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  1. #1
    M.P.S.E /AES/SMPTE member Sir Terrence the Terrible's Avatar
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    Some feedback and opinions

    Okay, I have never liked tatoo's and I am pretty vocal about it. This is just my opinion, but I think they cheapen the look of people, especially women. It seems that nobody can stop at one, so they end up looking like a walking canvas.

    I have been dating the same woman for about 5 years. She knows very profoundly how I feel about tatoo's as we have discussed it more times than I have used the bathroom in a week.(and that is alot). Its a deal breaker for me and she knows this. Yesterday she comes over and tells me she has a surprise.(I had one for her as well). She opens her blouse and there is a small tatoo. She lifts her long skirt, and there is another. I didn't blow up, I didn't cuss, and I didn't argue with her or chastize her for them. I simply said that I am not attracted to her anymore, and she is just like all other women who have tat's to me, cheap. I told her I do not want to see them(which means we cannot sleep together), but she has a right to do anything to her body that she wants to, and I have a right to kick her to the curb if I didn't like it. I realize that I cannot control what she does to her body, but she knew the consequences, and how I would respond. I didn't ask her why she did this when she knew I didn't like it. She has that right. She asked me why I was so angry, I told her that if I have to tell her(again) then she is just not the right woman for me.

    Needless to say we parted ways, and the funny thing is, I don't feel bad about it. I loved her very much, but to do something I so blatantly hated, and then try to sell it as a prize to me was insulting, disgusting, and just plain wrong.

    I do not have many things that bother me, but tatoos bother me, and I can not and do not want to get "over" it. What do you folks think?
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  2. #2
    Super Moderator Site Moderator JohnMichael's Avatar
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    I do not understand her motivation. Yes it is her body but I would choose the love of a good man over a tattoo. My first thought from my dysfuctional self is she trying to sabotage the relationship?

    You certainly do not have to learn to love tattoos and you made yourself perfectly clear. Had you not shared your dislike and she was unaware then it would be on you. We all have our deal breakers. Wishing you luck and happiness in your next relationship.
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  3. #3
    Musicaholic Forums Moderator ForeverAutumn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnMichael
    I would choose the love of a good man over a tattoo.
    What you say JM goes both ways. Sir TTT should be able to choose the love of a good woman over a tattoo. Tattoos are just cosmetic, like dying your hair or wearing makeup (albeit more permanent). It's whats inside that is most important. If the two of you could part ways so easily over something so trivial, I would say that the relationship was never meant to be in the first place.

    The fact that she went ahead with her tats knowing how you would feel about them and that you don't feel bad about the breakup, sounds to me like you were both looking for a way out...possibly subconsciously, but still looking.

  4. #4
    Suspended Smokey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ForeverAutumn
    It's whats inside that is most important. If the two of you could part ways so easily over something so trivial, I would say that the relationship was never meant to be in the first place.
    I agree with you there. If it was true love, this trivial things will be overlooked. As the old saying goes, "Love conquer all, even fat."*

    *quote from Sanford&Son

  5. #5
    Forum Regular audio amateur's Avatar
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    I agree that she definitely shouldn't have done that, especially in the way she did. But before you do anything too harsh, such as calling it a day (you have been with her 5 years..), you should still talk to her about it. But maybe being harsh will get her to think a little and perhaps (well hopefully surely) make her regret her move. From there, see how she reacts.
    Good luck

  6. #6
    Shostakovich fan Feanor's Avatar
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    I understand, I think

    Quote Originally Posted by Sir Terrence the Terrible
    Okay, I have never liked tatoo's and I am pretty vocal about it. This is just my opinion, but I think they cheapen the look of people, especially women. It seems that nobody can stop at one, so they end up looking like a walking canvas.
    ..
    First off, I don't see the point of engraving graffiti on one's body. Sure, tattoos can be art but most aren't. And there are plenty of other places for art so the "art" argument neither justifies nor explains the current tattoo craze.

    Secondly, it is in my nature to despise illogicality especially when it is self-destructive. Tattooing falls into the illogically self-destructive category for me -- I suppose lots of people would disagree.

