Syria's firing on US helicopters.

[piece-it pete]

Hello everyone!

Just a quick note that WSJ reported today that Syrias' border guards are shooting at us over the border.

Some may not believe it but I'm not a jingoist - however, our boys should be able to take out anyone trying to kill them.

So what should we do?

Pete

[Justlisten2]

That's an easy one. They would be hard for the Syrians to shoot and hit if they were back home in the good old US of A where they belong. Dubya even seems to think the whole WMD thing is a big joke now. Why are we still there? Why were we there in the first place? I know Afghanistan was in retailiation for the WTC. The whole Iraq thing was just a Bush personal vendetta.

Pack 'em up and bring 'em home. Let's strengthen our borders and LISTEN to our intelligence reports. Maybe if we leave them alone they'll leave us alone.

BTW, Channel 6 News reported that it was the Bush Administration secret ops shooting from Syria. Just trying to stir the American public up again and distract them from the economy and the lack of WMD. Unite us once again in the fight on terrorism...hehe. That's Bushs' whole campaign, fight terrorists. Forget about the economy, education, enviornment and all that crapola, there's commie b@stards out there men!!! What a freaking joke!

[mtrycraft]

Hello everyone!

Just a quick note that WSJ reported today that Syrias' border guards are shooting at us over the border.

Some may not believe it but I'm not a jingoist - however, our boys should be able to take out anyone trying to kill them.

So what should we do?

Pete

Take them out by a massive air strike.

[bturk667]

How many war fronts do you think we could fight at one time?

[karl k]

Hello everyone!

Just a quick note that WSJ reported today that Syrias' border guards are shooting at us over the border.

Some may not believe it but I'm not a jingoist - however, our boys should be able to take out anyone trying to kill them.

So what should we do?

Pete

action would be prudent. I wonder how large a bomb would have to be used from the Iraqi side to physically affect the boarder guards on the Syrian side?

Something to think about.

[piece-it pete]

It turns out that it MAY be Syrian border guard, regardless, we'll have to take them out.

I have a hard time believing they're CIA agents.

Roosevelt learned a long time ago (actually, he knew already when he was campaigning on a peace platform: see lend/lease) that we can not live in peace, alone. The "personal vendetta" has already netted us a thorough treasure trove of nuclear arms trade secrets, as well as proving to the Arabs that we are not the "great satan". Libya is now clean. And we're shooting terrorists in Iraq instead of NY NY. History has shown that isolationism is never the answer.

Bombing, now THAT'S a language these people understand!! And Bruno, we fought - and won - wars (not the minor battles we're involved with now) in the Pacific and Europe, against modern, wealthy, powerful empires, at the same time. Not that anyone wants to do it again, but if necessary, we will do so. These people will not, ever, tell me what I can and cannot do, unless they're yelling at a corpse . BTW, I also don't approve of them blowing up (or knocking down) our buildings, either.

Perhaps if we simply shoot when shot at (meaning if someone shoots at us take out the 2 mile radius around him), regardless of borders, it'll go away. I doubt Syria wants a piece of us!!!

Pete

[bturk667]

Do really think a war with Syria would be a smart thing to do?

[mtrycraft]

Do really think a war with Syria would be a smart thing to do?

Smart? Probably not. Run again? We need to try and remember history
Only when provoked enough. And, some retaliation may not cause war but stop it.

[Justlisten2]

Do really think a war with Syria would be a smart thing to do?

Smart maybe for political reasons.

The truely smart thing to do would be to bring the troops home, but then we would not be 'banded together' in this war on terrorism, and might notice that the current administration is not doing right by us. The current administrations job is to blind us with hatred of others, so we 'pay no attention to the man behind the curtain'.

[mtrycraft]

Do really think a war with Syria would be a smart thing to do?

Smart maybe for political reasons.

The truely smart thing to do would be to bring the troops home, but then we would not be 'banded together' in this war on terrorism, and might notice that the current administration is not doing right by us. The current administrations job is to blind us with hatred of others, so we 'pay no attention to the man behind the curtain'.

