasi Ribbon Planar - Magnetic 80-20 kHz 85 dB 4 Ohm 35 x 10.5 x 8
MG12 2-way Quasi Ribbon Planar - Magnetic 45-22 kHz 86 dB 4 Ohm 17 x 51 x 1.5
MG 1.6 2-way Quasi Ribbon Planar - Magnetic 40-22 kHz 86 dB 4 Ohm 19 x 65 x 2
MG 3.6 3-way True Ribbon Planar - Magnetic 34-40 kHz 85 dB 4 Ohm 24 x 71 x 1.625
MG 20.1 3-way True Ribbon Planar - Magnetic 25-40 kHz 85 dB 4 Ohm 29 x 79 x 2.062

Here is a website which may help you with the differences between models:

http://www.indiespinzone.com/mag/mag14.html

Here are some mods for the MMG's (This one takes a little longer to load):

http://www.indiespinzone.com/magnestand.html


http://www.integracoustics.com/MUG/M...aks/index.html

Congratulations on your purchase. I have never owned, but have been interested in the MMG's. Did you buy them online? (you got a good deal, Magnepan direct wants $550 for them). The only criticism I've heard, and not just this model, is that it has a very narrow "sweet spot", about 2 ft. Is that truth or myth?

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Originally Posted by luvtolisten

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Congratulations on your purchase. I have never owned, but have been interested in the MMG's. Did you buy them online (you got a good deal, Magnepan direct wants $550 for them). The only criticism I've heard, and not just this model, is that it has a very narrow "sweet spot", about 2 ft. Is that truth or myth?

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True.

My experience is very limited but Class-D may not reveal what Maggies are capable of. 3.6R with Naim components sounded very good to my ears, if that means anything to ya.

Good luck with your experience. I'll give panels another try once day, and hope to experience half of your exhilaration.

JRA

Any one try or hear what happens when Maggies are driven by tubes?

I auditioned the Van Alstines FET Valve Hybrid tube amp and preamp in my home with my 1.6's and the bass really came alive. They sounded warm and liquid. Many people use VA tube gear with Magnepans on the VA forum. I'm using a hybrid tube preamp and DAC.

Nightflier, if you can swing it, go for the MG12's. They are much better than the MMG's and approach the 1.6's in sound.

luvtolisten, I actually purchased two off-white colored MMGs for $250 from a local seller, which I think was a great deal. I am now on the lookout for a MMG-C to match these for the front, but was thinking that I might be better off putting the MMG-Ws in the back instead. That way I could use something larger for the fronts.

The MMG-Ws as L&R fronts are very good. Yes, I'm giving up anything above 16 kHz and everything below 100Hz and that's a problem I'm struggling with. As a point of reference, I'm A/Bing them against my Vienna Weberns (also on-walls), and while the Maggies have those shortcomings their mid-range, particularly with voices and chamber music, is astoundingly good if not better.

As far as sweet spot, that can be adjusted by changing the angle on the wall, but yes, w/o a center channel, the sweet spot is really just a few feet. I can even tell when I just move my head to the left and to the right.

jrhymeammo, my experience with Naim is that most of their gear is way under-powered. Somehow I don't think that would be a good match for 3.6's, or does that include a pair of superchargers in between?

Mr.P., I was using a tube preamp (Odyssey Candela) when I tested the Maggies with a class-D amp, and that sounded very good. And I don't even think I heard that combination to its full potential since I had to use XLR-to-RCA adapters. I will also say that this sounded better than the Parasound P7 preamp (which may not be a completely fair assesment since it's having RCA cross-talk problems which could be indicative of other issues). It also sounded considerably better than my Outlaw 970 pre/pro although that one is also having problems, albeit only on the digital inputs, I think.

I should really stick to gear I know works....

____________________

Anyhow, what I've been struggling with is improving the sound in my surround sound room to perhaps in the future get rid of the 2-channel system altogether. I have a large collection of SACDs and I really have not enjoyed their full potential. Also, until these Maggies arrived, I had not found a speaker that I liked more than the Weberns. All my previous attempts with Magnepan were filled with problems, some of them quite costly ones, so I'm now taking things one step at a time.

The MMG-W purchase was more of a whim/impulse buy. They were inexpensive, local (so no shipping), and a heck of a lot smaller than even the MMGs. Size is a big problem for me as I'm working with a small room with lots of stuff in it (and that's not likely to change any time soon). So if I do go for floor-standing Maggies, they'll have to be as narrow as possible. Several people recommended the MG12, but unless I can also mount those to the wall, that's going to be a problem. At 17 inches wide, they are large for me. Hmmm, maybe I can mount them to the wall.....