    Sir T., you girl friend's getting those tattoos was a slap in the face to you given your expressed feelings. While your breaking the relationship seems extreme to many people, I understand that some actions of others, though superficially minor, can trigger profound revulsion.

    Nevertheless I wouldn't exclude a reconciliation. Of course, that will require a concession on your part. With all respect, Sir Terrace, you don't seem like a person who concedes easily. Am I wrong?

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    I am puzzled why a girl would do that knowing you wouldn't like it. Maybe that is something you should have asked before acting abruptly. It could have been her way out, it could have been a test to see how strong the relationship was, it would be interesting to know her reaction when you broke it off. FA's post pretty much mirrors what my first thoughts were. After five years in a supposed relationship to break up over a tattoo is shallow but is no surprise based on how you act here. For her to do that knowing your views and for you to break it off so cavalier plainly shows there was no real relationship in the first place and you two were just satisfying one another's needs. You say you loved her but you don't know what love is. This post may sound harsh but I acknowledge you are just another example of how the world is today. People throw away relationships and marriages that have lasted longer than five years over things just as crazy. I don't want to trivialize her actions either, if tats are your pet peev then she clearly had a motive behind her action. The result may be the same but the situation definitely warranted more discussion. I don't understand the tattooing thing myself either. I notice she didn't have them in a place where they could be seen without removing her clothing, maybe it gave her a feeling of something she was lacking emotionally. At any rate you will never know unless you ask, why.

  8. #8
    Musicaholic Forums Moderator ForeverAutumn's Avatar
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    After some time to think about this situation I have a few more comments (I should probably just mind my own business, but you asked).

    If you really love this woman, you owe it to yourself to ask her why she got these tattoos. I have friends with tattoos and they are all very emotionally attached to them.

    One friend is passionate about parrots. She currently has six of them. Two that she purchased and four that she has rescued. She has two parrot tattoos on her back. The tattoos are very personal to her. She is a professional and the tattoos are placed on her body so that they are not visible unless she wants them to be.

    Another friend recovered from a serious illness and then proceeded to lose 50 pounds, get into shape and run a marathon. After her first marathon she had her calf tattood with a stick figure of a woman running. It has motivated her to run 7 more marathons (the last one only a few weeks ago). She is in her 50's.

    I don't have any tattoos myself. But I have been considering getting a small treble clef tattoo to represent my love for music. I also once despised tattoos and couldn't understand why people got them. But seeing the emotional ties and satisfaction that my friends get from their tattoos has made me reconsider my opinion. My husband is opposed. But if it's something that is important to me, he will support my decision. This is the difference between the love that my husband and I share and the relationship that you have with your (ex)girlfriend. We support and respect each other even when we don't agree with each other.

    If you really love her, have an open mind. Talk to her. She may have very compelling reasons to have wanted the tattoos and knowing how you felt about them was afraid to tell you in advance. It's much easier sometimes to beg forgiveness than to ask permission (and, frankly, a grown woman doesn't need anyone's permission...including yours).

    It is so hard to find a good partner, don't be so quick to throw it away.

  9. #9
    I put the Gee in Gear.... thekid's Avatar
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    I myself do not understand the mind-set of having tattoo's and they seem to be fairly prevalent in my area. I am not a psycholigist by any stretch of the imagination but it seems to me to be another form of people trying to say "hey look at me" in world where individualism is often lost in the crowd. But I digress.........To the specifics of the thread....

    I know you say you discussed this many times but in my 21 years of marriage conversations/topicsthat I thought were clear/important in my mind were casual banter in my wife's way of thinking. I know it sounds like the Men from Mars/Women from Venus pablum but there is some truth that our minds are wired a bit differently.

    I think you owe it to each other after 5 years to have to talk about what she was thinking when she got this done. Her answer (as painful as it might be for you) will probably let you know if your decision was the right one. Without true closure I think that after time has passed you might get that "what if" question running through your mind.