Unfortunately it is too late to bring the troops home before the mission is complete. That would certainly signal a lack of resolve and a willingness to finish a job we started, wightly or wrongly. We fled Beirut, we left Somaila, and so many other places.

[jeskibuff]

The truely smart thing to do would be to bring the troops home

Pardon my opposition to your statement, but that would clearly be the STUPIDEST thing to do. Undertaking to liberate a country from 30 years of brutal dictatorship is NOT an overnight task. The majority of Iraqis want freedom and NO MORE BRUTALITY. The minority are insurgents and Saddam loyalists (Ba'ath party, Fedayeen, etc.) Unfortunately, the minority are the ones we hear about because THEY'RE THE ONES shooting at us! If we cut and run, we'll let these barbarians regain control of Iraq and turn it into an Islamic state that will mimic Afghanistan, pre-October, 2001. That means oppression of the people and the welcome mat extended for terrorist groups like Al-Qaeda. If we finish the job we set out to do, the PEACE-LOVING Iraqis will have the power to govern their country in an equitable manner to ALL citizens. Your method is guaranteed to be good for the U.S. in the short term, but bad in the long term. Finishing what we set out to do requires sacrifice in the short term, but offers a much more positive outlook for the future.

then we would not be 'banded together' in this war on terrorism, and might notice that the current administration is not doing right by us.

Or more likely, terrorists would regain a foothold and we'd have many more 9/11s. In my opinion and that of many more Americans, this administration has got the BEST interests of this country at heart!

The current administrations job is to blind us with hatred of others, so we 'pay no attention to the man behind the curtain'.

What a simpleminded analysis! Bush has made it clear that this war is NOT about hating others, regardless of their race or religion, but it is about defending the rights of people to live in freedom, safe from people who clearly are intent on destroying us.

[Justlisten2]

...to take Dubya's word for it. Well, I reckon if the president of these here United States says we have to be over there, in other peoples business, it must be so....hehe

Good to see there are so many sheep left.

Mtrycrafts, what mission? When will it ever be complete? Probably not until we give Israel back to those it belonged to. If someone came in the US and gave our land to China, I'm sure there would be fighting by 'patriots' to regain our land. The difference between a patriot and a terrorist is in the eye of the beholder. We were the terrorists in the Revolutionary war. We didn't fight the British according to the rules of engagement of that era. We hide and ambushed, dirty warfare at the time. Our history books don't recognize our patriot heros as terrorists, any more than the Arabs view their patriots as terrorists.

Patriot? Terrorists? It's all just a matter of perception. There is no absolute right and wrong.

[jeskibuff]

...to take Dubya's word for it. Well, I reckon if the president of these here United States says we have to be over there, in other peoples business, it must be so....hehe

Good to see there are so many sheep left.

You've GOT to be kidding!

Is THAT your response???

Is THAT the best you can do??

Why can't you tell me why my analysis is WRONG and yours is right?? Why can't you defend your position with a logical rationale??

Don't you have ANY clue??

And you want to believe that I'm the "sheep", unable to think for myself???

Can you say "baaaaahh"???

what mission? When will it ever be complete? Probably not until we give Israel back to those it belonged to.

Sorry, but hope as you may, terrorists will not be satisfied even if all the Jews were driven into the sea and the Palestinians took over the whole of Israel. That war is NOT about land, but as long as people like you insist that it is, there will never be any progress towards peace in the region.

If someone came in the US and gave our land to China, I'm sure there would be fighting by 'patriots' to regain our land.

This is a woefully inadequate attempt to try to describe the Palestinian/Israeli situation. If you think your China/U.S. comparison even comes close, it's totally understandable why your whole analysis is so far off the mark.

Patriot? Terrorists? It's all just a matter of perception.

Nope, again. A patriot fights for a worthy cause. A terrorist targets innocent people. This should be an easy difference to see. I don't know why it's so difficult for liberals to make the distinction.