The other problem I'm trying to deal with is heat & energy consumption. Here in SoCal, that's particularly important, so digital amps are kind of a necessity for me. That little Rotel RMB-1077 is small, light, and runs cool, but I'm worried it won't have the power to drive the Maggies. My current amp, the Outlaw 7125 just doesn't cut it. I had the volume cranked to 80% and it sounded like it wanted to tap out. In contrast, my Spectron amp has no such issues, but it's 2-channel and XLR-only. Ironically, just before I got the Maggies, I had to return a PS Audio multi-channel amp that would have been perfect.

Aaarrrggghhh. Sometimes I think this hobby is making me loose my hair faster than my kids are....

Feanor, thanks for the quick response!
Nightflier, thanks for the correction on the Magnepan model# and info on your experience with them. I'd be interested in your final results and what you decide as a set up. Sorry about your equipment issues, when it rains it pours I guess. I wish I could say "it keeps you young" but like kids, it adds a few years. and gray hairs:)

I'd be interested in knowing what set up gave you the impression Naim is under powered. I've never thought that at all. I've mostly heard separates though and our dealer quit carrying them before the Nait stuff took off. But this is the first time I've heard any one even say this about Naim.

Pairing those small Maggies with a good non-ported sub will give you some really good sound.

Non-ported is the way I now roll: SVS PB12+, baby.

I traded down from a pair of 16-46 cylinders because I needed to downsize - it was very sad day when I shipped those off....

Mr.P., Maybe I only have experience with the lower end of Naim, but everything I've ever had was nearly flea-watt powered and not very sub-4Ohm-friendly. Granted I never powered Maggies with anything Naim, but most full-range speakers I did try were too much for the little Naims. What amp were you suggesting for the job?

Naim had plenty of juice to drive 3.6R so it would work just fine for all Magnepan, maybe except for 20 series.
Unfortunately, I cannot recall the model#, but I can tell you amps were enclosed in those typical slim Naim cases.

I can understand what you hear from Naim, since it never sounded powerful to my ears. It almost sounds a bit lacking to my preference. But Naim with 3.6R did not sound underpowered. I can understand how you think of Naim though.

As everyone repeats, Magnepan loves current. My 2nd Tube integrated sounded fairly sweet for small emsemble music, but as soon as music become more complex at higher volume, the amp stated choking and midrange became lifeless. I'm positive Mr. P's CJ would work better, but they wouldnt be able to keep up with Maggies.

When I told the dealerI had planned on matching 1.6QR with PS Audio Class-D amp, he was extremely concerned. The reason being, he used to carry Rotel's digital amps and most of Maggie owners had returned or expressed dissatisfaction of RMB amps.
For that reason, he had stopped carrying Rotel Class-D amps at his stores.
Just somem for you to consider. Remember, these are his words not mine.

I would give the Emotiva amps a try. They have plenty of power and current. They should do really well with the Maggies. I'm surprised that your Outlaw amp ran out of gas then again, I did shut down my Adcom HTR with 260wpc at 4ohms when playing some complex music very loud one time. But I was driving the 1.6's.

Too bad Elapsed isn't lurking around. I don't know Naim well enough to recommend anything, they just seemed pretty hardy driving Dyn's and their own speakers. Dyns like current but actually their impedance is relatively stable. Maybe Maggies are the real test. Our defunct Maggie dealer used to drive them with Levinson and lesser systems with Adcom.

I think you could get away with some Krell 250 watt monoblocks. I heard them drive the Evidence to concert level SPL and remain crystal clear. :)

I hate to make generalizations but I've heard the claim that class D can't drive difficult loads way more than once. Then again, my Linn drives 5 Dynaudio and hasn't shut down or distorted, well, yet again, I don't know how much difference it makes but Linn calls theirs class V. The Onkyo 9555 got some criticism for not being able to drive difficult loads but I don't see how an amp that good at $400.00 could be criticized at all.

You could try the ARC 150x2 digital amp. It has some weight to it for a digital amp. I wish when I had it to play with I would have tried a different amp to see what difference it would have made in sound. I don't know how it does at low impedance either.

How about a pair of Musical Fidelity's 550K at 750wpc at 4ohms. Audio Advisor has demo's on sale for $1K.