    If either one of you does not want to have that conversation, then it would seem to me that person has already moved on and things were already heading south in the relationship before the tatoo.
    Last edited by thekid; 06-01-2008 at 09:00 AM.

  10. #10
    Class of the clown GMichael's Avatar
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    I would never get a tatoo. They just are not for me. I know many people with them and have no problem with what others do, but I doubt that I would ever want to be involved with a girl with more than a cute teddy bear on her ankle.
    Only you know how much it means to you and if you can live with it. If she knew how strongly you felt, then it doesn't make sense that she would go ahead with getting two. Maybe she thought that you'd grow to like them.
    If my wife were to come home with one, I'd still keep her. But I also know her well enough to know that that will never happen. She hates them.
    So, what means more to you? The girl? The tat? Or the slap in the face that this seems to be? If you really care about her, then you owe it to yourself to talk over her motives. In the end, it's going to have to be your call. Telling you how we feel about it is like us telling you that you should like electrostats over Audio Notes. It's a very personal thing.
    Talk it over with her. Take your time. Try not to make a decision before you've had a chance to calm down and think about it. Then, do what's right for you.
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  11. #11
    Man of the People Forums Moderator bobsticks's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thekid
    I know you say you discussed this many times but in my 21 years of marriage conversations/topicsthat I thought were clear/important in my mind were casual banter in my wife's way of thinking. I know it sounds like the Men from Mars/Women from Venus pablum but there is some truth that our minds are wired a bit differently.
    It has been my experience that this is true, if only because most of the time we as men soften things in pseudo-political way to avoid having a fight every ten minutes. I would spend some time in solitary reflection to determine if I had truly made your central point evident.

    That said, this could well be a sorta provocative passive-aggressive dealio---"Does he care for me for 'who I am?'"; "Is his love for me greater than his hatred for body art?" As several have pointed out, this may have been a way of provoking and ending to something that was already winding down in one or both of your minds.

    Frankly, you shouldn't be taking advice from someone that changes girlfriends every 6 or 8 months so I'm not gonna offer much, except to say that one doesn't normally devote five years of their life to something that is merely a convenience. She undoubtedly has some pretty special qualities if she shared your life for that length of time. I try to leave all relationships on good terms.
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    T didn't say what the tats were either, she may have put the Blu-ray emblem on, this would have been a clear message. What they were might give us armchair Freuds a bit more of a clue.

  13. #13
    Man of the People Forums Moderator bobsticks's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Peabody
    T didn't say what the tats were either, she may have put the Blu-ray emblem on, this would have been a clear message. What they were might give us armchair Freuds a bit more of a clue.
    ..worse yet, what if she used a big, green Arial Black font and put pixelthis???
    So, I broke into the palace
    With a sponge and a rusty spanner
    She said : "Eh, I know you, and you cannot sing"
    I said : "That's nothing - you should hear me play piano"

  14. #14
    M.P.S.E /AES/SMPTE member Sir Terrence the Terrible's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Peabody
    I am puzzled why a girl would do that knowing you wouldn't like it. Maybe that is something you should have asked before acting abruptly. It could have been her way out, it could have been a test to see how strong the relationship was, it would be interesting to know her reaction when you broke it off. FA's post pretty much mirrors what my first thoughts were. After five years in a supposed relationship to break up over a tattoo is shallow but is no surprise based on how you act here. For her to do that knowing your views and for you to break it off so cavalier plainly shows there was no real relationship in the first place and you two were just satisfying one another's needs. You say you loved her but you don't know what love is. This post may sound harsh but I acknowledge you are just another example of how the world is today. People throw away relationships and marriages that have lasted longer than five years over things just as crazy. I don't want to trivialize her actions either, if tats are your pet peev then she clearly had a motive behind her action. The result may be the same but the situation definitely warranted more discussion. I don't understand the tattooing thing myself either. I notice she didn't have them in a place where they could be seen without removing her clothing, maybe it gave her a feeling of something she was lacking emotionally. At any rate you will never know unless you ask, why.
    Peabody,
    While I appreciated your comments, they smack with discontent. I am sorry that you do not like my approach regarding yourself, but whining, crying, stamping your feet, *****ing, and expecting somebody else to do something you can do yourself is also a BIG deal breaker with me(not to mention totally annoying). I complain, then I do something. I do not wait for somebody else to do it for me, and I don't put myself into a ***** mode without persuing a solution.