[Justlisten2]

...the distinction??? ROTFLMAO!!! I'll never understand why conservatives get so unhappy unless everyone sees it from their POV. People are different, accept it and move on. Your view of a hero is different from someone else's view of a hero. Neither one is accurate, except in one's mind. How intolerant of you to think the whole world must follow your thinking. Did you ever notice that Switzerland does not get terrorized? They don't walk around flexing their muscles and trying to tell others how to live. When you presume to be the authority figure for the world, you have to understand that it is human nature for some to obey authority, but there will also always be those who fight authority.

We have no more business in the middel east. Where is Bin Laden? He doesn't appear to pose anymore of a theat. So the Robin Williams peace plan looks good to me.

THE ROBIN WILLIAMS PEACE PLAN

This may very well be the best thought out item we have read since 9/11/01.
Leave it to Robin Williams to come up with the perfect plan ... what we need now is for our UN Ambassador to stand up and repeat this message.

I see a lot of people yelling for peace but I have not heard of a plan for peace. So, here's one plan.

1. The US will apologize to the world for our "interference" in their affairs, past & present. You know, Hitler, Mussolini, Tojo, Noriega, Milosovich and the rest of those good ol' boys: We will never "interfere" again.

2. We will withdraw our troops from all over the world, starting with Germany, South Korea and the Philippines. They don't want us there. We would station troops at our borders. No one sneaking through holes in the fence.

3. All illegal aliens have 90 days to get their affairs together and leave. We'll give them a free trip home. After 90 days the remainder will be gathered up and deported immediately, regardless of who or where they are. France would welcome them.


4. All future visitors will be thoroughly checked and limited to 90 days unless given a special permit. No one from a terrorist nation would be allowed in. If you don't like it there, change it yourself and don't hide here. Asylum would never be available to anyone. We don't need any more cab drivers or 7-11 cashiers.

5. No "students" over age 21. The older ones are the bombers. If they don't attend classes, they get a "D" (for "deport") and it's back home baby.

6. The US will make a strong effort to become self-sufficient energy wise. This will include developing nonpolluting sources of energy but will require a temporary drilling of oil in the Alaskan wilderness. The caribou will have to cope for a while.

7. Offer Saudi Arabia and other oil producing countries $10 a barrel for their oil. If they don't like it, we go some place else. They can go somewhere else to sell their production. (About a week of the wells filling up the storage sites would be enough.)

8. If there is a famine or other natural catastrophe in the world, we will not "interfere," They can pray to Allah or whomever for seeds, rain, cement or whatever they need. Besides, most of what we give them is stolen or given to the Army. The people who need it most get very little, if anything.

9. Ship the UN Headquarters to an isolated island some place. We don't need the spies and fair weather friends here. Besides, the building would make a good homeless shelter or lockup for illegal aliens.

10. All Americans must go to charm and beauty school. That way no one can call us "Ugly Americans" any longer. The language we speak is ENGLISH.....learn it...or LEAVE...

Now, ain't that a winner of a plan.
The Statue of Liberty is no longer saying "Give me your poor, your tired, your huddled masses." She's got a baseball bat and she's yelling, "You want a piece of me?"



We don't need another Vietnam. I know that Defense is our biggest industry, but why? Why is it our job to police the world and tell everyone how to live? Where are all you Republicans now when we talk about big government? I know how we can cut taxes, military cuts. If Dubya is really looking for WMD, he doesn't have to look overseas, we have plenty right here in the good ole US of A. Half the time we're fighting battles against our own weapons. We arm Iraq so they can fight Iran (in the 70's when the Ayatollah was evil), then Iraq is our enemy. We arm Afghanistan (in the 80's when USSR was our enemy), then Afghanistan is our enemy. Now we're paying Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, Turkey and Syria to be our allies. Are we really naive enough to think that this won't come back and bite us in the ass? It's a never ending cycle fueled by the biggest business in the USA, the military. Whether it's Iraq, Afghanistan, Grenada, Somolia, Vietnam, Korea or wherever, the defense department needs to justify their budget, just like any big corporation. It's the governments job to 'spin' the situation so their largest business has the support of the American people. That way the big business can constantly test their latest toys and give their new employees live training. It's good for business.

That's just my opinion and I do realize that others think differently, and that's okay with me. You are entitled to your opinion, just don't trick yourself into beleiving that an opinion is fact. Mtrycrafts tought me that.