'Flier, I'm going to (once again) recomment a pair of Monarchy SM-70 Pros to drive the MMG. I'm trying to remember who had a pair of these (besides me): was it you? I can't imagine that you'd be disappointed driving the Maggie fronts with these.

But the idea of using Maggies in an M/C setup bothers me. It's indeed true that the Maggies have a narrow sweet spot, so unless you're the only listener I don't seem them working.

One thought is intriging, though, for HT use. For a long time various people recommend diapole speakers for the surround speakers. This is exactly what the Maggies are of course. A pair of smaller Maggies sitting either side of the listener, edge-on, might just work quite well. However this is not the recommend set up for SACD where all speakers are supposed to be directed at the listener.

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Originally Posted by Feanor

'Flier, I'm going to (once again) recomment a pair of Monarchy SM-70 Pros to drive the MMG.

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Those are probably some sweet sounding amps. Simple topography, well built with a big power supply designed to drive challenging loads. For me, that's a formula for success. Those first few watts really make the biggest difference. They are also "passive friendly" with their 1 volt sensitivity and 100k input impedance.

rw

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Originally Posted by E-Stat

Those are probably some sweet sounding amps. Simple topography, well built with a big power supply designed to drive challenging loads. For me, that's a formula for success. Those first few watts really make the biggest difference. They are also "passive friendly" with their 1 volt sensitivity and 100k input impedance.

rw

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All true. The SM-70 Pro is a high bias, zero global feedback design, with 60,000 uF per side. For quite a while I drove them with an Adcom GFP750 in passive mode by way of 6' XLF cables; that work flawlessly.

Feanor, what do you think of the GFP-750? I have a chance to get one cheap. I know it's Adcom's best ever preamp especially in passive mode. I run long cables from my preamp (20Ft) would that be an issue in passive mode?

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Originally Posted by Mr Peabody

Any one try or hear what happens when Maggies are driven by tubes?

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I used to use an ARC SP-3AMKII and ARC D-51 power amp with the first planars I ever bought. They made those MG-1's sound damn good! Of course more power would have been better. Within the power limits the sound was wonderful.

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Originally Posted by JoeE SP9

Feanor, what do you think of the GFP-750? I have a chance to get one cheap. I know it's Adcom's best ever preamp especially in passive mode. I run long cables from my preamp (20Ft) would that be an issue in passive mode?

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Pretty decent in passive mode. I find active mode just a bit sharp, solid statish if you will.

From what I know, you can tolerate a longer run if you're source has a relatively low output impedance and your target has a high input impedance. I've heard it said that the latter ought to be at least 10x former, but that 100x is better. A higher number permits longer runs I presume.

Love the Maggies. BUT they love lots of POWER. 200W @4ohms minumum! thats the key. I am in the process of upgrading to the MC-12 or 1.6R. I am looking at the odyssey or parasound 5250 amp. probably in the 250W -300W. A nice HSU sub or sunfire sub helps as well!

The 750 may be Adcom's best but I'd be surprised if you found it better than the SP9.

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Originally Posted by Feanor

'Flier, I'm going to (once again) recomment a pair of Monarchy SM-70 Pros to drive the MMG. I'm trying to remember who had a pair of these (besides me): was it you? I can't imagine that you'd be disappointed driving the Maggie fronts with these.

But the idea of using Maggies in an M/C setup bothers me. It's indeed true that the Maggies have a narrow sweet spot, so unless you're the only listener I don't seem them working.

One thought is intriging, though, for HT use. For a long time various people recommend diapole speakers for the surround speakers. This is exactly what the Maggies are of course. A pair of smaller Maggies sitting either side of the listener, edge-on, might just work quite well. However this is not the recommend set up for SACD where all speakers are supposed to be directed at the listener.

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I had the SM70 Pros for a few months but I sold them for two reasons: they run extremely hot (I used them extensively, especially trying to hammer out the issues with the MMGs). But heat is a big issue for me because I'm working with a smallish room and have three full systems set up in it (yes, I know, that doesn't make me very popular with the wife). The other reason was that they are unwieldy. They are too large to fit on one shelf and I dropped one and bent the back fin, not to mention that I broke the tip of my finger in the process - the kind of pain that will buckle your knees, trust me. Yes, I know they sounded wonderful but that was the last straw; I would have shot-putted that brick out the window if I wasn't so busy cursing.... Anyhow, you would think that Monarchy could have at least put handles on the back or made them 1" narrower and a 1" taller (which, if my math is correct, would still have given the fins more surface area, btw). I should also mention that my $600 Spectron amp still ate them for lunch. So they're gone & good riddance. No offense meant, Feanor, but when your gear injures you, that may be a sign to move on to something else.