    If you think you know me well enough to pass some of the judgements you have, I am here to tell you you don't. It is the height of immaturity not to be able to seperate one argument from another. I guess this is what happens when you make digs that are just not necessary.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sir Terrence the Terrible
    Okay, I have never liked tatoo's and I am pretty vocal about it. This is just my opinion, but I think they cheapen the look of people, especially women. It seems that nobody can stop at one, so they end up looking like a walking canvas.

    I have been dating the same woman for about 5 years. She knows very profoundly how I feel about tatoo's as we have discussed it more times than I have used the bathroom in a week.(and that is alot). Its a deal breaker for me and she knows this. Yesterday she comes over and tells me she has a surprise.(I had one for her as well). She opens her blouse and there is a small tatoo. She lifts her long skirt, and there is another. I didn't blow up, I didn't cuss, and I didn't argue with her or chastize her for them. I simply said that I am not attracted to her anymore, and she is just like all other women who have tat's to me, cheap. I told her I do not want to see them(which means we cannot sleep together), but she has a right to do anything to her body that she wants to, and I have a right to kick her to the curb if I didn't like it. I realize that I cannot control what she does to her body, but she knew the consequences, and how I would respond. I didn't ask her why she did this when she knew I didn't like it. She has that right. She asked me why I was so angry, I told her that if I have to tell her(again) then she is just not the right woman for me.
    It's a shame that happened T.

    Quote Originally Posted by T
    Needless to say we parted ways, and the funny thing is, I don't feel bad about it. I loved her very much, but to do something I so blatantly hated, and then try to sell it as a prize to me was insulting, disgusting, and just plain wrong.
    Not yet you don't.
    Quote Originally Posted by T
    I do not have many things that bother me, but tatoos bother me, and I can not and do not want to get "over" it. What do you folks think?
    What do I think? What does she look like?

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    BTW, nice job trying to burn down Universal Studios. Can't do ANYTHING right can ya?

  17. #17
    M.P.S.E /AES/SMPTE member Sir Terrence the Terrible's Avatar
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    I really appreciate everyone comments. In this day and time, I fully understand why people think a tatoo is a "trivial" matter. I personally do not think ANYTHING brought up over and over not as a background topic, but a loud and forceful foreground topic is not trivial at all. I think when you have heard something over and over, and you decide to ignore what you heard, and dismiss something that was put in your face, then you have to be ready for the consequences.

    I do not have a long laundry list of pet peeves, so people do not have to live in a box to be around me. I am not a tyrant, and if I am proven wrong, I admit it. There are many things I will compromise on(my kids will tell you this) but there is a few things I will not. Tatoo's are one of those things.

    I know some folks here think I do not compromise. To a certain extent, you are right. I do not compromise to untruths(I do not care how insistant the poster is they are right), and I do not compromise on things I have strong conviction on. Everything else is fair game for compromise if the argument is compelling enough.

    5 years is a long time. Anyone who would underestimate the committment that 5 years entails, or the love we shared would be completely mistaken. It was there. But you cannot dismiss that ever person on this planet has a breaking point, a deal breaker, and that cannot be minimalize. Some people are pissed when their significant other overspends, some when the toilet seat is not put down, others cleaning up behind themselves. These are not my issues, mine is just one simple issue, no tatoo's.

    FA, how about the love of a good man over a tatoo? Obviously if she has more emotional attachment to the tatoo than myself, then the move I made was the right one for me. You can't marry a tatoo, and aside from the emotional attachment, it cannot do for her what I can.