Gotta run, time to make the donuts.

[jeskibuff]

I'll never understand why conservatives get so unhappy unless everyone sees it from their POV.

It's one thing to be stupid. It's another thing to want to get such people elected to public office to "lead" our nation. You have the privilege to be as stupid as you want to be in this country. Just don't try to make everyone adopt your stupid ideas. THEN, your stupidity affects others besides just you.

People are different, accept it and move on.Your view of a hero is different from someone else's view of a hero. Neither one is accurate, except in one's mind.

I have no problem with your first two statements. The third one is way off the map. One view may be based on diligent analysis. The other view may be based on "feelings".

Did you ever notice that Switzerland does not get terrorized?

Is that the basis for making decisions? Don't take a stand...let everyone else duke it out? That strategy works ONLY if others do the dirty work for you. If Allied forces hadn't intervened, Switzerland would have been taken over by Hitler. So...if the U.S. does the same thing...remains neutral and let other people fight...WHO is going to confront the evil that is out there? No one, eh? Your strategy of neutrality would just allow evil to fester, and with no one to check its progress, it will grow stronger until you no longer can subdue it.

They don't walk around flexing their muscles and trying to tell others how to live.

That's because they don't find the need to. It's like Canada. They don't have a large military. Why should they? They've got someone else to their south who is footing the bill for security and they get a free ride out of it.

When you presume to be the authority figure for the world, you have to understand that it is human nature for some to obey authority, but there will also always be those who fight authority.

So, you're saying there should be no one that holds a standard to adhere to? "It's okay to blow up buildings fill of civilians...who are WE to say it's wrong??"

We have no more business in the middel east.

We have PLENTY of business in the Middle East. 9/11 was the calling card. You build a network that attacks us, we have every right to dismantle your network. There's plenty of that network left in Iraq, Syria, Israel's occupied territories and elsewhere. Some of those countries APPEAR to be helping to take care of the problem (Libya, Saudi Arabia, etc.). We'll see where that goes.

Where is Bin Laden? He doesn't appear to pose anymore of a theat.

Says who?? Have you talked to him lately? Has he renounced his terrorist ways? Will we see you with film footage of him on "60 Minutes"??

the Robin Williams peace plan looks good to me.

It's got some good thoughts in it...nothing earthshakingly brilliant and some (IMO) not so hot ideas.

1. The US will apologize to the world for our "interference" in their affairs, past & present. You know, Hitler, Mussolini, Tojo, Noriega, Milosovich and the rest of those good ol' boys: We will never "interfere" again.

A nice bit of sarcasm there. Ties in nicely with my response concerning Switzerland, doesn't it?

2. We will withdraw our troops from all over the world, starting with Germany, South Korea and the Philippines. They don't want us there.

I thought about this when I saw a story about some S.Koreans wanting the U.S. to leave. Mostly young and stupid S.Koreans who didn't understand their own history. Watch as they wail, whine and die as North Korea overruns their country, steals their wealth and takes away their freedoms. The stupid S.Koreans would get what they asked for, but unfortunately the more intelligent South Koreans would also be victims of that outcome. Plus, the power that North Korea would gain from the "wealth transfusion" would make them even more of a potential threat to the free world, including YOU and me!

7. Offer Saudi Arabia and other oil producing countries $10 a barrel for their oil. If they don't like it, we go some place else.

The problem with this plan is encapsulated in a one word question: WHERE??

9. Ship the UN Headquarters to an isolated island some place. We don't need the spies and fair weather friends here. Besides, the building would make a good homeless shelter or lockup for illegal aliens.

It's nice to see that not all movie stars are total idiots.

I know how we can cut taxes, military cuts.

Great idea. We cut the military and allow terrorism to bring our economy to its knees. At least we'd have lower taxes for a LITTLE while!

If Dubya is really looking for WMD, he doesn't have to look overseas, we have plenty right here in the good ole US of A.

Yes, and we keep them as a deterrent. We don't go haphazardly blowing up innocent people with them. WMD in the hands of terrorists would mean millions of innocent people dying. Is that so hard to understand??