On a more positive note, a friend of mine put me in touch with a guy in Arizona who's also into digital amps (for the same reasons I am, imagine that). Anyhow, he's going to send me an RMB-1077 in exchange for my PS Audio HCA-2. It's just a loan, but we'll see what's what when it arrives. Jrhymeammo, your dealer's comments are not reassuring. Hopefully he's just referring to the Rotel amps paired with larger Maggies. If I have to, I'll just power the center and rears with a Rotel and use the Spectron for the L&R. I know for a fact that it has no issues driving anything, although to be frank, I haven't really driven a working pair of Maggies with it. John Ulrick said that digital will work fine, although he also said that not all class-d amps are created equal, of course. I will be doing some tests with the Spectron and the MMG-Ws this weekend so I'll know more on Monday.

Funny story. Someone emailed and asked why I would want to "downgrade" from my Viennas to the "gimmicky" Maggies. He had other negative things to say about Maggies, so I figured he's probably had a bad pair, too, and I kind of felt obligated to correct a few assumptions, some of which I once shared. He's local, so I invited him over for a listen. He emailed back and said he didn't want to be tricked into believing something that wasn't real and said only hearing something on his own system would make him believe anything. I asked him what kind of amp he has and he said a Threshold T800 driving Vandersteen speakers. I looked it up: the amp can do 200/400W. I said no problem, I'll bring over the Maggies and we'll have a listen. Then he emailed back and said he didn't want to be tricked into upgrading anything. Maybe I was a little too forward in inviting myself over, but you gota wonder about some people....

Long-story short, yes, if the amps can handle it, I'm replacing the Viennas with Maggies. I don't have a clear thought on the L&R yet. I may start with the MC1s and if that doesn't do it, I'll move on up starting with the MG12's. I have about $3K to spend, but that also is for a new pre (probably the McCormack MAP-1). If the Rotel can't handle even the MMG-Ws, then I'm going to try something used from Spectron, PS Audio or possibly NuForce's MC amp. Unfortunately, there really aren't many other options out there for Class-D.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by nightflier

I had the SM70 Pros for a few months but I sold them for two reasons: they run extremely hot (I used them extensively, especially trying to hammer out the issues with the MMGs). ... I dropped one and bent the back fin, not to mention that I broke the tip of my finger in the process - the kind of pain that will buckle your knees, trust me. ... I should also mention that my $600 Spectron amp still ate them for lunch. So they're gone & good riddance. No offense meant, Feanor, but when your gear injures you, that may be a sign to move on to something else.

...

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No offense taken!!

I'm reminded now of your ealier comments. The Spectron is a class D amp I'd really like to hear myself. By consensus of TAS pundits a year or so ago, it was the best class D. At $600 you got a mind-numbing deal even for an older model -- you shouldn't imply that this somehow relates to the current price: the Muscian III Mk2 retails for $7200.

My Monarchys run warm but not hot driving my MG 1.6. Hummm ... since your room is not large, I surmise that you listen a lot louder than I do. The current Spectron puts out 800 wpc into 4 ohms which would tend to favor it at higher levels of over the 120 wpc Monarchy.

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Originally Posted by Mr Peabody

The 750 may be Adcom's best but I'd be surprised if you found it better than the SP9.

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I've been told that in passive mode the Adcom is up there with the best. I've got a chance to get one cheap. The only replacement for my SP-9 would be a better ARC Maybe an SP-10 or 11.

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Originally Posted by JoeE SP9

I've been told that in passive mode the Adcom is up there with the best. I've got a chance to get one cheap. The only replacement for my SP-9 would be a better ARC Maybe an SP-10 or 11.

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For high level sources, ever tried a set of attenuators instead? Don't get me wrong, I really like my SP-9MKIII - but its not perfect. For the CD source, I don't use it at all. My DIY attenuator box has higher resolution and better separation (see the Stereophile test) resulting in a wider soundstage. I stumbled upon that discovery years ago when I built an inexpensive attenuator box for the office system. Just for grins, I put it in the main system. I was floored when I heard the $18 Radio Shack attenuator box (at half the price of one ARC knob) easily better the SP-9 for the CD source. On the other hand, the 9 works great for vinyl where the gain is needed and the separation issue is largely limited by the cartridge anyway. I later built a higher quality unit using DACT stepped attenuators, JPS Labs wire and Cardas connectors in a Par-Metal aluminum case that looks like a Levinson JC-2. It means I have to change cables when switching sources, but I think that is well worth the effort.