    I guess this is a heads up to anyone who is married or in a long term relationship. When your spouse or significant other says thus thing is a deal breaker, do not dismiss it. Outside of removing the tatoo, there can be no reconciliation. This issue has been hammered home far too hard to dismiss as just "trivial". The consequences were discussed(I specifically said DEAL BREAKER), why I don't like them was discussed, and her feelings where discussed as well. Asking why at this point is useless, things cannot be reversed without creating more damage to the skin. Some folks say that I was looking for a way out. You do not spend 5 years with somebody to just look for a way out. That is a waste of both parties time.
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  18. #18
    Class of the clown GMichael's Avatar
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    Sorry for your pain T. Have you talked to your kids about it yet? What is their take?
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  19. #19
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    Dang T! Good thing you already lost your hair ... this boil over of that Puerto Rican blood of yours was bound to singe whatever strands you had left!

    Anyway, who am I to question anyone's aesthetic preferences? I'm one for taking more of a subtle approach. If things aren't at the untenable stage (though they definitely sound like they are), maybe you can find occasion to present her with your own "surprise present"? Of course, this might be a generational thing too.

    I'm not down with tats either. They can accelerate a woman from classy to skanky faster than an F1 racer. But, it also depends on the location and size of the canvas. I've dated women with tats, and after a while I really didn't notice them anymore. Of course, there's a difference between something like a 1" rose tattoo on the shoulder or cleavage or bikini line, versus 4-foot portraits of the grim reaper in full color!

    Maybe it's just me, but I think body piercings are much more of a potential deal breaker. For whatever, the women I've known with tongue piercings just talk funny ...
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  20. #20
    M.P.S.E /AES/SMPTE member Sir Terrence the Terrible's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GMichael
    Sorry for your pain T. Have you talked to your kids about it yet? What is their take?
    G,
    Quite frankly my kids were shocked she did it considering my vile mouth on the issue. My kids do not have piercings or tats, but I never told them they could not do either. This is THEIR generations way of expressing themselves, and there is no way I am going to take that from them. Its their own decision. Funny thing, they hate them worse than I do.

    When my kids found out she got them(she actually told them before she told me) they told her that she had better figure out a way to hide them, because they told her "he ain't going for this at all". Her response to them was(and I quote) "he'll get over it". My son Jerry told her "he'll get over it when you turn black!" (She is spanish). Personally I think she wanted the tats no matter what the consequences were, and that she didn't really care what I desired. So hence, we are not together, and not going to get together again.

    Rich, I really do not feel bad. I cannot wrap my emotions around something that I cannot control. She knew the consequences, she did what she wanted to do, so no hurt here. I cannot marry, or feel bad about somebody who would brush aside my feeling so easily. Especially considering that I jumped to here every whim. When the hometheater system IN MY HOUSE was too loud for her, I turned it down. When she stayed with me, I always lowered the toilet seat after I finished. She didn't do house cleaning, so I hired a maid for my house, and hers as well. Her car breaks down, I pay to get it fixed(we are not married). When she moved, me and my boys moved her. Anything she wanted, she got. So I hope she really loves that tatoo, and I hope that tatoo can jump off her arm and do the things I did for her.

    I do not feel bitter or angry, but I do feel disrespected as I would never do anything she really didn't like. All my boys can say is...NEXT!!!!
    Sir Terrence

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  21. #21
    M.P.S.E /AES/SMPTE member Sir Terrence the Terrible's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Woochifer
    Dang T! Good thing you already lost your hair ... this boil over of that Puerto Rican blood of yours was bound to singe whatever strands you had left!
    You know Wooch, I didn't get mad and I am shocked by that myself. Didn't raise my voice, didn't cuss in a foreign language, didn't even raise my voice. I just said what I had to say. My boys were in disbelief at that.

    Anyway, who am I to question anyone's aesthetic preferences? I'm one for taking more of a subtle approach. If things aren't at the untenable stage (though they definitely sound like they are), maybe you can find occasion to present her with your own "surprise present"? Of course, this might be a generational thing too.
    I did tell her this was the only way to reconciliation. Outside of this, the curtain has closed.