Half the time we're fighting battles against our own weapons. We arm Iraq so they can fight Iran (in the 70's when the Ayatollah was evil), then Iraq is our enemy. We arm Afghanistan (in the 80's when USSR was our enemy), then Afghanistan is our enemy. Now we're paying Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, Turkey and Syria to be our allies. Are we really naive enough to think that this won't come back and bite us in the ass?

Well, everyone makes mistakes. Israel did the same thing, giving weapons to the Palestinians thinking they would be used to provide Palestinian police with the means to combat terrorists. The Palestinians just used the guns on Israelis. Hopefully, we have learned over the years the nature of radical Islam.

It's the governments job to 'spin' the situation so their largest business has the support of the American people. That way the big business can constantly test their latest toys and give their new employees live training. It's good for business.

Or more likely, it's a way to try to contain the outbreaks of war that have been going on for centuries.

[Justlisten2]

It's one thing to be stupid. It's another thing to want to get such people elected to public office to "lead" our nation. You have the privilege to be as stupid as you want to be in this country. Just don't try to make everyone adopt your stupid ideas. THEN, your stupidity affects others besides just you.

It's a b!tch having your country led by a stupid semi-elected official. I knew you'd come around. FWIW, you shouldn't overuse the word 'stupid', it kind of reflects poorly on you.

[JSE]

It's a b!tch having your country led by a stupid semi-elected official.

And that's were your credibility ends.

JSE

[Justlisten2]

And that's were your credibility ends.

JSE

Well, at least it looks like I had some credibility at one time then, as opposed to you.

[jeskibuff]

Well, at least it looks like I had some credibility at one time then, as opposed to you.

I guess this is the internet equivalent of saying "I know you are, but what am I?"

I also guess that it means that you agree with every one of my rebuttals to your points. Either that, or you don't want to agree but you've run out of ammo and find your position defenseless.

Dislike Bush all you want. Hate him all you want. Accuse him of being totally stupid. By all logical conclusions, he is doing the right things for this country, but that doesn't matter to people so consumed by their hatred.

A little while ago we heard "The tax cuts will never work. Bush is leading the country down the wrong road"

We said: "Give it some time. It just takes time to turn this ship around. It's like piloting an oil tanker. They don't turn on a dime."

You had to scramble for another tactic when the economy started to turn around.

Then you said: "This is a jobless recovery. The economy isn't based only on the recovering stock market", hoping to win the sympathy of many who were unemployed as a result of the Clinton recession, the 9/11 attacks, the dot com crash and the corporate scandals.

We said: "Expert economists tell us that jobs are the LAST thing to recover from a recession. Give it time."

The latest news astounded even the analysts. Jobs are coming back big time.

You said "But these are all low-pay jobs. Flipping hamburgers. Is that what Americans want?"

You digest only the news you WANT to hear. A piece on NBC Nightly News (Thursday night?) talked about the encouraging outlook in Silicone Valley. Office space that was VACANT after the dot com crash is now filling up. Guess what? People are being hired and NOT for flipping hamburgers. And unlike what happened during the false economic bubble that we had under Clinton, companies are being built with business plans that make sense.

What happens when all your doom-and-gloom theories are proven wrong?? Where do you run to next?

[Justlisten2]

I guess this is the internet equivalent of saying "I know you are, but what am I?"

That is correct.

I also guess that it means that you agree with every one of my rebuttals to your points. Either that, or you don't want to agree but you've run out of ammo and find your position defenseless.

This is incorrect, just bored. Every dog eventually tires of chasing his tail, don't you?

My dad used to say "son, don't try to teach a pig to sing.....it only wastes your time, and annoys the pig". Words to live by.

I kind of figured you're a Dubya fan, and I'm not. I won't change you anymore than you can change me. BTW, if it helps you sleep at night, Clinton wasn't a champion of mine either. I did admire him getting a piece of tail in the white house, but I didn't admire his part in the NAFTA agreement. If you ask me, he was just a republican in democrat clothing.