Similarly, I don't use a line stage in the vintage garage system either. The Pioneer tuner, Bellari phono preamp and Manley DAC each have gain controls and drive the amp directly.

rw

Uh..., E-stat, where's the remote? :)

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Originally Posted by Mr Peabody

Uh..., E-stat, where's the remote? :)

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Remote? We don't need no steenkin' remote in the man caves! Those are only found in the HT in the den for wifey! :)

rw

Quote:

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Originally Posted by E-Stat

For high level sources, ever tried a set of attenuators instead? Don't get me wrong, I really like my SP-9MKIII - but its not perfect. For the CD source, I don't use it at all. My DIY attenuator box has higher resolution and better separation (see the Stereophile test) resulting in a wider soundstage. I stumbled upon that discovery years ago when I built an inexpensive attenuator box for the office system. Just for grins, I put it in the main system. I was floored when I heard the $18 Radio Shack attenuator box (at half the price of one ARC knob) easily better the SP-9 for the CD source. On the other hand, the 9 works great for vinyl where the gain is needed and the separation issue is largely limited by the cartridge anyway. I later built a higher quality unit using DACT stepped attenuators, JPS Labs wire and Cardas connectors in a Par-Metal aluminum case that looks like a Levinson JC-2. It means I have to change cables when switching sources, but I think that is well worth the effort.

Similarly, I don't use a line stage in the vintage garage system either. The Pioneer tuner, Bellari phono preamp and Manley DAC each have gain controls and drive the amp directly.

rw

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From time to time I've thought about building a passive attenuator using a Shallcross ladder attenuator. What has stopped me is that I use long cables (20Ft) from my preamp to my power amps. Spending close to $500 for a something only to find that it's unusable is something I'd rather not do. Does anyone have any input on long cables and passive attenuators? How about long cables and transformer attenuators? I hear some think transformer attenuators are better than switched.
However, I'm open to almost anything. The Par-Metal case sounds interesting. I checked the web site. My interest is piqued. Where can I get some really nice knobs? I would need some holes drilled. Does Par-Metal do that?
Maybe it's time to build my own ultimate passive preamp. My financial situation is loosening up and I'll shortly have a great deal more discretionary income than I've had recently. I'm a vinyl junkie. What funding I've had went to new vinyl. A few CD's managed to sneak in there also.
No! I'll not be going to Goodwins for the Apogee Mini Grands they have right now. I will be on the lookout for a pair of Studio Grands.

JoeE don't need a remote, he has his preamp in his lap... :) I'd like to try an Adcom 750 with my 5500 amp. I heard one once in a store and compared to the 450 preamp couldn't tell much difference. But the sales person didn't mention it having passive and active, nor did he say which was on. All I knew is I wasn't going to pay the difference in cost for no noticeable improvement. With those who have had the 750 claim it's good, I've always wanted to try one again to see if that first impression was correct or the demo was some how skewed.

I've gotten used to having no remote for my preamp. It's only 2 steps away. Besides, I need the exercise.:D
The 750 is a John Curl Design. Maybe an extended audition would be in order. It has a remote. So, I would get even less exercise.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JoeE SP9

What has stopped me is that I use long cables (20Ft) from my preamp to my power amps. Spending close to $500 for a something only to find that it's unusable is something I'd rather not do.

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Agreed. If you have basic soldering skills, you can make one for under twenty bucks. I can even provide detailed instructions since an inmate over at AA had asked me to do that years ago. Here's what it looks like:

http://home.cablelynx.com/~rhw/audio/se1.jpg

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Originally Posted by JoeE SP9

Does anyone have any input on long cables and passive attenuators? How about long cables and transformer attenuators? I hear some think transformer attenuators are better than switched.

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Total capacitance is the rub with attenuators which requires short and/or very low cap cables. I use 2 meter runs of JPS Labs Superconductor+ which has a total of 160uF. Twenty feet of Bluejeans Cable LC-1 only runs 244 uF. Using a DACT supplied spreadsheet calculator, there shouldn't be any audible HF rolloff with that.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JoeE SP9

The Par-Metal case sounds interesting. I checked the web site. My interest is piqued. Where can I get some really nice knobs? I would need some holes drilled. Does Par-Metal do that?