    I'm not down with tats either. They can accelerate a woman from classy to skanky faster than an F1 racer. But, it also depends on the location and size of the canvas. I've dated women with tats, and after a while I really didn't notice them anymore. Of course, there's a difference between something like a 1" rose tattoo on the shoulder or cleavage or bikini line, versus 4-foot portraits of the grim reaper in full color!
    LOL. Her's were not that big, but tatoo stick out to me in such a way that there is no way I can ignore them. They are unsightly to me, and as beautiful as her skin was, there was no way these tats would ever blend in. Its very difficult to ignore something you so profoundly hate.

    Maybe it's just me, but I think body piercings are much more of a potential deal breaker. For whatever, the women I've known with tongue piercings just talk funny ...
    Actually that was number two on the list of deal breakers. There was no number three. I didn't arrive to this decision at the spur of the moment. I told her when we first started dating that I didn't like either tat's or piercings, and that I would never marry a woman that had them. That was based on dating a woman that DID have them, and every time I saw them I was repulsed by them. I always wanted to throw up in tin foil and eat it whenever I saw here tatoo. We didn't last long either, I just couldn't get over the nausea.
    Sir Terrence

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  22. #22
    Class of the clown GMichael's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sir Terrence the Terrible
    I always wanted to throw up in tin foil and eat it
    Now THAT'S an expression I've never heard before. Congrats T. Not too many people can shock me, but this got it done.
    WARNING! - The Surgeon General has determined that, time spent listening to music is not deducted from one's lifespan.

  23. #23
    Big science. Hallelujah. noddin0ff's Avatar
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    hmmm. Before I get going, nobody can peer into another persons relationship and accurately diagnose it. So, take this as, at best, wild speculation.

    I don't think relationships should have preset 'deal breakers'. They're too complex for that. Although, certainly, testing your partners boundaries can tilt a relationship over to failure. The message I get from reading the thread is that there is an undercurrent of 'control' here. Deal breakers are like ultimatums that set up a situation of control of one person over another. I don't think that's something that works in a long term healthy relationship. And, control isn't necessarily an obviously bad thing. You fix her car, you clean her house -- both generous and kind acts. But, these kindnesses cede control of these elements of her life to you, leaving her with less control of her own life. I'm guessing the tats were an expression of her taking control of her life. Perhaps, a very personal part of her life she didn't want to cede control over.

    That you don't miss her suggests the relationship wasn't a long-term two-way give-and-take one from the start. It could still be put back together, perhaps. But you might want to re-examine the nature of the relationship. Permanent relationships work best with equal partners; the trick is to figure out what that means and how to do it.

    My 2 cents worth of speculation. And a heap of respect for being open about it.

  24. #24
    Musicaholic Forums Moderator ForeverAutumn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sir Terrence the Terrible
    FA, how about the love of a good man over a tatoo? Obviously if she has more emotional attachment to the tatoo than myself, then the move I made was the right one for me. You can't marry a tatoo, and aside from the emotional attachment, it cannot do for her what I can.
    I don't dispute what you say. Should she have got the tattoos knowing how you felt? Probably not...it sounds like she knew the risk that she was taking. I don't pretend to know anything about you or your relationship. I was simply trying to point out that there are two sides to every coin (and maybe try to extend a woman's perspective). Your mind was made up before starting this thread. And that's certainly your perogative.

    I hope that you are both able to find happiness in the future whether it's together or apart.

  25. #25
    JSE
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    MIA - Until Rich is back! JSE's Avatar
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    Only you can make the choice you did so nobody can really say you did the right or wrong thing but.....

    Just to play Devil's Advocate,

    Maybe she was testing you? Maybe she she was unsure about your true commitment to her and got the Tattoos as a test. Maybe she felt that if you would let the tattoos come between you guys then you were not worth staying with. So maybe you failed the test in her eyes and she was willing to accept the potential and now real outcome.

    Again, just giving you a different viewpoint. Bottom line is she knew the risk going in and she was willing to take that risk.

    So does GM need to throw a "newly single party"? I bet he already has some nice ladies ready for you.

    JSE

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