I won't bother with the rest of your reply, because, quite frankly it bores me. I spend too much time talking audio on other real websites like AudiogoN and AA. I just stop in the Off Topic Forum (known as Republican National Headquarters) for sh!ts and giggles. You boys do get your panties in a bunch easily. Time to go listen to music.

Pick this apart

[jeskibuff]

Pick this apart

I think I will. Thanks for the invite! That's being a good sport!

My dad used to say "son, don't try to teach a pig to sing.....it only wastes your time, and annoys the pig".

So THAT'S what caused your brother to give up on you and gave you such a sour disposition?? How sad!!

I kind of figured you're a Dubya fan, and I'm not. I won't change you anymore than you can change me.

That's not my mission here...to get people to be Bush lovers. The idea is to talk about things that affect us all, to make smarter voters out of us, so that we elect GOOD leaders to office for our OWN benefit!

I won't bother with the rest of your reply, because, quite frankly it bores me.

Oh really?? When I run that statement through my BS-2000 detector, it says it translates to: "I've run out of ammunition and I've got no good reply, so I'd better cut and run!"

[Justlisten2]

I think I will. Thanks for the invite! That's being a good sport!
So THAT'S what caused your brother to give up on you and gave you such a sour disposition?? How sad!!

Good one, hahaha

Oh really?? When I run that statement through my BS-2000 detector, it says it translates to: "I've run out of ammunition and I've got no good reply, so I'd better cut and run!"

Time to get that puppy calibrated, maybe get it updated to a BS-2004, because your posts are so long, I honestly don't read them all. Call it ADD or boredom, or just plain lack of interest/time. Like I say, I don't care to waste much time on this site, there are more interesting things for me on other sites. Love to chat, but I gotta run to AudiogoN before I head to work. TTFN.

[jeskibuff]

Time to get that puppy calibrated, maybe get it updated to a BS-2004

To my knowledge, such a version doesn't exist, nor is one planned for the market. I was tempted at one time to upgrade to the BS-Millenium Edition and later to BS-XP, but I found that the newer versions didn't offer much improvement over what I've got. Actually, they tend to drain the batteries quicker. Mine does an EXCELLENT job of detecting BS, so what more could you ask for?

your posts are so long, I honestly don't read them all. Call it ADD or boredom, or just plain lack of interest/time.

Mind if I call it ADD?? Honestly, if you believe in something strongly (as you apparently do), I would think that you'd take the time to read something that has been thoughtfully custom-tailored to counter those beliefs. It's just too lazy NOT to. Little by little, I've been plodding through the Talkorigins site which counters my belief system about evolution. It's voluminous and loaded with scientist-speak so is not an easy read, especially for someone who is not studied in biology, etc. It'll take a while, but my opinion is that if you feel your belief system is strong, you need to put it to the challenge...a trial by fire, so to speak!

[Justlisten2]

To my knowledge, such a version doesn't exist, nor is one planned for the market. I was tempted at one time to upgrade to the BS-Millenium Edition and later to BS-XP, but I found that the newer versions didn't offer much improvement over what I've got. Actually, they tend to drain the batteries quicker. Mine does an EXCELLENT job of detecting BS, so what more could you ask for?

hehe, good one.

Mind if I call it ADD?? Honestly, if you believe in something strongly (as you apparently do), I would think that you'd take the time to read something that has been thoughtfully custom-tailored to counter those beliefs. It's just too lazy NOT to. Little by little, I've been plodding through the Talkorigins site which counters my belief system about evolution. It's voluminous and loaded with scientist-speak so is not an easy read, especially for someone who is not studied in biology, etc. It'll take a while, but my opinion is that if you feel your belief system is strong, you need to put it to the challenge...a trial by fire, so to speak!

ADD is fine. I just call it lack of time. I really don't spend much time here, and it's already more than I care to. You're very lucky to have the time to persue interests. I try to spend my free time in the sweet spot, and I can't find enough time for that. Maybe when I get rid of these kids I'll have more time for cyber-chat.

[D-DAY]

jeskibuff YOU ARE A TRUE VISIONARY SIR! You seem to be one of the few people on this board that actually thinks for themselves and doesn't hate PRESIDENT BUSH because some crappy musician says you should. You are the man.