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I used some ARC knobs. I'm sure Par-Metals would drill the holes for you, but it really wasn't a big deal. Here is the updated version:

http://home.cablelynx.com/~rhw/audio/se2.jpg

rw

Thanks for the info E-Stat. I don't think there will be any problem with soldering. I applied the POOGE treatment to my Haflers years ago and my MK-III's have only the transformers in common with their namesakes. All the work was done by yours truly.

Do you have any experience with using transformers as attenuators?

Some generic opinions:

Passive pre amps are very impedance sensitive, mine is driven by a Mark Levinson 360S. Mark Levinson claims an output impedance of 6 Ohms, so I designed my passive to average 3 KOhms instead of the usual 10K.

I also audition only low capacitance cables (currently running Cardas Golden Presence).

According to a very long discussion on the John Curl blowtorch DIY thread, a switched passive is much better than variable POT attenuator until you spend hundred$ for POTS.

The Placette gets good reviews, uses first class parts and with the remote allows the pre to power amp cable to be arbitrarily short.

I've never heard them, but transformer passives should do well with long cables. They have other issues making it all but impossible to make them inexpensive.

Maggies and other planar speakers seem to do best with very low amplifier source impedance (no built in dynamic damping in the driver cones?) So, either very high power tube or reasonable power solid state. Most solid state switching amps have high damping factors, maybe even higher than equivalent power conventional transistor amps. So planar bass will sound quite good with a competent switcher

Hermanv, thanks for bringing this thread back to the original topic: Magnepans.

I have mixed feelings on the Maggies. In general I like planar, but they need room.

Maggies are reportedly more sensitive to speaker cables than most speakers and are placement critical.

A little research on the web and you will find a number of crossover component DIY upgrades, especially the film capacitors. There is broad agreement that the upgrade is a good idea.

There is also broad agreement that they like power, I suspect the damping factor I mentioned in my previous post.

When upgraded, driven by the right electronics and correctly placed in a room, they are supposed to be one of the all time bargains in sound versus cost.

Well the Rotel RMB-1077 is on its way. Should be here in a few days. Very curious to hear how it handles the MMG-Ws.

So far the absolute best combination I have tried is the Plinius CD-LAD paired with the Spectron amp. Even my PS Audio amps can't quite match that. And I'm just working with the MMG-Ws at a measly 100-16K Hz. and a sub (which by the way is a pain to integrate properly - 'been fiddling with it all weekend). So far these are my observations:

- I really would need two subs. One for deep bass and another for filling in the bass between 30Hz and 100 Hz. I'm going to talk to Hsu about their mid-bass module (http://www.hsuresearch.com/products/mbm-12.html) which is supposed to do just that. Of course at $500, that's a steep price to pay for what is essentially a weaker sub. It's also going to be a chore getting both subs integrated properly, but maybe with that price tag, Hsu will be able to offer up some assistance. They are also local, so I can just drive up the freeway and bug them with my questions.

- A better pre-pro is in order. I've been a fan-boy for Outlaw since they came out with the ICBM, but I'm really concerned that they are a bit over their heads in this area. I have a line on a used but pristine McCormack MAP-1 for $1200. It's local (well sort of) and with all the positive reviews it's been getting, that may just be the ticket. I know Outlaw and Emotiva will beat the MAP-1 on features & price, but I really am hoping for some noticeable improvement in sound when I audition it.

- While I know that the sweet spot is small with the Maggies, I'm now really curious to see what it would be like with a center channel. I tried the MMG-Ws with my current center channel (not Magnepan), and while the sound was noticeably different, the dispersion allowed me to sit pretty far off center w/o too much loss. I imagine that Magnepan's MMG-C, with its curved panel would be equally good (and of course, mesh much better with the L&R.

- Heat dissipation is still a huge issue. This weekend the temperatures were way up and sitting in my man-cave in the afternoon was a sticky endeavor. The pre/pro is a little toaster, the SS amp equally so, and even the DVD player is too warm to touch (I'm temporarily using one of those trendy super-thin players, the HK DVD-48 - what a piece of sh..). Anyhow, that brings up another question. My current choice for a BR player is the Oppo BDP-83. Does anyone know if that sucker runs very hot? I don't suppose anyone has a McCormack MAP-1 out there they can tell me about?

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hermanv, the MMG series have captive speaker wire, so changing that out is probably not an option. If I do spring for a larger pair, I'll definitely explore that. I'd be very curious to hear how something like the Mapleshade wire would do compared to my garden-hose-sized wire - that's still something I'm interested in trying out. Upgrading cross-overs is probably outside my comfort level, especially on the more expensive speakers - I would hate to screw that up.